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April 18, 2024, 01:46 PM

Poll

Do you support the new Free League idea?

Yes
0 (0%)
No
3 (100%)
Maybe
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 3

Author Topic: New Free League  (Read 4775 times)

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Online Triad

Re: New Free League
« Reply #15 on: February 03, 2017, 06:00 PM »
Triad, I like that you're showing interest for changing whole league and as a player appreciating it. But let's be honest - will you even play TFL actively? In last 10 seasons (900 days!?) you played 50-60 games.
I will start playing actively on a new TFL. The reason why I suggest changes is because I want a league where there's actually competition. Currently TFL is almost like a server to find good players to play non-Classic funners. And that's why eventually I stopped playing TFL actively.

Edit 1: just realized between 2014-2016 I was preparing for University and I was generally inactive.

Do not think I want all schemes to suit my needs! Probably biggest noob and hater of Drown Syndrome, but want it to be part of TFL, cause it's one of the most skill based schemes that W:A is offering atm.
Yes I understand. I don't know how we can introduce new schemes to TFL. Maybe something like if x scheme gets played lower than certain amount, MI could open a poll like picking TRL scheme polls so people can decide new scheme.

We all like to give opinion on every subject that's been going on at forums and it's positive thing, but wouldn't be right to pay more attention on guys that are actually keeping it alive all these seasons? Where's Hurz, Husk, Walrus, Snipe..? Waiting for your thoughts.
Only those people can force changes anyway. I don't think MI will care if someone who never actively played TRL says something.

Vote no to kaos? Wtf, it's one of the popular free league schemes
Kaos probably will stay. I don't see anyone opposing beside HHC and Komo, and don't recall them being active on TFL.

Edit 2:
If you make playoffs best of 7, you may need to play a PO series in 2 sessions because some of the schemes are Bo3.
Unlikely. Abnormal and Darts for example usually played Bo3 but each round of it takes 5-7 mins. Racing schemes are fast too if you won't pick an extra hard map.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 06:15 PM by Triad »



Offline TheKomodo

Re: New Free League
« Reply #16 on: February 03, 2017, 06:21 PM »
Vote no to kaos? Wtf, it's one of the popular free league schemes

Popularity is irrelevant, for why voted no at least.

I should say also, I think Kaos looks cool, I enjoy watching it, but tbh it's not the kind of scheme I enjoy playing for Leagues, I understand there is a lot of skill to it, but the whole 'your actions depend on your crates/weapons you get' thing ruin it for me, getting extremely lucky based on getting the right weapons at the right time, that completely ruins a strategic scheme for me, while i'll admit it's incredibly fun :D

It's different to shopper because it's just 1 shot per turn and in Kaos 5 weapons in a row at the right time can be devastating to another 5 weapons in a row that aren't so useful, unlike shopper/wxw where most turns are so close to damage done, worm moved.

@Sensei - If I had time to play 1v1 League, I would, I have work, music & learning programming, I don't have time to become addicted to 1v1 League, sorry.

I did however contribute to activity by creating a new clan with some players who weren't playing Clanners before, and trying to recruit more members to increase this.

(It wasn't just for singles, you know...)

Offline avirex

Re: New Free League
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2017, 07:13 PM »
For a guy with no time, you sure make time to post in every single thread... 

It's like your the guy who always has to find a reason to dispute things, no matter how small the reasoning is..  "I vote no, because you should not need to download any programs to enhance the game to play them" and no matter how little you are even involved in the situations.

Komo, you need to make a community just for debating... get your own forums, and just open random topics for intense debate...  your first topic can be a debate about gun control...

Call your community "debate team".. hmm nvm, dt is taken.. OK, how about "tdw" the debating worms!

Offline TheKomodo

Re: New Free League
« Reply #18 on: February 03, 2017, 07:30 PM »
There is a difference taking couple minutes out to post between doing things on my phone/laptop.

And spending 8+ hours at a time playing League matches.

Offline piki1802

Re: New Free League
« Reply #19 on: February 03, 2017, 08:39 PM »
Always loved TFL because of the variety it offers, but yah not everybody is like me  :-[

You can do what you want with the league, change it anyway you like, but it will never really be active /as youd want it to be. Maybe youd succeed in creating some sort of activity boost, but everybody tends to play classic neway. Can't blame them.

Just accept that people will play this for fun and let it the way it is.

(Personally, with a reset it'd be interesting to start playing again, but that would do much more harm than good neway)
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 08:42 PM by piki1802 »

Offline TheKomodo

Re: New Free League
« Reply #20 on: February 03, 2017, 09:13 PM »
Always loved TFL because of the variety it offers, but yah not everybody is like me  :-[

Agreed, that and it takes more skills than Classic overall.

For example, I enjoy watching every single scheme TFL has to offer, I really enjoyed watching walrus, M3ntal, Xan and others playing 1v1v1v1v1v1 BR thing when I was at M3ntals house last year, I found myself going "I know how to do that!" and "Wish I could try that at this moment" etc, but time on Earth is limited, we all gonna die.

