The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => Announcements => Topic started by: MonkeyIsland on March 14, 2013, 02:53 PM
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There are some scheme modifications that looks promising. I'm gonna give them a real chance to see if they pass their final test. This modifications are applied to the next Classic league season (32). After that, if there were no damages, we'll be keeping those.
Note that this isn't the final batch, I'll be updating this first post if some changes are suggested in mean time. So please check this topic more frequently until season #32 starts.
Changes in RED are permanent and NOT experimental.
Also these changes are the default settings, meaning upon disagreement these settings must be played. If 2 players like to play the old way, then can.
BnG:
- Infinite Teleport
- Infinite Shotgun
- Activating /ts. (teststuff) It will remove full power shots.
- One girder, no usage restrictions
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-992/
Elite, Team17:
Rope knocking allowed.
Roper:
- 2 worms per team.
- Higher fall damage.
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-993/
Hysteria:
- 5 second SD.
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-987/
TTRR:
- 5 worms per team.
Shopper:
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-488/
WxW:
We'll be trying a weapon-crate-free scheme. like this one (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-628/).
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Roper has changed so drastically, maybe create a new overall rating for it?
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I don't agree with a lot of them :(
In elite and t17 the rope is too powerful this way imo. It's nearly impossible to get a hide where you cant get pwned nemore :( These are default games, you're supposed to kill mostly on foot :(
Roper is kinda confusing with 2 worms. I also dont like the current schemes which forces SD already after 20 mins. Roper is supposed to be played with crates :x In only super long games the SD should be used to finally cut down on HP.
Which brings me to wxw without weaps crates, which makes it SD-roping as well.
And then there's 5 worms TTRR.. almost impossible not to finish now. I know this is nice for the awesome ropers, but there's no chance to beat them nemore now for not so good players, and the PLOP factor is pretty much out of the equation now.
Especially wxw seems like a totally dumb shit game now. Might as well kick it out and replace it with roper, which is IMO a lot more tactical and not just silly wall to wall roping.
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1.elite with knocking is a joke
2. 5 worms on ttrr? Let me guess, some "pro" suggested this after loosing to a newcomer because he couldnt manage to finish a map with 3 attempts?
3. roper with 2 worms.. thanks but no
damn I imagine classic season 42 with 32 worms on ttrr, 16 worms on roper, pistol and prod on wxw, hmm hyst starts with SD on and bng with a list of rules higher then a2b xD
Honestly bng changes seems nice to me, however everything other pushes me out of playing this
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YES YES YES !!!!!!!!!!
For all sceptics - ur crying is unnecessary since this is an experiment, we just will see after this seazon how many ppl will aprouve those changes and how many not ! 8)
i love all changes.
Especially wxw seems like a totally dumb shit game now. Might as well kick it out and replace it with roper, which is IMO a lot more tactical and not just silly wall to wall roping.
HHC mate, belive me i love wxw almost the most and i like this change the most !!!
if u playing wxw on easy maps like some ppl do, u winning only if u get more powerfull crates then ur opponent,
Ano's sheme just eliminating luck in wxw , just like Desetroyah's sheme !!
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MI, TS doesn't remove full power shots, it only makes them harder to achieve, when the power reaches 100% it starts moving back down towards 0, once it reaches 0, it explodes in your face if you don't let go.
I am really looking forward to this, great choices :)
I agree with HHC about T17/Elite, and TTRR he has a good point about it being harder to beat the good players but, I guess if you wanna beat the good players you should focus on TTRR and become as good as them, I don't think this is an excuse, it's your responsibility to get as good as you can at a scheme if you care too much about it, and I think 5 worms is a nice idea.
With Roper, can you elaborate on the specific changes? HP/Crates/Etc, so we don't have to read the scheme and figure it out ourselves.
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Wow, some changes sounds really cool!
TS in BnG (removing some rules would be even better tho), Roper changes.. I hppe someone gonna send in a new shopper scheme because the current one is the most unbalanced scheme in Classic league.
On the other hand, I'm not sure if rope knocking is a good choice, especially in T17.
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u got only one rope in t17, come on ppl !
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Id like to see 4 worms on ttrr, why 5? why not 18? Who suggest this lol
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wow,5 worms in ttrr,now i can finish one maybe,btw claneers must be 10 vs 10?
knock in elite and t17?hmm lets see,sounds interestinng xD
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I'm not sure about 5 sec SD in hysteria, but sounds experimental :) We'll see. For funner games it's better to stay with 10 sec. In tus games players are more skilled, they don't lose their turns accidently, so 5 sec should be fine i think
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Id like to see 4 worms on ttrr, why 5? why not 18? Who suggest this lol
I can live with 4 too. 5 is too much IMO, like I said, it completely removes the aspect of trying-not-to-plop.
@Komo, I think it matters though. It's not in the interest of a league that the best player ALWAYS wins. There should be real competition, close games and all that, and not players totally butchering other players who are merely 1% weaker. If you let both players 10-12 worms in TTRR, then what's the point of a noob (like me ;)) playing vs the top guys nemore? I would just give the other guy a free win and get on with my life lol.
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I guess this topic is not for complaints. 2 months for a good experiment worth a try.
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guys stop to crying about knocking in elite and t17... it's only for 1 season
in season 24 it's all good for u again =)
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Shopper https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-488/
And where is the download link for the new Roper and Hyst scheme?
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@Komo, I think it matters though. It's not in the interest of a league that the best player ALWAYS wins. There should be real competition, close games and all that, and not players totally butchering other players who are merely 1% weaker. If you let both players 10-12 worms in TTRR, then what's the point of a noob (like me ;)) playing vs the top guys nemore? I would just give the other guy a free win and get on with my life lol.
Well, I can see where you are coming from but I feel like it's the players duty to become good at that scheme, therefor I actually feel this change would better represent the better players.
And anyway, I don't wanna win a game cuz my opponent didn't even finish, I ain't a charity case lol.
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Well, in the old days we RR'ed 30 seconds. If you finished in the same turn it was a draw :)
In those days it was much more important to be reliable and NOT FALL. That aspect has been taken out almost completely and will be 100% if you give players 5 or more worms.
So yeah, guess it's what you want RR to be. A speed contest or more of a reliability contest.
I have no probs with going all out on speed roping, but yeh... some people won't be able to stand a chance anymore.
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interesting changes, i might have to start tusing again
i always wanted roper to have 2 worms!
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I am really looking forward to this, great choices :)
I agree with HHC about T17/Elite, and TTRR he has a good point about it being harder to beat the good players but, I guess if you wanna beat the good players you should focus on TTRR and become as good as them, I don't think this is an excuse, it's your responsibility to get as good as you can at a scheme if you care too much about it, and I think 5 worms is a nice idea.
I agree 100%.
I have to congratz MI to do these changes (although there are some of them what I dislike), TUS needed a huge change in schemes. Congratz Big Boss! 8)
About Shopper scheme:
Shopper https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-488/
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With 5 worms in ttrr sir-j/statik/other pros will do challenge's time not to beat ;\.
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this all sounds great... good job monkeyisland taking the first step to fix schemes....
knocking in elite... hmm... ok, lets experiment.
2 worms in roper... what exactly is this fixing?? i like 2 worm in roper, but whats the meaning behind it, other then franz likes 2 worms as well... why dont we try to address the main problem at hand with roper during this experimental season, and thats the cr8 rules...
also, would it be a nice idea to use /ts in hysteria as well?? would be nice when you have to aim all the way up, from a horizontal position, that feature would come in handy.
