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January 22, 2019, 11:41 AM

Author Topic: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World  (Read 667 times)

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Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2018, 08:28 AM »
I've put many hours into MHW since my last post. Here's some thoughts:

-I didn't expect an amazing story, but the story in the game is very shallow and stupid IMO (haven't finished the game yet - basing my opinion on what I've seen thus far)
-the graphics consistently 'wow' me
-the game IS grindy, but it doesn't feel like a horrible grind as Komo said earlier... at least when playing with other people.
-playing the game solo is boring IMO and very tedious
-the online multiplayer / matchmaking for MHW on Steam is so shitty and needs fixed badly. frequent disconnects, all sorts of issues trying to play with friends, etc
-two players in the same session wanting to join someone else's quest/investigation/expedition/etc can often not view the same hosted games... it's all screwed up
-requiring all players to be past cut scenes to play a quest co-op is stupid and means that one person either needs to constantly be ahead of the next or sometimes two friends who play together simply have to take some time doing stuff solo because the game is dumb
-certain game mechanics only work sporadically / unpredictably, like mounting monsters
-lots of game information regarding crafting and whatnot is not explained at all in the game and unless you want to waste a lot of time and materials you basically HAVE TO look up information online
-you can only carry one weapon on you at a time, which is totally stupid because some weapons are great vs. certain kinds of monsters and they are almost useless vs. other monsters
-I don't see what upgrading my Palico's gear is good for whatsoever aside from a teeny tiny bit of added damage
-battles against new monsters are fairly interesting at first but after I've killed a certain monster type dozens of times I get sick of it
-I'm no where even close to thinking about 'end game' gear yet but I can already tell it's gonna be a massive grind
-the way stamina works in the game makes no sense in certain ways
-the fact that I have to take time in combat to 'sharpen' my club/hammer is fucking retarded
-the bow in MHW might as well be a melee weapon because the range is shit... anything more than like 20 feet away or so and your attack simply won't hit
-certain monster fights are annoying because of them constantly inflicting status effects like poison, bleed, stun, etc. you have to try to hide somewhere and take care of the condition otherwise you'll die
-as I said before, the AI in terms of 'aggro' in this game is basically the exact opposite of how it is in most other games... monsters will completely ignore 3 people in their face doing loads of damage just to run 100 feet away and bite at someone trying to drink a potion / antidote / whatever


Overall I am pleased with the game but I do find it a bit tedious and I really wish the online multiplayer was far less convoluted and stable. (most importantly stable)

If any Wormers end up getting it for PC I'll be down to play. For now it's just me and a friend of mine playing together when we both have matching schedules, which isn't too often.

Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2018, 09:52 AM »
An update: Finally beat the game, at least progressed through the entire story. This game is such a fucking joke. Seriously, it's SO bad in SO many ways that I honestly can't understand why people get a boner over it.

The storyline is weak as fuck, lots of elements of the game are absolute trash, and once you beat the storyline (with the end fight not being explained at all) you magically jump up like 15 hunter levels and now all there is to do is just grind. Grind for what? Well, not much. The amount of gear that's actually worth a damn is pitifully small, the skills you can get from gear and decorations is small with a lot of it being near pointless, and also a lot of the decorations that you might want for a certain build are completely up to RNG...

I also hate soooo many decisions that the devs made that I'm no longer even mad about it. I've gone from dismayed, to annoyed, to mad, around to thinking it's pretty funny how stupid so many things are.

All in all I wouldn't say it is a god awful game but I wouldn't say it's a good game by any stretch. I'd give it a score of 3.5-4 out of 10. I've also heard that this particular MH game is 'easier' and 'more accessible' than previous titles, and if that's true I can only wonder what is wrong with people for being into such shit. (No offense.)

Seriously, fuck MHW. The only good thing the game has going for it is the aesthetics. The gameplay sucks, the story sucks, the content sucks, the AI is gay as fuck, and lots of gameplay mechanics are intentionally made punitive / awkward. If I owned a physical copy I'd be tempted to take a shit on the disc and take a photo of it.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2018, 10:41 AM »
Everything you say there though is objective and cannot be applied to everyone.

"This sucks, that sucks" and you don't even say why.

Your previous post was MUCH better.

A lot of these things you don't like, aren't problems with the game, rather just things YOU PERSONALLY don't like, and yeah there will be some people who agree with you, but for the most part i've heard great reviews about this game, and most fans of the series are extremely happy with it.

It's just one of those things you either like or not, just like when you try new food, or hear a new song.

Also, and I cannot stress enough how important this is... In gaming, things don't ALWAYS have to make sense, it's fantasy, not reality.

I feel like you need peer reviewed scientific documents, articles, and papers, to even consider accepting a game...
« Last Edit: September 06, 2018, 10:43 AM by TheKomodo »

Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2018, 07:22 AM »
Well of course my opinions are subjective. I didn't get into detail because I didn't feel like typing for an hour.


I am sure that there's probably thousands upon thousands of people who absolutely love MHW, but to me it is a perfect example of how and why gaming sucks these days for the same reasons people talked about in the other thread about league play.

I went to the hospital for a few days and just got out 2 days ago and I'm all fucked up on antibiotics and pain medication, so I'll try to be brief and probably repeat myself a lot:

Pros:

-great graphics
-decent sound but not stellar
-overall art/aesthetics on point
-it just looks cool attacking huge monsters

Cons:

