The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
All About TUS => TUS Discussion => Topic started by: Statik on November 12, 2013, 04:20 PM
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TUS is a great league and site, but I wonder what will be after it? It's not really evolving now, people and clans are less active than before. There are many reasons of it, but it's a normal process of getting older.
The real question is: how to make people play WA together if so many of them are busy or maybe lazy to sit on ag for 30 mins and search games they would like to play?
First thing that comes into my mind is Worm Olympics. It's system is so nice, people can see date/times of the tournaments and plan their schedule according to that. If I know that there will a roper tourney at 18:00, I will be sure I can find some other players who like roper and wanna play it not-just-for-fun.
This system can work better than the current one in the future. You see date/times of "meetings", a list of signed-up players and decide to particiapte or not.
Also it solves a problem with "scheme avoiding". Since there will be a global points table, more tournaments you play, more points you have. There won't be more hysteria tournaments than elite or roper.
The only problem is organization. I have no idea how should it work. WO tourneys take too long time, sometimes 4-5 hours. TUS cups system is better at this point except TUS cups take months to finish :D
Well, the point of this topic is not to invent a new system. I just wonder if every1 is happy with the current one :)
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There won't be more hysteria tournaments than elite or roper.
Why would you think so?
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I think it's getting better again though. It was really slow at the end of summer/start of autumn when the skools started. But activity seems on the rise again, and not just because of humble bundle stuff. At least, I'm not having too much difficulty finding clanners atm.
http://stats.worms2d.info/
I worked on ideas to make TUS a little better some months ago, but I quit when I realized it wouldn't be much of a difference and not bring back the players that left neway.
And I guess that goes for your WO idea as well. It sounds ok on paper, but do you think it would improve much?
I do miss the tourneys though we used to have on this site. Like 3 hyst, elite or t17 tourneys a week :) But yeah.. at some point people didnt show up nemore and mods gave up on it :(
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There won't be more hysteria tournaments than elite or roper.
Why would you think so?
more asks, more games. When 80% of the active community want to play a certain scheme, there also must have more games (cups, tourneys etc).
Imo the problem nowadays, people dont take the time to get an allrounder. So its mayme time to change something in the system.
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There won't be more hysteria tournaments than elite or roper.
Why would you think so?
Because there will be a strict amount of tournaments of a particular type (per month for example). 10 hysteria, 10 ropers, 10 elites, ...
I have a genious idea: maybe we should ask SPW, Random, franz, etc, what would bring them back to TUS :D except the chance to win a huge amount of money... They seem to gladly play EAC. And Mablak is active in EAC/CWT. Or is it all about money, even 100$? xD
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maybe add tus parallel league? - add more schemes (normal, maybe more)?
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maybe add tus parallel league? - add more schemes (normal, maybe more)?
Hmm... Free league, isn't it?
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Money is the key...
we can be as competitive as we like, but at the end of the day.. its just a replay on tus showing you won or lossed...
we need to add money to the singles/clan league
i thought MonkeyIsland was going to add advertisement banners to the site, in order to generate some income, but either he forgot.. or just too much work...
or perhaps hes working on it...
but im pretty confident if we had a way to pay, the activity would rise, and so would the skill level.
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Sorry, but no bloody wonder TuS is dying out, you let people choose and pick what they play and let them avoid certain schemes etc, this is what happens.
If you had been strict from the start, not only do I think TuS would be really active, most players would be better players with more skill.
Edit: Man, I haven't even see MI update the nice shot news on the main page for at least 2 months now...
It's getting to the stage where people are gonna be scared to pick anything...
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wtf r u talking about?? are you in the wrong thread??
how do you purpose MonkeyIsland and the staff become stricter? if ppl dont want to play a particular scheme, then they have the right to announce that prior to game, but their chance of finding an opponent gets worse and worse...
some people dont want to play roper, and theres nothing we can do about, what do you suggest komo? slap them with automatic losses? some people will accept that, knowing they wont win anyway, or they just dont find roper amusing in any way... so now tus is filled with free wins??? does that solve a problem? or create more?
so then what komo? if the auto loss is not the answer yo becoming more strict, should we ban members from playing tus??? do you believe thats the ticket to activity??
why dont you think through what your saying, before you say ignorant shit.
as far as MI not updating the main page: the man has a life just like the rest of us, cuz him some slack.
ontopic: i rly believe your in the wrong thread ;P
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and if duplicate tournament games in the classic/free league?
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Nooooooo fuuuuutureeee
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Avi, the same thing I posted in the other thread should be taken into account here, with the exception it applies to singles as well so i'll change it a bit:
Clans/singles shouldn't be allowed to ask for specific schemes, regardless what the reason is, if you don't want to play certain schemes, then recruit players who DO enjoy those schemes you don't enjoy, and if you are playing singles and you don't want to play specific schemes, then don't play, people care too much about having the best statistics, they even care so much about losing a scheme they don't even f@#!ing like, if they don't like it, just play and lose and focus on what you DO enjoy.
If all clans took this on board, there wouldn't be a problem, clans who tried to avoid schemes would gain a bad reputation, and everyone could just avoid playing them, and they would have to eventually play if they want to compete.
^^ The same goes for singles...
It isn't rocket science, all it would take is a team effort, but people are too selfish aren't they...
And yes, if I was MI, I would do everything possible to prevent well known avoiders from participating.
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Edit: Man, I haven't even see MI update the nice shot news on the main page for at least 2 months now...
I can update the promos on the front page as well (and will continue to do so when interesting stuff crosses my path! look at the promo above for Showcase when it's out, as well as the thread, of course).
If people find interesting shots to put on the promo, I will gladly put the shot there for all the wormy world to see, as long as I get a little nudge towards the game.
Thing is, a community is what a community itself makes it. Some people like MI do their thing to make things more awesome, but without a community to make it work, it's not going to work.
And yes, if I was MI, I would do everything possible to prevent well known avoiders from participating.
This is the first time I've seen someone suggest that less players will lead to higher activity. An interesting idea, I'll give you that.
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exactly whats d1 said.....
your suggesting less players will increase activity, its foolish....
i have already said several times, people who ask for clanners/ or singles with stipulations of less schemes they are willing to play, have decreased chances to find the game they are looking for.
thats their problem, and they obviously accept it... i dont think because someone does not want to play a bng, or a hyst, or a roper game, that MI should remove the from tus, thats crazy talk komo.
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we should do something to show some people that what we have here.......... the best side of Warms A and a whole TUS idea....
without newcommers TUS will day coz too many players are starting to be inactive and not enaugh is comming.
Without a promo stuff we wont do it ...
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If you think it's crazy, fair enough.
I think it's crazy to allow such bad sportsmanship,it degrades the overall skill level of most players.
People do it, because they can, if they weren't allowed to refuse picks, they would play anyway.
These players were allowed to get used to an easy way of playing TuS, like I said, if it was heavily frowned upon from the start and everything possible done against it from the beginning, there wouldn't be such a problem, this, I know to be a fact, it's just obvious...
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i forgot what its like to argue with you....
no matter what anyone says, and no matter what the facts truly are, and no matter how many people disagree with you, you still take your opinion and claim its a fact... welcome back komo.
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Reputation is worth a lot in worms.
This is almost a merge with the avoiding schemes topic.
Those who avoid schemes will not make a name for themselves and will most likely find it harder to get games and will get found out - either by forums or in playoffs.
Looking at the TUS Classic standings it is easy to see that the top ranked players are open to playing whatever - look at their games played by schemes.
