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Changing Classic League Schemes

Started by Flori, July 04, 2012, 05:32 PM

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Flori

Ok. A lot of people gonna hate me I think BUT i hope a lof of people will agree also.
These are the 8 Classic League Schemes :
Elite Team17 Hysteria and BnG as default schemes
TTRR Roper Wxw Shoppa as Rope schemes

50% default, 50% rope, this is fair and done on purpose i guess.

Lets look at defaults.
Elite known as the best default schemes. Lets keep it.
Bng : Ok full of notcher but still one of the principal default schemes and we keep it of course.
T17 : Always have been in the principal defaults games also but I think between pro t17 players luck decides A LOT on who will win
Hysteria : FUN schemes, fun concept, but f@#!ing boring when the end starts and can last 1 hour if both team are playing their LIFE with zook from below. Honestly this is the kind of schemes u can win even if your opponent played 500X better than you whole early and mid game, because of the tactics of the schemes. Telecow, suicide on someone, plop ur worm, zook from below, etc etc (i dont know every lame tactic of the schemes).
So yes i know people will disagree saying, this is not lame, this is the hysteria tactic etc etc, but really, someone that is doing greats lg+jetpack zookshoots, or great nade/zook shots only, nice lg cows, in early and mid game can lose because the other guy just hide 1 worm and zook from below, or gonna use the other tactics i quoted before.
This is like : "The one winning hysteria is the one that got borred the last". Every game of hyst would last 1 hour if both player never get bored and want to win absolutly. In elite, t17n bng, you dont have this.

IN ROPE GAMES :
TTRR : everyone know i'm fan, its recognized as the less lucky rope schemes, and the best roping win almost in every case.
Roper : Some would say its luck, look some really good roper players, they never fall, are fast, and attacks with crates some other players couldnt. Thats also a schemes that reward the best roping player (in most of cases..).
WxW : In some easy map, i agree to say that cr8s can do the differenc between 2 decent players, but on hard maps, its really often that the best roping team wins.
SHOPPA : its a rope schemes, but its not at all a roping fight because everyone can catch the cr8 by 30secs and attack, its more about who get the best hides, who is using weapons better than the other, and also who got the BEST crates.

SO, i propose, to balance default and rope schemes, that we delete shoppa of the list, because it doesnt reward the best roping team at all, and put BIG rr instead. This is not an old schemes, but not so new that it was, its been now a few years, there is a LOOOT of big rr maps, and its a good roping fight that reward the best roping team. So that would make 4 rope schemes that all reward the best roping team/player.
And about hysteria/t17, i propose to remove one of these 2, which I think don't reward the best player most of cases, and put Intermediate instead.
I know a lot of people pick hysteria so I don't think there is a chance to change it by intermediate, even if i'd prefer elite/bng/t17/intermediate than elite/bng/hyst/intermediate because t17 needs more skill than hyst. Hyst for me is more a fun schemes for Free League and doesn't deserve to be in Classic Leagues where only the most skilled and less lucky schemes should be.

That's it :D


Free

Remove Hysteria, perhaps Shopper too. Add Intermediate.

If this ain't noob-friendly enough, let us pr0s have a pr0 league.

GreatProfe

Do u want to remove just the schemes what u arent so good, is it? I didnt agree. All schemes have a luck percentage, some schemes have more luck (like Roper and t17), others less luck (Elite, TTRR).

TUS just needs to change the shopper scheme for now (imo). Even Hosting Buddy Shopper Scheme + !crate banana 0 + !fuse 3 is better than TUS Shopper scheme.

For the future, maybe SPW gave us a good idea about the TUS Leagues.

Free

Where is the thread Professor? The one where SPW gave ideas.

In my opinion Hysteria was added too "prematurely" to classic schemes because of the popularity. It's a fun scheme to play, but when you look at it as competitive scheme.. it just sucks. In what competitive scheme plopping your worms in the start could be beneficial other than Hysteria?

Flori

#4
Quote from: Professor on July 04, 2012, 05:56 PM
Do u want to remove just the schemes what u arent so good, is it
I suck in every default, just look at my standings in those schemes...

I just think Classic League should be a Pro League and competitive and Hysteria/Shoppa/T17 are 2 schemes, on high lvl, that are not so pro. For example :
Mablak vs Random00 in RR/Roper/WxW(hard map) : Mab wins, he is faster and better roping player than Random00 (and Random00 has got a very good lvl), but in shoppa, They both play with a lot of reflection so the game won't be about who hide the best/who uses in the best way each weapon but only crates will decide who wins, because their level of roping is widely good enough to attack every turn. And this ain't normal because it's a roping schemes. It should reward the best roping player mostly.

In default : I think this is pretty much the same. Mab wins in Elite and BnG (even if Rdm00 is rly pro), but in hyst/t17, Rdm00 got chances because those schemes dont reward enough the best defaulter.

In summary, what i mean is that hyst/t17/shoppa, in high lvl, are too much lucky schemes, and don't deserve to be in Classic, but in Free League.