I only have about another 30-60 years to live(maybe less), I assume, so even though I enjoy those things i'll spend my allocated time playing WA doing the few schemes that I enjoy the most, if we lived for like 10000+ years i'd be a master of everything(eventually) lol, I wish I could learn all languages, learn all subjects, play all sports, do everything...

Why can't we have mini BR maps? That take like 5 minutes to complete, or like TTBR maps, that are way shorter and can be completed in like 40-80 seconds? That would be fun as hell! And very skilled :D

And because I can't put my best effort into TFL, or feel happy enough to play other players picks due to this, it's best that I avoid it.


Offline spleen17

Re: New Free League
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2017, 01:08 PM »
I wasn't going to get involved in this thread, mostly because we seem to discuss changes to free league at least once or twice a year, and nothing ever happens, so it seems like a pointless argument. However, I have been thinking it over and I'd like to share my ideas for an ideal 8-scheme free league that would attract both classic league players and new players on wormnet.

First of all, I do think free league should be modelled on classic league, with 4 rope schemes and 4 default schemes. I actually think this is essential in order to get a decent number of people playing. I would also reject all 'specialist' schemes (such as bungee race, SSR, etc), anything that basically turns into a free win for the 3 or 4 players who are actually good at them. The learning curve for these games is just too high, and especially these days you can't expect anyone to put the hours in to mastering them. And if the schemes are not being played at their highest level, then what is the point of including them? So I am proposing a balanced league of 4 rope schemes and 4 default schemes, all of which require different skills and can be easily picked up for new players.

My 8 schemes:

Darts - I think this one is pretty obvious. Skill-based scheme, plenty of maps, popular with new players and with a dedicated cult following that will add to the activity of the league. My only problem with it is that it can get a bit map-whorey, so I would recommend making bo3 map-picker mandatory. dS community will remain in charge of approving / rejecting new maps based on their fairness.

Big RR - Don't think anyone is disputing that this should be included, it's a very popular scheme on wormnet for old and new players. I would however eliminate draws by taking the remaining number of seconds in your turn when you hit finish into account.

ZaR Roper - Yes I'm biased but I really think this scheme deserves it's chance in free league. It has one of the largest active communities on tus (way bigger than dS, for example). It's played in AG way more often than than most free league schemes, new players enjoy it and I think it would also attract some of the best ropers from classic league. TFL really needs a good rope/attack scheme to be successful, it's something that is fast-paced and fun and will add something fresh and different to the league.

Regarding fairness: I don't see why people complain about the instant mines, it's the same for both players, avoiding them is part of the challenge. If anything it actually makes it easier to come back when you are behind. And yes you can get some impossible / unlucky crates but no more so than in roper, and navigating these turns is a big part of the strategy of the scheme. Destructible terrain also adds another strategic element, opening up tunnels when you are ahead and so on. Overall I think it's just as skill-based as normal roper, just with a different set of challenges. And in leagues it will be played with 2 worms per player, of course, as in the ZaR cups and tournaments we have run (check the results from these - the best players wins way more often than not).

Wascar - Always been a very successful scheme in WO, seems to be one that a lot of people enjoy and it's totally fair so I don't know why it hasn't been mentioned more for league play in the past. It's a different kind of racing to big RR, much closer to ttrr and requires great skill and concentration.

Intermediate - The original WA scheme should obviously be included. I would also make it bo1 and allow the player who picks the scheme to decide whether it is played on an island or cavern map.

Forts - Kind of a BnG equivalent for free league, I think it's important to have a scheme that rewards these skills as well. Has a decent amount of strategy involved too. People might say that it takes too long but in 1v1 with 3 worms per player I don't really agree that it does. Sudden death could also be moved up to around the 15/20 minute mark. I would also make default-sized maps mandatory unless both players agree.

Aerial - Again, this one is pretty obvious. Very popular scheme that requires different skills. I would personally keep the crates, I think they make it more interesting, though obviously superweapons and x2 damage should be removed. Sudden death is essential too, not sure if it has been officially added to the free league scheme but seems like most players agree that it should be.

Boom Race - I would also be ok with Battle Race instead (although I agree that it can get too map-whorey). Boom race is a fun scheme that is fairly easy to pick up, and one that players can improve on with practice. I also wouldn't mind Kaos or Drown Syndrome as the 8th scheme, but there's no way they should be bo3 because they take far too long. So I think boom race would be my pick for the 8th scheme.


Few other things:

Regarding bo7 playoffs - I wouldn't mind it, but I think if it were to happen then classic league should switch to bo7 too so that the two leagues share the same format. I think bo5 quarter-finals / semi-finals and bo7 final might also be a good solution.

60 day-seasons and resetting overall stats - yes, obviously if any many changes to TFL occur then these should definitely happen.