-Not very well optimized for PC.
-Numerous bugs that are slowly being patched, including lots of multiplayer connectivity problems, which is super annoying.
-Very limited depth
-Monsters are largely recycled and share a lot of similar traits and actions
-a lot of the weapons are pure shit and ridiculously slow/awkward to use
-tons of gameplay elements are needlessly punitive and frustrating
-you NEVER have enough money
-most of the gear sucks and the gear set bonuses are a joke in most cases
-you never feel 'powerful' in the game at any point
-combat is boring and repetitive
-the end game is nothing but a grind and relies on a ton of RNG, which wouldn't be so bad if there was actually an incentive to do so... but there isn't
-the storyline is so stupid and weak, and the final fight of the game isn't explained whatsoever and makes no sense... it's just "All of a sudden this big crystal dragon thing appears and you have to kill it!" and then you're a hero and inexplicably go up like 15 hunter ranks
-non-skippable cutscenes
-lots of pointless side quests that are just time-wasting nonsense and don't offer any sort of a substantial reward or incentive for doing them
-intentionally annoying monster AI that TRIES to fuck you over at every turn, rather than being 'natural'
-the bow and arrow weapon has a range of maybe 15-20 feet at most and is useless any further than that
-certain mechanics of the game are not explained whatsoever and unless you look things up online you will likely never figure it out
-there's 'skill' involved in the game, but the skill really revolves around having a knowledge of the bogus AI and how to best prevent it from fucking you over, although there's many cases in which you will be utterly unable to avoid it as though it were decreed by god
-lots and lots of gathering of materials required, which is not even remotely entertaining
-nobody uses the in-game chat at all
-although there are ways to play a specific 'role' in a group, hardly anyone actually does that and everyone is basically just a general purpose DPS character
-the armor and weapons that you can craft from killing a certain monster is usually specifically tailored for being better at killing THAT monster, or being more resilient to it... If you can grind out that many fights then why do you even need gear that makes you more efficient at killing that particular monster? wtf
-certain weapon types in the game are clearly much better than others and although there's 14 to pick from, like half get used most of the time
-fighting a particular monster for the first time is pretty fun but it quickly loses freshness
-the fights are annoying because what happens every single time is that you deal a certain amount of damage, and then it runs away and you can't stop it. you then catch up to it later, deal a certain amount of damage and it runs away... over and over again until it dies or you trap it. It should be called Monster Chaser World


Basically, it looks nice. Everything else about it weak and has no depth, just like many other games released these days.

Oh, and Denuvo.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 07:31 AM by skunk3 »

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2018, 05:40 PM »
Pros:

-great graphics
-decent sound but not stellar
-overall art/aesthetics on point
-it just looks cool attacking huge monsters

I haven't heard the audio from the game yet, but the previous games are among my top 5 games of all time for audio/music, again, are you talking about quality of music, or how much you personally enjoy it?

Also, attacking huge monsters looks, and I quote from somewhere else, "gay as fuck" to some people.


Cons:

-Not very well optimized for PC.

You have to elaborate on this, you can't just say it's not very well optimized.

I can't debate this with you as I haven't played it myself, so I rely on you to give a detailed explanation, and compare it to the console versions, you can't compare it to other PC games because each game can be setup however it wants.

So comparing it to the console release, and previous versions of Monster Hunter, would be appropriate.


-Numerous bugs that are slowly being patched, including lots of multiplayer connectivity problems, which is super annoying.

This, is a REAL problem, these are things that you can't boil down to opinion, these are actual flaws/errors with programming that cause a bad experience for players who actually enjoy the game.

It's pretty much the reason why I haven't bought the game yet.

-Very limited depth

Elaborate please.

Personally I think the Monster Hunter series has more depth than pretty much any other game i've ever saw/played, not only do you have the game, but you have cosplay communities, people designing their own monsters/weapons etc.

-Monsters are largely recycled and share a lot of similar traits and actions

And this is so different than real life people/animals because?

-a lot of the weapons are pure shit and ridiculously slow/awkward to use

That is an opinion, it's how the game was made, and I personally love it.

You can go on YouTube and watch videos of ridiculously good players using every weapon pretty much with perfect timing, timing is CRUCIAL in Monster Hunter.

Some people get a huge feeling of self satisfaction and pride by mastering such slow/heavy weapons, other people get bored and complain, it's obvious which one you are lol.

-tons of gameplay elements are needlessly punitive and frustrating

So is real life, it's only punitive and frustrating if YOU don't enjoy it, so again, this is opinion not fact.

-you NEVER have enough money

I've never had a problem collecting money in the Monster Hunter series, I haven't played Monster Hunter World yet so can't really argue this on my own behalf yet.

However, you could say the same about real life lol.

-most of the gear sucks and the gear set bonuses are a joke in most cases

This is purely opinion, some sets are just for fun, others have useful abilities such as if you paintball an enemy, it flashes when they are weak.

Again, I haven't played the game yet, but if the gear reflects previous games, there is absolutely nothing wrong with the gear, it just seems to not look/do what you want, and that's opinion, not a fact that applies to everyone.

-you never feel 'powerful' in the game at any point

Talking about the series in general here, I wouldn't ever feel more powerful than a monster, by default animals tend to be stronger/more powerful than humans, we are smarter, that's life, and that's what the game tries to replicate.

If you want to feel powerful, go torture some ants with a magnifying glass.

I feel powerful enough when I play the game, as powerful as I need to be at least.

-combat is boring and repetitive

I can't deny that combat is repetitive, but this applies to every single game ever made, you have to follow the rules made by the programmers.

It most definitely isn't boring, or it wouldn't be such a massive selling game that literally MILLIONS of people love, especially in Japan, it's ridiculously popular there!

-the end game is nothing but a grind and relies on a ton of RNG, which wouldn't be so bad if there was actually an incentive to do so... but there isn't

Life is a grind mate, better get used to it, you just gotta find things you enjoy grinding for.

Yes, the game has a high level of RNG especially when it comes down to rewards and skinning.

This is one of those games I am thankful for the RNG, otherwise you would get bored of the game slightly faster if you got everything you desired straight away.

Same reason I am glad my family were poor growing up, had to work for things we want, and feel proud about it when we earn it.

-the storyline is so stupid and weak, and the final fight of the game isn't explained whatsoever and makes no sense... it's just "All of a sudden this big crystal dragon thing appears and you have to kill it!" and then you're a hero and inexplicably go up like 15 hunter ranks

Personally, I love the storylines of Monster Hunter, again, I haven't played Monster Hunter World yet, but will see when I play it.

Every game i've played so far, has a storyline that makes sense, I would be surprised if this didn't, or perhaps you were so angry with the game, you weren't paying attention, or maybe it's just something you didn't understand, or maybe you got so angry with the game, it clouded your judgement, or maybe you just got fed up with the game...

Or maybe, they left it mysterious so people can discuss amongst themselves what's going on, i've saw other games do that.