The activity is simply because of the lack of competitive players and timezones dictate who can play who. It is a matter of getting people to return/play worms. No Random00/Mablak/Ramb0/Dark/Zippo/Almog hurt the activity. They moved on - we just need replacements.
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I agree with Ryan.. All the people you mentioned had their most active periods of gaming during First Blood, and that's 6-9 years ago. Can't expect them to last forever. We need someone to take their spot as the top competitive players. It was a bit weird how they all turned inactive one afte rone around the same period of time though, that was not such good timing. It almost felt like a dominoeffect, once franz got inactive, almog got tired, the whole @CF clan stopped playing in the league, and so on...
WA has an history of moving forward from league to league. A league starts showing signs of inactivity, it's slowly dying out and people are losing interest; a new league rises out of the death of the previous one, people are becoming interested in the buildup of the league, players are coming back to fresh ranks to show who's still the boss around. TUS doesn't deserve this at all, neither does the community. We have something special here and we can't give it up. GJ opening this thread Statik, it's a start
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avi, so far, in this "arguement" you are the only person who has actually disagreed with me.
D1 didn't say he disagreed, and eitherway, I never suggested less players makes more activity, if you didn't let people away with avoiding they would get used to it and play anyway.
And even if D1 does disagree, that's only 2 people...
Whatever, I really think it would work my way, and it DEFINITELY would be better worth competing my way against everyone, any and all schemes at any moment, much more challenging than this shit that we have right now, that IS a f@#!ing fact.
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I personally think things are going really well, this game has already outlived its lifecycle several times over.....to expect it to last forever is ridiculous. The game is going to die eventually, and I really don't think there is anything anyone can do to prevent that. TUS is already the single most successful league WA has ever seen, in my opinion. Let the good times roll until they don't anymore. The only thing that could lead to a slight uptick in activity would be a patch to 4.0. I've been around this community for years and years, and have yet to see anyone/group of people raise activity besides starting a league, as crazy said. And we already have a league. I firmly believe the future of TUS is what you are looking at right now.
That isn't a bad thing.
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I think your wrong walrus... I was a bit skeptical myself until komo cap locked words like DEFINITELY, and IS..
this man seems to have the answers to competition, and activity.
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Well you are right and you are wrong Walrus, it's the most successful if you only think about it being active and most amount of players participating.
But personally I think you would be wrong if you think about level of skill in competition, level of sportsmanship & players not being scared to play anything at anytime.
Don't get me wrong, i've had a great time playing this league, but it just doesn't cut it anymore imo.
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D1 didn't say he disagreed, and eitherway, I never suggested less players makes more activity, if you didn't let people away with avoiding they would get used to it and play anyway.
And even if D1 does disagree, that's only 2 people...
Whatever, I really think it would work my way, and it DEFINITELY would be better worth competing my way against everyone, any and all schemes at any moment, much more challenging than this shit that we have right now, that IS a f@#!ing fact.
OK then. I think it's a terrible idea to exclude people based on not wanting to play certain schemes.
For one thing, people are here by choice. W:A is competing with every game ever. If you force people to do what they don't want, they would be gone without a second thought. And unlike [insert random new FPS], there's not a fresh can of players we can open to 'replace' them.
Even if it's just avi and I doesn't matter. It's a great or terrible idea based on the facts presented, not because of the people who agree/disagree.
As for skill, I also disagree. I don't follow leagues as much aymore (which I'm sure is a surprise to absolutely no one), but I do know that I see plenty of good replays at the reuploaded TCB challenges. _ssm_ solved Yoshi's Island in one day! Took people months to solve it back in the old days when TCB was new. Go ahead and watch Statik's TTRR runs.
People grow tired of things if they stay the same, that's all. That's why I shift my focus around (went from RR and shopper to bungee and WFW to hysteria to abnormal, cups to challenges and CWT commentating, now movie making). You can see it in TEL too. Activity wanes, MI deactivates it, people complain, MI reactivates, activity goes back up.
CWT activity went down (2008), khamski bans some people for slow/no activity (2009), shit changes and people take their games seriously again. Now it has come so far that games are streamed.
The strength of W:A lies in its versatility, something T17 doesn't seem to understand either. Why not let people discover that at their own pace?
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I think people don't 100% understand what Komo is saying. He only means the classic league, where people are supposed to play all schemes. I think I can avoid shoppa/t17 for a whole season and get into POs, because I can play as many ropers/rrs as I want during the season, so it's not a problem if I get 5 points for each :D
There should be a freedom, but not too much freedom. And one more time: we are talking about TUS classic now.
Another problem is: many people don't care about other leagues (Free, TRL) and their ranks in those leagues. Maybe if we had 1-2 rank tables and less possibilities to get high positions in tables, Komo would be more happy (and all people would focus on 1 league). That's why I mentioned WO and it's nice point system.
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If he means that, he contradicts the lack of skill part more than is his usual standard ;)
If you can qualify with just 2 schemes, you have to win every game you play. A win gains you only 5 points, so a loss will cost you 40. Any win percentage below 89% would therefore cost you points. The points you lose cause of free win reports will give you a further handicap. All this combined means that if you want to qualify for POs with just 2 schemes, you have to be the best with a big margin.
And even then, 2 schemes is not enough to win the playoffs.
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thats how i see future of tus if you ask me
(http://www.soulprint.ru/uploads/images/00/08/17/2013/06/06/9d311c.jpg)
buuuuut wait! remember the adds idea? once we'll get it realized everything will be active like the other day
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I am talking purely about competitive League games played online.
I don't see how this contradicts anything i've said, for me challenges have nothing to do with League skill, you can practise the same thing for hours and hours on end and get lucky once and win.
While I like the challenges it has nothing to do with what I am saying, I am talking about singles/clanners online.
You think it's a terrible idea, fair enough, I think it's a f@#!ing fantastic idea and you can't take that away from me just because most players are pussies :)
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Must players are pussies? :-X
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Maybe only money could change it.
And my opinion about the avoiding thing. Just let them search for specific schemes, I dont see a problem there. So nino and avi can play clanners, also Random and me, Chicken and almog etc. There are a big number of One-Group-Types. Lindsay Vonn or Body Miller can do every discipline on skiing, but not most of the rest. So this is how tus classic is.
Everyone getting older, less free time, no need to play a scheme you dont like. Pure waste of time for me playing a ttrr, roper or wxw. But my sportmanship doesnt allow me to give a freewin to opponent. So at the end, I dont even start to play classic league. The biggest suckage: 90% of my opponents woulda pick a roper scheme against me cause they just wants the easy points instead of a good challenge by playing default.
And thats the problem from that allround system with a smaller community. Roping and default isnt even close to similar. I really hate to rope but like to play default, even today and tomorrow.
1v1 is ine thing. But I dont play clanner cause of that and every clan needs at maximum 4 members online at same time if not having allrounders in their squads.
Split it into default and roper classic leagues and lets see what happens. We cant lose anything.
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Bad idea, terrible idea.
If you keep dividing the schemes/players up then eventually the newer generations will hardly play each other.
