Team17 has announced Worms WMD

[Lex]

Yes, he meant no harm.  It is good of him to have come here in the first place.  In the past, Team17 had stuck to their own forums.  Now that the Team17 forums are inexplicably gone, it's about time that Team17 reached out on other forums.  So, thanks for that, anyway.  I just hope Jonno realizes that there is much to be gained through even more interaction with the community, as other great game companies have shown in the past several years.

[Peja]

none of you will ever accept anything different than a remastered WA with some new gadgets.
we are a lost cause for t17, a bunch of guys being impossible to please.
theres no need to invest anything into a group of roughly 100 people playing a game from 1999, it would be a waste of time, and money.
the self-aggrandizement of this community is funny.
it was a nice gesture to visit these forums,leaking some stuff, asking for input etc.
its just stupid to compare t17 with blizzard, they play in total different leagues.
blizzard has a meaningful community being worth implementing advanced marketing ploys, worms armageddon does not.

[darKz]

its just stupid to compare t17 with blizzard, they play in total different leagues.
blizzard has a meaningful community being worth implementing advanced marketing ploys, worms armageddon does not.

He didn't compare them only to Blizzard though.
I've been playing a lot of Path of Exile the last few months (more than 1200 hours to be precise) and I know for a fact that Grinding Gear Games have only some 50-ish employees, yet they do an amazing job over there, interacting with their players and asking for input constantly. Didn't know you also played, Alex!

Y'all need to understand that the folks over at Team17 are not interested in creating the best possible product, they're interested in making some quick bucks. They have a different philosophy than other (more successful) companies, that much is obvious.

[Lex]

none of you will ever accept anything different than a remastered WA with some new gadgets.
we are a lost cause for t17, a bunch of guys being impossible to please.
theres no need to invest anything into a group of roughly 100 people playing a game from 1999, it would be a waste of time, and money.
the self-aggrandizement of this community is funny.
it was a nice gesture to visit these forums,leaking some stuff, asking for input etc.
its just stupid to compare t17 with blizzard, they play in total different leagues.
blizzard has a meaningful community being worth implementing advanced marketing ploys, worms armageddon does not.

I don't think you understand.  I am talking about the potential for seriously greater audience interaction by, for example, giving free copies of the beta to famous streamers and requesting that they play it on stream and talk about it, then gather the information meant to improve it, and get that person to stream it again.  That sort of thing could really open up the audience for the game and the company as a whole if they were willing to accept the input.  A good target person would be someone with lots of fans who's critical of the franchise already, TotalBiscuit.  There are some other good target people too.  The whole franchise could become much more popular with enough love and care.

darKz, yeah, I played Path of Exile TOO much; so much that I started understanding how the guy who died playing Diablo 2 did.  I had to stop playing because I was spending all my time on it for a while.  What an awesome game!

[Peja]

none of you will ever accept anything different than a remastered WA with some new gadgets.
we are a lost cause for t17, a bunch of guys being impossible to please.
theres no need to invest anything into a group of roughly 100 people playing a game from 1999, it would be a waste of time, and money.
the self-aggrandizement of this community is funny.
it was a nice gesture to visit these forums,leaking some stuff, asking for input etc.
its just stupid to compare t17 with blizzard, they play in total different leagues.
blizzard has a meaningful community being worth implementing advanced marketing ploys, worms armageddon does not.

I don't think you understand.  I am talking about the potential for seriously greater audience interaction by, for example, giving free copies of the beta to famous streamers and requesting that they play it on stream and talk about it, then gather the information meant to improve it, and get that person to stream it again.  That sort of thing could really open up the audience for the game and the company as a whole if they were willing to accept the input.  A good target person would be someone with lots of fans who's critical of the franchise already, TotalBiscuit.  There are some other good target people too.  The whole franchise could become much more popular with enough love and care.

i dont see any potential for turn based artillery games to get popular, otherwise we wouldnt play a title from 1999. worms is for people who enjoy hotseat brawls based on a comical setting, it offers turn based strategy + shooting/executing attacks.
the only popular turn based multiplayer games are trading card games, which is different thing. it seems like people prefer a dynamic enviroment when it comes to online games. if someone wants the combination of shooting and strategy, they can simply play mobas. its more popular, its more dynamic.

could t17 do better? the answer is yes. but its not needed, they dont get challenged from other companies in their niche. this already shows the limits of getting popular. the target group is too small for others to try to compete for it, but big enough to make a living by releasing a game every few years.
to stay with your example, Grinding Gear Games has to be innovative, otherwise their rivals would destroy them. 

