yea as the title says, was watching news 24 at half 4 this morning, and there obama announces that the us have killed him and his son in pakistan and now have their bodys, this is the first time in recent memory that both the bins have been taken out on bank holiday. (sorry couldnt resist)
Back to all seriousness now, is this good or bad? and what repurcussions will the US/UK recieve?, i personally don't like it with the 2012 olympics in the UK next year, but we'll see.
Opinions please
(http://i.imgur.com/ROcFG.png)
I guess many people in the west see it as the closing of a chapter. Not of the whole operation against terrorism, but definitely of Bush' War on Terror.
The Arab world, that's a different case. The border between a serial killer and a hero of the faith is very small.
Sure, we'll have to tackle possible new attacks, but it's definitely a nice punch we've dealt here at Al-Qaeda.
Although, we'll have to see what happens, who his successor is gonna be. An old drewling man in a wheelchair or an enigmatic young extremist jihadi.
you believe he's really dead this??
iam crying.
a big war is coming...
I do not think that really is dead ... I think this will calm the people on the other hand leave country on alert ...... and if he died, why throw your body overboard?? if you kill the snake, dead snake show.
They won't make a parade on times square with his body..
plus if he isn't dead then he will make a new video... ::)
Quote from: darkmaul on May 02, 2011, 02:23 PM
They won't make a parade on times square with his body..
plus if he isn't dead then he will make a new video... ::)
Or retaliation...
plz don't make any more shitty videos
whats so shitty on this video? well those asshole always talkin about holy war got shot in the head.now finaly got what he deserved.
Im really not sure about this... were any pictures of his body taken? We all saw Saddam when he was caught, yet we've been searching for this guy for the last decade and no pictures or videos were taken of his body? They said they buried him at sea within 24 hours of his death (respecting Islamic tradition), Im really not sure about this. Im not a big believer in conspiracy theories, but this just seems really strange. Im not even sure he was ever alive, I think they may have killed him ages ago... or not even killed him at all... seems fishy to me.
Hmm according to the media they threw him out at sea cause they didn't wanna make his grave a shrine.
Someone will miss him?
I think it's very important that proof is shown of bin laden's body or many people will not believe it and he becomes a sort of myth for the fanatics.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpppG9-qkG4
September 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself. If they really wanted to catch bin ladden before, they would have done it. They've just let him run. Now, is he really dead ? I doubt about it. He must be chilling in some paradise island
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 05:39 PM
September 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself.
Please don't go there.
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 05:39 PMSeptember 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself
If you really spent time researching the claims of the 9/11 'truth' movement then you'd soon discover that there is no grand conspiracy perpetrated by the US government against their own people.
If you aren't willing to do the research then at least present some evidence you feel proves your point.
Quote from: angus on May 02, 2011, 05:07 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpppG9-qkG4
lol that image was made for a tv channel from pakistan or israel , dont remember , i saw that on tv , and obviously was fake , i also heard on tv that the Pentagon had some pictures of Osama's corpse , and they were going to release it , dunno when
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 06:19 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 05:39 PMSeptember 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself
If you really spent time researching the claims of the 9/11 'truth' movement then you'd soon discover that there is no grand conspiracy perpetrated by the US government against their own people.
If you aren't willing to do the research then at least present some evidence you feel proves your point.
Since you seem to be in the know, how did the world trade center perfectly implode on itself, when it would normally take a demolition team weeks to prepare and set up to make a building that size fall perfectly?
Farenheit, 11 september
This movie explain many things...
Osama has bin laden to rest.
Quote from: dilligaf on May 02, 2011, 07:11 PM
Osama has bin laden to rest.
"RIP Osama bin Laden, World Hide and Go Seek Champion (2001-2011)".
Quote from: ThaShady1 on May 02, 2011, 06:52 PM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 06:19 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 05:39 PMSeptember 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself
If you really spent time researching the claims of the 9/11 'truth' movement then you'd soon discover that there is no grand conspiracy perpetrated by the US government against their own people.
If you aren't willing to do the research then at least present some evidence you feel proves your point.
Since you seem to be in the know, how did the world trade center perfectly implode on itself, when it would normally take a demolition team weeks to prepare and set up to make a building that size fall perfectly?
If there weren't bombs in the building right?
