MI, what is the point of continuing a game, if your opponent outright breaks the rules and will not carry out the punishment required for the rule they broke?
It doesn't say in any part of the official rules page you must continue to play if an opponent breaks a rule and then complain in forums afterwards.
If someone is playing a League game, the opponent breaks a rule and does not take the punishment required, the victim should be able to quit that game and refuse to play(void it), or request a rematch.
For example, I play a BnG with someone, the score is around 96hp for me, and 80hp for them, they throw a grenade and it sits, takes 45 damage from me, I have been pushed into a hide where I just can't fire back at them, and they refuse to hit their worm for the same damage, if I carry on and he wins, because he broke the rules and didn't take the punishment, the game will be voided anyway when I complain if he reports because I quit, so I should be able to quit right there and save myself time and keep myself from getting angry at the other guy, as far as I am aware, this has happened a few times on TuS, where players have quit because the other wouldn't stop breaking rules or accept the punishment for a rule they broke, and it was perfectly fine when they complained after the person reported a win cuz they quit.
Recently in a BnG complaint I told a friend of mine if a player breaks rules and won't take the punishment they can quit because the game will be voided, and one of the MODS told me not to give others fake advice and stop backseat moderating lol, he also said something like "you must continue to play and let MODS decide" which isn't even in the legitimate rules anywhere on TuS. I was only trying to help a friend to save him from future frustration by giving him advice that is actually correct..?
So I guess my question is, if someone breaks rules, and does not take the punishent required, are you allowed to quit and the game becomes void, or quit and request a rematch?
It depends on the rule that has got broken.
In some cases, like sitters in BnG you can't always tell it was a sitter or not. Same happens in AFR rule in shopper or accidental knockings in default games. So quitting/messing-up the game is not a good idea. That's why we say comtinue the game and let the mods decide.
Ok that seems fair enough if it's hard to tell, but what about when it's blindingly obvious?
Like in a Roper a perfect block? Or a sitter than obviously stopped for 1s or longer?
If someone cow and refuse to take the punishment (continuing or not cowing):
- If you leave, they'll say you should have continued. So you earn a lose.
- If you stay, they'll say you stood during the whole game, so you earn a lose. As argument, they get "if you had won, you wouldn't have reported the complaint".
And in the best case, the game is voided (even if you were clearly winning). So in any case, the cower is right.
PS: For sure it'll depends on players. If an unknown player complaints about a highly known and liked guy, this last will get a win.
PPS: TuS rules system sucks.
Nah that's wrong Ugo, it's happened where players have left game, and was voided cuz rulebreaker who didn't accept consequences.
Quote from: Abnaxus on February 22, 2011, 11:22 AM
If someone cow and refuse to take the punishment (continuing or not cowing):
- If you leave, they'll say you should have continued. So you earn a lose.
- If you stay, they'll say you stood during the whole game, so you earn a lose. As argument, they get "if you had won, you wouldn't have reported the complaint".
marry me! :D
Quote from: Abnaxus on February 22, 2011, 11:22 AM
PS: For sure it'll depends on players. If an unknown player complaints about a highly known and liked guy, this last will get a win.
PPS: TuS rules system sucks.
ye , thats the karma effect , if ur karma is high , u can cheat on TuS , like using Alias and playing a lot of games singles and clanners , without be banned ...
or the cows in games :P
true true xDDDDDDDDdddddddddddd
lol drama, drama, drama.
Instead of trash talking, show us an example of our failure as a moderator. We never claimed that we are perfect in moderating but that kind of talking is just drama.
Quote from: Abnaxus on February 22, 2011, 11:22 AM
PS: For sure it'll depends on players. If an unknown player complaints about a highly known and liked guy, this last will get a win.
This (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/complaints/52208-6229/) is one of the examples that proves you wrong. I could go on and show examples for every of your arguments.
Quote from: Abnaxus on February 22, 2011, 11:22 AM
PPS: TuS rules system sucks.
I really like you Abnaxus so don't read this in a wrong way: It is actually your point of view which sucks.
As example there are the games why I stopped playing TuS ?
I remember a T17 against `ps who used a wrong scheme.
There was a way to make it right during the game, but they didn't (and won thanks to this).
No punishment has been made.
There was other games from other players where the same happenned.
But I won't bother searching in the forum for those games.
PS: I remember a time when I was back after a break.
After reading the forum once, I sent you PM about the case you weren't banning bad behaving people from league: this one was totally objective.
Giving a second chance, then "killing" a recidivist is a bad point of view ? Well, this one is your.
The only way to train mangy dogs is a strict behaviour.