[TheKomodo]

Peja, you seriously underestimate how many people around the world like the worms series lol.

It just needs a modern kickass version.

[Aerox]

none of you will ever accept anything different than a remastered WA with some new gadgets.
we are a lost cause for t17, a bunch of guys being impossible to please.
theres no need to invest anything into a group of roughly 100 people playing a game from 1999, it would be a waste of time, and money.
the self-aggrandizement of this community is funny.
it was a nice gesture to visit these forums,leaking some stuff, asking for input etc.
its just stupid to compare t17 with blizzard, they play in total different leagues.
blizzard has a meaningful community being worth implementing advanced marketing ploys, worms armageddon does not.

I don't think you understand.  I am talking about the potential for seriously greater audience interaction by, for example, giving free copies of the beta to famous streamers and requesting that they play it on stream and talk about it, then gather the information meant to improve it, and get that person to stream it again.  That sort of thing could really open up the audience for the game and the company as a whole if they were willing to accept the input.  A good target person would be someone with lots of fans who's critical of the franchise already, TotalBiscuit.  There are some other good target people too.  The whole franchise could become much more popular with enough love and care.

i dont see any potential for turn based artillery games to get popular, otherwise we wouldnt play a title from 1999. worms is for people who enjoy hotseat brawls based on a comical setting, it offers turn based strategy + shooting/executing attacks.
the only popular turn based multiplayer games are trading card games, which is different thing. it seems like people prefer a dynamic enviroment when it comes to online games. if someone wants the combination of shooting and strategy, they can simply play mobas. its more popular, its more dynamic.

could t17 do better? the answer is yes. but its not needed, they dont get challenged from other companies in their niche. this already shows the limits of getting popular. the target group is too small for others to try to compete for it, but big enough to make a living by releasing a game every few years.
to stay with your example, Grinding Gear Games has to be innovative, otherwise their rivals would destroy them.

Team17 are very challenged in their niche. They're just competing with freemium mobile phone games and indie/free2play games on Steam. That is their competition right now. And it's fierce. Who is going to play Worms WMD when they can just play League of Legends, POE or Hearthstone? Not one single "gamer" person.

It might be a no return point. Team17 might not have the man power, resources or design capabilities to bring the turn based artillery mode to the front of the gaming industry but there's a very good middleground. There are lots of games with active communities. Lots and lots. Even free browser games without login (get in and check the amount of people in the lobby and games hosted at any given time... Plus I bet all of us can imagine a proper 2016 Worms game,  feature rich, super customization, amazing animations and terrain deformation and a complete online experience with daily quests, an incorporated clan system or even a hat shop. It will never happen and even if it did it's unlikely it would succeed, see Age of Empires Online, based on a much more popular franchise. There are many other examples of simple games succeeding based on competition, WA could do with Curve's (another browser game) competitive features, it's just snake! And hundreds of players compete daily in ladders, tournaments, clan games...

[Tomtysti]

Peja:

I think the horrible quality of Worms titles after WA/WWP has tricked you into feeling there's no future for new WA-type gameplay.

"i dont see any potential for turn based artillery games to get popular, otherwise we wouldnt play a title from 1999."

Has there been any actual contenders to beat the title from '99? No. All of them have been aimed at kids basically. And they're really, really bad even in that aspect (performance issues and bugs, boring art style, graphical fidelity 10 years behind, scrapping some of the best features to add new unnecessary ones, underestimating kids' skills by dumbing down gameplay aspects without any good reason, boring gameplay design, not listening to fans etc).

Sure, it's still motherf@#!ing Worms, a lot of people love the type of gameplay and/or have nostalgia about the series, but since there's no competition for Team17, a lot of us have become conditioned into thinking that the recent titles are actually not that bad, when in reality they are complete f@#!ing horseshit that could be made so much better and so much more succesful in more capable and ambitious hands, we just don't have any actual good games to compare the new titles to (only WA, but it's a really old game that is really dated and so far from perfection).

Aerox:

Well said!

[skunk3]

Worms is a vastly popular franchise. I don't see Team17 having any issues attracting tons of players if they do WMD right. Cross-play capability and global game lobbies will ensure that there's a large player base, even if the core game itself isn't as great as it could be. Heck, all of the games released post-WWP would still be pretty active today if they were cross-play compatible and had global lobbies. The reason why the newer Worms games are essentially dead online isn't because people don't like Worms, or that the newer Worms titles are terrible, it's because Team17 has made several egregious errors when it comes to basic features. People send me game invites all of the time when I have Steam open.