I personally look forward to it, will see if I agree with you more when I play it, but don't hold your breath could be up to a year before I get the game.

-non-skippable cutscenes

I like this feature, there are always new players to the game, it wouldn't be fair if you already saw the cutscene, but they haven't, and then you skip it, and they don't get to see it.


-lots of pointless side quests that are just time-wasting nonsense and don't offer any sort of a substantial reward or incentive for doing them

Pointless, it's pointless and time-wasting to you because you are expecting something else from the game, again, people who ACTUALLY LOVE this game, can't get enough of side quests, because of cute Palicos, and some people just love trying to 100% a game, so many things people love about this game, that you just don't...

I said before and i'll say it again, this game isn't for you lol.


-intentionally annoying monster AI that TRIES to fuck you over at every turn, rather than being 'natural'

Intentionally annoying monster AI? Seriously? You think the designers of this game made it just to piss YOU off? Are you really that naive? Or stupid?

It's a game, it's fantasy, that's how it was designed, just because you don't like it, doesn't mean it's not good.

And anyway, what the f**k would a natural monster act like? I'm sure you've seen one in real life before??

The old me would be pretty annoyed with you by now, not because you are hating on something greatly based on opinion, but because you are wasting your own f**king time, if you don't like it, don't play it lol, if you enjoy spending your life playing games just to rip on them, you need to find something else in life to enjoy doing man.

I almost feel sorry for you, you can't resist playing the game even though it's pissing you off this much, wasting your own time...

After all it's only £50 or something, hardly the end of the world, pretty sure you've wasted way more money in life on stupid things you didn't need as well.

Just forget about it, and move on?


-the bow and arrow weapon has a range of maybe 15-20 feet at most and is useless any further than that

I'll have to look into this, I never really used the bow and arrow in previous versions.

I do know that there are players who use it with devastating(to the enemy) efficiency though.

-certain mechanics of the game are not explained whatsoever and unless you look things up online you will likely never figure it out

This is one of the best things about this game, you actually have to experiment and figure stuff out yourself.

If you like being spoonfed how to play a game, go play something else?

-there's 'skill' involved in the game, but the skill really revolves around having a knowledge of the bogus AI and how to best prevent it from fucking you over, although there's many cases in which you will be utterly unable to avoid it as though it were decreed by god

Yeah, already covered this a few quotes up.


-lots and lots of gathering of materials required, which is not even remotely entertaining

Yes, you need lots of gathering and materials, but for most of us, it's worth it, and we enjoy doing it.

So again, this is just opinion.

-nobody uses the in-game chat at all

That, actually sucks...

My greatest experience playing Monster Hunter was on the Wii U, using the microphone on the gamepad, strategizing and having a laugh with the other players.

But, that's the world for you, you can go out on the street and most people won't even look at you, unless you are famous or doing something that grabs attention or some sh*t.


-although there are ways to play a specific 'role' in a group, hardly anyone actually does that and everyone is basically just a general purpose DPS character

Yeah, people will play what they enjoy doing most, you are gonna have to find a good balanced team of friends if you want to do that.

I've saw it done before, it's not impossible, again, that's life, people gonna be people and do what they want, you can't blame the game for that.

Pretty sure if they tried to "fix it", it would create another problem.

-the armor and weapons that you can craft from killing a certain monster is usually specifically tailored for being better at killing THAT monster, or being more resilient to it... If you can grind out that many fights then why do you even need gear that makes you more efficient at killing that particular monster? wtf

Finally, you make a good point with actual detail, cause and effect, I don't see it as a bad thing, but you are right!

If you study ancient civilizations, and tribes, you will notice them also, using parts of their kill, to help.

Some use skin, as camoflage, which helps to hunt, some use teeth/claws, as weapons, extracting poison from animals to be used as a weapon and medicine.

Maybe a player enjoys hunting that monster, and wants to do it easier, and beat their own personal record for how fast they can kill something.

I used to play World of Warcraft, I remember 1st playing, doing dungeons etc, and then getting a high level player boost us through the dungeon.

Do you know how satisfying it was the 1st time I was able to boost someone through the Deadmines? It felt powerful and awesome as fuck!

So there, you CAN feel powerful in this game, by getting strong armor, you can help your friends defeat a monster easier.


-certain weapon types in the game are clearly much better than others and although there's 14 to pick from, like half get used most of the time

Better for you, not for everyone.

-fighting a particular monster for the first time is pretty fun but it quickly loses freshness

Again, this boils down to you and your personality, and the things you enjoy in life.

You play Worms over and over and over and over, I don't see you complaining about roping, doing the same moves over and over and over and over for 18 years...

If you enjoy something enough, you will keep doing it, it's very simple.

So yeah, this is opinion that isn't relevant to everyone.

-the fights are annoying because what happens every single time is that you deal a certain amount of damage, and then it runs away and you can't stop it. you then catch up to it later, deal a certain amount of damage and it runs away... over and over again until it dies or you trap it. It should be called Monster Chaser World

Oh yeah, pretty sure if you hunt a real life wild animal, and you break it's leg, it won't try to run away at all, pretty sure it'll just sit there with a seductive look inviting you to come and slay it.


All in all, you've made VERY few actual points that aren't based on opinion.

So yeah, i'm still happy with Monster Hunter, as are most fans.

:)


(This is actually the most time i've ever spent on a post in the history of forums in my life... Lol)

Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2018, 07:52 PM »
You seem to keep comparing real life to a video game for some inexplicable reason.

I'll go through some of the things you've said and respond:

1. If people don't like attacking huge monsters and think it is "gay as fuck" then why even bother wasting their time with such a title, newcomer to the series (like me) or not?

2. About optimization. The UI is crap in various ways (play it for yourself), lots of graphical settings are not available, including bloom, DoF, advanced res options, motion blur, etc.
I haven't played any console versions nor do I even own any consoles anymore because, well, PC master race.

