Intermediate

naabs
too drunk to read it

Like I said some time ago i am not any SD lover or hater.
But I disagree with Johnmir,pr and Tenori opinion about sd.
In my opinion tnl intermediate is more boring then regular one.
why? just because U cant win if U had unlucky positions at start....
btw waiting for SD is not tactic.. its just PART of tactic:)

Does he lose second round vs Rafka because of SD?

I wonder what you guys hope to reach. This conversation is absolutly obsolete, shown by endless threads where the same issues already have been discussed. I suppose Johnmir got more bored of Rafkas extremly defensive gameplay then of the scheme. Could have been also TNL.

I must admit, that Koras came around with - from my point of view - the best argument:
-  "just because U cant win if U had unlucky positions at start...." means the luck factor of starting positions increases. Really lol, you try to eliminate the "luck factor" (in fact I wouldnt call it luck) SD, but at the same time the luck factor for start positions raise up. As a consequence you should delete random placement. So you reach step by step your favorit scheme: elite.

Gl Antares, since you have beaten me, you are my favorit for the cup Use the "black power" of SD xD

Hello, guys!
First of all, thank you for all the opinions!

Koras, Joschi and Antares: i actually agree with your reasons (as you remember i was even against cutting creates from the scheme long time ago and i actually agree that SD makes intermediate more unstandart and well balanced), but the thing i hate is that games become like "lame waiting" since someone starts to win, in stead of finding a way of clever tactical moves and great plans. Just watch old games, lol you all play not the first year. Remember how YOU (not me, not Dario, not Jigsaw). You were winning games on a last turns, when your opponents were leading badly by great ideas and unstandart moves. Now 90% of you just prefer to wait to SD. Sitting near PC for 40 sec and do shotgun in last 5 sec.

So, Joschi, you are very close to the truth. I got really bored exactly cause of that, and i don't blame Rakfa! LOL, 90% people play exactly the f@#!ing same!

At the same time, I admit i can be far behind modern playing, and just don't understand something, anyway it is up to you, how to play, i just explain you what i can't understand and what i can't take as it is going now. You are those - who decide.

PS. Again, i'm glad we discussed it somehow again, and it helped me to understand the situation better, but i talk about "evolution" of player's style, not about the scheme itself. It is good. And, Tenori and Pr, Koras is right here (in my opinion), if we don't have SD:

-U can waste all ropes before SD (if U force him to waste a loots of ropes), its np for him cause he can play 'slow' too)
-U will win if U had better positions
-tactic sux cause when opponent lead.... he must just hide well and use shotgun

I'm really afraid of spoiling NNN-luckless scheme by cutting SD off it.

PS2. Koras, friend, i was actually too angry after that game with Rafka. I say "sorry", i still suggest to play NNN-luckless (not TNL-intermediate) in our game if you don't mind. I hope i explained why i said that.

Again, Johnmir gets applaud from me because he exactly took the point from my mouth (with his first part)

Building tactics around SD isn't that bad itself, even though it's a luck factor (you can be Mablak or Dario, but still you are not able to predict when will SD come for sure - after this turn or after the next one). But the thing which really pisses off is that kind of tactic which involves wasting turn time for nothing. It's just f@#!ing lame to compensate the lack of creativity with such "STRATEGIC ELEMENT", that's it. Whatever, I want "spend 40 seconds" button in the next update, it will help a lot, lol.

Quote from: KorasIn my opinion tnl intermediate is more boring then regular one.
why? just because U cant win if U had unlucky positions at start....

This is nonsense and you know it You can start with -2 and still win, if you can think deeply and turn your lack of worms to advantage (hello, John!).

Quote from: JoschiReally lol, you try to eliminate the "luck factor" (in fact I wouldnt call it luck) SD, but at the same time the luck factor for start positions raise up.

Yeah rofl, let's fight SD luck with starting positions luck! Emo versus suicide, rock versus drugs.

Quote from: Johnmir on March 15, 2010, 11:59 AM

in stead of finding a way of clever tactical moves and great plans. Just watch old games, lol you all play not the first year. Remember how YOU (not me, not Dario, not Jigsaw). You were winning games on a last turns, when your opponents were leading badly by great ideas and unstandart moves. Now 90% of you just prefer to wait to SD. Sitting near PC for 40 sec and do shotgun in last 5 sec.