Actually not the best example man, they agreed to play another time because I had to go, and yet they reported coz we took another clanner, I didn't know they were still around, didn't look WN's lobby I know I started to mess around but I said, " I gotta run" after that and we were still leading...So my point was that they only reported the not finished game coz they saw us playing another clan instead of playing the rematch with them, I even told him "Oh didnt know u were around let us finish this pick and we will get u on AG, And he said f@#! this I'll report, I accepted and gave the game coz dub and nino started a silly flame...They reported an UNFINISHED GAME and they AGREED to rm another time, so best thing to do is erase the game isnt it? coz it's a fake win report.
hey evil devil, ur u talkin about our shopper when i was in cd?
Abnaxus: SoiDH (http://www.soidh.co.uk/)
Also, here's an idea if your opponent cows.
"skip turn or I will make a complaint". The objection that "you wouldn't have complained otherwise" is now immediately gone.
Sometimes the solution is simple, as long as you take a little responsibility for your own actions and think for yourself. Plenty of cases where they said they will make a complaint (and consequently tell them they're going to be banned, though I'm not sure how they can tell ;))
Truth is, for most complaints you wouldn't need a mod if people could just start being mature and come to a compromise. Unfortunately, there seems to be a trend in internet behaviour towards "I'm right, the rest of the world isn't!".
Of course, these are just general statements, but someone feels I'm talking about them, then perhaps they should start thinking about how they handle their online problems compared to real life.
Quote from: DarkOne on March 15, 2011, 02:31 PMAbnaxus: SoiDH (http://www.soidh.co.uk/)
?
Anyway, even when you give a simple solution to it, opponents can refuse it (it's what happenned).
So what if everything is as simple as a "I don't want" ?
There must be rules, and punishments for rulebreaking. That's all.
Yes I'am, read Mi's post dude wtf
Did you see the title of the page too? Source Or It Didn't Happen :P
Still don't get it. <.<
You mean watching the source code ?
sources for ur accusations (:
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/complaints/team17-versus-ps/
Can't find my posts, so I let you the response:
QuoteRe: TuS rules.
« Sent to: Abnaxus on: March 11, 2010, 10:32 am »
Quote from: MonkeyIslandPeople got banned/warned, after some time they got unbanned and unwarned Smiley
Can you please show me where exactly you are seeing these flames?
Yeah that links stupid D1 lol, should say proof or something not source too many people don't get it lol.
Quote from: Komito on March 15, 2011, 11:45 PM
Yeah that links stupid D1 lol, should say proof or something not source too many people don't get it lol.
:(
The reason I prefer "source" is that they have to send me to some place that shows that something actually happened. Some people think proof is just saying that something happened.
Abnaxus, all you did was quote MI asking for exactly the same as I am.
Quote from: DarkOne on March 16, 2011, 12:19 PMSome people think proof is just saying that something happened.
Then they thought wrong lol :)
Quote from: DarkOne on March 16, 2011, 12:19 PMAbnaxus, all you did was quote MI asking for exactly the same as I am.
What about the first link ?
Plus, I told you I can't see my messages sent, but you (who are moderator), you should be able to see those ones using the quote I gave you.
No, I can't see anyone else's inbox for the simple reason that's not my business.
As for the complaint you mentioned, sorry, missed the link. ps didn't break a rule since TUS allowed both schemes. Rok was quite clear about that. Perhaps we should've used that occasion to make clear rules on the schemes, but we can't change what did or didn't happen in the past.
As for their misbehaving, I'd be annoyed too considering you kept going on about those girders. Everybody was saying play on, wait for mods to decide and you were still complaining about it in the game.
They told you to stop it, though they framed it with their 12 yr old comment at one point and that's it.
Lol D1, don't you think Mods would have said "you finished the game, so it's too late to complaint" ? (Btw, it's half what happenned.)
And that's the reason of my words there.
PS: TuS scheme was 7 girders, and rules said to use TuS scheme.
The only way to use another scheme is to ask your opponent if they mind, what they didn't (hoping we wouldn't notice).
You know, I would get over it if you had agreed you guys made a mistake, but since you refuse it, I can't.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 11:13 AM
Lol D1, don't you think Mods would have said "you finished the game, so it's too late to complaint" ? (Btw, it's half what happenned.)
No, it isn't, not even remotely. Darkz said that, but he was never a mod at TUS. If you're going on about what we "probably would have said" then there's just no way anyone can ever do anything right in your eyes.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 11:13 AM
And that's the reason of my words there.
PS: TuS scheme was 7 girders, and rules said to use TuS scheme.
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/#107
Why don't you go and quote that rule from this page? :)
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 11:13 AMThe only way to use another scheme is to ask your opponent if they mind, what they didn't (hoping we wouldn't notice).
You know, I would get over it if you had agreed you guys made a mistake, but since you refuse it, I can't.
If you can find a quote in the rules saying you must use the TUS schemes, then I will admit things went wrong. I haven't found it, though. Rok didn't find it back when the complaint was made.
I do agree that if people host a scheme that is out of the norm, they should at least notify you before you light up. This is why the announcement was made.