3. By limited depth I mean that the game itself is shallow on all fronts. The story is limited. The gameplay is limited. The amount of unique monsters you fight is limited. The level of uniqueness for each monster is limited. The gameplay literally doesn't change from the start aside from having access to a couple of extra buffs along the way, and slightly better gear, which really doesn't matter because unless you go back to low rank areas you never feel that increase in power at all... if anything you constantly feel more and more behind in power as the game progresses unless you intentionally don't progress through the story mode and instead grind out the same quests/investigations/events over and over and over again, but even then it barely helps. The game is eye candy really and has nothing to offer aside from that. Younger gamers probably love it but I of course am from the generation by which a game had to have some substance. It is very similar to a MMO, and I fucking hate MMOs. Grinding is NOT my thing.

4. The fact that out of the 14 weapons available in the game, you typically see half or less of them actually used by people goes to show you that the balance is all wrong. Where is the incentive to practice with a weapon that is slow and clumsy to use when you can be just as effective with another weapon that is far more efficient? Also, not only are these heavy weapons slow to use, if you do whiff an attack (which happens often regardless of skill level) then the weapon gets stuck in the ground, which costs precious seconds, or there must be a slow animation in which the character has to hoist it back up into the air. You can get away with using some of these shittier weapons against certain monsters but against other monsters you might as well not even waste your time because they will be well out of harm's way by the time you can hit them. For me, slightly lower base damage and far more attacks actually landing and doing damage is better than a weapon with high base damage, but is slow and rarely connects, and this isn't because I'm some incompetent scrub who can't play video games... it's a simple observation of efficiency.

5. Many gameplay elements in MHW are needlessly punitive and make it far less fun. At best these punitive elements add more stress and drama to the situation but at worst they are a kick to the balls straight from the game devs and serve no purpose whatsoever aside from artificially inflating the difficulty of the game. For example, in one area there is a monster called Odogaron that spawns in certain spots and the monster itself is tough enough, but on top of that there's this toxic gas in the area that is constantly doing damage over time, and on top of that the monster inflict bleeding damage which is more damage over time. The way to stop bleeding? Crouch for like 3 seconds or use a certain item. Either way you basically have to stand still for a few seconds mid-fight, and if anything even barely touches you, that process is canceled and you have to do it again. On top of that, there are often other smaller monsters that swarm you while fighting the Odogaron (that can also inflict paralysis), so it basically is just layer upon layer of cheapness that you have to deal with while playing a game with shallow, boring combat. No thanks.

6. I don't know anything about any other MH game but in MHW you're always broke or next to broke unless you never forge or upgrade gear. The only way to not be broke is to grind and kill the same monsters you've already killed a hundred times just to get enough money to become slightly more powerful/resilient... and as I said before, I hate games that rely on grinding like that. There's no fun in it and it's just a time sink of you doing the same things over and over again. For many that's probably not an issue but for me I have better things to do with my life.

7. Until you hit end game grind-time you always feel horribly undergeared for whatever challenge you are presented with. Obviously the monsters in a game such as this are supposed to invoke a sense of power and ferocity, but once again, comparing this to real life is about as pointless as comparing anime to real life. Now that I have beaten the game I feel basically no incentive to keep grinding at all any my interest in the game has sharply declined.

8. The combat is extremely boring, and I don't care how popular the game is. You basically have two attacks and sometimes a special attack. You just spam the same thing over and over again while dodging out of the way until the monster is dead. There's no creativity involved at all. There's no real skill involved IMO either. You just wait for the monster to telegraph their move and get out of harm's way... then go back in and continue hacking. You just continue this cycle over and over until you win. It's boring, brute force, repetitive gameplay with no subtlety and very little individuality. There's lots of games with far less repetitive gameplay out there, or at the very least that version of repetitive gameplay is more cerebral.

9. The storyline of MHW could take up maybe 2 printed pages of text at the very most. It might as well be non-existent.

10. If you are playing a quest that you haven't done yet, you can't even join someone else or have someone join you until you go through the cutscene... so if you and a friend are playing through the game together, there are tons of times in which you guys will have to separately start quests on your own until you trigger the cutscene, watch it through, then cancel the quest and restart it so you can both attempt it together. It's idiotic and not like, say, Borderlands at all. I don't mind unskippable cutscenes THE FIRST TIME. However, after I've seen it once I want the option of skipping. I hate being forced to watch something I've already seen several times. (This is why I love how one of the W:A patches let us boot straight to the main screen so we didn't have to skip through shit to go online.)

11. Life is a grind in certain ways I suppose but once again, not relevant to this game. The older I get the more I value my free time. When I play a game I don't want to feel like I'm wasting time. I never feel as though Worms is wasted time. Games like MHW on the other hand = lots of wasted time. Games that involve a high degree of grinding simply just aren't good games, and I say this as a RPG nerd.

12. I haven't touched the game since beating the main storyline and seeing what the game has to offer. It seems to me that you're actually more upset about all of this than I am. I am just here sharing my opinions about a recent, high-profile game in an appropriate sub-forum and you're challenging me at every turn as though hearing the opinions of another is so abrasive to you that you feel compelled to defend it and insult me in the process, which is precisely what you're doing.

13. Basic game elements/mechanics shouldn't be kept a mystery from players. That is stupid. Of course there are aspects of games that could be discovered as you play through it, but to simply just not explain how something works intentionally or due to oversight? Come on man. Supporting that kinda dumb shit makes no sense. MHW is a game that REQUIRES players to look up things on the internet all of the time because you simply don't get the info you need in game. That's just bad design.

14. You CAN 'specialize' to a degree in the game but your options are seriously limited and to be actually effective and well suited for that role you want to play, it's not something you can really attempt to do until you are well into that end game grind phase... and by that point it's like why even bother? You've done everything you can do in the game. Everyone has their own tastes but I can't justify grinding unless there's a substantial and clear reward for doing so and my time is worth more than that.

15. Worms is skill and strategy based and ever-changing. You can see your gains clearly, and they come from actual skill development and not grinding. You can know exactly how and why you're doing better or worse, and the game doesn't Jew you at every turn. If you fuck up it's your fault. There's an actual reward for persevering in Worms and it takes more brain power. It's infinitely more enjoyable than Monster Hunter.