Mate, I could answer your questions and more because I have a nice resource for 9/11 conspiracy questions with good solid answers. But I won't engage in this topic unless people are willing to change their minds.
I am willing to change my mind on anything but usually people who believe in an 9/11 inside job are completely unable to change their mind even in the midst of strong persuasive arguments against their position.
No point in debating this imo for the above reasons.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 07:28 PM
Quote from: ThaShady1 on May 02, 2011, 06:52 PM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 06:19 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 05:39 PMSeptember 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself
If you really spent time researching the claims of the 9/11 'truth' movement then you'd soon discover that there is no grand conspiracy perpetrated by the US government against their own people.
If you aren't willing to do the research then at least present some evidence you feel proves your point.
Since you seem to be in the know, how did the world trade center perfectly implode on itself, when it would normally take a demolition team weeks to prepare and set up to make a building that size fall perfectly?
If there weren't bombs in the building right?
Mate, I could answer your questions and more because I have a nice resource for 9/11 conspiracy questions with good solid answers. But I won't engage in this topic unless people are willing to change their minds.
I am willing to change my mind on anything but usually people who believe in an 9/11 inside job are completely unable to change their mind even in the midst of strong persuasive arguments against their position.
No point in debating this imo for the above reasons.
well nice said, the problem on conspiracy theroies is u cant convince em with facts cause they belong to the conspiracy
Quote from: ThaShady1 on May 02, 2011, 06:52 PM
Since you seem to be in the know, how did the world trade center perfectly implode on itself, when it would normally take a demolition team weeks to prepare and set up to make a building that size fall perfectly?
http://www.youtube.com/user/RKOwens4#p/u the videos I saw give quite clear explanations
I also rather enjoyed dprjones' small series on it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPyM8sDFCoQ&playnext=1&list=PL354930B8A03AA5D5
Michael Moore's movies have very little to do with actual research, though. I'll be the first to admit that Bush was an idiot and should never have taken office, but I don't buy Moore's stuff. He can be demonstrated to be wrong on multiple accounts.
Back on topic: they seem to have used several techniques to identify bin Laden, though it's amazing they apparently got DNA proof already. As far as I know, with modern techniques, it'll take several hours to get DNA proof and I'm not sure such equipment was at hand so quickly. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
iam still crying
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 07:28 PM
Quote from: ThaShady1 on May 02, 2011, 06:52 PM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 06:19 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 05:39 PMSeptember 11 was a big joke, a big fake organized by the US gouvernement itself
If you really spent time researching the claims of the 9/11 'truth' movement then you'd soon discover that there is no grand conspiracy perpetrated by the US government against their own people.
If you aren't willing to do the research then at least present some evidence you feel proves your point.
Since you seem to be in the know, how did the world trade center perfectly implode on itself, when it would normally take a demolition team weeks to prepare and set up to make a building that size fall perfectly?
If there weren't bombs in the building right?
Mate, I could answer your questions and more because I have a nice resource for 9/11 conspiracy questions with good solid answers. But I won't engage in this topic unless people are willing to change their minds.
I am willing to change my mind on anything but usually people who believe in an 9/11 inside job are completely unable to change their mind even in the midst of strong persuasive arguments against their position.
No point in debating this imo for the above reasons.
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, I just don't understand how the buildings fell so perfectly. Was hoping you had a quick answer.
Shady: http://www.crono911.net/docs/Bazant2007.pdf Link provided by dprjones (2nd video in the playlist I linked you to, just ignore the name of the video)
The quick answers are usually the wrong answers in these cases :( Conspiracy theorists usually pick the quick answers and put them in a nice package and hope other people will take their word for it. Unfortunately, it seems to be working.
Why are you crying, king? :(
What bugs me the most with 9/11 is phone calls from the planes, several tests proved at that height there was no signal possible :/
Quote from: Spaazi on May 02, 2011, 08:18 PM
What bugs me the most with 9/11 is phone calls from the planes, several tests proved at that height there was no signal possible :/
Well don't feel bugged anymore. Because you can use cell phones at that height and you could back in 2001 too.
Quote from: DarkOne on May 02, 2011, 08:10 PM
Why are you crying, king? :(
cos iam paki lol.
this is a really he is dead :O
Quote from: oldsock on May 02, 2011, 07:19 PM
Quote from: dilligaf on May 02, 2011, 07:11 PM
Osama has bin laden to rest.