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exactly komo.... splitting up the leagues is a bad idea....
there for, as SPW said... you should not have a problem with SPW and Random searching for an elite only clan game.... THAT INCREASES ACTIVITY.
otherwise, SPW and Random have to wait until they also have Unique, and Darkz online to play with them.... what are the chances all 4 of them will be online???
try to open up your mind to this concept komo... Forcing ppl to play schemes will decrease the activity!!! NOT INCREASE IT...
in an ideal world, and a larger community (like darkone said) we could be stricter, and we can force ppl to expand their skill base if they want to compete in classic...
but thats not what the worms community is...
and anyway, you dont even play worms atm, you have no idea whats going on with the league, your speaking about this topic as if its a major concern in todays tus league, and its not... just because Pizzasheet has had a recent problems concerning someone avoiding a scheme, does not mean anyone else is experiencing the same problems... i know im not.
If anyone says to me, ill single/clanner, but plz dont pick ttrr... im quite alright with that, i still have several other schemes to pick from, if they limit me to default only schemes, thats when i may decline the offer.... and that will be their problem, thats the challenges they accept as individual or as a clan, that their options to find opponents are more limited when they willingness to play each scheme is limited....
just try to wrap your mind around these facts.... because these are facts komo, not your twisted idea of "i think this, this and this, therefore they ARE facts" style of argument.
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I don't see how this contradicts anything i've said, for me challenges have nothing to do with League skill, you can practise the same thing for hours and hours on end and get lucky once and win.
You're absolutely right. Practicing never helped anyone become good at anything.
[...]I think it's a f@#!ing fantastic idea[...]
Most people who are trying to put a point across would follow up that phrase with
because...
and then make sense.
That's how people have been posting in this thread. Just because you don't read past the "because" bit doesn't mean it isn't there :P Make your point. Just because you say something doesn't make it true.
edit: just an afterthought. It's a bit scary how often we agree lately, avi ;D
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1st off, the point I am trying to make, is that SPW & Random shouldn't have to wait for other players, they should be willing to play any scheme at any time against any clan.
Our "community" is big enough to take this into account.
I am not suggesting to force people to do anything, I am actually suggesting everyone starts encouraging people to play any scheme at any time against anyone, instead of being picky, this would dramatically increase activity whether you both choose to believe this or not.
I don't play the game anymore, but I still follow it, and i've only not played it for what, 3-4 months, that hardly makes me inexperienced does it?
D1, I can't even be bothered responding to your poncy posts, it doesn't bother me THAT much.
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komo, your talking about ppl who have played for 10 years, if they dont want to roper, they are not going to and you know it
even when proven wrong with facts, you still argue your point... there is a word for people like you.
but honestly, its truly entertaining to watch you try to defend your weak argument, its just like the old times, aint it komo?
i mean it man, TUS needed some drama around here, and its good to have you back!! if anyone can spice up a forum with nonsense, its "TheKomito"
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even when proven wrong with facts, you still argue your point...
Everything i've said is completely true, if people did what I suggest, the community would be WAY more active.
If you go on Wnet asking for specific schemes you would have to wait longer for someone to accept than if everyone was prepared to play any scheme.
The reason why you have to wait sometimes is because people don't want to play that specific scheme and so you must wait for players who DO want to play that scheme.
It's quite hilarious how clouded your mind is.
Your problem is you just don't want to admit I am right, it would kill you inside, your ego is too big for that because your avi the cool little black kid right?
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I have to admit im enjoying this topik. Welcome back komo. I agree one thing with you. People should not avoin certain schemes. But as it is said so many times in the topik already, ill say it again. People would RUN away. It would NOT increase activity. This is NOT an opinion.
btw i have been crushing avis ego lately by not letting him manipulate me, so you are wrong there komo ;D
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Lol, I don't care IF it would work or not, all I am saying is that IF IT DID WORK, and if people DID go along with it, it would increase activity.
And avi is trying to deny that telling me I am wrong, it's ridiculous lol.
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So your saying that if everyone on wnet enjoyed playing every scheme... we would have more activity ?
Well, that's extremely intelligent thinking komo...
I can't argue that.
Here's one fir you... IF everyone in the WORLD did not fight, we WOULD have world peace.. and that's a FACT!
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(http://southparkstudios.mtvnimages.com/images/south_park/episode_thumbnails/s17e06_480.jpg)
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Here's one fir you... IF everyone in the WORLD did not fight, we WOULD have world peace.. and that's a FACT!
Exactly ! Now you're getting it !
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lets just reset f@#!ing overall stats and start from the beggining, this is how the life circle is still running...
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Like D2 ladders? Every 6 months the overall league stats reset and you have to start from scratch. 8)
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sounds logical cuz many overall top players are inactive
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Wasn't the point of a separated overall and seasonal rating to prevent resetting?
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Making a TUS advertising banner on the worment with tourneys and league stats will help in my opinion. Or just a TUS BOT spamming al the day in the wormnet..
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Making a TUS advertising banner on the worment with tourneys and league stats will help in my opinion. Or just a TUS BOT spamming al the day in the wormnet..
this
even when you saying your friend you playing worms he'll prolly laugh at you because worms usually associated with game for kids although average age of W:A players is very big compare to other online games.
But tell your friend he can win 300$ every season and take a look at his reaction lol
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What darkz said. There is something to be said about points penalty for inactivity, though. Not so much to punish, but more to reflect the fact that if you don't play, your skills become less.
But tell your friend he can win 300$ every season and take a look at his reaction lol
"I can win more with poker"?
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For those talking about the big cash from adverts, I found a nice and pretty recent article (http://www.reliablesoft.net/can-you-still-make-money-with-adsense/) about Google AdSense. I don't know how much traffic TUS generates but the author says "I don’t usually advise my clients to run AdSense on websites that have less than 300-400 unique visits per day" - which I personally doubt TUS currently has. I could be wrong though.
Edit: Not to mention the website needs to be generally popular on Google. I don't know how many people google "worms armageddon league" every day but I have a feeling that it's not a lot. :-X
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Resetting the overall standings, now that would be a great idea as long as it was all saved and stored in a hall of fame or something.
I would perhaps even try some serious seasons playing all schemes.
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Don't reset overall stats. ಠ_ಠ Just make them slowly deteriorate to a certain threshold if a player/clan gets inactive for 2 weeks*. Looking at the table I'd say the ranking should drop -100pts per week up to the point of 2500-3000pts for clanners and 3000-4000pts for singles. If a player/clan played a single game during their inactivity period the clock resets and they woulnd't lose points for another 2 weeks. All of that = small incentive motivating good players to keep playing + overall ranking showing the best players from the past couple of seasons. And if someone wants to come back to the league after a good while, they wouldn't have to start all over again like in the case of a total reset.
*This could be tweaked to be more dynamic, for example 3 weeks of permitted inactivity but -200 each week, or perhaps even make it logarythmic)
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Good ida van.. D1 used a similar system punishing inactive players at RRkit
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About that, what I had in mind was losing a percentage of your overall points over the duration of your inactivity.
overall rating - ((overall rating - 1000) * x/100) = new rating
The benefit of losing a percentage of the points is that the pressure is higher on the players/clans with high ratings which could encourage them to play more.. I guess. ::) Shouldn't be too much though, I'm thinking 5-10%.
Example case (5%/month):
| | CF | dC |
| Current rating | 7820 | 2921 |
| After 1 drop | 7479 | 2635 |
| After 2 drops | 7155 | 2553 |
| After 3 drops | 6847 | 2476 |
As you see CF would lose almost 1000 points during 3 months of inactivity while dC would only lose roughly 450. After one year CF would've lost 3200 points, dC would've lost 1800. The lower the rating gets the less you lose obviously, so dropping from the top spots will be rather quick but going back to 1000-ish would take a pretty long time.