16. When EVERY monster runs away at a certain point EVERY time and you have to chase it down and do the same thing over and over it's not realism. It's just an artificial game mechanic implemented to make fights last way longer than they should. Sure, in real life some animals might run away when injured, but others will fight to the death and not even think of running away. I would be fine with the running away if it made sense, like it was in reacting to a particularly devastating burst of damage and it was afraid for its life, but when every monster is programmed to run away after taking "X" amount of damage and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it from doing so and you are FORCED to chase it down many times over, it's lame as fuck. At first I thought it was kinda cool but as with many aspects of MHW, it quickly lost its novelty. MHW is a flashy, good looking game that is utterly hollow on the inside. Also, how could my points not be based upon opinion? Isn't that what discussion about a game typically is, aside from actual game-breaking bugs/defects? Game reviews are just that - opinions. I'm not solving an equation here or offering a philosophical proof. 

« Last Edit: September 07, 2018, 07:56 PM by skunk3 »

Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2018, 07:53 PM »
You seem to keep comparing real life to a video game for some inexplicable reason.

I'll go through some of the things you've said and respond:

1. If people don't like attacking huge monsters and think it is "gay as fuck" then why even bother wasting their time with such a title, newcomer to the series (like me) or not?

2. About optimization. The UI is crap in various ways (play it for yourself), lots of graphical settings are not available, including bloom, DoF, advanced res options, motion blur, etc.
I haven't played any console versions nor do I even own any consoles anymore because, well, PC master race.

3. By limited depth I mean that the game itself is shallow on all fronts. The story is limited. The gameplay is limited. The amount of unique monsters you fight is limited. The level of uniqueness for each monster is limited. The gameplay literally doesn't change from the start aside from having access to a couple of extra buffs along the way, and slightly better gear, which really doesn't matter because unless you go back to low rank areas you never feel that increase in power at all... if anything you constantly feel more and more behind in power as the game progresses unless you intentionally don't progress through the story mode and instead grind out the same quests/investigations/events over and over and over again, but even then it barely helps. The game is eye candy really and has nothing to offer aside from that. Younger gamers probably love it but I of course am from the generation by which a game had to have some substance. It is very similar to a MMO, and I fucking hate MMOs. Grinding is NOT my thing.

4. The fact that out of the 14 weapons available in the game, you typically see half or less of them actually used by people goes to show you that the balance is all wrong. Where is the incentive to practice with a weapon that is slow and clumsy to use when you can be just as effective with another weapon that is far more efficient? Also, not only are these heavy weapons slow to use, if you do whiff an attack (which happens often regardless of skill level) then the weapon gets stuck in the ground, which costs precious seconds, or there must be a slow animation in which the character has to hoist it back up into the air. You can get away with using some of these shittier weapons against certain monsters but against other monsters you might as well not even waste your time because they will be well out of harm's way by the time you can hit them. For me, slightly lower base damage and far more attacks actually landing and doing damage is better than a weapon with high base damage, but is slow and rarely connects, and this isn't because I'm some incompetent scrub who can't play video games... it's a simple observation of efficiency.

5. Many gameplay elements in MHW are needlessly punitive and make it far less fun. At best these punitive elements add more stress and drama to the situation but at worst they are a kick to the balls straight from the game devs and serve no purpose whatsoever aside from artificially inflating the difficulty of the game. For example, in one area there is a monster called Odogaron that spawns in certain spots and the monster itself is tough enough, but on top of that there's this toxic gas in the area that is constantly doing damage over time, and on top of that the monster inflict bleeding damage which is more damage over time. The way to stop bleeding? Crouch for like 3 seconds or use a certain item. Either way you basically have to stand still for a few seconds mid-fight, and if the anything even barely touches you, that process is canceled and you have to do it again. On top of that, there are often other smaller monsters that swarm you while fighting the Odogaron, so it basically is just layer upon layer of cheapness that you have to deal with while playing a game with shallow, boring combat. No thanks.

6. I don't know anything about any other MH game but in MHW you're always broke or next to broke unless you never forge or upgrade gear. The only way to not be broke is to grind and kill the same monsters you've already killed a hundred times just to get enough money to become slightly more powerful/resilient... and as I said before, I hate games that rely on grinding like that. There's no fun in it and it's just a time sink of you doing the same things over and over again. For many that's probably not an issue but for me I have better things to do with my life.

7. Until you hit end game grind-time you always feel horribly undergeared for whatever challenge you are presented with. Obviously the monsters in a game such as this are supposed to invoke a sense of power and ferocity, but once again, comparing this to real life is about as pointless as comparing anime to real life. Now that I have beaten the game I feel basically no incentive to keep grinding at all any my interest in the game has sharply declined.

8. The combat is extremely boring, and I don't care how popular the game is. You basically have two attacks and sometimes a special attack. You just spam the same thing over and over again while dodging out of the way until the monster is dead. There's no creativity involved at all. There's no real skill involved IMO either. You just wait for the monster to telegraph their move and get out of harm's way... then go back in and continue hacking. You just continue this cycle over and over until you win. It's boring, brute force, repetitive gameplay with no subtlety and very little individuality. There's lots of games with far less repetitive gameplay out there, or at the very least that version of repetitive gameplay is more cerebral.

9. The storyline of MHW could take up maybe 2 printed pages of text at the very most. It might as well be non-existent.

10. If you are playing a quest that you haven't done yet, you can't even join someone else or have someone join you until you go through the cutscene... so if you and a friend are playing through the game together, there are tons of times in which you guys will have to separately start quests on your own until you trigger the cutscene, watch it through, then cancel the quest and restart it so you can both attempt it together. It's idiotic and not like, say, Borderlands at all. I don't mind unskippable cutscenes THE FIRST TIME. However, after I've seen it once I want the option of skipping. I hate being forced to watch something I've already seen several times. (This is why I love how one of the W:A patches let us boot straight to the main screen so we didn't have to skip through shit to go online.)

11. Life is a grind in certain ways I suppose but once again, not relevant to this game. The older I get the more I value my free time. When I play a game I don't want to feel like I'm wasting time. I never feel as though Worms is wasted time. Games like MHW on the other hand = lots of wasted time. Games that involve a high degree of grinding simply just aren't good games, and I say this as a RPG nerd.