"RIP Osama bin Laden, World Hide and Go Seek Champion (2001-2011)".
you saw the facebook group then?
Quote from: CJ on May 02, 2011, 09:26 PM
Quote from: oldsock on May 02, 2011, 07:19 PM
Quote from: dilligaf on May 02, 2011, 07:11 PM
Osama has bin laden to rest.
"RIP Osama bin Laden, World Hide and Go Seek Champion (2001-2011)".
you saw the facebook group then?
affirmative
C'mon guys don't be so naive.
Do you really think Bush / Obama are leading the USA ?
About the towers, they found some explosives traces, some bombs were placed there.
One of the tower that also exploded was the archive on the CIA.. strange no?
Also, NYC is one of the most protected city, but this day, US air forces weren't around, they were in some mission in canada or i dont know where.. Isn't this strange ? :P
Oh, and also they found the passport of a terrorist gently placed on the pile of debry after the explosion...
Anyway, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, just saying there something we don't know, and the story they said at TV wasn't the truth. Even some american journalist admitted it.
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
kinda true but i dont get the link between 9 11. tell me, why the us economy should be interested in an terror strike which f@#!s ups up wallstreet and obviously folowed by an war which is really not cheap. just to find an excuse for the weapon industrie? nah there would be smarter way then killin thousends of americans (irak anyone :))
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
Even some american journalist admitted it.
NO WAY!!!
Your post reminds me of a quote by Death in a terry pratchett book (Hogfather): "MERE ACCUMULATION OF OBSERVATIONAL EVIDENCE IS NOT PROOF." (fans know why I used caps :))
Watch the videos. They deal with facts.
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
C'mon guys don't be so naive.
Do you really think Bush / Obama are leading the USA ?
About the towers, they found some explosives traces, some bombs were placed there.
One of the tower that also exploded was the archive on the CIA.. strange no?
Also, NYC is one of the most protected city, but this day, US air forces weren't around, they were in some mission in canada or i dont know where.. Isn't this strange ? :P
Oh, and also they found the passport of a terrorist gently placed on the pile of debry after the explosion...
Anyway, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, just saying there something we don't know, and the story they said at TV wasn't the truth. Even some american journalist admitted it.
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
You are saying that it's a conspiracy.
You are suggesting that bombs brought down the twin towers.
Can't get much more of a conspiracy theory than that!
I bet you watched the video 'loose change' didn't you? I watched it too and was then
convinced 9/11 was an inside job. I was absolutely amazed at what I saw and how it was so obviously a cover up.
A few years down the line, I look back at how absolutely f@#!ing stupid I was. Seriously.
Falling for the 9/11 conspiracy and then realising how wrong I was taught me some valuable lessons.
You have been severely misguided by the information you've read on 9/11 and I hope you spend some time digging a little deeper on the subject.
Quote from: Peja on May 02, 2011, 10:18 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
kinda true but i dont get the link between 9 11. tell me, why the us economy should be interested in an terror strike which f@#!s ups up wallstreet and obviously folowed by an war which is really not cheap. just to find an excuse for the weapon industrie? nah there would be smarter way then killin thousends of americans (irak anyone :))
Weapon industrie, yeah :)
- terror marketing -
Quote from: Peja on May 02, 2011, 10:18 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
kinda true but i dont get the link between 9 11. tell me, why the us economy should be interested in an terror strike which f@#!s ups up wallstreet and obviously folowed by an war which is really not cheap.
Gold took 1000% that day and actions of air transport compagny crashed, experts noticed that several actions were sold the day before 9/11, something like 200% more than usual, some people knew it, it's a fact
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 10:37 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
C'mon guys don't be so naive.
Do you really think Bush / Obama are leading the USA ?
About the towers, they found some explosives traces, some bombs were placed there.
One of the tower that also exploded was the archive on the CIA.. strange no?
Also, NYC is one of the most protected city, but this day, US air forces weren't around, they were in some mission in canada or i dont know where.. Isn't this strange ? :P
Oh, and also they found the passport of a terrorist gently placed on the pile of debry after the explosion...
Anyway, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, just saying there something we don't know, and the story they said at TV wasn't the truth. Even some american journalist admitted it.
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
You are saying that it's a conspiracy.
You are claiming that bombs brought down the twin towers.
Can't get much more of a conspiracy theory than that!