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Knocking in elite is interesting. On one hand, it might be a lethal weapon since there are only 4 worms to play with and every lost worm matters a lot but on the other you have only 20 seconds to execute your knocking plan so you need to be very accurate and swift. What is to be expected is that tactics are gonna change drastically.
Worth testing, I like it overally, gj!
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Well I do have different question about all of this but first let me give my opinion on an interesting post which is HHC one :).
I don't agree with a lot of them :(
In elite and t17 the rope is too powerful this way imo. It's nearly impossible to get a hide where you cant get pwned nemore :( These are default games, you're supposed to kill mostly on foot :(
Elite has 2 rope and T17 only one. It is very unlikely you'll be able to kill more than one worms with the rope. We could suppose that you'd at least use one rope for a movement rather than a knock. Moreover, in the end the knocking will be used 80% of the time in order to bat/dyna plop. You'll have to be more careful on your hide that's all. In the other hand some people already abuse the no knock rule in order to cheap win a game. I don't see it has a bad thing.
Roper is kinda confusing with 2 worms. I also dont like the current schemes which forces SD already after 20 mins. Roper is supposed to be played with crates :x In only super long games the SD should be used to finally cut down on HP.
This is basically as playing a clanner except you have two worms. It also add some strategy for the piling as we have in clanner.
Also adding an higher fall damage is a good idea. Fall damage should really affect you more than what it is currently doing in my opinion. The backside is that if you fall it'll be really hard to come back into the game.
Which brings me to wxw without weaps crates, which makes it SD-roping as well.
Well on this, I somehow agree with you. If we follow the logic, why changing the wxw like that and not doing the same for shopper then ?
Are we doing that in order to reduce crate luck ? If yes, why shouldn't we do the same with shopper ?
In my opinion, fun=crate, skill=no crate. I am playing for fun and I am not sure that the difference between crate and no crate in term of skills is very important. As said berria on a very easy map it'll for sure but aren't both team supposed to agree on the map ? Doesn't that mean that if you want to avoid cheap easy map player picker you can just refuse to play on their map ? Shouldn't we try to figure out a way to avoid cheap map rather than removing the crate ? Crate are meaningless now which means that you don't have any disadvantage in falling before taking the crate which remove some roping strategies. In this case, if we go for a scheme like that why not put health crate of 20 HP. Won't do much but if you fall before taking your crate +40 HP is not negligible.
And then there's 5 worms TTRR.. almost impossible not to finish now. I know this is nice for the awesome ropers, but there's no chance to beat them nemore now for not so good players, and the PLOP factor is pretty much out of the equation now.
Well, as you HHC my only chance were that my opponent fall too much during its turn. Now with 5 worms it is kinda impossible. At the end you still can say that the best won.. Even if I don't like it because it'll be very hard for me now to compete in TTRR, I must admit that I see TTRR as the roper king scheme where you can really see who has the best roping skills and this change help it so I can't disagree with it :(.
Especially wxw seems like a totally dumb shit game now. Might as well kick it out and replace it with roper, which is IMO a lot more tactical and not just silly wall to wall roping.
I see wxw as a roper/rr scheme it is not the same to rope between walls and on a fabrousse map !
So here are my questions:
1) Could you please give the changes for clanner (as the number of worms for TTRR, roper..) ?
2) If we want changes, why not adding others scheme as aerial which is played by a lot of player nowadays and has proven to be a skilled scheme ?
3) Speaking by adding scheme, there are lot of old scheme (much older than hysteria) that could be added and wouldn't do so much damages like bungerace, wascar, battlerace, fort..
4) The hysteria change 5 sec sd is good but I doubt it is enough. As I said before, since the main problem is piling and that people mainly pile by using jetpack. Shouldn't we just limit the number of jetpack in order to avoid it ?
Overall, I like these changes. Great job !
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Glad to see TuS is taking a progressive approach to the scheme.
HHC, I'm skeptical about your logic regarding 5 worm ttrr. You say it'll help pros because they have more chances to finish with an amazing time, but won't encouraging people to rope faster and take more risks result in more plops and falls? 3 worms ttrr seems to encourage safe roping since you have less turns. All in all, I don't think it makes a difference - the better and faster roper is going to win in a high majority of cases.
Bottom line, for anyone who is worried about 5 worm ttrr - focus on improving roping instead of lobbying for the version of the scheme that best fits your skill level. I'm fine with 1 worm ttrr all the way to 8 worm ttrr. The amount of worms isn't going to change how good you are at maneuvering through a map
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BnG:
- Infinite Teleport (Seems like everyone already does this anyway.)
- Infinite Shotgun (Not everyone does this yet, but still seems common.)
- Activating /ts. (teststuff) It will remove full power shots. (Best change, hope it sticks after a full test season.)
- One girder, no usage restrictions (Girder usage has never been my biggest concern. Maybe even do without girder completely, and consider adding unanchored with 0retreat)
Elite, Team17:
Rope knocking allowed. (I guess it's worth testing for a season to see what it's like and go from there. I'm not sure I have a preference either way until I see results. 'No Rope Knocking' was just a legacy setting from 1999 when the separate Wormnet channels had different knocking rules, and it seems no one has seriously questioned if they were needed until now 14 years later. Again, it's worth testing for a season at least.)
Roper:
- 2 worms per team. (I'm guessing my post (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes/roper-allow-2-worms-option-in-1v1-17742/) was a big influence here, so obviously I like this change for the added balance and strategy.)
- Higher fall damage. (I've never really thought much about Higher fall damage and how it changes things, but I'm willing to see how it tests for 1 season.)
Hysteria:
- 5 second SD. (Probably the least drastic change out of all the schemes. I'm pretty neutral on this. I'd still like to entertain the idea of adding 1 Worm Select for likely interesting end of game scenarios.)
TTRR:
- 5 worms per team. (I was under the impression 3 worms was still perfectly fine for most people. You can count me in that camp. I wouldn't play TTRR less if #ofworms changed, but I've grown fond of the simplicity of 3 worms each: it has a nice balance of pressure to perform under the limitation of not too many worms.)
Shopper:
Awaiting new scheme... (I know Spectre had a passionate opinion about this not too long ago, let me find his thread... Here it is (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes/an-attempt-to-set-a-standard-for-shopper-scheme-this-is-serious-18694/). I defer to any shopper lovers though, as it's probably my least favorite scheme.)
WxW:
We'll be trying a weapon-crate-free scheme. like this one. (Interesting, I'm fairly neutral on this as well. Worth testing for a season at least.)
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Well, wmdb has had its shopper scheme perfected, so much that Kiros basically took the wmdb scheme and gave it a slight edit to make it the fb scheme.
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Elite, Team17:
Rope knocking allowed. (I guess it's worth testing for a season to see what it's like and go from there. I'm not sure I have a preference either way until I see results. 'No Rope Knocking' was just a legacy setting from 1999 when the separate Wormnet channels had different knocking rules, and it seems no one has seriously questioned if they were needed until now 14 years later. Again, it's worth testing for a season at least.)
speaking of that.... "zook first" was adopted from worms2 rope scheme, but there was a reason for it.... it was because there was random placement, there was no tele placement on worms2...
so parachute was disabled (so you could not knock if your worm was placed on top) and zook was in first turn, so there was less chance to get fd.
whats the purpose of zook first in w:a? just gives the first player a big advantage, and adds (even more) factor of luck, due to wind...
maybe we should change roper scheme to all weaps first turn???...
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Ano's sheme just eliminating luck in wxw , just like Desetroyah's sheme !!
Yeh, I'd be willing to work with someone on this new wxw scheme, maybe as a variation on my uploaded one.
Rest of the changes sound interesting but I'm not quite sure about the 5ttrr worms and the elite rope knocking.