12. I haven't touched the game since beating the main storyline and seeing what the game has to offer. It seems to me that you're actually more upset about all of this than I am. I am just here sharing my opinions about a recent, high-profile game in an appropriate sub-forum and you're challenging me at every turn as though hearing the opinions of another is so abrasive to you that you feel compelled to defend it and insult me in the process, which is precisely what you're doing.

13. Basic game elements/mechanics shouldn't be kept a mystery from players. That is stupid. Of course there are aspects of games that could be discovered as you play through it, but to simply just not explain how something works intentionally or due to oversight? Come on man. Supporting that kinda dumb shit makes no sense. MHW is a game that REQUIRES players to look up things on the internet all of the time because you simply don't get the info you need in game. That's just bad design.

14. You CAN 'specialize' to a degree in the game but your options are seriously limited and to be actually effective and well suited for that role you want to play, it's not something you can really attempt to do until you are well into that end game grind phase... and by that point it's like why even bother? You've done everything you can do in the game. Everyone has their own tastes but I can't justify grinding unless there's a substantial and clear reward for doing so and my time is worth more than that.

15. Worms is skill and strategy based and ever-changing. You can see your gains clearly, and they come from actual skill development and not grinding. You can know exactly how and why you're doing better or worse, and the game doesn't Jew you at every turn. If you fuck up it's your fault. There's an actual reward for persevering in Worms and it takes more brain power. It's infinitely more enjoyable than Monster Hunter.

16. When EVERY monster runs away at a certain point EVERY time and you have to chase it down and do the same thing over and over it's not realism. It's just an artificial game mechanic implemented to make fights last way longer than they should. Sure, in real life some animals might run away when injured, but others will fight to the death and not even think of running away. I would be fine with the running away if it made sense, like it was in reacting to a particularly devastating burst of damage and it was afraid for its life, but when every monster is programmed to run away after taking "X" amount of damage and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it from doing so and you are FORCED to chase it down many times over, it's lame as fuck. At first I thought it was kinda cool but as with many aspects of MHW, it quickly lost its novelty. MHW is a flashy, good looking game that is utterly hollow on the inside. Also, how could my points not be based upon opinion? Isn't that what discussion about a game typically is, aside from actual game-breaking bugs/defects? Game reviews are just that - opinions. I'm not solving an equation here or offering a philosophical proof.