Make these changes and you will have a fun and fair league that attracts players of all skill-levels. I'm sure activity would be off the hook, there is something there for anyone and none of the boring or isolating schemes that only one or two people are good at. Hope you guys agree.

Spleen out.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: New Free League
« Reply #22 on: February 04, 2017, 01:17 PM »
Excellent post spleen, couldn't agree more and it's an even better lineup than the previous one :)

The difference between BR and Boom Race for me is it takes so long to make good maps for BR, you can make boom race maps literally within 2 minutes there and then.

Battle Race has to be tested properly, I watched Husk test a map before, and was incredible, he's possibly G.O.A.T and it still took him quite a while.

I want your proposal so badly now, sound much more fun than Classic :)

Offline Peja

Re: New Free League
« Reply #23 on: February 04, 2017, 01:37 PM »
once you master 1 weapon you can compete in 4 out of 8 classic league schemes, if you master 2 weapons you can compete in 6 out of 8.
now you want free league going down the same road? surprise surprise, it will end up as dead as classic league is now, while a few dude enjoy playing their fav schemes.

Offline Sensei

Re: New Free League
« Reply #24 on: February 04, 2017, 02:07 PM »
Agree with Peja on this one. Don't know why everyone want to limit it to 8 schemes and make a big fuss about it. If money is involved, I would understand. But right now - really don't get it.

You afraid of PO's and scheme picks? Cmon, no one gives a f@#! about that.
Walrus and me played PO's finals few days ago. He was drunk af and I haven't slept for 30 hours. Just turned on skype and enjoyed couple of games. That's what Free is all about.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: New Free League
« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2017, 02:57 PM »
Agree with Peja on this one. Don't know why everyone want to limit it to 8 schemes and make a big fuss about it. If money is involved, I would understand. But right now - really don't get it.

We want to limit the schemes because all these schemes appeal to very few players, the whole point is to present a fun, exciting, less elitist mind set of schemes for newer players to get involved with.

The % of WA players who are actually comfortable with all the TFL schemes is very very small, for various reasons.

You afraid of PO's and scheme picks? Cmon, no one gives a f@#! about that.
Walrus and me played PO's finals few days ago. He was drunk af and I haven't slept for 30 hours. Just turned on skype and enjoyed couple of games. That's what Free is all about.

Who is afraid? That's as ridiculous and childish as saying "stop crying" when someone makes a valid complaint.

If you and Walrus are so comfortable getting drunk and playing so casually without sleep, why even bother playing League matches? You can do that without reporting it into a player-hype database.

It's something to laugh about sure, but nothing to be proud of.


The point is to get rid of the least popular schemes, they can be played in special events like Cups/Tournaments/Challenges, you can also play them as often as you want as funners with your friends.

But this League isn't just a League, it's a community, I met one of my closest friends through this game, this game is a huge reason why I am successful, and Leagues have always been that part that bring people together.

By taking a risk like this, we have an opportunity to bring in fresh blood, even though it's painful for me, i'm willing to drop BnG(my favourite scheme ever), for the sake of the community. Wouldn't you be willing to make some small sacrifices to bring in new players and make new friends? Who knows what we could all achieve together.

Offline Kradie

Re: New Free League
« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2017, 03:29 PM »
You play to get higher points and win, that's the common idea of playing in a league.

Being under the influence of alcohol, drugs and sleep deprivation, is something that should be kept in unofficial games.
Global Wormin' - A Friendly Discord Worms Server
https://discord.gg/zvFwZuAKQB

Offline TheKomodo

Re: New Free League
« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2017, 03:32 PM »
Agreed Kradie, although, it IS fun :D I've done it myself  ;D

Offline spleen17

Re: New Free League
« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2017, 05:15 PM »
That's not really the point of a league though Sensei, it's not meant to just be a piss-around. If you want to get drunk and skype each other you can just play funners.

TFL is pretty much a dead league atm, I'm surprised you even got 4 players to the playoffs this season, and I doubt it will happen next season without the kind of major overhaul that we are talking about. Otherwise there's no point in having it activated if the 3 or 4 players who actually play are not even that interested.

Offline Sensei

Re: New Free League
« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2017, 05:58 PM »
Who is afraid? That's as ridiculous and childish as saying "stop crying" when someone makes a valid complaint.

Dude. I meant afraid as in: "10-15 schemes is too much and ppl will just pick what they usually play when they're about to play PO's". Try reading it properly.

Limiting league to 8 schemes will just get it more inactive and eventually plenty of guys will stop doing it cause repetivity. If you want to get newcomers around TUS and show them fun/casual side first - they'll be directed to this league.

After they get in Free - they'll figure out "Wtf, this is same shit as classic but without money prizes!"

Obviously my words in previous post were a bit misunderstood when I said Wally and me were f@#!ed up while doing finals, but nvm. I'm getting pretty inactive in W:A anyway, these changes you guys proposing will just help me to stay away from league stuff, so I won't bother you with opinion anymore.