Just my 2 cents. 8)
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But TUS doesn't even base who gets to go into the playoff on the overall standings anymore, does it? What'd be the practical point of implementing rating deterioration? Wouldn't it only twist the meaning of "overall standings", since they wouldn't technically be overall anymore, they'd be some kind of a mix between overall and seasonal... both of which already exist on TUS, the latter serving the purpose of deciding playoff participants, arguably what you should be looking at if you want to find out who the best players are today.
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People still care about their overall rating, though :) it's more of a status symbol, but the thing about status is that you should work to maintain it.
Or as I put it earlier:
There is something to be said about points penalty for inactivity, though. Not so much to punish, but more to reflect the fact that if you don't play, your skills become less.
I like the percentage drop better, because that's a good representation of how it would happen in real life. A bad player doesn't have so much skill to lose, so the rating should drop only slightly.
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But isn't the purpose of the all-time, overall standings to show who the most successful players in the history of the league are/were? Do you feel the current overall standings fail in providing that information or do you disagree that this should be the purpose of those standings?
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I dont care a lot about my single stats, but I do very much care the clan ones. But Im not a single classic player cause of my leaks at roping. Like avi said, we are talking here about players which playing for years. I dont have the motivation and als the time to learn how to rope high skilled. Roping is just a shit, I wouldnt need it at all. But its good having ropes so the community can grow bigger cause of more game types. So in the end, its good t17 created ropes. But with a smaller community maybe we really should split rope and default schemes, just too different!
If we make a list of real allrounders, how big it would be? I see more specialists than allrounders and a league system should be flexible enough to change what people really wanted. The time has changed.
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KRD, I guess it's rather easy to save the "all-time high score" for each player in some sort of table, maybe add the date on which it was achieved next to it.
I don't see a problem with how playoff-qualification works right now since this would only affect inactive players/clans anyway.
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For those talking about the big cash from adverts, I found a nice and pretty recent article (http://www.reliablesoft.net/can-you-still-make-money-with-adsense/) about Google AdSense. I don't know how much traffic TUS generates but the author says "I don’t usually advise my clients to run AdSense on websites that have less than 300-400 unique visits per day" - which I personally doubt TUS currently has. I could be wrong though.
Edit: Not to mention the website needs to be generally popular on Google. I don't know how many people google "worms armageddon league" every day but I have a feeling that it's not a lot. :-X
http://www.google.co.uk/trends/explore?q=worms+Armageddon#q=worms%20Armageddon&cmpt=q
This shows the decrease in organic searchs of worms armageddon. Worms Armageddon league didn't have enough search volumes. Also bare in mind that this traffic will be divided by people searching about w:a for different platforms such as mobile, ps2 and other consoles.
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I agree with KRD and avi's views. I don't think you should reduce points for inactivity as they are like archives of data that the community wants to see. I want to see people who played really well and get elite ranks in tus classic. I want to see who is the highest overall in a certain scheme type and use that to motivate me to try and be 1st. When i was active i was keen on trying to get in the top 5 for elite, t17 and bng and i did for awhile. Komo came and just won loads of bngs to get 1st in that. But also that season komo was only asking for bng tus classics, which is fair enough so in a sense i believe hes being a hypocrite to say we shouldn't let people avoid.
Players have different motivations for tus classic but most of the time people want to reach playoffs and the playoffs should be representative of being a good allrounder. It just determines how much of an allrounder you can train to be.
SPW - I believe you have a shot at reaching the PO's because you can win elite, t17 and bngs. If you made it into the po's you'd have a chance of winning tus classic, just as much as I think i could. I think the tus system is perfect point wise, you just have to make a choice if you want to play rope based schemes to be regarded as a great wormer. I think its worth playing rope based schemes and even started to enjoy them and saw my shop, rope and rr skills improve over the last couple of years when i was active.
The issue is people move on from wa and get busy in life. Its also about popularity, im sure if you had a tus season with activity from players like franz, mablak, random00, mil2, almog, dibz, dubc, barman and others all fighting for a playoff space you'd have a lot more activity. But people move on, i guess TUS needs to look at ways to motivate people to play again but thats difficult, what you should be doing it looking at ways of improving the skill set of current players? Im not active so i couldn't tell you how good the recent seasons participants are, but if people think its just a matter of being active to reach the playoffs and doesn't require great skill, maybe look at the criteria to make POs, i couldn't comment on that.
WA has its lulls, but it'll get better. I personally will only ever play 1 computer game in my life and that is wa. I just don't have the free time at the moment to play actively and when i do get free time i want to put them into other projects like a marketing blog or renovating my home. I got inactive because i felt like playing computer games became a waste of my time, i don't think i'll ever do long sessions of playing wa for the whole day. But i could easily log in for 2 hours a day and enjoy a handful of games when i get more free time. I recently took part in eac and that suited me because i didn't need to be that active and i still had some great competitive games even though i wasn't online much..
sorry for the egocentric post, just my thoughts on things.
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But also that season komo was only asking for bng tus classics, which is fair enough so in a sense i believe hes being a hypocrite to say we shouldn't let people avoid.
That isn't true, I just picked BnG more or less every single time, I asked for BnG only like a few times when I was drunk, and once I got such a high rating people would pick it against me so it would usually be 2 BnG's.
I can't deny my only goal was to become 1st in BnG though, and yes I still am kind of a hypocrit because I have avoided certain schemes like the plague, but like I said i've always played them when there has been no alternative.
Nice post by the way, but I still think TuS would be awesome to have a fresh start on the main League.
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It's not easy (if even possible) to get into overall top if all top players are inactive.
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Interesting discussion on ratings and how to manage it.
In terms of overall stats - I'm sure if you ask people care more for their win/loss ratio and not for points. An inactivity point deduction or actually a points reset would be fine - just archive people's win/loss stats.
That way people won't be demotivated about having less points and can have a "current climate number 1 status" and those who have played in the past still have a record/history to show.
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i would be all for 10% drop, per season for inactivity...
KRD, i dont think your taking into consideration what statik said..
im not taking anything away from CF's accomplishment, they have a very high overall ranking...
but they did that when alot of clans were up and coming, and everyone had the same advantage to gain points....
but now trying to steal that rank, with them being inactive is nearly impossible.
same with roper, im trying to get 1st place over-all rank in roper scheme, but its almost impossible because many of the top ten players are not active, so i can only gain 5, to 10 points tops per win, where as if the top 10 were active, i could play vs. them and have a nice point increase..
so when you take that into consideration, do you believe the overall is accurate?? i dont.
% decrease for inactivity is the way to go.
ps. Lol @ That isn't true, I just picked BnG more or less every single time, I asked for BnG only like a few times when I was drunk
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Well said about everything there avi, very good points that everyone should take into consideration.
But why is it funny what I said?
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So avi, theoretically...
If CF was as inactive as they currently are, but the clanner landscape today was much more active and offered many more new clans with fresh 1000 ratings for dt to play against than CF had during their prime, would you argue that CF's overall rating, in their inactivity, should gradually increase to compensate for it? If not, why would that be so different to hitting them with the rating decay stick just because currently active clans allegedly have more accurate ratings than they did back then? How do you even measure this and determine what an appropriate rate of decay would be? And what if the situation changes again in the future and this crutch begins to fail in making things feel more fair? Go back to the old system with no rating decay? Now that would make it difficult to compare success between clans active during different TUS seasons...