Offline Sensei

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2018, 10:17 PM »
Wow

Offline WTF-8

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2018, 03:16 AM »
a lot of the weapons are pure shit and ridiculously slow/awkward to use
it's how the game was made

~~~~

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #24 on: September 08, 2018, 04:30 AM »
I can't be bothered spending another 5-10 minutes setting up and preparing quotes so will just answer with numbers relative to what you posted:

1. I, personally, don't think the game is gay as f**k, because one, it doesn't make you a homosexual to play a game, and I think it's pretty awesome!

I just said this to point out sometimes it just comes down to opinion.




2. Personally, i've never ever cared much for graphics settings, i'll optimize it to the best the game allows, and i'm happy enough.

I am more interested in artstyle, scenery, character design etc.

This is really just opinion, the graphics in MHW are clearly more impressive than Worms Armageddon, yet we love that.



3. You keep saying "limited", why is that such a bad thing?

I don't agree with anything you've said here, I feel the opposite, and know plenty people on Facebook groups who feel the opposite way from you as well.

So yeah, again, opinion.



4. In life, people do things they enjoy, more often than things they don't enjoy.

Who cares if some weapons are used more than the others? Get over it already!

I know players who use every weapon in the game, I know players who use only 1/2 weapons.

I don't directly intend to sound offensive, but you are obviously not as good at games as you think you are.

Just because your timing isn't good enough NOT to miss, doesn't mean nobody else can do it.

Go watch some YouTube videos of Masters of the series, and I mean players who have put in 10,000+ hours plus of Monster Hunter games.

Sorry, but you just aren't good enough yet, spend hundreds, or thousands of hours practising, then come back to me with this opinion.



5. One mans treasure is another mans trash.

It's only punitive if you don't enjoy it, that is so obvious I shouldn't even have to say that to you...

Timing and memorizing patterns/routine, is crucial in this game.

You obviously just don't enjoy this style of gaming, that doesn't make the game bad just because it doesn't suit all your personal requirements.



6. I've never had a problem making money in any Monster Hunter game.

People who have a job, work 8+ hours a day, 5+ days a week, to make a measly amount of money, just enough to survive.

Let me share a few of my favourite George Carlin quotes with you here:

"Most people work just hard enough not to get fired and get paid just enough money not to quit."

"Hard work is a misleading term, physical effort & long hours do not constitude hard work, hard work is when someone pays you to do something you'd rather not be doing, anytime you'd rather be doing something other than the thing you're doing, you're doing hard work."

This is also aimed at your #5 "punitive" comments.



7. I've never felt under geared in any Monster Hunter game unless I joined a hunt with a much higher rank than i'm supposed to.

It seems to me you were so fed up with the game in general, you couldn't wait to finish it.

Most people I know who love this game, take their time, explore everything, collect everything, so they are carefully stockpiling supplies and gear.

If you try and rush through a game that's designed like this, you WILL feel the way you do.

They love preparing for the next level up, they make sure they have everything they need first, it's part of the fun for them...

So yeah, the fact you say you have completed the game and your interest has declined, doesn't surprise me.



8. Ok, what you done wrong here is state "the combat is extremely boring" as aif that's a fact that everyone on the planet should agree with, whereas you should have said "I think the combat is extremely boring".

If you find it boring, the people who find it fun, don't care lol.

If you wanna play other games that suit your interests, that isn't a crime ;)



9. The storyline of Worms Armageddon can be summed up in 1 sentence, we still love the game!

I don't mean to sound offensive right now, but I bet many people would find the storyline of Monster Hunter world, more fascinating than your entire life story, as they would mine, or many other people.

You can't force someone to genuinely enjoy something, don't even try, not even with yourself!



10. I honestly don't see that as a problem really.

Afaik in previous Monster Hunter games, all players must choose to skip the cutscene in order for it to be skipped, I think this is perfectly fair.

If, everyone has already saw the cutscene, or want to skip it, but can't, then yes, that is a problem and should be addressed with the developers.



11. Again, I refer you to my George Carlin quotes earlier in the post.

I don't see you as a gaming nerd, as much as I see you as a gaming critic.

Even I realize, my opinion about the gaming industry today, that it sucks, is just an opinion, and doesn't relate to everyone else in the world.

DLC, microtransactions, P2W etc, are all lame to me, but other people enjoy that, and if other people are happy doing it, why the f**k should I let that bother me? I can easily just do something else or play games I do enjoy lol.

And yes, it most certainly is relative to the game, because playing a game, even online, is still part of your life, it's still part of the universe and time and matter.

Don't be so naive.



12. I don't care if you like the game or not.

What I do care about, is people passing off opinions as facts, which is exactly what you are doing. The words you are using, and the way you are using them are the reason I am here opposing you.

Think about that?

I love Monster Hunter, why would I be upset about someone not enjoying it? That doesn't affect my passion for it.

Besides, you came on here insulting the game to begin with, lashing out on things YOU personally don't enjoy, am I not allowed to do the same thing, but with an opposite experience and opinion of what is good/bad?

People like us, debating like this, help other people to make decisions about buying a product, that's a good thing, not a bad thing!

I actually have to thank you because without your knowledge and review of some bugs/connection issues, I would have bought this game, and been angry about the some of the issues, so you saved me some money at this moment that I was able to use on something else, I actually chose to spent the £50 I saved on this game, to visit a nice girl, so thanks :P



13.  Wow.... Sometimes you should take a step back and think...

How do you think all that information about Monster Hunter got online in the 1st place?

The answer would be, people who actually love the game who spent countless hours experimenting and testing, discovering everything that was possible in the game.

These are the kind of intelligent, passionate, and disciplined people I enjoy associating myself with in life.

These are like the scientists of the gaming world, the people who get sh*t done!



14. Yeah fair enough, we get the point, your time is valuable, same goes for everyone else too.

Spend your time doing things you enjoy, I don't blame you :)

You just need to try harder to find games you enjoy, it's not a crime to be picky about the things you want in life, I actually admire that about you.



15. First off, that's pretty f**king bad of you to say "Jew you", I know some jewish people, including members of this community, and they are pretty nice guys! Using that term as if being a Jew is stereotyping in a racist way, and if you act like this again, I will use my powers as a moderator of this forum to clean your post up, if you do it again after that, i'll delete your entire post.

I have a very open sense of humour, but keep sh*t like that private please.

To be honest mate, the AI in Worms is pretty retarded as well, surely you've played a BnG against CPU-5?

You are comparing a game that focuses on PvP, against one that focuses on PvE.

Without the ability to play against other people on WA, i'd never have found it anywhere near as interesting.

If MH was focused on PvP, I wouldn't enjoy it anywhere near as much.

WA is my favourite PvP game of all time, MH, WoW and Zelda are my favourite PvE games of all time.

I don't have the same struggles as you when playing MH games, I usually always know what I am doing, if I ever get stuck, I keep at it, trying different sh*t until I figure it out, that's part of the fun for me, obviously this isn't something you enjoy doing in life, that isn't a game flaw or anything though...

Please explain to me the reward for persevering in Worms, other than winning $10 or something in one of Kinslayers Tournaments lol.

There are also speedruns and world records for Monster Hunter, I would imagine if you love the game enough to participate in that stuff, and managed to break a world record, that would feel pretty f**king rewarding and have tons of groupies desperate to spawn your child!



16. If every monster runs away at a certain point every time, and you have to chase it down, doesn't that tell you that's the way it's supposed to be lol?

This quote is pretty f**king stupid:

Quote
Sure, in real life some animals might run away when injured, but others will fight to the death and not even think of running away.

Q: You know what happens if you don't run away from a superior being that wants you dead and you are completely overpowered?

A: You die.

The monster runs away, to try and sleep/heal, then it'll try to fight you again.

Also, many species in real life, don't even understand the concept of death, they can tolerate an incredible amount of pain just because of that fact.

You are actually some methods you can use to prevent monsters from running away, but honestly, go figure that out yourself.



As for this:


Quote
At first I thought it was kinda cool but as with many aspects of MHW, it quickly lost its novelty.

I've felt this way about many games/films, it's ok man, it's part of being human, trial and error.

