I took such a long time making this post that Senator posted again, although this post answers that anyway.
I think regulating schemes is the most important part.
I agree, this is the big issue that needs a healthy solution, one that accommodates the base idea yet also doesn't end up having unnecessary alternatives to schemes.
Question: Would there be a limit on the total# of schemes available, let's say, the system would support a maximum of 250 schemes? Would that number be higher or lower?
Then it does have to do with standings or am I missing something? We don't know which schemes will give you points for top 8 schemes standings until the season is over. A scheme can drop out of top 8 at the very end and a player who had a lot of points from that scheme can lose a lot of points and drop out of playoffs as well.
Yes, this is one reason why i'd prefer individual scheme playoffs for the top 8 popular schemes.
Overall there are a few reasons why I think it's better
I'd like to address each of these points individually.
A few other points:
- let's say TTRR is in top 8 schemes. Why would I accept a TTRR game vs Sbaffo as if it was a mutual pick when I'm most likely going to lose and it will affect my chances of getting in the top 8 schemes playoffs? If we are going to have all-around playoffs, people should be allowed to look for games the old way "top 8 schemes any1" so that both players can pick 1 scheme.
First off, I share that feeling. On top of not wanting to pick a specific scheme vs a specific person out of fear of losing, for me personally if I enjoy the scheme i'll play anyone, if I don't like the scheme i'll simply never play it, unless over time feelings change.
Now, personally I don't want Allround Playoffs the way MonkeyIsland suggests, however one solution to that problem could be to lock in the PO schemes halfway through the current season.
- top 8 schemes can be some weird mix like only strategic schemes + roping schemes and no artillery schemes at all. Allround League and previous all-around leagues have tried to cover most of the relevant skill sets needed in WA (while including only schemes that are popular enough). What's the point of winning top 8 schemes season? The point is no longer showing the best all-around player of WA because not all relevant skill sets are tested.
So, i'm completely happy with the top 8 schemes that get picked for the Playoffs being the 8 most popular for that specific Season. Although that would be if it were individually based, as in 8 separate Playoffs for 8 separate schemes.
Personally speaking, I don't believe any League has ever shown who the best all-round player of WA is for several reasons:
- There has never been a complete selection of schemes in any one League, ever. Only the most popular ones.
- Even for the most popular schemes, every League has had it's flaws/loopholes:
- In the earlier days of WACL/cl2k there was DoN - Double or Nothing:
- This means if you were good enough at one scheme, you would never lose, accumulating 50:0 records.
- Players can avoid each other:
- This could be natural or planned avoidance.
- Players can manipulate the system knowing they can lose to the top 1-10 players, however beat everyone else pretty easily
- Players can avoid certain schemes:
- You can ask in #AG "TUS Elite anyone?" and play only this scheme.
- Avoiding the schemes your opponent is good at, knowing they will play anyway giving you a better chance to win.
- Players are free to analyze games to discover which scheme they gain the most points in:
- This can be manipulated to achieve incredibly high points overall, while avoiding many of the best players in each scheme.
- Players don't have to master every allround scheme as it was always a Bo3 or Bo5 format:
- As long as you master 3 schemes, just make sure you play and win enough games during the season to get first pick.
- Standings would look different if everyone plays everyone the same number of games.
To be honest, I could go on for hours about why the systems we've used have always shown unrealistic standings and are so easy to manipulate. An example of unrealistic standings is the fact I done it myself by always picking BnG due to the fact i'd refuse to play schemes I didn't like or simply hand out free wins by either just telling them to report their pick, or by playing deliberately self-destructive to make the game faster.
Yet I still topped the "Allround" standings for my first Season while literally throwing games when opponents picked strategic schemes like Team17 and Elite, Shopper or TTRR cuz I didn't enjoy those, and still made it to the Playoffs with a 81% win ratio, which I didn't even bother playing:
Now, you might think, "But his overall rating there sucks", yet at the end of ERA 1 for TUS, I finished 50th out of 1543 players and look much better than the truth if you dug deep enough:
This might sound like a brag, however it's not, it's to point out how easy it is to manipulate the allround standings. I managed that pretty much all because of BnG, i'm pretty sure at least 75% of my total games were BnG as half my opponents would pick BnG just to try and end my winning streak.
The point is, if you were good enough at one scheme you could do this if you outright refused to play certain schemes, if you were good enough at several schemes although carefully pick your games you could do this.
Interesting fact, Random00 only once achieved #1 in a Season once.
It must sound like I hate Random00 or something, he's actually a really nice guy lol, and obviously he's one of the greatest allround players there is. Yet, do you honestly believe he would have achieved this if he played the very best players more often:
What i'm saying is, Senator, in the entire history of this game, we've never truly showed an accurate depiction of who the best allround players are. Only ever a very rough estimate based on people picking and choosing to play other people based on their own agenda, there were even lots of people who won many games against good players yet never reported their wins.
Now, most of this is just my opinion, for other people the system is good enough, they are just happy to compete against other skilled players, and that's great, TUS has been the best League that ever existed in WA in my opinion.
The reason i've went into such weird details is to try and show why "allround" isn't really as big a deal as people make it out to be these days, i'd say there are at least about 100 league worthy schemes that we could be playing. However NOBODY is going to master all of those and play some playoffs which is like Bo99 lol.
So yeah, I support single scheme Playoffs so the most popular 8 schemes each Season have their own Playoffs, survival of the fittest, you could still show a collection of results for all those playoffs as some sort of allround thing if you want I guess?
- a player can get in the top 8 schemes playoffs and then have to play a scheme he has never played before. Players who get in Allround League playoffs usually have played all the schemes at some point so there are no such free wins even though a TTRR game between a good roper and a default player can look like a free win.
I definitely agree with this, and yet another reason why I support single scheme Playoffs.
Another approach is to add only schemes that have already shown to be "league-worthy" (in cups and such) but were not added to Free League because Free League had too many schemes.
This is the biggest issue we face, how do we manage this so it doesn't get out of control?
I am more than happy to offer my time and tedious persistence to help filter through all schemes we have and find those which are League worthy, although i'd refuse to do it alone, a team of people representing all types of players would be great.
I'd be happy to have a few hundred different standings to be honest, the question is how much work would that be for MonkeyIsland to code and how much would it cost to run the server?
I'd be more than happy to try out new schemes competitively knowing they do not affect my other custom standings collections/lists.
It would be nice to have that free will for once to try out new things and not have it f**k up all your previous hard work!
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Topic: A new type of League request (Read 4051 times)