I don't think that the newer Worms titles are completely bad. They're only bad in comparison to W:A/WWP. I've played them all extensively. Yeah, they could definitely be way better, but each one brings in new stuff to the series. W:A would be amazing if it could somehow be updated to include newer weapons and utilities WITHOUT resorting to Project X. I'd love to see sentry guns, worship, termites, magnets, lucky charms, a mega mortar, poison strike, etc. That's probably never gonna happen, but it sure would be nice.

In the age of browser/mobile games and shitty f2p stuff, people want quality. They're willing to pay for it. Has anyone EVER played a mobile game that was actually worth a f@#!? I haven't, lol. I have a feeling that WMD is going to be awesome. The footage they have shown thus far looks incredible IMO. What we know about WMD:

-beautiful art style
-return of a W:A style ninja rope (as far as how it actually feels, we will have to wait and see)
-over 80 weapons/items
-cross play capability with basically every platform, including consoles (PS4 coming later)
-smooth, 60 fps gameplay
-vehicles (not sure how I feel about these yet, tbh)
-buildings (I love this idea)
-lots of other info and surprises that haven't been released yet in terms of gameplay and features

That's enough to get me excited.. dunno about you guys. The fact that Team17 have not yet announced a release date to me is a positive thing. I am hoping that what this means is that the community managers / dev team are listening to suggestions and implementing them. Team17 is definitely aware that the majority of Worms fans consider W:A to be the best in the series. Team17 is also aware of why people think the newer titles suck. Like Peja said, there's gonna be some of you who will not like WMD because it's not exactly like W:A, only with updates. It will be a totally different game, and I doubt the mechanics are going to be as precise as that of W:A, but I don't care. I'm going to pre-order and I will be playing online on day 1 as I have with every Worms title since W:A.

[sock]

Looking forward to this game. 

[TheKomodo]

@Jonno

Are you guys taking on board and implementing anything we've suggested into the game?

If so, what do you intend to add that you've seen here? Could you write a list if possible?

^^ This may determine whether I buy it or not, because the game currently lacks many features which make the gameplays workflow better, I like things to be as efficient as possible in order for me to take it seriously, yes your graphics are absolutely incredible! Beautiful! The maps looks better than anything i've imagined, you guys HAVE put in some serious work and that's fantastic, but without ease of use like WA has, it's a step back not forward in the end :/

[sock]

@Jonno

Are you guys taking on board and implementing anything we've suggested into the game?

If so, what do you intend to add that you've seen here? Could you write a list if possible?

^^ This may determine whether I buy it or not, because the game currently lacks many features which make the gameplays workflow better, I like things to be as efficient as possible in order for me to take it seriously, yes your graphics are absolutely incredible! Beautiful! The maps looks better than anything i've imagined, you guys HAVE put in some serious work and that's fantastic, but without ease of use like WA has, it's a step back not forward in the end :/

ya

[Aerox]

skunk we go through this every new worms release since worms 3D.

as long as physics are dumbed down like they've been since WWP, the game's depth goes out the window and with it its learning curve, replayability and deep competitive aspect.

[skunk3]

skunk we go through this every new worms release since worms 3D.

as long as physics are dumbed down like they've been since WWP, the game's depth goes out the window and with it its learning curve, replayability and deep competitive aspect.

There's nothing wrong with the physics of the newer games. What is wrong with the newer games, PRIMARILY, is:

1. divided communities (games are released on multiple platforms with no cross play)
2. no global chat lobbies (no real interaction with other players aside from in-game chat unless you add them as friends and talk to them outside of the game)
3. crappy ropes
4. lack of customization on all fronts
5. less than ideal UI (very console-like, which is a huge turn-off for Worms players who started on pre-Reloaded PC Worms titles)

The physics aren't the problem. Sure, zooks and nades behave differently in the newer games, but it's not 'problematic.' I'd actually argue that the physics are far better in Clan Wars than they are in W:A. The physics in W:A are actually pretty bad if we're talking about realism. We're just used to it and have grown to like it.

The list I mentioned is the real cause of lack of success in recent Worms games... especially #1, #2, and #4. Without those, the community will shrivel and die in no time in any Worms title.

[Aerox]

There's nothing wrong with the physics of the newer games. What is wrong with the newer games, PRIMARILY, is:

this is the problem with current society. Someone can see himself involved with an activity for almost 20 years but lack of self awareness unable him to make proper judgement.

It's as if people don't even grasp why the schemes we play, Elite, Bng, Roping, Rope racing and a long etcetera only have depth and a learning curve because the physics are complex and most importantly, coherent and predictable providing valid understanding.