Don't get me wrong, I can imagine scenarios where having rating decay in a ranking system is beneficial, or at least addresses some immediate problems, even if I don't like the idea in principle. But out of the many concerns Statik and others have brought up in this thread (scheme avoiding, waning clanner activity, people looking at overall standings for information on who the best players/clans are today and so on), I feel not a single one is best covered by the introduction of rating decay, much less all of them at once.
Also, since you ask, yeah, I do actually think the overall clan standings on TUS are a reasonably accurate representation of who the most successful TUS clans of all time have been. You have to keep in mind that the overall standings don't take playoff performance into account and do take into account how clever a clan has been in picking its opponents during each season. Between that and CF's higher overall win percentage in general, despite them having much fewer games played, it does seem intuitive to me that they'd be placed higher than dt on that particular table. Of course I also think dt should be perfectly allowed to frequently link the interested public to the hall of fame where you're shown to have dominated playoffs for like a year straight, to which CF could reply that sure, but playoffs were more difficult to win back when they were doing it, to which you'd call them filthy Germans and so on. But after all was said and done, the two clans would get about equal recognition and I think that's as fair and accurate as you can have it under the system that's in place.
Now if you wanted to tackle the problem of players and clans who are skilled at many schemes not being awarded generously enough compared to scheme specialists, TUS does already implement the "all-around" standings and playoffs... it's just that nobody knows they're there. But that should probably be discussed elsewhere.
Edit: Oops, the starting rating is 1000 on TUS, not 1200.
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KRD, and with all due respect to CF and all it's players, I don't think CF would win as many games today as they did back then seeing as alot of the players they used to beat are pretty much the same players that play now, only difference is CF have been inactive and haven't really gained any skill and the players they used to beat have increased their skill quite a bit, obviously CF would still be a top clan, but just not as ridiculously good as they were before...
I think dt could honestly have better statistics than CF if they picked their schemes as carefully as possible, but this would prevent alot of dt members from even being able to participate, ruining the spirit that dt has... The same could be said for a few other clans as well.
But that isn't the concern here, nor do I even feel it's what bothers people, CF have barely played TuS this entire year, it is nigh impossible to reach them in overall, I understand what you are saying about you see Overall as the entire history, but personally I think that's bullshit when the top clan hasn't even played for like an entire f@#!ing year lol...
I see CF as the "World Record" holders but Overall should be reset like once a year or something...
KRD - How can you say PO were more difficult to win back then? Because I would say that's wrong and I feel it's been the same for years, it hasn't got any harder or easier, it all comes down to how good your team is and how good your opponents are, it always has, however logic would dictate it should get harder as time goes on because players should be better shouldn't they?
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Filthy germans! Me being one supported a thread in dt to more carefully pick schemes when clanning some time ago. It was quickly disagreed on. :D
At least I tried, fellow filthy germans, at least I tried! ;)
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KRD, and with all due respect to CF and all it's players, I don't think CF would win as many games today as they did back then seeing as alot of the players they used to beat are pretty much the same players that play now, only difference is CF have been inactive and haven't really gained any skill and the players they used to beat have increased their skill quite a bit, obviously CF would still be a top clan, but just not as ridiculously good as they were before...
Which explains why CF aren't the ones comfortably winning playoffs today, and the various TUS sections are there to show it.
I think dt could honestly have better statistics than CF if they picked their schemes as carefully as possible, but this would prevent alot of dt members from even being able to participate, ruining the spirit that dt has... The same could be said for a few other clans as well.
Right, but the way this league (and frankly any other competition on any other game that I can think of right now) works is that being careful about optimising your yields means you're a better player/clan as far as the league is concerned. I'm sure you don't mean to say that TUS should award anyone for what they could have achieved, but that's how it's coming out...
But that isn't the concern here, nor do I even feel it's what bothers people, CF have barely played TuS this entire year, it is nigh impossible to reach them in overall, I understand what you are saying about you see Overall as the entire history, but personally I think that's bullshit when the top clan hasn't even played for like an entire f@#!ing year lol...
I see CF as the "World Record" holders but Overall should be reset like once a year or something...
Compared to previous WA leagues, TUS already does a great deal to showcase currently dominant players and clans, with only the overall standings there for clans who may have done amazingly during seasons but perhaps failed to win as many playoffs (not saying CF failed to win playoffs, of course, they have the cups in their profile to show otherwise). Why is it so vital that this information be hidden when instead it'd be much easier to just tell players who are looking at overall standings to learn about the best clans today that they should look somewhere else for that information?
KRD - How can you say PO were more difficult to win back then? Because I would say that's wrong and I feel it's been the same for years, it hasn't got any harder or easier, it all comes down to how good your team is and how good your opponents are, it always has, however logic would dictate it should get harder as time goes on because players should be better shouldn't they?
I didn't actually say clanner playoffs were more difficult to win back then, I only gave that as an example of the sort of counterargument CF could have resorted to in this imaginary battle for best TUS clan ever, hehe. No doubt they historically took their non-playoff games and rating more seriously than dt, and so I would find it perfectly reasonable if they wanted to keep the overall standings as they are, not introduce rating decay or other shenanigans (hiding inactive clans until they start playing again was the norm in past Worms leagues) to them.
But on the subject of logic, if clanner competition is as tough today as it's ever been, why have so many people been complaining about the lack of highly competitive clans in recent years? I don't know if this is actually the case, but if there were more competitive clans around in 2010 and 2011 than there are today, wouldn't that by definition make old TUS playoffs harder to win?
Filthy germans! Me being one supported a thread in dt to more carefully pick schemes when clanning some time ago. It was quickly disagreed on. :D
At least I tried, fellow filthy germans, at least I tried! ;)
Lmao. There we go, filthy German theory proven!
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I may be wrong, but even if there were 3-4 competetive clans of the same skill level, then they would never reach CF rating without playing vs CF. Those clans would have similar overall points but much less than CF because they couldn't "steal" their points (or lose own points if CF is really so great :D).
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Which explains why CF aren't the ones comfortably winning playoffs today, and the various TUS sections are there to show it.
So we agree here or?
Right, but the way this league (and frankly any other competition on any other game that I can think of right now) works is that being careful about optimising your yields means you're a better player/clan as far as the league is concerned. I'm sure you don't mean to say that TUS should award anyone for what they could have achieved, but that's how it's coming out...
CF is about the only clan in recent years (by that I mean during TuS) that has been so careful to pick their games, not that there is anything wrong with that, just saying that most clans on Wnet have PO winning potential, yet mostly have members who don't take the game as serious, I guess my point here is, CF is the only clan that acts like this, sometimes it feels like (comparing in football terms here) they are Real Madrid and everyone else consists of 3rd division English League teams...
Honestly, it's impossible these days to even create a team that can compete with CF's statistics due to the fact (and I have to be honest here) dt has Mablak but he rarely plays and they have many not as strong players, AeF has barman but again he hardly plays and we are the same, for example I was very strong at BnG/Roper/Hysteria but pretty weak at everything else, but while saying that Peja has got a hell of a lot better and I bet he's had more fun learning with great players than winning like a robot...
cFc came the closest to CF when I was very active and we had lalo/daina/Artic all active too, but Artic left, I was an asshole so decided to leave too...
And just when AeF are starting to grow very strong, because Peja has improved like hell, Swist/kyho are getting ridiculously good, (sorry if you didn't want this mentioned already but it's important to this post) Kyho & Swist decide to leave and recreate AQ, that really hurts AeF... Sure it will increase activity but now both AQ/AeF will suck in PO and really decrease their overall climbing ability...
