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June 20, 2021, 12:39 PM

Author Topic: New TUS League proposal: the "Underground League" or maybe "Funner League"  (Read 436 times)

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Offline FoxHound

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Hi it is 2021 and we are playing with version 3.8.1 which means RubberWorm and TestStuff are officially inside the new scheme format. This game has a lot of schemes that are not available in TUS leagues. Now all existing RubberWorm and TS schemes can be easily played and there are no RubberWorm schemes in TUS leagues. The community changed a lot, so why not add new schemes to TUS leagues?

The Times... They are A-Changin'...

Just take a look into Schemes page and Scheme ideas page or maybe TUS schemes list. Some people think they are the best because they play 1 scheme of all existing in WA, even the "allrounders" of TUS probably don't play so many schemes of WA.

I know, the more schemes, the more complicated it will be to administrate the league, but I think it would be interesting to try the idea. Maybe this could be a "Funner League" or something like that... Maybe a not so serious league...

I don't know the others but I would participate in a league with the underground schemes...

I would like to see a league with Neocombat, Quickdraw, Plop Gum, Black Hole BnG, Driver, Goku Battle Arena, Rope Knocking, Skinflint Roping, Teleporting, Hand to Hand, Space Race, Pool, Beef Race, Hoops, Supermarket Shopper (this one is being played quite frequently in WormNET), Rowy, Power Prodder, Hide and Seek, Snooker, Boom for Weapons, Flat Earth Apocalypse, Drown Syndrome, Worms Chess, Ghost Knocking (this one is not actually so underground), Trench Warfare, Worms Basketball (this one is well known too), Dabble and Fidget, Special War (or one of its variants), Sally Shopper, Kill The King and so many others...

There are also those schemes that would be complicated to be in competitive scenario like Board Game.

Not to say Kaleu schemes like Selecsteria and Freemediate, but these are proposals for already existing leagues... Dario's 80normal is a similar case (this scheme is being played frequently).

Also, the league could receive some of the ZaR schemes too, specially if Kradie stops posting fake news and conspiracy theories.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 07:20 AM by FoxHound »
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Offline Komito

It's not a bad idea.

These leagues existed in the first place due to heavy popular demand, and it all started with minimal schemes like BnG/Elite/Roper/Team17 and slowly over time schemes were added one by one after being proven popular enough throughout the main leagues in WA.

Even Free League is pretty dead right now, are there enough people to make all these schemes active and worth it?

Offline FoxHound

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It's not a bad idea.

These leagues existed in the first place due to heavy popular demand, and it all started with minimal schemes like BnG/Elite/Roper/Team17 and slowly over time schemes were added one by one after being proven popular enough throughout the main leagues in WA.

Even Free League is pretty dead right now, are there enough people to make all these schemes active and worth it?

I don't know, most of the schemes I wrote are not very known, but the idea would be a league with only different or new schemes. Schemes that most people don't know. It would be good to make people try new stuff.

Other names I thought: 3.8 League (only 3.8 schemes), ESO League (only Extended Scheme Options schemes), RubberWorm League (only RubberWorm schemes), Alternative League, Scheme Promotion League, Rotative League (the schemes of this league would change periodically, with short seasons), etc.

The idea may "flop", but since we are in a "new era" I think it worths a try.

Like in other games such as League of Legends, Clash Royale and Hearthstone they release often new gameplay modes to people try, some game modes people like, others don't. They do this to people don't get bored of playing, it is good to play variants from the main game sometimes. In league of legends there was a game mode called Dominion that never made a big succes (and one day they removed it from the game, only introducing it rotatively sometimes), but ARAM (All Random All Mid) was one created by the players that became an official very popular game mode. It was not played competitively, though. Another game mode that people loved but only appeared rotatively and not competitively is URF (Ultra Rapid Fire). Later TFT (Teamfight Tactics) become an official mode.

It is hard to make a new variant that people like and play, but at least we could try. If people don't discover and try new ideas we will never know if they will like in fact. If the schemes receive a proper league, maybe people will try them, I don't know. Particularly, one thing I liked about Worm Olympics is that new schemes were often appearing there and even these new schemes received special icons for the medals. You can still see the replays of these alternative schemes that are stored on the website, this is nice. In TUS we do have new schemes being hosted in tournaments or even in cups, but I still think WO was more receptive to new schemes, people also usually played more the new schemes, they used to host alternative schemes that appeared in previous WOs, sometimes during the same WO these schemes were hosted many times. In TUS the chance to a tournament "flop" is higher I think. Maybe because in WO people were crazy about winning no matter the scheme just to receive more points and stay in first positions of the whole event.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2021, 07:37 AM by FoxHound »
Do you want to know different and creative schemes around Worms community? Check Scheme ideas.

See all my maps on my WMDB profile.

My nickname has to do with my time records of the hardest rank to get after the credits of Metal Gear Solid 3.

I used to play WWP online before playing WA online.

Offline Sbaffo

MI right now

Offline Komito

 :D I can hear Chief Wiggum saying "I'll just type it up on my invisible typewriter".