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Thumbs up. Step in right direction, even if there will be future modifications, the attitude of actually wanting to experiment is a really big step forward and makes things more interesting.
Whole new array of tactics and gameplay have just become possible. How great it that. :) Can't wait to see how elite's will start to turn out with rope knocking allowed. Ropers also :P
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Awesome idea, good job taking matters into your own hands, this will DRASTICALLY help improve the schemes. I agree with all the changes, even though I'm afraid as hell of rope knocks in elite.
Really, really nice decision, MI.
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speaking of that.... "zook first" was adopted from worms2 rope scheme, but there was a reason for it.... it was because there was random placement, there was no tele placement on worms2...
so parachute was disabled (so you could not knock if your worm was placed on top) and zook was in first turn, so there was less chance to get fd.
whats the purpose of zook first in w:a? just gives the first player a big advantage, and adds (even more) factor of luck, due to wind...
maybe we should change roper scheme to all weaps first turn???...
Indifference maybe? There hasn't been much support to push for this change I think, but on the other hand I'm not sure I've ever really heard anyone defending it to stay in either. Maybe a change is due. It was probably just not high on most people's priority list to fixing roper.
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new shoppa scheme would be nice
bng changes looks good
about rope knocking in t17 and elite, make it ``only if both player agree ``
i dont liked the roper changes. 1 worm is good. And higher damage? Lol sometimes i hit my head to ceiling on roper and get 40 damage. With higher damage i ll be dead in 1 fail xD
about wxw, make it if both agree or create a new "wxw hc" scheme
hysteria changes should be if both agree
Btw maybe not about classic league but i want a change for Free League MI. Can you remove teleport from Big RR scheme?
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Lol sometimes i hit my head to ceiling on roper and get 40 damage. With higher damage i ll be dead in 1 fail xD
You raise a valid point I didn't think of. We'll have to see how games test. If falling and taking huge damage PLUS setting yourself up for more fall damage next turn becomes an instant loss, it could force players to rope even more safe in ropers, meaning crate locations would have a bigger impact
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omg, we don't have classic league anymore...
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You raise a valid point I didn't think of. We'll have to see how games test. If falling and taking huge damage PLUS setting yourself up for more fall damage next turn becomes an instant loss, it could force players to rope even more safe in ropers, meaning crate locations would have a bigger impact
Guess this is true. With higher FD the HP damage done by regular attacks won't increase all that much (2 hp?), while a big fall could do you 80 or even more :x That's game over, no matter how well you played the rest of the game.
I personally think the 2vs2 will prove to be a disappointment. It's really confusing if you play it 1vs1.
Personally I would like to see more HP in singles games (in clanners its 2 worms of 200, in singles just of 200, as in BnG it would be more logical to play singles with 300 energy), and more regular time (25 mins at least).
As mentioned before, I wouldnt mind 4 worms in TTRR, it's imo a good balance. I can see how some people find 3 too few, but 4... it should give players enough room to go all-out, while at the same time maintaining at least some aspect of reliability. 5 worms would abort that part of the scheme imo, which imo isnt a good direction. And as some people have agreed with me above, it doesn't improve the experience of newbies.
I can live with the rest. WxW is silly, but i already consider that scheme dumb as f*. I'd rather not see this scheme around anymore at all, but be replaced with, i dunno, shoppers that are 2 or 3 times the size of what they are now. Or shoppers played in cave with nasty hides. It's a scheme build on weapon use from rope, not on speed roping. That's what TTRR and Ropers already cover (enough).
T17 and Elite rk... alright then, let it be, let's try it.
I kinda like fada's suggestion of adding a new scheme as well, like aerial. But it's hard without kicking out one of the beloved ones :( If both aerial and hyst are in it would be too much of that. Just like it's too much to have roper and health-crate-wxw imo.
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I'm fine with all changes, but dont touch Elite. This scheme is perfect just like it is since years. Never change a running system. But well, just test it but I dont even try to play one single elite tus then.
EAC 2013 will get played with the real scheme only. Knocking wont be allowed and gets punished. I hope no one gets confused when playing tus elite in same period.
But once again, I dont even understand why Elite scheme should get any changes. Elite was never a problem and one of the most accepted schemes ever.
Test around with wxw, shopper, bng, hysteria, roper and t17, but not elite and ttrr. Its my opinion, maybe I'm too oldschool in the case of Elite. ;d
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let t17 and elite as they are =/
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nah knocking in elite is cool lets give it a shot
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Elite, Team17:
Rope knocking allowed.
oh :D
If new season is experimental, maybe change t17 scheme. Use Wooka or HHC scheme?
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Its my opinion, maybe I'm too oldschool in the case of Elite. ;d
The thing is, the scheme really only gets more skilled, I see nothing wrong with that. Scheme has always been good but what's the harm in trying to make it even a better scheme? More tactics, more defense, more offensive skills.
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always if i tough this league cant get more worst.. it does..
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can we have a poll to see what members think about elite / t17 knocking?
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Almost nobody complained when I suggested abolishing the no knocking rule, I don't understand how did it get so controversial in this topic ;D
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can we have a poll to see what members think about elite / t17 knocking?
All polls will happen after that season I guess.
BTW, I think that season shouldn't affect overall rating.
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People who complain the most about the no-knocking rule have probably never played elite without it. It only adds depth to the scheme, and it's not like you're gonna have a chance to knock and pile/kill worms in every game, especially since you have very limited time for the execution . It doesn't happen that often, and it forces you to find better hides.
In perspective 5 worms in a ttrr seem like a lot, 4 each would be perfect for both clanners and singles. The roper one seems to be the most controversial change, I have no idea how it's going to play out, but that's the point of this season.
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im not sure why everyone is here complaining... (i may even be guilty of it, im not going to scroll back to check)
all the rules as of now are final, for 1 season, its all experimental... maybe some things will stick, maybe we will see that it was a horrible idea, but we will NEVER know unless we try.
SPW, i agree that elite was/is good, and had the least amount of complaints to change anything.. but what if rope knocking turns out to be awesome? what if you enjoy it? what if it (which it obviously will) adds much more strategy, and turns out to be much more fun overall.... stop being so close minded...
EVERYONE should stop being close minded... majority of people here think the schemes are all great, and there is no need for change, well thats because your all used to the schemes, and dont want to try new things... majority of you think there should be votes on everything, and some huge deliberation to have minor changes in any scheme, and not just one single person should be able to decide... but maybe you should all keep in mind that when TUS was created, wooka uploaded some schemes he had in his computer, and those were the schemes that were used in TUS league... so why do you all think it was ok to follow the schemes from that one single person??
basically if everyone is open minded, stop complaining, and just give this a try, maybe even offer other suggestion that we can all discuss, and experiment, we can actually find a "perfect" scheme for each game. instead of just talking about change, and nothing ever getting done....
franz, no1 is too much for, or against zook first turn rule... i think a change is due for sure... i mean... whats the rule good for?? i told you all (that didnt know) what the rule was good for on worms2, but it has no use on w:a, it only adds a luck factor to the start of the game... there has been many clanner games i can remember where me and my partner both got shit winds, and the enemy team got good winds, at the end of the first 4 turn in such a situation the enemy has a demanding lead... and for no other reason then luck... that can all easily be avoided with an updated scheme....
****cr8 rules should be addresses as well, hopefully in some upcoming "experimental seasons"****
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I kinda like fada's suggestion of adding a new scheme as well, like aerial. But it's hard without kicking out one of the beloved ones :( If both aerial and hyst are in it would be too much of that. Just like it's too much to have roper and health-crate-wxw imo.
Well, why should we remove hysteria ? Isn't shopper and wxw as close as hysteria and aerial ?