The best thing you can do, is do more research into a game and find ways to access games in a way that helps you realize if you will enjoy it or not.








« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 04:34 AM by TheKomodo »

Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2018, 04:38 AM »
No, in MHW you literally cannot prevent a monster from running away. You just can't. You can trap it for a very short period of time but until it is super weak and close to death you can't ACTUALLY trap it completely.

As I said before, this is the only MH game I have experience with so I know absolutely nothing about the other games. They might be better. I dunno. All I know is that this game has no depth. At first it seems pretty awesome but you quickly realize it's all window dressing. The game LOOKS cool and that's it. Graphics mean very little to me. I want substance, and MHW just doesn't have it.

As far as using the various weapons goes, I'm a good gamer and can use anything if I wanted to. There's just no point, however, it dedicating myself towards becoming great with a weapon that sucks due to slowness/clumsiness/etc. It comes down to dps and a little bit of debuffing and the more often you hit, the more damage you're going to do, period. I've tried out all of the weapons extensively in the training area and there's some that are simply crap compared to the others and if you had played the game you would see for yourself how hardly anyone uses those crappier weapons. Learning to play really well with a bad weapon is like learning how to throw a bent frisbee really well. It's stupid and pointless.

Anyway, long story short, this game just isn't my cup of tea. Played it, beat it, done with it. 

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2018, 04:49 AM »
No, in MHW you literally cannot prevent a monster from running away. You just can't. You can trap it for a very short period of time but until it is super weak and close to death you can't ACTUALLY trap it completely.

I am not sure about how much you can carry in MHW, but in all the ones I have played you could take 2 traps into the game with you, with the materials to build another 3 traps, if all 4 players carry maximum load, that's 20 traps.

You can capture/kill a monster before it even runs away once if you and your team are good enough!

Also, if you have flash bombs, sonic bombs, stun shots for the guns etc, you can CC a monster even more!

So don't lie to people please, do your research before making claims, this is the kind of thing that pisses me off, not the fact you don't enjoy the game, you are spreading FALSE information to potential fans of the franchise!



As I said before, this is the only MH game I have experience with so I know absolutely nothing about the other games. They might be better. I dunno. All I know is that this game has no depth. At first it seems pretty awesome but you quickly realize it's all window dressing. The game LOOKS cool and that's it. Graphics mean very little to me. I want substance, and MHW just doesn't have it.

Jesus dude, don't you get the point already, stop stating this as f**king facts! Please use words properly in context!

Say things like:

"I think"
"My experience was"
"What annoyed me was"
"I thought this could be improved on"
"I felt there was a lack of"

Stop passing off opinions as facts please!!!!

As far as using the various weapons goes, I'm a good gamer and can use anything if I wanted to. There's just no point, however, it dedicating myself towards becoming great with a weapon that sucks due to slowness/clumsiness/etc. It comes down to dps and a little bit of debuffing and the more often you hit, the more damage you're going to do, period. I've tried out all of the weapons extensively in the training area and there's some that are simply crap compared to the others and if you had played the game you would see for yourself how hardly anyone uses those crappier weapons. Learning to play really well with a bad weapon is like learning how to throw a bent frisbee really well. It's stupid and pointless.

That's the whole point of having a variation of weapons!

If nobody on the entire planet used a specific weapon, THEN there might be a problem, but just because some things in life aren't used as often as others, doesn't mean they suck!

Different weapons are more effective at different things, and I promise you, there is an advantage to every weapon in the game, especially when upgrading down the weapon family trees!

Weapons can be upgraded to have specific sharpness, specific buffs which help on different animals.

I assure you, every weapon in the game, every item in the game, every monster in the game, EVERYTHING has a purpose, you just don't see it!

Anyway, long story short, this game just isn't my cup of tea. Played it, beat it, done with it.

Yeah, fair enough, life goes on!



Edit - You are a good gamer, but definitely not a great one! At least not from what I have saw/heard.

What game are you best at? Do you have any footage of you playing/competing against the best in the world and actually winning or raising the bar? I highly doubt it, but if you do, please show me, cuz honestly, you just sound like the next average gamer who is clever enough to beat most games, but has never mastered anything, ever.




Edit 2 - I was actually speaking to a Warthunder Squadron member who I just found out is a Monster Hunter fan, who has been playing Monster Hunter World, he informed me about the UI, there are issues, but not what you pointed out, i'm too tired to type out a lot right now but it boils down to because it's a console to PC port, the consoles have a better UI than the PC.

Which I guess bothers a lot of people, and is a legitimate issue, but still based on what he said doesn't actually affect gameplay, so still doesn't bother me as much as it would if it affected gameplay.

But yeah, it's still an issue!
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 07:16 AM by TheKomodo »

Offline skunk3

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2018, 09:32 AM »
You could theoretically prevent a monster from running away *if* you were playing in a team of four (which I don't - I play with one friend) and *if* everyone could damage the monster enough so that it dies before it has a chance to run away, but as far as I can tell, traps won't work on a monster after it begins running. They just walk right over it unless I was seeing a bug. Also, until you have hit end game and have grinded a lot for the best DPS gear you can get, the odds of killing a monster without it running away even once are slim to none, especially the more powerful ones. So yeah, theoretically it is possible to not have to deal with monsters running away from you constantly but that's only gonna happen if you're in a 4 man group with everybody heavily geared out. In my experience monsters typically run away at least twice before dying and the only way I know of to prevent that would be to be in a full squad with end game gear going HAM on the monster.

Also, I am not claiming that my opinions are facts. My opinions are clearly just that - opinions. You are the one that has things twisted here, not me. I've explained why I believe the game has no depth and it is of course my opinion because we're talking about a subjective issue here, although TBH I think that a lot of my criticisms are actually based upon objective facts about the game. Just because you don't like my opinions that doesn't mean that I am claiming them to be gospel fact, nor am I saying that everyone has to agree with me.

I am also aware that every weapon has a purpose of sorts but certain weapons are more 'general purpose' than others, which in turn makes them more effective against a much wider variety of monsters. Therefore, they are 'better.' Sure, certain weapon types might be incrementially more effective against a specific monster, but why bother going through the effort of forging and upgrading a weapon of that type when you can be nearly just as effective with a weapon you already have, a weapon that is effective against lots of monsters? It's just added grinding for no real benefit, and that to me isn't time well spent, nor fun. For some gamers that might be fun, but for me it isn't. I found about six of them to be okay, with 4 being really good, and apparently other people seem to agree because when I play with randoms they are using one of those six the vast majority of the time.

As far as your trollbait bullshit at the end there, I'm not even going to dignify with that a response. Get a life, Komo. Seriously. Stop insulting people. Stop acting superior to others, bragging, and just fucking grow up man. Someone needs to tell you this shit. You're a pariah and everyone is tired of your b.s. including myself. I hate to have to resort to talking to you like this but act the fuck up and get verbally smacked the fuck up, chump. I don't know how many times I have seen you brag about yourself (to the point of virtual masturbation) and insult other people. It's getting so old and although I am kinda immune to your particular brand of toxicity simply due to being around you for so many years, sometimes enough is just enough. We are roughly the same age but you act like a petulant man-child. The funny part is that I have defended you SO MANY times when people have talked shit about you either directly to me or just generally. No more. Maybe when you reach twelve thousand forum posts you'll finally have matured.




« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 09:47 AM by skunk3 »

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2018, 09:54 PM »
So I finally bought this game a few days ago, got it for only £27! Score!

It's everything I hoped it would be :)

I only have 2 minor problems:

The original Monster Hunter theme song is not on the main screen or intro anymore :(

When doing assignments, especially when it's exploring a new world location, along the way you are sometimes suddenly confronted by large monsters that you must hunt, so you are totally unprepared and can't select the right gear for the job, but luckily you can go back to Astera and that becomes a quest.

But man, LOVING this game!