Compared to previous WA leagues, TUS already does a great deal to showcase currently dominant players and clans, with only the overall standings there for clans who may have done amazingly during seasons but perhaps failed to win as many playoffs (not saying CF failed to win playoffs, of course, they have the cups in their profile to show otherwise). Why is it so vital that this information be hidden when instead it'd be much easier to just tell players who are looking at overall standings to learn about the best clans today that they should look somewhere else for that information?
Well, looking @ other information takes too long, I can't be bothered having to select Clanners - Season - Overall - then clanners again... wait on it loading, then pick another season, wait on it loading, pick another season, wait on it loading, etc etc... (Honestly while I am on that subject, why the hell does it automatically flip to singles everytime I change from overall to a season??? It's annoying as hell, I want it to stay on clanners while I browse clanners !)
Basically, Overall shows you the past, not the present or the future... Maybe if CF were active, and cFc were still as strong/active, TaG too, what the actual f@#! are doh still doing there anyway ?!? It's things like that why I personally wish there was a reset...
I didn't actually say clanner playoffs were more difficult to win back then, I only gave that as an example of the sort of counterargument CF could have resorted to in this imaginary battle for best TUS clan ever, hehe. No doubt they historically took their non-playoff games and rating more seriously than dt, and so I would find it perfectly reasonable if they wanted to keep the overall standings as they are, not introduce rating decay or other shenanigans (hiding inactive clans until they start playing again was the norm in past Worms leagues) to them.
Not trying to be a dick but:
but playoffs were more difficult to win back when they were doing it, to which you'd call them filthy Germans and so on.
I just don't see why we can't take the overall standings as they are, save them into a hall of fame and start fresh again, giving everyone a chance to battle to the top again, perhaps CF would even get active again to try and reach 1st again? Perhaps dt would fill more of their potential for overall and take them on? Maybe other clans would form to try and take that 1st place? Not saying it would, just maybe... I think it'd be more exciting at least, it's been what 5 or 6 years now cmon...
But on the subject of logic, if clanner competition is as tough today as it's ever been, why have so many people been complaining about the lack of highly competitive clans in recent years? I don't know if this is actually the case, but if there were more competitive clans around in 2010 and 2011 than there are today, wouldn't that by definition make old TUS playoffs harder to win?
Well I never said clanner competition is as tough today as it's ever been, I just said logic dictates players should be better now so it should be, but clearly it isn't because even though alot of the great players are better, the community as a whole is just much less active, I mean, I believe the more choice we have the more diverse we will become, it isn't just 3 schemes for the entire WNET anymore, we have hundreds of schemes now...
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kyho and swist leave AeF? I see.
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whek krd said " but playoffs were more difficult to win back when they were doing it, to which you'd call them filthy Germans and so on. "
he clearly said, that it could be a counter argument CF could make... he did not mean in any way that po were harder in the past, he also did not mean they were not, komo... try to comprehend.
KRD, i rly do not care if inactive clans get 'runged' for inactivity, im just saying i think it should happen for 2 reasons: maybe it will give inactive players incentive to keep playing...
and also, as statik said its impossible to reach them, without having the luxury of competing vs. them...
as i said, im trying to reach 1st place roper, but like 7 out of the top 10 (if not all) are inactive... how will i ever reach those points, without being able to compete with them??? 5points at a time? and for each loss i lose 70???
so in order for me to gain 100 points right now, i have to win 20 consistant games, and if i lose 1, game... im back down 70.... so i can go 20wins, 1losee, and i only gained 30 points....
do you think the top ten had these struggles 4 years ago when they achieved their high rank?? i dont think so... so do you believe the overall statistics are accurate? i dont.. its my opinion.
ps: dont look at my overall rating, because i did not try in the past, i never reported any games, so my actual over all is very inaccurate. its all losses, no wins.
but the past 3 seasons in roper im 78.75, 80.35, and 84.21% thats a higher win percentage by atleast 10% then most of the top 10.
but its still not enough, my win percentage has to be 95% for me to even have a chance... does that seem fair to you??
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well about this who is the greates clan of all time cock duell: imo its clear dt is it. they won most playoffs, and they won 100% of their po finals against cf (afaik xD) anyway who cares for overall stats and winning seasons, its all about championships.
í dont think it matter much, but stats are clear here.
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avi, I was talking to KRD and he was talking to me, the man can speak for himself so shutup and stop trying to take any opportunity you can to start arguements with me.
And yes, he clearly said, AFTER, I pointed it out.
But by damn, everything else you said is spot on ;D
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TUS is a great league and site, but I wonder what will be after it? It's not really evolving now, people and clans are less active than before. There are many reasons of it, but it's a normal process of getting older.
The real question is: how to make people play WA together if so many of them are busy or maybe lazy to sit on ag for 30 mins and search games they would like to play?
First thing that comes into my mind is Worm Olympics. It's system is so nice, people can see date/times of the tournaments and plan their schedule according to that. If I know that there will a roper tourney at 18:00, I will be sure I can find some other players who like roper and wanna play it not-just-for-fun.
This system can work better than the current one in the future. You see date/times of "meetings", a list of signed-up players and decide to particiapte or not.
Also it solves a problem with "scheme avoiding". Since there will be a global points table, more tournaments you play, more points you have. There won't be more hysteria tournaments than elite or roper.
The only problem is organization. I have no idea how should it work. WO tourneys take too long time, sometimes 4-5 hours. TUS cups system is better at this point except TUS cups take months to finish :D
Well, the point of this topic is not to invent a new system. I just wonder if every1 is happy with the current one :)
I don't see you on AG and i'm every day. You playing mostly challanges. Let's play some funners :)
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aaa and second thing. For me league is a bit boring. Cups and tournays are more exciting for me, but they are rarely organized. Cups are as a mundial :D A lot players, at least me play with more attention, more emotion ;]
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Komo, think like this: avi was trying to help you understand what KRD said, not him to make clear what he meant. ;)
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Well Prankster that doesn't really make sense, seeing as I don't have superpowers which make me able to read other peoples minds...
KRD said it was "harder back then" which I replied to, THEN he went on to explain what he meant.
I could go ahead and do the same thing KRD did and say, all I did was point out what he actually said, regardless of what he meant, so the comment avi said was totally pointless and a waste of his own time anyway because everyone knew that already...
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I don't really see the point in debating about how CF got their rating. They decide to play in strong groups and if dt or AeF decided to play in groups of members who can cover all schemes they could easily climb the rating and top CF. Its just a choice of deciding how to run a clan and how competitive you decide to be.
CF achieved it with that method and it should remain at the top of the overall ratings. Someone can do the same route to get there if you try hard enough, and if CF decide to play and become active they'll probably drop points from being rusty.
KRD's arguments addresses the issue of deducting points due to inactivity, no one has come back with an argument to go against his since his post but just carried on talking about CF.
I agree with KRD. Don't reset the standings. That's not the answer.
At the end of the day, what exactly is the problem?
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Komo, think like this: avi was trying to help you understand what KRD said, not him to make clear what he meant. ;)
Well Prankster that doesn't really make sense, seeing as I don't have superpowers which make me able to read other peoples minds...
You only have to read their posts ;) It's all in there, just as Prankster said.
Rating is something that is quite often discussed in chess, so it's not really a new discussion for me to read about. Ratings on TUS should be considered as split: the seasonal rating displays how strong a clan/player has performed during a season, while the overall displays how strong a clan/player is.