I bet you watched the video 'loose change' didn't you? I watched it too and was then convinced 9/11 was an inside job. I was absolutely amazed at what I saw and how it was so obviously a cover up.
A few years down the line, I look back at how absolutely f@#!ing stupid I was. Seriously.
Falling for the 9/11 conspiracy and then realising how wrong I was taught me some valuable lessons.
You have been severely misguided by the information you've read on 9/11 and I hope you spend some time digging a little deeper on the subject.
I haven't seen this video, but I've seen several documentary on french TV about it.
And I'm trusting in the "conspiracy" theories in a general way, not "paranoid" way like "omfg they all wants to kill us", more like there are some hidden mega-puissances that control the world, and we, ordinary people, don't have a clue of what they do.
And yes I was describing some conspiracy, but I'm not claiming it's the truth, was just some theories. I just wouldn't be surprise that US governement could be involved in all this story. USA are the best in "terror marketing".
If I find some free time I could try to document myself more about it, but actually I'm not sure we are going to know the truth one day.
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:47 PM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 10:37 PM
Quote from: THeDoGG on May 02, 2011, 10:09 PM
C'mon guys don't be so naive.
Do you really think Bush / Obama are leading the USA ?
About the towers, they found some explosives traces, some bombs were placed there.
One of the tower that also exploded was the archive on the CIA.. strange no?
Also, NYC is one of the most protected city, but this day, US air forces weren't around, they were in some mission in canada or i dont know where.. Isn't this strange ? :P
Oh, and also they found the passport of a terrorist gently placed on the pile of debry after the explosion...
Anyway, I'm not saying it's a conspiracy, just saying there something we don't know, and the story they said at TV wasn't the truth. Even some american journalist admitted it.
Economics rules the world, it's sad but its like this !!!
You are saying that it's a conspiracy.
You are claiming that bombs brought down the twin towers.
Can't get much more of a conspiracy theory than that!
I bet you watched the video 'loose change' didn't you? I watched it too and was then convinced 9/11 was an inside job. I was absolutely amazed at what I saw and how it was so obviously a cover up.
A few years down the line, I look back at how absolutely f@#!ing stupid I was. Seriously.
Falling for the 9/11 conspiracy and then realising how wrong I was taught me some valuable lessons.
You have been severely misguided by the information you've read on 9/11 and I hope you spend some time digging a little deeper on the subject.
I just wouldn't be surprise that US governement could be involved in all this story.
Well yeah. I'm sure that could be true.
However it deserves to be said that this is a million miles away from the claim that the US government deliberately and knowingly killed thousands of their own people by putting explosives in the WTC.
The only things I was really interested in about 9/11 was whether it was rigged with explosives and the truth about tower 7. The missile and the pentagon were cool too. It's all damn interesting anyway. JFK, bigfoot, the moon landings etc. All of that shit is great fun to explore.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 10:58 PM
Well yeah. I'm sure that could be true.
However it deserves to be said that this is a million miles away from the claim that the US government deliberately and knowingly killed thousands of their own people by putting explosives in the WTC.
The only things I was really interested in about 9/11 was whether it was rigged with explosives and the truth about tower 7. The missile and the pentagon were cool too. It's all damn interesting anyway. JFK, bigfoot, the moon landings etc. All of that shit is great fun to explore.
Hehe yeah true, actually I dont think it could be US governement, more some puissances over it.
Anyway yeah, so many misteries fun to explore :)
whos bin laden btw, wtf
personally, i think 9/11 wasnt a conspiracy or anything like that, i think it was a terrible attrocity, yes the us government cold possibly have done more to thwart it, but then again, how were they to know what would happen?
I was 13 when it happened, and remember being shocked, very shocked.
can someone explain me whats going on?
Quote from: nino on May 03, 2011, 01:21 AM
can someone explain me whats going on?
osama bin laden is obama's brother (:
I watched many stuff about 9.11 and my thoughts are bigger on us's goverment manipulation, its just too weird nobody stopped the planes before crash, even workers say they heard some explosions before airplane contact to the twins, bush its a f@#!er, us wins tons of money with wars osama its just an excuse, terrorist acts gives ppl fear, they feel vulnerable, us goverment can protect them against them! lets put out our weaps and defend our ppl! we want the fuel too :p they gotta show picts about him dead indeed, maybe he's still alive some torture to reveal plans against the infidels o he might be dining with osama atm.