An other example : eS doing 2-3 vs mm in PO, winning t17 and hysteria, when mm got 50X their lvl.

This is like there is a roof of maximum of skills in t17+shoppa schemes and if both teams get to the roof, only luck will decide who win.
In hysteria it's not really luck, but its like having too much chances to come back on a game by using tactics as ploping worms, killing worms by a fall, using zook by below. Its like early and mid game are not at all important, only the end, and its stupid because for me a guy doing nice shots by lg, jetpack+lg (grenade or zook or anything) should get advantage compare to an other guy. But no, the other will just telecow, plop, or kill himself by fall, and have all chances to win in the end by zook from below. This is not winning by better skill...

Edit : I was just thinking: If we add some rules like : u cant suicide ur worms on purpose, u cant hide right and left to zook, then it would be interesting and the most skilled guy would win. The league is about who got the best skills, and getting an advantage by playing better early and mid game should have a consequence to the end of the game. Currently there is not at all.


Aerox

hey did you hear, rope and wxw are essentially the same scheme
MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

GreatProfe

Quote from: Free on July 04, 2012, 06:00 PM
Where is the thread Professor? The one where SPW gave ideas.

In my opinion Hysteria was added too "prematurely" to classic schemes because of the popularity. It's a fun scheme to play, but when you look at it as competitive scheme.. it just sucks. In what competitive scheme plopping your worms in the start could be beneficial other than Hysteria?

Free, that's here:

Quote from: SPW on April 30, 2012, 01:06 PM
TuS would be perfect with:

TUS-Default League [TDL] - (Elite, T17, BnG, Hysteria) - each one pick - Season: 1 month - Playofs Top 4 / 8 - Limit 30 / max. 4 games same opponent / Win-%: 50.

TUS-Roper League [TRL] - (TTRR, Roper, Shopper, WxW) - each one pick - Season: 1 month - Playofs Top 4 / 8 - Limit 30 /  max. 4 games same opponent / Win-%: 50.

TUS-Champions League [TUS] - (Elite, TTRR, T17, Roper, BnG, Shopper, Hysteria, WxW) - each one pick - Season: 1 month - Playofs Top 8 - Limit 30 / max. 4 games same opponent / Win-%: 50.


TUS-Free League [TFL] - (with all schemes / modds in the world exept the "Top 8") - each one pick - Season: 3 or 4 month - Playoffs Top 4 or 8 - Limit 30 / max. 10 games same opponent / Win-%: 40

--> TUS-Rotated League: Cancelled.

System for all: Current one.

Thas my little shit for it. :)


=D

darKz

3874528345th thread (partly) about Hysteria not suiting into classic league. When is it ever gonna be removed? :D

I agree btw. Changes to the classic league need to be done.

And I don't like SPWs idea, it's basically the same as right now but more leagues.
I remember knowing who it was but dont remember exactly what I knew
~ Dubc 2010

Free

Quote from: darKz on July 04, 2012, 06:16 PM
3874528345th thread (partly) about Hysteria not suiting into classic league. When is it ever gonna be removed? :D

Eeeexactly.

Aerox

MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

Ray

Hysteria is not going to be removed, because this is a democratic league, not a quality league and there are too many newbies out there who cannot play anything else and keep picking that scheme.

nappy

T17 needed to be gotten rid off the classic league for a loooooong time. It's: a) lucky b) boring c) doesn't require any particular skills. Hysteria doesn't belong either, since it's basically a weird form of BnG with elements of really awkward and annoying gameplay (like the fact you put yourself in a disadvantage when you kill a worm, what the f@#!, seriously. Yeah, I know, the same applies to elite, but well :D).

Intermediate for sure must be brought in, but some kind of rule needs to be introduced to reduce potential wave of whining regarding game's nature to screw you with starting positions. It could be bo3 games (might take a lot of time, dunno how suitable is that), it could be "one restart" rule, it could be something else - some thinking is definitely required here.

Another potential scheme to be introduced to the classic league is WFW. While you can speculate about the map knowledge factor, this scheme for sure requires both strategic insight and various weapon skills. Why not a classic league material?

nappy

Quote from: Ray on July 04, 2012, 06:42 PM
Hysteria is not going to be removed, because this is a democratic league, not a quality league and there are too many newbies out there who cannot play anything else and keep picking that scheme.

Intermediate is just perfect fill for this gap, Ray.

Aerox

Quote from: nappy on July 04, 2012, 06:49 PM


Intermediate is just perfect fill for this gap, Ray.

Or boomrace
MonkeyIsland, my friend, I know your english is terrible and your understanding of society limited. However, in real life, people attack and humiliate others without the use of a single bad word. They even go to war with lengthy politeness. You can't base the whole moderation philosophy of a community based on the use of bad words and your struggle with sarcasm and irony. My attack to Jonno was fully justified and of proper good taste.
Eat a bag full of dicks.

nappy