The thing is: a rating number tells you absolutely nothing if there's no context. A while back, Magnus Carlsen got the highest chess rating ever: 1862. This broke Garry Kasparov's 10 year record of 1851.
However, let's take a look at the #2 at the time. In Carlsen's case, the #2 had 1812. In Kasparov's case, the #2 had 2770.
This means that Kasparov was more ahead of the rest of the field than Carlsen was (by quite a wide margin), even though his top rating was lower. If you take everybody's rating in the world and add 400 points (or remove 400 points), it doesn't change the difference in points, which is what ratings are all about. (To make sense of these small point difference, in chess, you can not win more than a couple of points by winning a game, unless you beat someone who is much, much stronger than you)
The same applies to the overall ratings here: We only know CF's highest rating here, but to make sense of it, you have to know the ratings of their opponents. Everybody's rating depends on the average rating of the rest of the competition.
Now, when people with high ratings suddenly stop playing, they are taking their high ratings with them - the points are lost to the ladder. This means the average rating drops as well. Suddenly, reaching that higher rating becomes impossible, because nobody is in the same rating range (as avirex explained). Saving rating records is fine, but you also have to take into consideration the context under which it was reached.
An illustrating example in chess of an inactive player keeping a high rating probably would be Bobby Fischer, who stopped playing chess after he became world champion in 1972 (madness set in, sad story). It wasn't until 1990 until somebody got past that number. Does that mean nobody was stronger than Fischer until that moment? If you ask some really strong chess players who knew both Fischer and Karpov (the next world champion) well, most of them thought Karpov was stronger, even in the 70s already. In short, the inactive rating doesn't adequately display strength anymore. There are a lot of examples of inactive people coming back, still having their old ratings, but getting squashed by their opposition. A rating decay would have accurately displayed the slowly losing of skills.
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Hello everybody!
Why I'm not interested TUS Classic League?
- The answer is simple. I do not like the scheme, which it is. I hate Roper. I am interested in land schemes. I do not like BNG. But sometimes I'm ready to play. He just seems very boring. Actually fall asleep.
When I came to the TUS, many players have played with me in the land schemes, did not choose Roper. I do not care for points, but win/lose ratio interested. I like to play in land schemes, I in them, and to play, to enjoy the game.
Why I'm not interested TUS Free League?
- Also. Previously played what they wanted, and now there are players who want to easily win. But here more interesting schemes.
I like idea the TEL and TRL
- The reason is simple. You know in advance what to play and have no choice. In Tel do not play, so as long as temporarily out of time.
Very often my games include "they agree on the third pick." Most of them - the pick (scheme) is known in advance.
I can tell your that I have no desire to spend time training in Roper. In life, except for VA is much more interesting, and also has a job that takes a lot of time.
Why I like cups?
- You can play it in something like that. Cups are well implemented to TUS. This cybersports, cyberSports interest. It would be interesting to clear the rating, the ratings do overall, and the schemes. and take results with more than 20 players. So many cups from 6/8/12 ppl. It's easy to win, they should not affect the rating.
- But there's a problem, and a long period of prime time. From Monday to Friday I have prime-time 4 hours out of 24!, Weekends have the opportunity to play, but not always.
What's on in the tournament?
- Also you can play it in what you like. You know in advance the start time, you know in advance how much time you will spend on it.
It is also interesting to reset rating, making the overall rankings, and the schemes. and take results of tournaments with 16 or more players. A lot of tournaments with 6-8 ppl. It's easy to win, they should not affect the rating.
Challenge?
- But like everything, all happy ... but why is the time to perform a little.
ttrr Challenge should always be open. later registered user must have an equal chance to perform. in fact this is the record set for a given map and in the same conditions (offline). and others too ... but I do not know what to do with the problems.
I lost interest in the WO.
I will play, but not as much as in the summer. My 4th place in the summer BO does not cost anything! This is an 8 medals kami?
The expression suggests that this Olympiad. in each category (in this case, the scheme) must be successful ...
It should not be overall rating. It can be various rating schemes or nominations
- The best Roper (the player, the best in the Roper / wxw / ttrr)
- The best in Normal
- Unbreakable (the player who has won three tournaments in a row)
- The hero (the player has 5 gold medals)
- ...
170 tournaments a month is a lot. It is necessary to limit the number of tournaments. Even three times. And do alternating them at some prime time (see where the activity more). If the tournament is limited, the small number of tournaments may affect attendance. Somebody from old times come back and show what's what. He did not have to spend time frequenting.
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Dmitry, I don't like cups points system (but most of all I don't like how long time they take), because it's not dynamic like league standings or challenges. The one who plays more cups gets more points... A better motivation is fancy medals and cash prizes :D I doubt any1 checks cups standings.
I agree with D1, most overall ratings in most schemes are out of context, which is nowadays...
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Ok well I missed that one, sorry.
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We could have yearly overall reset, like in OIL (http://www.normalnonoobs.com/rankinghistory). Also, we could still count absolute overall, but don't show it by default.
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I lost interest in the WO.
I will play, but not as much as in the summer. My 4th place in the summer BO does not cost anything! This is an 8 medals kami?
The expression suggests that this Olympiad. in each category (in this case, the scheme) must be successful ...
It should not be overall rating. It can be various rating schemes or nominations
- The best Roper (the player, the best in the Roper / wxw / ttrr)
- The best in Normal
- Unbreakable (the player who has won three tournaments in a row)
- The hero (the player has 5 gold medals)
- ...
170 tournaments a month is a lot. It is necessary to limit the number of tournaments. Even three times. And do alternating them at some prime time (see where the activity more). If the tournament is limited, the small number of tournaments may affect attendance. Somebody from old times come back and show what's what. He did not have to spend time frequenting.
[attachment=1]
Seriously... stop hosting hysteria tournaments in wo there is one every day
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We could have yearly overall reset, like in OIL (http://www.normalnonoobs.com/rankinghistory). Also, we could still count absolute overall, but don't show it by default.
This, would be awesome !!!!
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or we could just add a yearly rank and leave the others, would be the same lol.
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Sounds better the way Kory said it. ;D
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Also, we could still count absolute overall, but don't show it by default.
Just save the highest value and show it somewhere on clan page... Don't need to count anything :)
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Seriously, changing what to display at the standings is the most important problem regarding the future of this league?
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I don't really see the point in debating about how CF got their rating. They decide to play in strong groups and if dt or AeF decided to play in groups of members who can cover all schemes they could easily climb the rating and top CF. Its just a choice of deciding how to run a clan and how competitive you decide to be.
CF achieved it with that method and it should remain at the top of the overall ratings. Someone can do the same route to get there if you try hard enough, and if CF decide to play and become active they'll probably drop points from being rusty.
KRD's arguments addresses the issue of deducting points due to inactivity, no one has come back with an argument to go against his since his post but just carried on talking about CF.
I agree with KRD. Don't reset the standings. That's not the answer.
At the end of the day, what exactly is the problem?
what do u mean no one has came back with an argument to go against his since his post, but just carried on talking about CF???
i believe i have.... my roper stats are all roughly 80% winning in the past seasons, which are all higher then top 10 roper players.... but i will not have a chance to get number 1 spot, without being able to play those players (but they are all inactive) the only way ill be able to get #1 ranking, is to win 95% of my ropers, or better, for a long period of time.... did u even read my posts chicken?