I was just watching some 9/11 youtube vid with twins towers crashing and there's a comment underneath saying:
"10 years, 2 wars, 919,967 deaths, and $1,188,263,000,000 later; America has killed one man. lol"
xD
But really, it's all like a bad movie scenario. Almost every government of every state on the world is full of bullshit. They just tries and wants to manipulate/control the masses with their acts and their stories/propaganda.. And people are usually as a herd of sheeps, following them blindly.. Most of ppl are mediocre who would believe in anything they hear on TV.. :/
Lets just hope that those powerful mofos won't decide to have a nuclear war, all of the rest comparing to that is just a bad movie scenario, a child play...
http://www.mojnet.rs/video-mrtvo-telo-osama-bin-ladna/2edc791eb6d353d7772b
(http://i55.tinypic.com/2nk8j84.jpg)
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 10:58 PMthe US government deliberately and knowingly killed thousands of their own people by putting explosives in the WTC.
You really think they care of it ?
We are just sheeps who bring money to the government. If they can get more money from other people, they won't mind leaving you dead.
All you'll see and found is what they want you to know. But we're far from the truth, believe me.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 10:44 AM
But we're far from the truth, believe me.
Perhaps you'd get closer to it if you weren't quote mining, like you did with Cueshark's post ;)
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 10:44 AM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 10:58 PMthe US government deliberately and knowingly killed thousands of their own people by putting explosives in the WTC.
You really think they care of it ?
We are just sheeps who bring money to the government. If they can get more money from other people, they won't mind leaving you dead.
All you'll see and found is what they want you to know. But we're far from the truth, believe me.
We're not just talking one or two evil people who would gladly kill 5000 of their fellow man. We're talking about a whole team of people.
If the US government organised 9/11, how many people do you think it took to plan and execute it?
I would say a fairly large number of people.
A large number of people working in the US government, from the controlled demolition company (for the explosives), the airlines, the military, the fire service, potentially the media.
All these people worked together to plan mass murder on their own people or at the very least cover it up.
I have a bit more faith in humanity than you do.
Now, I'm not saying that governments can't be greedy. And I'm not saying that governments can't plan conspiracies. But this kind of complex conspiracy, requiring the cooperation of many many people all confortable with the idea of murdering thousands of their brothers and sisters.
Nahhhhh.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 08, 2011, 12:18 PM
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 10:44 AM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 02, 2011, 10:58 PMthe US government deliberately and knowingly killed thousands of their own people by putting explosives in the WTC.
You really think they care of it ?
We are just sheeps who bring money to the government. If they can get more money from other people, they won't mind leaving you dead.
All you'll see and found is what they want you to know. But we're far from the truth, believe me.
We're not just talking one or two evil people who would gladly kill 5000 of their fellow man. We're talking about a whole team of people.
If the US government organised 9/11, how many people do you think it took to plan and execute it?
I would say a fairly large number of people.
A large number of people working in the US government, from the controlled demolition company (for the explosives), the airlines, the military, the fire service, potentially the media.
All these people worked together to plan mass murder on their own people or at the very least cover it up.
I have a bit more faith in humanity than you do.
Now, I'm not saying that governments can't be greedy. And I'm not saying that governments can't plan conspiracies. But this kind of complex conspiracy, requiring the cooperation of many many people all confortable with the idea of murdering thousands of their brothers and sisters.
Nahhhhh.
well u have some right in here but it has already happend, so tell my why it would be easier to do something complex like that for some foreign terrorists from another side of the world, than speciallised and well managed goverment workers?? coz i dont find it more probable
Complex ? They control everything, why would it be so hard to give an order ?
We know nothing about what's happenning in our back. We only get supposition.
But the way it is nowadays, we can't believe what they tell us (even if it means conspiracy and all that stuff).
f@#! the world, live in peace & live free !
-.- dont bother cue Xd
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 03:10 PM
Complex ? They control everything, why would it be so hard to give an order ?
We know nothing about what's happenning in our back. We only get supposition.
But the way it is nowadays, we can't believe what they tell us (even if it means conspiracy and all that stuff).
f@#! the world, live in peace & live free !
So complex and clever, controlling everything. Every piece of information is controlled by the government so we only know what they want us to know.....