Well, anyways I think I'm living in my fancy world where people can clearly see that bungeerace and all these schemes need a lot of skills and therefore would add competitiveness to the league.
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zipperfou is right. Why we cant add aerial to classic schemes without deleting another classic scheme?
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@2 worms roper:
Seems way more broken to me, as the following player has huge hide advantage. One can hide well, the other has to pile and turns difficulty disproportion becomes absurd. Perhaps we should add another rule to fix this, preventing from piling until at least 1 worm is dead.
Beside that, in my opinion roper is supposed to be focused on roping, not on strategic piling. I'd rather prefer to be not bothered with planning my fall back turn ahead.
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We used to have a problem, that WxW and Roper were too similar to guarantee each being a scheme in classic league.
Now you've gone and made them even more similar to the point where WxW is simply a roper in linear maps, whilst Roper is a WxW in a random map.
You're lucky I don't give two f@#!s or I'd be really harsh with the line of thought followed in this whole process, but that one seemed just too funny not to point out.
You can read this post or just picture jean luc facepalming in space
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Im so disappointed with the rope knocking. SPW and others are right. Elite is the prefect league scheme and nothing was broken. I for one will not be hosting an elite in anything goes so that rope knocking isn't able to work and will host my defaults in PartyTime.
Really disappointing decesions from TuS.
I won't even go into some of the other changes, but shotgun in bng has just given a huge advantage to the already problematic notching epidemic.
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I don't think these changes were made by a group of people, because I understand that some struggle when realizing their own stupidity but that's what the others are for so they can easily point it out. But apparently, this didn't happen.
The horse line of thought followed here (horses are put eye patches that allow them to move only forward and never look back) you've managed to find quick fixes for particular scheme problems but apparently missed the fact they introduce new or worse problems.
Even if you managed to make good fixed for schemes, which you didn't thought you were close to ruining a pair or two it would still all be a big waste of time because the word "experimental" implies that the end user is going to finally have to accept these changes and seeing as what the experts have come up with I don't even want to stop and think what kind of feedback the not so clever ones can come up with.
I can picture MonkeyIsland... "changes, changes, people want changes! I need to make choices!" at this point and faced with the responsibility to tweak a scheme and not fck it all up his pants are already wet... "just change everything and let everyone else decide!".
Bottom line is, every single one of you that was aware of these changes and didn't put the voice on the sky about them before they were made public have proven a severe lack the ability to embark in a coherent thinking process. I'm really curious, who was it that first figured out Elite needed fixing? Or who was it that thought WxW needed to be even more similar to roper? Please give names.
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I glad about wxw, bng.
IMO, TTRR will be still good with 5 worms. Elite and t17 will be hardly than now with RK.
Dont know about hyst.
But roper with 2 worms per team is really shity, imo.
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Roper is already played with 2 worms in clanners and it balances it out nicely. I really don't get the hate there
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How about 8 worms a side for Hysteria while you're at it?
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I for one will not be hosting an elite in anything goes
no offense tom, but what exactly will be changing??? :DDD
you are the most inactive mofo next to ropa, the other major voice of complaint here ;D
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2 worms in roper can be fun, need to try it to see if I really like it or not, but I see here few points that could be disapointing:
- Long games
- Single and clanners ropers are going to be very similar .. I was liking the fact in clanner it's different
- Killing one of your worm will give you big advantage with piles, well it's the same thing in clanner too, but usually you don't want to kill your partner and let him alone without playing. But since it's single you own the both worms, you wouldnt mind much about killing one of them!
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I don't think these changes were made by a group of people, because I understand that some struggle when realizing their own stupidity but that's what the others are for so they can easily point it out. But apparently, this didn't happen.
The horse line of thought followed here (horses are put eye patches that allow them to move only forward and never look back) you've managed to find quick fixes for particular scheme problems but apparently missed the fact they introduce new or worse problems.
Even if you managed to make good fixed for schemes, which you didn't thought you were close to ruining a pair or two it would still all be a big waste of time because the word "experimental" implies that the end user is going to finally have to accept these changes and seeing as what the experts have come up with I don't even want to stop and think what kind of feedback the not so clever ones can come up with.
I can picture MonkeyIsland... "changes, changes, people want changes! I need to make choices!" at this point and faced with the responsibility to tweak a scheme and not fck it all up his pants are already wet... "just change everything and let everyone else decide!".
Bottom line is, every single one of you that was aware of these changes and didn't put the voice on the sky about them before they were made public have proven a severe lack the ability to embark in a coherent thinking process. I'm really curious, who was it that first figured out Elite needed fixing? Or who was it that thought WxW needed to be even more similar to roper? Please give names.
You are officially the youngest old guy I know. Congratulations :) All right, I'll get off your lawn, sheez!
More seriously now. I'm inclined to agree on the WxW scheme, though I'm not much of a fan of WxW in a league to begin with (not because I suck at it - I suck at T17 even more, but I'm fine with that being in the league).
I don't really understand why rope knocking was banned in the first place in elite and T17. I mean, anything goes but OMG NO ROPE KNOCKING! Makes no sense to me if you want them to incorporate as many skills as possible. If you're going with the argument of "that's how it has always been" then with ropers, we should get back to having more than 1 worm (which I guess is what we're doing) and re-adding a dynamite. I also seem to recall they were not played on 2 island maps and without water drop (though I might be wrong about the latter).
And are you really a fan of notchfests in BnG, ropa? /ts kills that option or at least makes it a lot more time consuming.
But if we're changing schemes now anyway, perhaps we should include ShyGuy's suggestion of checking the exact time in timetrials. In most cases, we don't even have to check anyway, so it's only a minority of replays where it happens - which make for more exciting games to watch then anyway.
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I don't think these changes were made by a group of people, because I understand that some struggle when realizing their own stupidity but that's what the others are for so they can easily point it out. But apparently, this didn't happen.
The horse line of thought followed here (horses are put eye patches that allow them to move only forward and never look back) you've managed to find quick fixes for particular scheme problems but apparently missed the fact they introduce new or worse problems.
Even if you managed to make good fixed for schemes, which you didn't thought you were close to ruining a pair or two it would still all be a big waste of time because the word "experimental" implies that the end user is going to finally have to accept these changes and seeing as what the experts have come up with I don't even want to stop and think what kind of feedback the not so clever ones can come up with.
I can picture MonkeyIsland... "changes, changes, people want changes! I need to make choices!" at this point and faced with the responsibility to tweak a scheme and not fck it all up his pants are already wet... "just change everything and let everyone else decide!".
Bottom line is, every single one of you that was aware of these changes and didn't put the voice on the sky about them before they were made public have proven a severe lack the ability to embark in a coherent thinking process. I'm really curious, who was it that first figured out Elite needed fixing? Or who was it that thought WxW needed to be even more similar to roper? Please give names.
You are officially the youngest old guy I know. Congratulations :) All right, I'll get off your lawn, sheez!
More seriously now. I'm inclined to agree on the WxW scheme, though I'm not much of a fan of WxW in a league to begin with (not because I suck at it - I suck at T17 even more, but I'm fine with that being in the league).
I don't really understand why rope knocking was banned in the first place in elite and T17. I mean, anything goes but OMG NO ROPE KNOCKING! Makes no sense to me if you want them to incorporate as many skills as possible. If you're going with the argument of "that's how it has always been" then with ropers, we should get back to having more than 1 worm (which I guess is what we're doing) and re-adding a dynamite. I also seem to recall they were not played on 2 island maps and without water drop (though I might be wrong about the latter).
And are you really a fan of notchfests in BnG, ropa? /ts kills that option or at least makes it a lot more time consuming.