So, Joschi, you are very close to the truth. I got really bored exactly cause of that, and i don't blame Rakfa! LOL, 90% people play exactly the f@#!ing same!

I dont know what is your problem I am much better then I was 2 years ago:)
Mablak is very creative player, but he is also great thinker thats why he won his last 40 games in our league.
Rafka is Rafka... he always take his time(40 s for almost every tourn) but then he complaing about SD(even if it comes in his tourn).I was trying to explain him how it works but he doesnt listen. Not my problem ............

QuoteThis is nonsense and you know it Smiley You can start with -2 and still win, if you can think deeply and turn your lack of worms to advantage (hello, John!).

I said unlucky positions not regular -2.

QuoteReally lol, you try to eliminate the "luck factor" (in fact I wouldnt call it luck) SD, but at the same time the luck factor for start positions raise up.

This is exactly what I mean.

I have better idea:
lets remove this STUPID rule about no knocks in elite!!!!!

QuoteBuilding tactics around SD isn't that bad itself, even though it's a luck factor (you can be Mablak or Dario, but still you are not able to predict when will SD come for sure - after this turn or after the next one). But the thing which really pisses off is that kind of tactic which involves wasting turn time for nothing. It's just f@#!ing lame to compensate the lack of creativity with such "STRATEGIC ELEMENT", that's it. Whatever, I want "spend 40 seconds" button in the next update, it will help a lot, lol.

I think the point is to have a good plan if SD comes in yours or enemy tourn 
Yes waiting for SD can be boring.... This button would be very useful

Quote from: Koras on March 15, 2010, 01:37 PM
I have better idea:
lets remove this STUPID rule about no knocks in elite!!!!!

no way!

Quote from: Koras on March 15, 2010, 01:37 PMI think the point is to have a good plan if SD comes in yours or enemy tourn  

Usually, this "plan" is like "Okay, if it comes on my turn, I rope here and use lg there, gg. If it comes on enemy's turn, I'm f@#!ed". Not really too complicated, just a few patterns.


Also, dear NNN members, stop smiting me everywhere you see me, rofl. I don't smite you for your opinions, it's not funny

Quote from: Random00 on March 15, 2010, 01:50 PM

Quote from: Koras on March 15, 2010, 01:37 PM
I have better idea:
lets remove this STUPID rule about no knocks in elite!!!!!

no way!

#2

Dont compare Intermediate with Elite. 

I vote for knocking in elite! 

(lol, j/k guys)

Well, you and MAblak are special cases. I think you know what you do. But a lot of player watch your playing. Koras, i reraly play and this tendantion of waiting for SD looks very obvious for me. People find a way to have chances with no skill and brain. It is not like i'm angry they can win vs me or you playing like that. If i lose a game - i will never say i lost cause of SD, but when people don't see a lot of things and don't even try to open their eyes, that's so lame If i act the same, i just say "sorry, i'm too lazy to think now", but some people suppose it is an nice way to improve lol. Anyway, i said all i want. It was actually usefull for me to hear your thoughts. Sorry for opening an old story!

Quote from: SPW on March 15, 2010, 03:32 PM

Quote from: Random00 on March 15, 2010, 01:50 PM

Quote from: Koras on March 15, 2010, 01:37 PM
I have better idea:
lets remove this STUPID rule about no knocks in elite!!!!!

no way!

#2

Dont compare Intermediate with Elite. 

I wasnt serious 

Koras and johnmir comon. Don't wait till the last hours!!

Can understand them. They know, this is the "real final". The winner plays vs me and will win 90:10. So let them time, I dont care to wait anyway

God, Koras is not coming, it is 23.00 here. Will wait him till 1.00. Don't know what to do if he doesn't come cause it will be our mistake. We could have played before. This game must be played, no way for tech win here... . Lol, looks like it is the first eveninig we can't play.

In fact, guys, and MonkeyIsland, i know Koras, he never miss planned games. It actually looks like 1) he just lost connection - problems with internet, 2) he has some personal problems (serious) - i hope he hasn't though. We both me and Koras were keeping time to prepair better and find a good time to play, cause we were sure we meet in time. Dear MonkeyIsland, give us a chance to play this game tomorrow evening, please. If me or Koras (depends on who win this game) won't play final till the final deadline (game vs SPW) you just give SPW gold. So we will have to play two games till the last deadline.
This game should be played!