But all of this deception is not clever enough for Abnaxus. Abnaxus sees right through the conspiracy. It's clever and complex...but not too clever and complex for Abnaxus. He knows exactly what the government is up to and he will not be fooled!
Hurrrrah!!!!
Can I get stoned with you one day?
Quote from: Cueshark on May 08, 2011, 04:19 PMBut all of this deception is not clever enough for Abnaxus. Abnaxus sees right through the conspiracy. It's clever and complex...but not too clever and complex for Abnaxus. He knows exactly what the government is up to and he will not be fooled!
You forgot an important part:
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 03:10 PMWe know nothing about what's happenning in our back. We only get supposition.
By "we", I meant "everybody". Even me.
Am I a god to you ? I don't get why you put me on a dais. But I'll take it as a compliment: thanks.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 08, 2011, 04:19 PMCan I get stoned with you one day?
Sure you can. :D
Quote from: Cueshark on May 08, 2011, 04:19 PMHurrrrah!!!!
Huuuurrrrraaaaah !!! (For me for sure !) ;)
Seriously: Stir it up. :]
PS: I love the way you act differently with people you know and doesn't know. Even when it is the same person. .)
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 08:26 PMPS: I love the way you act differently with people you know and doesn't know. Even when it is the same person. .)
Why do you assume this?
Even my best friend I'd give a hard time for this kind of sillyness.
In fact I did do. My best friend used to be a 'truther'. I tore him a new one.
You didn't understand how government could kill his own people and I told you a possible and easy way. :)
Is that sillyness ?!
Don't be silly... ;)
PS: Since we don't know what is wrong or right, you can do what you want. BUT, do never forget the other possibility.
That's what I meant by "the other side of the wall" on a certain thread.
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWfuXJOQ2PdMc3KqjGZXh4CEj6aww4ckwiKy3l4Emto-oWQQQm)
What are you smoking, abnaxus?
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 09:06 PM
You didn't understand how government could kill his own people and I told you a possible and easy way. :)
Is that sillyness ?!
Don't be silly... ;)
PS: Since we don't know what is wrong or right, you can do what you want. BUT, do never forget the other possibility.
That's what I meant by "the other side of the wall" on a certain thread.
No. I don't believe that a huge network of people connected to the US government would conspire to slaughter thousands of their own people by laying bombs and hijacking planes. People individually may be that evil....but the amount of people required for this conspiracy makes it completely implausible.
Forget how it could be possible for a moment and just think of what you're suggesting.
And to this day, not one of these many people involved with the inside job have had a guilt trip and exposed the truth....even anonymously.
I'm sure governments have committed murder on their own people. I was never arguing that.
I was just arguing 9/11.
I'm not sure you really think this was an inside job. I think you're talking more generally about governments.
@Rok: Some skunk, but I guess the rolling paper is getting me bad. :D (Kidding.)
@Cue: About the amount of people: money solves the problem. Plus I'm sure governments get some dudes in many company, so it is plausible.
1) There is too much coincidences (doesn't mean it can't be true).
2) USA needed a reason to attack the arabian countries, so they could get the petrol.
And as someone supposed me, it could be another act of Cold War between USA & Russia. But this is still suppositions.
3) I'm pretty sure there is a high conspiracy in the world between some countries. But I don't really care much of it, since I can't do anything about it, neither to proove it.
1 which has always been there. The second (governments etc) who just copycated it.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 10:12 PM@Cue: About the amount of people: money solves the problem.
So all of the people involved in this massive conspiracy need to be paid loads of money to kill thousands of people.....and the whole point of this conspiracy in the first place is to make loads of money....
Not exactly good business logic is it?
But then this is George Bush we're talking about I suppose :P
You don't need to pay a lot of people: A "terrorist" to hijack the plane, and a group to land bombs in the building (and tons of mouth shut).
It's sure I know nothing about it except what I saw (not heard), but there is too much weird things in such cases.
And we all know they don't give us the whole/real story, which means they get something to hide. So why would I believe them ?
Anyway, I can't find the point which makes you feel it's implausible.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 08, 2011, 10:33 PMYou don't need to pay a lot of people: A "terrorist" to hijack the plane, and a group to land bombs in the building (and tons of mouth shut).
I usually like to respond off my own back but take a read of this link.
I don't claim this is proof of my point but it follows my thinking and is more of an exhaustive list than I could possibly come up with.