But if we're changing schemes now anyway, perhaps we should include ShyGuy's suggestion of checking the exact time in timetrials. In most cases, we don't even have to check anyway, so it's only a minority of replays where it happens - which make for more exciting games to watch then anyway.
the /ts is good, the shotgun makes it a worse notch fest, don't make me go one by one on all the problems we don't have time nor the stomach for that.
Calling me names and agreeing with me is still agreeing with me. I specifically spoke about fixes that introduce problems and that make no sense either way.
Focus on that if you really have something to say, or if you want to say something. I've said.
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- Killing one of your worm will give you big advantage with piles, well it's the same thing in clanner too, but usually you don't want to kill your partner and let him alone without playing. But since it's single you own the both worms, you wouldnt mind much about killing one of them!
ae simon yea this still makes it different from clanner =)
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Calling me names and agreeing with me is still agreeing with me.
Focus on that if you really have something to say, or if you want to say something. I've said.
You certainly have!
[...]because I understand that some struggle when realizing their own stupidity but that's what the others are for so they can easily point it out.[...]
The horse line of thought followed here (horses are put eye patches that allow them to move only forward and never look back)[...]
I can picture MonkeyIsland... "changes, changes, people want changes! I need to make choices!" at this point and faced with the responsibility to tweak a scheme and not fck it all up his pants are already wet... "just change everything and let everyone else decide!".
Bottom line is, every single one of you that was aware of these changes and didn't put the voice on the sky about them before they were made public have proven a severe lack the ability to embark in a coherent thinking process.
I'd be more inclined to agree with that little statement of yours of you weren't such a colossal hypocrit :P
btw: what do you mean here?
Even if you managed to make good fixed for schemes, which you didn't thought you were close to ruining a pair or two it would still all be a big waste of time because the word "experimental" implies that the end user is going to finally have to accept these changes and seeing as what the experts have come up with I don't even want to stop and think what kind of feedback the not so clever ones can come up with.
If it means what I think it means you're already making 2 baseless assumptions. If you can't read a sentence out loud in one breath, then it's probably too long and will become a mess that no one can understand.
Also:
I specifically spoke about fixes that introduce problems and that make no sense either way.
You mentioned one specific problem in this thread and I addressed that one. The rest is pretty generalised insulting.
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Why do you bother answering darkone ? This guy has been *trolling* around for years and not even playing the game or at least this league. He did nothing except criticizing everything. A good example is as far as I remember him he never plainly admitted he was once wrong. Komo used to get crazy with his 10k word post but he actually did admit sometimes he was wrong but no not ropa :-) Just go [utl=https://www.tus-wa.com/profile/?area=showposts;u=25]there[/url] and watch his post since he is back.
He comes here only to have fun trolling everyone. At first it is frustrating because he clearly isn't one of these people who say "XLOLOL f@#! YA ME GOD YOU SUX" and inside his non stop aggressive post sometimes there actually are good ideas but at the end the result is the same as a basic troller.
Anyways, nothing personal against you ropa. In real life you might be a real nice guy (and I wouldn't be surprised about that) but in this game forum I can't say you behave really nicely.
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I'm not sure about 5 sec SD in hysteria, but sounds experimental :) We'll see. For funner games it's better to stay with 10 sec. In tus games players are more skilled, they don't lose their turns accidently, so 5 sec should be fine i think
I Think this 5 sec thing is horrible, Its going to make it too easy to force sudden death, And i can already tell people are going to agrue and claim as a "Noob" tactic.
The people who complain about Hys are not the ones who play it... Keep 10 sec i say...
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its a shame how ropa behaves....
hes a very smart guy, and we all know this because he goes out of his way each and every post to to display just how well spoken he is... he reminds me of Ryno, or what ever his name was from FirstBlood days... who even ropa, at that time would make fun of, because he talked as if he was in a professional setting...
anyway, if ropa just took his smarts, and knowledge of the game, and applied in a way to help and encourage change for the better... maybe we would get to the point we all want to be, with good schemes that suits the majorities needs...
but all ropa is interested in, is bashing everyone, pissing everyone off, and showing how much of a smart ass he can be.
its really a shame.
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You mentioned one specific problem in this thread and I addressed that one. The rest is pretty generalised insulting.
Because I overestimate your perspective, and because I expect you to already realize the problems with these changes without me having to highlight them one by one (I did highlight the most insane of them all, mind). I was kind of waiting for a justification that outweighs all the problems introduced with these changes. But I'm getting none. There's certainly not one in the OP.
You talk as if rope knocking adds a whole new ground of strategy to Elite, it does. You know where does it borrow that set of moves to build that new set of tactics? From intermediate. You're essentially making two very different schemes play more similar. Tweaking classic? Ruining it. You've gone to save the schemes by focusing on a set of principles but ignoring the whole picture; you're completely ruining the balance. And the insults all come from the shock that you were unaware of it the whole process.
Avirex, I've been pioneer in vocally complaining about some of the changes that were made to schemes in the latter times here in TUS, I'm not taking any credit, but you were saying the same bullshit back then too, so mind want to avoid the rock the second walk.
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[...] I've been pioneer in vocally complaining[...]
Like I said, youngest old man I know. I wouldn't put that on my resume.
I'll just focus on the one specific thing you mentioned because the rest is like a ringing in my ear about how great you are and how awful the rest is.
You talk as if rope knocking adds a whole new ground of strategy to Elite, it does. You know where does it borrow that set of moves to build that new set of tactics? From intermediate. You're essentially making two very different schemes play more similar. Tweaking classic? Ruining it. You've gone to save the schemes by focusing on a set of principles but ignoring the whole picture; you're completely ruining the balance.
So what you're saying is that with rope knocking, we have too much of intermediate in TUS classic league?
- Intermediate isn't even in classic league at the moment.
- With intermediate, you have a lot more time to pile worms at a specific location, especially since roping distances are usually shorter in intermediate.
This is like comparing knocking options in shopper with knocking options in WxW.
More interestingly, if you think borrowing moves from other schemes to improve your elite skills is a bad thing, then we should remove bazooka and grenades, because you're borrowing ideas from BnG. We should remove the superweapon because the supersheep borrows from sheeprace and sheepforts. The bungee clearly is a technique from bungeerace, so scrap that shit. Parachute? Please. That's for T17. Same goes for girders.
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[...] I've been pioneer in vocally complaining[...]
Like I said, youngest old man I know. I wouldn't put that on my resume.
I'll just focus on the one specific thing you mentioned because the rest is like a ringing in my ear about how great you are and how awful the rest is.
You talk as if rope knocking adds a whole new ground of strategy to Elite, it does. You know where does it borrow that set of moves to build that new set of tactics? From intermediate. You're essentially making two very different schemes play more similar. Tweaking classic? Ruining it. You've gone to save the schemes by focusing on a set of principles but ignoring the whole picture; you're completely ruining the balance.
So what you're saying is that with rope knocking, we have too much of intermediate in TUS classic league?
- Intermediate isn't even in classic league at the moment.
- With intermediate, you have a lot more time to pile worms at a specific location, especially since roping distances are usually shorter in intermediate.
This is like comparing knocking options in shopper with knocking options in WxW.
More interestingly, if you think borrowing moves from other schemes to improve your elite skills is a bad thing, then we should remove bazooka and grenades, because you're borrowing ideas from BnG. We should remove the superweapon because the supersheep borrows from sheeprace and sheepforts. The bungee clearly is a technique from bungeerace, so scrap that shit. Parachute? Please. That's for T17. Same goes for girders.
