Innovation in games

[TheWalrus]

gambling is excellent

[Kradie]

I'm not advocating betting, but it does take the game further than merely 'spectating'. AFAIK the site has no intention to work with real money, so I'm cool with that. It's a means of getting involved in a game without actually taking the controls. I can't think of many alternatives to that other than chatting/stats tracking or some kind of god powers.

Well, I'm not convinced of your idea. This type of concept isn't exactly revolutionary. People already place wagers in all types of tournaments, private, unofficial  or not. Taking this concept into video game won't stop the need to place wagers, it would only escalate to real money.

You can already see it happening on TuS. Some people may only partake in tournaments and cups if money is involved. Worms Armageddon wasn't about money gamlbing. Obviously it has come to this as people have grown up, and wants a reason to play. There's no shame in that.

[HHC]

Let me rephrase.. I don't give a shit about betting. 

For me the issue is, is it possible to make a game attractive without a human player?
If you want to go beyond simple spectating you need to introduce other ways in which the person behind the screen can interact with the game.

Betting is a way of doing just that, but in no way the only means-to-an-end.
Please don't turn this thread into a discussion on the merits of gambling 

[skunk3]

Modern gaming kinda sucks IMO. I can't remember the last time that I found a game that has 'hooked' me.

For me, gaming started to take a turn right around the time the XBox 360 came out... and the problem is online gaming. Sure, there was online stuff on the PS2 and the original XBox, but not much in comparison. The focus then was making excellent games that do not require any online multiplayer features. Once everything became all about the online multiplayer, gaming got kinda boring for me. (Even though I was playing online multiplayer stuff on PC.)

I don't know if it's because I am getting older and more jaded, but I don't get the same satisfaction from gaming as I used to. I miss the days of local multiplayer... sitting around on the couch with some friends and taking turns, or playing stuff split screen. It's so much more fun to hang out in person and game than it is to sit by yourself on a computer or a console and voice chat.

I'm also not a fan of the most popular genres these days... MOBA is boring as f@#! and not even remotely interesting, FPS is only fun when it isn't broken and preferably it's co-op rather than pure pvp. MMOs seem like fun in theory but in reality all it is just endless, boring grinding.

I am looking forward to playing Destiny 2 when it comes out for PC later this month only because of the co-op. The original Destiny was fun for a while but also pretty disappointing in many ways. Hopefully I don't get bamboozled again and actually enjoy the game.

[Anubis]

I am hooked on Total War: Warhammer 2 atm. Always loved the Warhammer franchise but didn't have a friend that liked it as well to dive into it. Now I do and it's a blast. Being addicted to it since it released, though if you get it make sure to put it on a SSD because the load times are atrocious on a normal HDD. 

I also have Destiny 2 already pre-ordered (through WoW Gold ) but don't plan on playing on release because Warhammer.

[TheKomodo]

I'm also not a fan of the most popular genres these days... MOBA is boring as f@#! and not even remotely interesting, FPS is only fun when it isn't broken and preferably it's co-op rather than pure pvp. MMOs seem like fun in theory but in reality all it is just endless, boring grinding.

Hit the nail on the head there.

While I played WoW intensively for about 5 years, and at the time it generally felt awesome, so many times i'd sit there waiting on stuff, and during those waiting periods i'm telling myself, "what the f**k are you doing with your time", but it was literally more addictive than cigarettes for me.

Now I feel like I wasted a huge part of my life after reading this, i've never played WoW again, and never will:

http://www.mostdangerousgamedesign.com/2013/08/the-psychology-of-rewards-in-games.html

It even made me stop playing WA so much... I feel bad for anyone addicted to DOTA/LoL/Warhammer/WoW etc. I can't lie and say I didn't enjoy some of the storyline though in WoW, but the same thing that is ruining gaming is the same thing ruining the entire world, money and greed, if people weren't so desperate for money, they wouldn't have to make stupid DLC and worry about keeping players hooked for as long as possible, they could just make shorter, more interesting games, and not have to worry about a player abandoning it once completed.

The fact you have to grind in games, is insulting, but of course without it, the companies would make like 50-70% less money off their dumbass consumers.

Some people say "But it helps teach people about hard work paying off" - Umm, SHUT THE F**K UP, no it isn't, it's so they can milk people for as much money as possible.

[Kradie]

You should not try to feel bad for what other people choose to do with their lives. Of course, one could feel bad for you too, for having pity on other's decisions.  It is in my opinion a little condescending view, to look down. Instead it is better to accept and perhaps cherish the choices that people make in their lives. As longest these choices makes people happy, and it doesn't hurt anyone else, why would it be anyone's issue?

It is what Gandalf said “All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”

It is kind of society's fault for lot of us to think this way. People have expectations, if it isn't met, it is disregarded and frowned upon. It is a tabu to be indifferent,. It shouldn't be like this, no one has the right to tell you what you should do and how to live your life. But it is obvious if you're living an unhealthy lifestyle or a life of crime, then that's where someone should reach in.

[TheKomodo]

I don't feel bad for what other people choose to do with their lives, I said I feel bad for anyone addicted to those games.

It's ok to enjoy something, but when you become addicted you lose control, other things in your life become less of a priority, you begin ignoring other things that used to be important to get your fix, and in extreme cases, much worse could happen... That's why I feel bad for them.

Kradie, after our conversation the other day i'm a little disappointed you jumped the gun here lol, but it's ok because your heart is in the right place

[Kradie]

I don't feel bad for what other people choose to do with their lives, I said I feel bad for anyone addicted to those games.

It's ok to enjoy something, but when you become addicted you lose control, other things in your life become less of a priority, you begin ignoring other things that used to be important to get your fix, and in extreme cases, much worse could happen... That's why I feel bad for them.

Kradie, after our conversation the other day i'm a little disappointed you jumped the gun here lol, but it's ok because your heart is in the right place

What if they aren't addicted? Maybe there are actual people that do enjoy Worms, Counter Strike, Dota, and so on. Gaming isn't what it used to be, it is more widely accepted, and even considered as a real sport.
So if you see some people gaming intensely inside, it can be the same as some dudes playing football outside (NOT AMERICAN FOOTBALL).

No need to be disappointed lad, I have no ill intent here, just trying to have a civil debate

[TheKomodo]

What if they aren't addicted?

Then they aren't addicted...?

[Kradie]

What if they aren't addicted?

Then they aren't addicted...?

My point was that, if someone is committed to something, it doesn't necessarily make them addicted.

[TheKomodo]

Then what's your point lol, obviously I realize this...

[Kradie]

Then what's your point lol, obviously I realize this...

I obviously thought you didn't. So I apologize about that.

[Sensei]

My point was that, if someone is committed to something, it doesn't necessarily make them addicted.

Don't try to cover up the truth.
Not 1% of Dota, LoL, WoW, CS... players won't make it to the big league.

Those ppl are addicts and if you see one - try to help.

[Kradie]

If you only prioritize gaming/passion and disregard everything else such as work, bills, food, and day rhythm, then yes that's a serious problem. But if you can moderate it and not let it interfere with your prioritize, then there's nothing wrong with it.

Games isn't a disease, but society, people can be toxic without knowing it. Your motives, action and behavior can affect other people in an unfavorable way, even if it is intent or not. This can lead to unpleasant outcome, such as a divided community.