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Well, they are overall standings, not "the last few seasons" standings... :P
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Well then they should really be called "Historic Standings" lol.
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Bullshit avi, you have two clanmates in that top-10 and they are both active :P I can't speak for Statik, but I would accept a tus roper any day of the week against you.. You gotta stop noobashing avi, look at me, I've barely won 60% of my ropers and yet I'm waaaaay above you in rank :D
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Bullshit avi, you have two clanmates in that top-10 and they are both active :P I can't speak for Statik, but I would accept a tus roper any day of the week against you.. You gotta stop noobashing avi, look at me, I've barely won 60% of my ropers and yet I'm waaaaay above you in rank :D
finally there is it.
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oh jeez crazy... thnx for stirring the pot... lol
SPW, crazy is joking, he is taking a stab at me... if he truly believes getting rank 1 is possible, im not sure...
but statik knows exactly what im talking about... and even if i do play statik, and crazy who are in top 10 with me (i think im still in top 10?) then i can only achieve their rank with time...
i can not get to rank 1, without having 95% win or better... but most of top10 only have between 60-80% wins... do you guys really have trouble seeing the problem here??? only me and statik see the issue?
and komo too!! *high five* ;)
ps: holy shit, i dropped to rank 16... not even a week ago, i was 1 rank above u crazy... i think i lost 2 games to reN, theres like -150 right there.... anyway, im not complaining, and i really dont care if the system gets changed or not.. im just pointing out what i think is the obvious, that the current overall system is not accurate.
i cant believe im saying this, but komo is right... they should be called over-all historical standings lol....
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Seriously, changing what to display at the standings is the most important problem regarding the future of this league?
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I agree avi.
The person who gets the high rank first holds all the cards, which is why I personally value win % over points.
This is why I said win/loss ratio might be fairer to display for historic stats.
Points are fair for a season basis because everyone starts on the same points.
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I understand it because I used to play tus ropers a lot and most points I got are stealed from MI and Artic :D And I think it was unfair to them, because all top players should be active to hold their points. Actually same thing can happen in season too. Some players can earn many points and then avoid every1. Well I'm already bored of this discussion, because I created a separate topic some months ago about that. It looks like people don't want to understand until they try, and I'm not sure top players will come back to protected their top positions, but we could give it a try :D
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One moar idea: if some1 asks for tus default/tus roper only then he should risk to lose more points than usual. For example, if che clan asks for default clanners only, then they should lose 2x points and dt should get 2x points for accepting the offer (in case dt wins). So even if our chances in hyst are not very big, but an expected value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value) of points is positive, we can agree just because it's logical :)
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That's actually a good idea...
I wouldn't say x2 points, but maybe a small percentage more.
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One moar idea: if some1 asks for tus default/tus roper only then he should risk to lose more points than usual. For example, if che clan asks for default clanners only, then they should lose 2x points and dt should get 2x points for accepting the offer (in case dt wins). So even if our chances in hyst are not very big, but an expected value (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expected_value) of points is positive, we can agree just because it's logical :)
This would just be abused, everyone would accept this offer if given. But it satisfies the reason why it would be put in place, and would effectively end the exploitation of a certain scheme. You would have to be crazy to sacrifice 2x the points just to get a certain scheme, because the expected value gained from playing a certain scheme would be so much lower it would nullify the reason behind wanting a certain scheme to begin with. Either way, I don't see it increasing or decreasing activity, as much as people hem and haw about these supposed abusers, they represent a small and very niche group of the overall TUS population.
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I just connect to wnt this week to search some clanners and warmers , oh my god........ its so inactive , is not like 2009-2012 :( nobody wants play
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It's not that bad Wolfgang, Wormnet is as active as before, if not even more active. TUS is in a downtrend, but like every league activity will variate over time. TaG only playing 50 clanners last season is not helping, why not gather your troops and get active again Cristian?
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It's not that bad Wolfgang, Wormnet is as active as before, if not even more active. TUS is in a downtrend, but like every league activity will variate over time. TaG only playing 50 clanners last season is not helping, why not gather your troops and get active again Cristian?
hey bard , but , I try everyday to find some clanner with Lukz , Bry4an , Dead and twy , but always some guys cant coz dont have a partner
now there are like 4 or 3 clans active , dt , tdc , aef? or sometimes inf , is not like before xd
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what about l3x? we are active too lol.
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So a lot of the things suggested in this thread were already done:
- money prizes in the league
- overall stats reset
- league split in default and rope
According to my calculations, so far, the league will have a significant rise (x4 games in singles and x2 games in clanners, the numbers could actually be a little lower) in the current allround season compared to the last classic season. Although I'm sceptical about how the playoffs will work. Also I'm sure the activity will be falling over time. I think the league simply won't have enough players in the nearest future. I'm not saying just close it, but I think it should adapt to a completely different system.
I think what Statik suggested is still the best idea, I mean the regular tournaments system. There's always an activity burst during WO time, although only a few players from this place are interested in playing it, mainly because of the poor choice of schemes there. So I think there has to be a sctrict set of schemes, something like FTM.
Also I see that activity in cups has fallen drastically in the last years. Its like people stopped caring about them at all, yet they still participate in it. There is an exception of course and it's CWT.
tl;dr: Let's have WO throughout whole year!
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There's always an activity burst during WO time
What about making a bot that'll make X amount of tourneys of selected schemes every day?
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cant bot a mod.
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FTM (http://ftm.fniclan.com/index.php) is what we are looking for I guess
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FTM (http://ftm.fniclan.com/index.php) is what we are looking for I guess
Yeah! Ftm tourneys were cool, too bad none played them though
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FTM (http://ftm.fniclan.com/index.php) is what we are looking for I guess
Yeah! Ftm tourneys were cool, too bad none played them though
I already have the schemes ;P
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Come on guys,tus is a really bad-short idea. It's positive quickly to see the great importance given to the soull.
We would that the lightless idea can be write on? I think that this seems to see the write-road.
The solution?
It's more partecipating on the Tus Mega league : an infinite place who play plays better. Can host? Yes,you should in the better. At the last,the idea seems to be an inusual site who all is free. I hope in Tus Free,the story can change yet.
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This is the thing about crazy people, they don't know they're crazy, that's what makes them crazy.
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Woah...... I just noticed ...... TUS is dead???? I went to seasons information and it says the current season is disabled. If that's true it's a real shame!! TUS is an amazing site and league. Are there plans to start it up again?
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Woah...... I just noticed ...... TUS is dead? ??? I went to seasons information and it says the current season is disabled. If that's true it's a real shame!! TUS is an amazing site and league. Are there plans to start it up again?
Blame default and rope leagues.
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Woah...... I just noticed ...... TUS is dead???? I went to seasons information and it says the current season is disabled. If that's true it's a real shame!! TUS is an amazing site and league. Are there plans to start it up again?
We have default / rope and allround leagues now, and they are far more active than the last classic season was.
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Woah...... I just noticed ...... TUS is dead???? I went to seasons information and it says the current season is disabled. If that's true it's a real shame!! TUS is an amazing site and league. Are there plans to start it up again?
We have default / rope and allround leagues now, and they are far more active than the last classic season was.
Link? I doubt it has nice graphs and stuff like TUS. What's the point reinventing the wheel? ???
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https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/rope-and-default-leagues-opened-30694/
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MI still has to fix the link from leagues > standings dropdown menu, it still defaults to classic league season 55
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Oh, never mind, I thought it was a different league altogether, on a different website.