No. What I'm saying is that taking a non broken scheme and making it more similar to another one whilst taking an irrelevant scheme which is already very similar to roper and basically cloning it is stupid. Nevermind making "fixes" that makes those really inclined to notch have an even easier time doing so. Forget about 4 second full power grenades, that was 10 years ago.
The examples in your post only go to show that even to this day, your understanding of schemes in a competitive environment is still extremely limited. There's a major difference between adding or subtracting weapons and changing the gameplay of a scheme. You might want to oversimplify it in your head for you own understanding but please do not insult my intelligence, because what it looks like is that the roping knocking change was just added to compensate for the other changes, as if your objective was from the beginning to change every single scheme, at least a bit, that's wrong design, or design focused in the wrong direction; ultimately you're not fixing anything, you're just offering changes for the sake of it, and then see if it's popular enough to see an increase in activity. Good corporate.
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Dear All-Mighty Ropa,
Would you please be the ultimate hero of this community. Would you be as kind to gather all your knowledge, and wisdom together for the sake of creating the best schemes!! there is not one single person on these forums that have the exact same opinion on how the schemes should be, but with your guru train of thought, you will make the perfect scheme accepted by all!! i just know it!!
you can be the man someday known as the one who saved this game we all know and love so much!! thank you in advanced
Signed, Your Friends at TUS.
i think this is what ropa expects
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i think he doesnt expect anything. he's just a frustrated guy.
(i mean it, i'm not trolling)
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He clearly is, but at some point he has to realise that even if he's completely right, nobody will listen if he wraps it in a bag of shit.
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yeh, good point.
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I was thinking that maybe 5 worms in ttrr is really too much. we ve tried with masta, there is less adrenalina and stress factor... what I l like when I play leagues...
Maybe 4 worms should be better even if I would prefer 3 in any case... but let's see
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He clearly is, but at some point he has to realise that even if he's completely right, nobody will listen if he wraps it in a bag of shit.
Of course you listen. I present criticism in a way Flanders would not approve, you confront me because you don't like the rock & roll I add to my lyrics to finally claim nobody listens because I put emotion into my arguments. Consider the bag of shit a filter and you're being caught in it because apparently you're that easily impressed by a bag of shit.
But you overestimate the power of the bag of shit, whilst the bag of shit stops you from seeing past it right now, in the future, you'll incorporate said bag of shit and call it the new all around league or changes to hysteria 2.0
Sad bit is, you'll probably mess up big time in the whole process whilst trying to please everyone, see the case that occupies us if not.
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I don't know why anyone would say SG helps notchers in BnG because I really don't think it does, 1st off it takes 1 turn to use SG, therefor if they hide evil they will have an extremely limited angle, all the other player has to do is move hide and then they have the advantage.
Notching is exactly the same with or without SG anyway, it isn't harder or easier.
Eager to see why you think it makes notching worse, do share.
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ropa, when's the last time you got things done on WA? Like actual things, projects, league changes, league launches etcetera. I'm not talking about hosting a single tournament or anything, that's easy stuff.
If you have to think real hard for an answer (or more likely, not find an answer at all), I'd say the bag of shit has no power at all.
You can try to polish that turd all you want, it's still a turd.
Call me again when you grow up, ropa.
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i agree with komo.
by bng style is similar to his, finding a good hide is crucial. if both teams find a good hide the best bng'er wins (notcher or not).
it seems easy to understand and keeps the competitivity up, imho.
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ropa, when's the last time you got things done on WA? Like actual things, projects, league changes, league launches etcetera. I'm not talking about hosting a single tournament or anything, that's easy stuff.
If you have to think real hard for an answer (or more likely, not find an answer at all), I'd say the bag of shit has no power at all.
You can try to polish that turd all you want, it's still a turd.
Call me again when you grow up, ropa.
he doesn't even play at all, so i'm wondering why he looses time in arguing with us about TUS. (well no, i'm not wondering about it, i already know).
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Mankind wouldn't evolve if everyone thought that if something ain't broke, there's no need to try and make it better.
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ropa, when's the last time you got things done on WA? Like actual things, projects, league changes, league launches etcetera. I'm not talking about hosting a single tournament or anything, that's easy stuff.
If you have to think real hard for an answer (or more likely, not find an answer at all), I'd say the bag of shit has no power at all.
You can try to polish that turd all you want, it's still a turd.
Call me again when you grow up, ropa.
You draw the line were you see fit, I could ask you something similar: when was the last time you won a clan league or were competing for the singles trophy?
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I really don't get all the bitching that's being done ESPECIALLY since the season hasn't even started.
If the season plays out and it turns out that 100% of these changes were bad decisions, then okay, change them back, but at least test them so we can cite what happened in season 32 when discussing the future of the schemes... it's better than changing nothing and just arguing back and forth.
I think some of the changes are pretty bad at face value, but my excitement that TuS is actually trying different things far outweighs my personal analysis of the scheme changes. Ropa may be right, but it's not the time. Your points will be stronger when you can cite from actual season 32 games.
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I really don't get all the bitching that's being done ESPECIALLY since the season hasn't even started.
If the season plays out and it turns out that 100% of these changes were bad decisions, then okay, change them back, but at least test them so we can cite what happened in season 32 when discussing the future of the schemes... it's better than changing nothing and just arguing back and forth.
I think some of the changes are pretty bad at face value, but my excitement that TuS is actually trying different things far outweighs my personal analysis of the scheme changes. Ropa may be right, but it's not the time. Your points will be stronger when you can cite from actual season 32 games.
Well said man, I totally agree, let's just take it on the chin, really try our best, be mature, and after 32 ends, we can discuss all the pros and cons, and maybe, just MAYBE, we might end up with not just the best website WA has ever had, but the best schemes also !
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I really don't get all the bitching that's being done ESPECIALLY since the season hasn't even started.
If the season plays out and it turns out that 100% of these changes were bad decisions, then okay, change them back, but at least test them so we can cite what happened in season 32 when discussing the future of the schemes... it's better than changing nothing and just arguing back and forth.
I think some of the changes are pretty bad at face value, but my excitement that TuS is actually trying different things far outweighs my personal analysis of the scheme changes. Ropa may be right, but it's not the time. Your points will be stronger when you can cite from actual season 32 games.
Most people are going to vote/decide based on the amount of games they win during the testing period in any particular scheme. The testing is flawed from its conception. I appreciate the principle, but the execution will never succeed.
Of course having a sample would greatly help, but you assume Shy that people are going to give legit feedback. You might, but you're an exception to a pretty generalized rule.
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ropa which changes would you suggest for each scheme?
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I like franz' stuff better: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes/top-scheme-ideas-19765/msg160123/#msg160123 (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes/top-scheme-ideas-19765/msg160123/#msg160123). I think allowing rope knocking in Elite/T17 will change the scheme too much despite only having 1/2 ropes. Saying that, i don't know about the BnG changes, maybe someone who plays BnG much should rather judge these changes.
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ropa which changes would you suggest for each scheme?
that would require me to think and probably discuss things with other people for a reasonable amount of time I don't have or if I do I rather spend it in other things.
But I can give quick advice, changing the scheme is not always the answer to a scheme's problem, sometimes it's the map culture that's stopping the competition ground from being as attractive as it should be and to fix that you need to look elsewhere.
First, by adding a system that enforces the use of official maps only (random or otherwise), a list that can be periodically updated to include more maps as they are made but with very specific filtering to guarantee the map is not actually helping the so called "cheap" strategies.
Secondly, if you want to make the scheme more fair do not do so at the expense of losing more important things. A classic league represents overall skill, and good ropers were already excelling in WxW, now they will have an even easier time transferring, there's no unique skill in WxW. If the staff of this league had the guts to go forward with these changes they shouldn't have an issue with making stronger changes and removing one of the version of roper they have in the all around league (WxW).