When all is said and done, you're just mad at us because we disagreed with you on the complaint. If that's the norm, then we'll have a lot of people being angry with us for the simple reason that there are complaints.
If you would read Gal's complaint about the same thing actually, you would find that despite our disagreements, we still want to act normally with eachother, which is a healthy way of handling problems .
"I'll never forgive you" is the kind of mentality that leads to trolling, so I would advise you to be very careful about that. Example: http://i.imgur.com/Jdenq.jpg
The rules have changed there, I'm sure of it. The rule was here, ask MI.
Quoteyou're just mad at us because we disagreed with you on the complaint
That's true, since I was very objective on it.
I never complaint except if I think it's needed ('cause I don't really care).
Quote"I'll never forgive you" is the kind of mentality that leads to trolling
I just have no more confidence about Moderators, that's pretty different.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 01:05 PM
The rules have changed there, I'm sure of it. The rule was here, ask MI.
I did. He didn't know of that ever being in the TUS rules.
Also: http://replay.waybackmachine.org/20090514025728/https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/rules/ please quote it to me. This was from before your complaint, I couldn't find a newer one. If you can find a newer one that does have the rules, then please supply me with a link.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 01:05 PM
Quoteyou're just mad at us because we disagreed with you on the complaint
That's true, since I was very objective on it.
I never complaint except if I think it's needed ('cause I don't really care).
Yes, you don't really care so much that over half a year after you made a complaint, you're still going on about how wrong we are, even though you aren't supplying anything to support your case while we have to go around searching for sources.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 01:05 PM
Quote"I'll never forgive you" is the kind of mentality that leads to trolling
I just have no more confidence about Moderators, that's pretty different.
So far, you haven't given any convincing evidence of mods making a mistake in your complaint. All you're saying is that we're wrong, and when we're supplying arguments against that, you're moving the goal post, like "well, it used to be there, but now it's removed".
See, Komo, this is what I meant with
Quote from: DarkOne on March 16, 2011, 12:19 PMSome people think proof is just saying that something happened.
Burden of proof, buddy.
Lol D1, and again I say, then they thought wrong ;):P
QuoteQuote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 01:05 PM
Quoteyou're just mad at us because we disagreed with you on the complaint
That's true, since I was very objective on it.
I never complaint except if I think it's needed ('cause I don't really care).
Yes, you don't really care so much that over half a year after you made a complaint, you're still going on about how wrong we are, even though you aren't supplying anything to support your case while we have to go around searching for sources.
Cause there it was needed ?
QuoteSo far, you haven't given any convincing evidence of mods making a mistake in your complaint. All you're saying is that we're wrong, and when we're supplying arguments against that, you're moving the goal post, like "well, it used to be there, but now it's removed".
If you really think I'm doing this shit, then we don't need to talk.
QuoteBurden of proof, buddy.
To contain many informations, you need to get them minimized.
Between keeping proofs and keeping what I knew/found with them, I prefer the last one.
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 07:26 PM
To contain many informations, you need to get them minimized.
Between keeping proofs and keeping what I knew/found with them, I prefer the last one.
This is exactly the way people from the anti-vaccination group feels: "I don't have to know statistics about morbidity and mortality, I just
know vaccinations are bad!"
I wasn't asking you for the source from memory, I was asking you to look for it. I even gave you the bloody link for it. Nobody can memorize everything. This is why we look for things. This is why we have Google, encyclopedias, books. We look things up that we don't memorize. Not even being willing to look through the links or look it up for yourself is laziness. Either that or you're just lying.
I'm curious though, is this "everything sucks" attitude you're displaying only directed at TUS or does it spread to all parts of your life?
QuoteNot even being willing to look through the links or look it up for yourself is laziness
Who said I haven't look at the links ? Everytime I reply you, you stand on your previous post.
Look at the other side of the wall, dude.
(This is not a "goal post move" as you would think/say, but a real advice.)
PS: When someone says many things suck. Does it mean everything suck ? Does it mean there is only those things in your life ?
Quote from: Abnaxus on March 17, 2011, 08:31 PM
Look at the other side of the wall, dude.
Please do.
You haven't acknowledged a single thing anyone has brought up, so I have no choice but to point back towards them. I can't see what's happening on your screen and I can't see what's happening in your head, so if you don't say anything, then I have to assume nothing is happening.
As far as I know, you still think it was in the rules, while I've shown the versions prior to your complaint and after your complaint as close as I could find them and the rules you were talking about aren't in there. And when you can't find it, it's "then it used to be in there and was removed". Perhaps your memory is mistaken?
Quote from: DarkOne on March 17, 2011, 08:58 PMPerhaps your memory is mistaken?
I wondered, but in fact it's impossible since I get "(You must use) TuS Scheme" in mind.
(****) means there was something with the same meaning but not this.