Offline Kaleu

Nice post Fox, I think we should do it just for the sake of "we have nothing left to lose", as we try to revive the league and worms, just let people play competitively whatever they want. It's a last try.
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Offline TheWalrus

I wish people would just play all-round league to drive up activity, but since I'm largely disconnected and not active myself, this doesn't sound like a bad idea.  Would there be enough of a player base?  I think the skill gap and learning curve turn people off to wa leagues.  Other games have ELO, where you play players of your own skill level.  If a new player decided to start playing WA in league, and played 100 games with dibz, dibz probably wins 99-1 because he forgot to play for a game.  Point being the learning curve is wayyy too punishing and a league like this could mitigate that.

Offline FoxHound

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I don't know if people would play this league, because many people don't like to try new concepts. They just want to play something they are familiar with. Learning a new scheme takes time and I know that many new schemes are experimental and might not be so funny as the notable ones. But man, I really think there are really, really good ideas that aren't played just because people don't know. The more schemes, the more gameplay possibilities, the more creativity players can put in the history of this game, the less the chance to people get bored playing.

I really think people should sometimes create a new scheme, a new map, because this is something this game has that the others don't have: you can be a pro player in any game, but you cannot be a mini game-designer, a creative contributor to the game in any game. In my opinion this is what makes Worms Armageddon so special. If people create more schemes, they would understand the frustration of scheme makers. It is not easy to do something people really enjoy playing and this takes time working... It is very sad when you host a new concept, someone joins the game play 3 minutes, say the scheme is shit because it is not the one provided in a TUS league and then quits...
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 08:56 AM by FoxHound »
Do you want to know different and creative schemes around Worms community? Check Scheme ideas.

See all my maps on my WMDB profile.

My nickname has to do with my time records of the hardest rank to get after the credits of Metal Gear Solid 3.

I used to play WWP online before playing WA online.

Offline Komito

It's not so much that people don't like trying new concepts, it's more a case of is it worth it.

People in WA likely stick to what they know for a variety of reasons, these are a few of mine:

  • The scheme is already popular and has a large enough playerbase to enjoy competitively.
  • They already know they enjoy playing it.
  • They have stood the test of time, they know it will last making it a wise investment.


Likewise here is a list of possible reasons to avoid new schemes:

  • The scheme is unknown to many and therefor has an unknown playerbase, making it struggle to find matches
  • Is it fun for a few months type thing, will the fun last as long as other things they enjoy?
  • Will this scheme last long enough to invest time learning, or will it die soon making it feel like a waste of time?

Of course, there are positive reasons to try new things, personally the lack of being enough players and enough competition is one major reason I don't try new things. I'm the kind of person who will easily invest 20-40 hours a week practising something to compete, which unless the actual scheme itself is incredibly fun to play, the lack of competition makes it feel pointless if there are only a handful of players to compete against.

However I believe time itself is the most important aspect, there is too much to choose from and so little time and energy, you don't see 1 person winning every olympic sport.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 01:51 PM by Komito »

Offline FoxHound

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Yeah, I think your points make a lot of sense. Even though you are actually participating in 80normal discussions and events. You created Jet Pack BnG, so you have at least one scheme as an experience of scheme-making.

I do want to see some of the underground schemes on competitive, because  there are many that are very good and people don't know, some of them very typical of competitions, very simple concepts.
Do you want to know different and creative schemes around Worms community? Check Scheme ideas.

See all my maps on my WMDB profile.

My nickname has to do with my time records of the hardest rank to get after the credits of Metal Gear Solid 3.

I used to play WWP online before playing WA online.

Offline Komito

JpBnG, there were a lot of people at the time who really enjoyed it, however it only lasted about 3-4 months. An interesting fact, before TUS was TUS it was TUT - The Ultimate Tournament, and JpBnG Tournaments were hosted there, the guys in CF like JohnMcLane etc really enjoyed it.

It didn't have the right environment to survive though, it fell victim to the very things I was talking about in my previous post here, and that was during a time of high activity in WA in general.

An alternative way for you to enjoy these alternative schemes right now is to create Tournaments and Cups with people you know will enjoy it, you can also ask for them to be implemented in TUS TRL, i'm hoping to get 80hp as a TRL Season once we've finished with a few more Tournaments and a Cup. We'll see.

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Offline SIBASA

I think that the creation of such experimental leagues can be an indicator of what people like and track the activity of a certain interest in individual schemes, thus it is possible to transfer the most popular, tested and publicized schemes from the experimental to the Allround league.

For example, now in the next topic of this forum, the allowed modifications in the league schemes are being discussed and some people consider some changes to be a separate scheme. I am in favor of creating such an experiment that will show which schemes will enjoy the most popularity.

Offline FoxHound

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I think that the creation of such experimental leagues can be an indicator of what people like and track the activity of a certain interest in individual schemes, thus it is possible to transfer the most popular, tested and publicized schemes from the experimental to the Allround league.

For example, now in the next topic of this forum, the allowed modifications in the league schemes are being discussed and some people consider some changes to be a separate scheme. I am in favor of creating such an experiment that will show which schemes will enjoy the most popularity.

I agree.
Do you want to know different and creative schemes around Worms community? Check Scheme ideas.

See all my maps on my WMDB profile.

My nickname has to do with my time records of the hardest rank to get after the credits of Metal Gear Solid 3.

I used to play WWP online before playing WA online.