Anyway, they have an excellent group of people here with great game knowledge and capability to solve these issues, they're just taking the wrong design routes because they have different principles, or more limited ones.
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ropa is such a busy man, as we can all see
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Secondly, if you want to make the scheme more fair do not do so at the expense of losing more important things. A classic league represents overall skill, and good ropers were already excelling in WxW, now they will have an even easier time transferring, there's no unique skill in WxW. If the staff of this league had the guts to go forward with these changes they shouldn't have an issue with making stronger changes and removing one of the version of roper they have in the all around league (WxW).
I don't know where you get that obvious link from being a good roper to being a good WXW'er, Ropa. The reason I'm questioning this is based on my own experience as a player. I consider myself as a good roper, but I don't consider myself as a good WXW'er. I'm overall the 6th best player in Roper, and the 267th best player in WXW. I have played far less games in WxW and surely it affects the rating to some extent, but by your wording I should have no problem increasing my rating in WXW and I should have won more games then I have lost in the scheme. That is far from the truth!
I'd say that there is an unique skill in WXW, which is scrolling. You don't need to be a good scroller in Roper: games are decided by how effectivly you can grab the crates and attack. The only time that being a good WXW'er comes in handy is when the game goes to sudden death. The speed of your rope is not such a big factor in a regular roper. In WXW, you need speed for all it's worth to have the time to attack, and scrolling the map quickly is decisive. Are you automatically a good roper because you're a good WXW'er? I don't think so. There are many examples of players coming from WWP, who's remarkable good in WXW but who comes too short in toper.
In short, I don't agree that WXW is similar or another version of Roper. I can't see/understand your reasoning behind this Ropa. You have to show a level of skill that differs completely in the two schemes. WXW should be considered as a scheme that increases the overall skill, and in my opinion it should stay in the league. What is your definition of a roper anyway, Ropa?
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Secondly, if you want to make the scheme more fair do not do so at the expense of losing more important things. A classic league represents overall skill, and good ropers were already excelling in WxW, now they will have an even easier time transferring, there's no unique skill in WxW. If the staff of this league had the guts to go forward with these changes they shouldn't have an issue with making stronger changes and removing one of the version of roper they have in the all around league (WxW).
I don't know where you get that obvious link from being a good roper to being a good WXW'er, Ropa. The reason I'm questioning this is based on my own experience as a player. I consider myself as a good roper, but I don't consider myself as a good WXW'er. I'm overall the 6th best player in Roper, and the 267th best player in WXW. I have played far less games in WxW and surely it affects the rating to some extent, but by your wording I should have no problem increasing my rating in WXW and I should have won more games then I have lost in the scheme. That is far from the truth!
I'd say that there is an unique skill in WXW, which is scrolling. You don't need to be a good scroller in Roper: games are decided by how effectivly you can grab the crates and attack. The only time that being a good WXW'er comes in handy is when the game goes to sudden death. The speed of your rope is not such a big factor in a regular roper. In WXW, you need speed for all it's worth to have the time to attack, and scrolling the map quickly is decisive. Are you automatically a good roper because you're a good WXW'er? I don't think so. There are many examples of players coming from WWP, who's remarkable good in WXW but who comes too short in toper.
In short, I don't agree that WXW is similar or another version of Roper. I can't see/understand your reasoning behind this Ropa. You have to show a level of skill that differs completely in the two schemes. WXW should be considered as a scheme that increases the overall skill, and in my opinion it should stay in the league. What is your definition of a roper anyway, Ropa?
So you're saying scrolling through horizontal ceilings is the unique skill WxW has. Let's add WASCAR to the classic league.
Ok.
What if I started making WxW maps that do not look like roperaces for newbies?
Either way you might be an exception to the rule, as the normal amongst great ropers is the ability to scroll (specially in maps where scrolling is piss easy like WxW) and power spike (the much quicker alternative to shadows).
Of course many WWP WxWers struggled with roping at first, but that's because roper has many more unique skills, for one, the ability to rope in manually (in WxW, most movements are automatic and more so assuming many people "map abuse" in this scheme (it's main flaw in competitive scenarios, not the weapons crates, those weren't the problem)), but that doesn't take away the fact that WxW is now roper in custom linear maps in which the crate always fall in the same places (the walls).
Now you can talk about the uniqueness of piling in WxW, well, roper has 2 worms now and last time I checked in WxW clanners if you never missed a turn strategy became irrelevant, yeah... like in roper.
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Scheme idea #32432523:
Bazookas, Grenades & Races.
Imagine a indestructible BnG map. This BnG map has a subterranean complex of passages, these passages have openings to the surface of the map. For 1v1, it has 4 surface exits, 1a, 2a, 1b and 2b. Connecting 1a and 2a there is a battle race underneath the map, same goes for 1b and 2b, the same race, just mirrored.
Turn time is 15 seconds, 13 seconds are needed to complete the battle race at any given time doing a perfect run.
The idea is that every turn the player has to enter the surface entrance more closer to him and get out through the exit to then attempt a shot against his enemy.
Let's add this
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ropa have you been taking e's or something mate? You've lost the plot...
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ropa have you been taking e's or something mate? You've lost the plot...
Komodo unable to grasp analogies or point illustrations? I'll be damned
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You were on drugs when you came up with idea #8475719834759814735 ropa.
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You were on drugs when you came up with idea #8475719834759814735 ropa.
Still completely lost when it comes to understanding I see.
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And you're still on drugs lol
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ropa has all this time to keep coming back and fourth to forums, bickering with anyone that will respond to him, which is getting him nowhere...
hes a smart guy, you would think he would use his time more constructively, get on W:A and starting testing his new scheme inventions...
now i know making a post on tus, takes far less time then testing a scheme... but ropa, if each time you get the urge to come troll tus, you can just spend that 5-10 minutes testing a scheme, surely by the end of the month you have something valuable enough that any wormer would pay to get their hands on.
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5-10 minutes
You overestimate my involvement.
The same way I overestimate your intelligence, the scheme is satire, it's just an example to help your heads comprehend a concept. Obviously you've bypassed my intentions and are now fond discussing irrelevancies. Now, I'm not entitled to give others advice on how to spend their time but.
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ropa, at the end of the day, you still bleed like the rest of us. Remember you could still die at any given moment, so stop being a smug c@#! and try and help, or f@#! off.
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5-10 minutes
You overestimate my involvement.
The same way I overestimate your intelligence, the scheme is satire, it's just an example to help your heads comprehend a concept. Obviously you've bypassed my intentions and are now fond discussing irrelevancies. Now, I'm not entitled to give others advice on how to spend their time but.
lol ropa, i was not talking about your little gimik scheme you posted a couple threads back, i know that was a joke.. im talking in general, get ur ass off these forums posting in circles, and spend that time creating this perfect scheme that you promise your master mind could produce, but yet.. you show nothing but words... that go no where..
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This is absolutely ridiculous, disappointing, stupid. These changes bring no advantage whatsoever, only create confusion for people not keeping up with these forums. 5 worms in a TTRR, who thought of this? Why? It has always been 3 worms, why would you change that?
Also, the ropeknocking is unbelieveable in Elite and Team17. Creates an image like whoever made these changes happen never played this game before.
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Yeah Ray, some of the best players of those schemes think it's a good idea, for absolutely no reason, wait, they've never played the scheme before :D Silly me !
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I said it creates an image like that. I know who made these changes. I know how much they played. Stop being so quibbling.
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Yeah I know, but on the other hand, I wish more people took the time and paid attention to stuff that happens around here, meaning this discussion didn't happen overnight, it's been an ongoing discussion for like a year, probably more, including many many players suggesting change.
At least if after we've tried it, we can all vote against it and it will be changed back after 1 Season.
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Yeah I know, but on the other hand, I wish more people took the time and paid attention to stuff that happens around here, meaning this discussion didn't happen overnight, it's been an ongoing discussion for like a year, probably more, including many many players suggesting change.
At least if after we've tried it, we can all vote against it and it will be changed back after 1 Season.
If you know all this first hand then it only makes sense it came out like this.
It's like if every famous painter drew a section of a painting, the end result cannot not be anus.
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It's like if every famous painter drew a section of a painting, the end result cannot not be anus.
Yeah but then again, how many times do you ask someone if they like a type of food or drink, they say no, you ask if they have even tried it, they say no...
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It's like if every famous painter drew a section of a painting, the end result cannot not be anus.
Yeah but then again, how many times do you ask someone if they like a type of food or drink, they say no, you ask if they have even tried it, they say no...
good point..
it was so very frustrating when i was promoting w2roper, there were so many people voicing opinions that never even tried the scheme... majority of people voted for or against it when we had the poll, never even played it
even to this day when i host a w2roper game, there are people that have never tried the scheme...
i have not ran into anyone that has not enjoyed it, after giving it a try though..
i know the scheme still needs adjustment, but i think thats a good scheme to base off of, and try to improve then our current rope scheme... the biggest problem in the roper scheme is the cr8s, and all we have dont to improve it is add 2 worms in singles.... thats very disappointing
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What about destructible maps?
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im open to anyone trying to make a better scheme for roper.
anything can be an improvement to what we have now.
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How about changing the hot seat time to 10 or 15 seconds? Both shopper and WxW get 15, I don't see why there are only 5 seconds for thinking in roper. This will get particularly important when we get to play with two worms per team and there will be more strategy involved.
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I always host ropers with 15s hot seat time, no1 ever complained ;D
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good 2 know time for some clanner complaints ;)
well on the topic i am with bar, but maybe someone knows more why the hot seat time is set to 5 seconds.
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ehh.. i dunno, i have a bad habit of not using my hotseat time in roper... i just look where the cr8 is and start my turn...
i guess i should use it, any hotseat time is fine by me.. i dont think it really matters, it should be up to the host to decide what he wants, and i dont think its really needed to inform people prior to starting... its not like it effects the actually game play in anyway, except in hyst, i spose.
i am not impressed with 2 worms in roper, i dont think it adds much strategy..... cr8 rules honestly kill any strategy that could be in roper..... with the cr8 rules its just so repetitive, get cr8, attack, pile, get cr8, attack, pile :X
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Yeah but then again, how many times do you ask someone if they like a type of food or drink, they say no, you ask if they have even tried it, they say no...
You should try jumping off a bridge sometime, you'll never know if you enjoy a rope-less dive into a set of spikes pointing directly into your backbone until you try.
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Trying out food you won't know the outcome until you try, diving into the depths without a rope and spikes on the floor is certain death and thus know the outcome.
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Trying out food you won't know the outcome until you try, diving into the depths without a rope and spikes on the floor is certain death and thus know the outcome.
I know the outcome of playing this WxW scheme.
The outcome is roping.
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Yeah but then again, how many times do you ask someone if they like a type of food or drink, they say no, you ask if they have even tried it, they say no...
You should try jumping off a bridge sometime, you'll never know if you enjoy a rope-less dive into a set of spikes pointing directly into your backbone until you try.
LMAO ! I love how dumb ropa actually is :D:D
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Trying out food you won't know the outcome until you try, diving into the depths without a rope and spikes on the floor is certain death and thus know the outcome.
I know the outcome of playing this WxW scheme.
The outcome is roping.
You are right there, but that's like saying new food will make you feel repleted. It's obvious that WxW is about roping but the "taste" can be different.
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I ll remind you all then we have allready new seazon which is goin this way:
BnG:
- Infinite Teleport
- Infinite Shotgun
- Activating /ts. (teststuff) It will remove full power shots.
- One girder, no usage restrictions
Elite, Team17:
Rope knocking allowed.
Roper:
- 2 worms per team.
- Higher fall damage.
Hysteria:
- 5 second SD.
TTRR:
- 5 worms per team.
Shopper:
Awaiting new scheme...
WxW:
weapon-crate-free scheme. Deset or Ano scheme.
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Pack of schemes in the studio please. ::)
Many players who play shopper are frustrate
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Disappointing.
I'm outta here!
PS: some people here should get out of their caves...
(http://mu.ranter.net/wp-content/uploads/troll.jpg)
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I dont understand nothing, can ppls play old schemes? Where is new schemes ? RK in TEL allowed too ? TRL still with old schemes ? >:( >:( >:( >:(
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I dont understand nothing, can ppls play old schemes? Where is new schemes ? RK in TEL allowed too ? TRL still with old schemes ? >:( >:( >:( >:(
Yes, by mutual agreement. If any of the players disagrees, games have to be played by the new rules.
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Yes, by mutual agreement. If any of the players disagrees, games have to be played by the new rules.
So, for trl and tel the same rules. Thanks. And what scheme using for wxw ?
I found - https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-628/
xD
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Rogi, Classic league goes experimental, not TRL.
Use Professor's scheme for shopper. Updated first post.
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Where's new Roper scheme? Or, do we select as high fall damage as we want?
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- Activating /ts. (teststuff) It will remove full power shots.
/ts does NOT remove full power shots, it just makes the power reach 100% then fall back down again, if you hold fire until the power goes all the way to 0% again, it will blow in your face.
I repeat, it does NOT remove full power shots.
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But although, it's just makes harder to achive full power shots ::)
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True, but only as hard as 3s nades, 5s LG etc, which tbh, isn't really hard :D
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is there already a roper scheme?
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This one (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-468/), maybe?
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What about other schemes, hyst in example ???
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What about other schemes, hyst in example ???
I used SchemeEddy2 (http://worms2d.info/Schemeeddy) to put it from 10 secs SD to 5 secs SD. Earlier Water Rise is much better. I think it could even be 3 secs for people who don't like Hysteria or just prefer faster games with less darksiding.
I just created it with 5 secs for SD: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-987/
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u could just hold shift and click on timer 3 times :P
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where can I find this season 32 roper scheme with higher falldamage
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https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-993/
(updated first post as well)
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did i miss the point where you announced we play without sd as well?
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Sorry was a mistake by me, fixed.
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Thanks for the schemes.
When does the old school schemes experimental season comes?
Like w2roper, wwp t17, sheep bng lol
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and rr with 30 secs =P
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hilarious, I love this league so much.
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and the league loves you back.
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(http://i799.photobucket.com/albums/yy273/komodziboi/TuSxLovesDevilage_zps885bba0b.png)
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lmao hah!
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Haah, love coming from a reading failure, quite original... ::)
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Haah, love coming from a reading failure, quite original... ::)
shopper and wxw is good for me, better than the original
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What will be schemes in the 33 season?
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so, will be ShopperCWC the new shopper scheme in TUS?
I guess we could fix the only issue removing zooka infinite because the scheme already has the pneumatic drill.
Hope You guys enjoyed so much :-*
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not saying wookas scheme is good, it really has its flaws. but ShopperCWC is damm boring. you could just play with inf dynas,sheeps,birds and it would be exactly the same (unless you dont pick up some petrols lol).
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indeed, only dynas and sheeps in that scheme, I prefer the classic one.
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much better than fireballs and flames xD
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seems like u just removed those two and added grannys sheep launcher sheeps and dynas to the scheme a random shotgun and nothing else.