All the people who would have to be involved in order to pull this massive conspiracy off... (http://"http://www.debunking911.com/massivect.htm")
In any case. The conspiracy we're talking about would involve a lot of people. Far beyond plausibility.
IMO.
A conspiracy with more than 100 people involved would never work. Someone would leak it. IMO. :P
Not necessarily.
10 to 15 people would be enough to plan and execute it.
I don't hold much truth to US government officials executing the attacks. What seems more probable to me is that intelligence services were aware of the impending attack (they were warned by other countries.. and well, there's the stories of people being told not to go to work.. if these people knew, there's a very reasonable chance the US intelligence also knew). So yeah, you don't need to make 911 happen, you just need to enable it to happen (provided you've got a good agenda to make the sacrifice & risks worthwhile).
Such an operation wouldn't require too many people. Some 10 conspirators at the top wanting it to happen, and some 10 more to execute it (that is, keep the fighters away, mislead the national defence, formulate a story to be brought to the media right after the attacks, etc.). And if you want to, add a few more for additional purposes (destroying WTC7, pentagon??).
Most people involved can be used as pawns. They can be made to do things without being aware of their part in the scheme.
Anyone who watched the movie Valkyrie about the coup of Stauffenberg & co against Hitler knows this.
The list of 'conspirators' back then was very very long: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_20_July_plot And yet, Hitler was caught by complete surprise.
Nevertheless, at the same time, how many people were really needed to execute the operation?
One man to plan it. (Stauffenberg).
One man to get the means (the bombs).
One man to plan the bomb (Stauffenberg again) and one man to assist him.
One radio operator to keep messages from going out of the Wolfsschanze.
A small selection of men ready to take government in their hands.
I don't think more than 25 people played any significant role in the event.
Same thing could have been on 9/11. You really don't need thousands of people.
I didn't well understood what's saying on the link, but I guess you don't need so much people to do such a thing.
A blitz attack conspiracy well planned would work with a group of 10 people. Even for the twin towers.
They wouldn't be able to find any bomb clues because of the fall of the towers, all the products it contained and the "sand" cloud.
It's as plausible as a terrorist act.
PS: If it really was a conspiracy, what do you think people would say in this current debate ?
Nothing more and nothing less than what we already said. Just cause we don't know, and it's 50-50.
PSS: IMO (this is not objective anymore), government engaged some guys to commit this "terrorist" act (just the planes). Just so they could get petrol access.
Do I have any clues ? Nop, it's just my point of view. :)
Quote from: HHC on May 09, 2011, 12:25 AMthere's the stories of people being told not to go to work..
To be exact it was the story that a large number of Jews who worked in the twin towers were warned not to go to work that day.
Completely false. There's no basis in truth for this.
Also, I don't know why you are comparing the 20 July plot to 9/11.
Are you just trying to show that 'a plan' can be executed with less than 25 people? But because both mention bombs they become comparable?
I'd like to add to HHC posts, that a plane were supposed to (http://www.avforums.com/forums/avatars/447793.gif?dateline=1299063579) on the pentagon. But for unknown reasons, he (http://biphome.spray.se/boggy_b/falldamage.gif) himself near it.
It's like a "Look ! They tryed to kill me, I can't be the killer !". But it's just a "try", so it doesn't mean anything.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 12:57 AM
I'd like to add to HHC posts, that a plane were supposed to (http://www.avforums.com/forums/avatars/447793.gif?dateline=1299063579) on the pentagon. But for unknown reasons, he crashed himself near it.
It's like a "Look ! They tryed to kill me, I can't be the killer !". But it's just a "try", so it doesn't mean anything.
A plane did hit the pentagon.
I understood that the plane that crashed to the ground was possibly intended for the whitehouse?
So now you're suggesting (rather jokingly) that the crashed plane (Flight 93) was a kind of deliberate error just to make the conspiracy more convincing?
Please explain what you mean before I start getting mad.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 01:17 AMSo now you're suggesting (rather jokingly) that the crashed plane (Flight 93) was a kind of deliberate error just to make the conspiracy more convincing?
That's it. At least it could be and would fit with the rest.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 01:34 AM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 01:17 AMSo now you're suggesting (rather jokingly) that the crashed plane (Flight 93) was a kind of deliberate error just to make the conspiracy more convincing?
That's it. At least it could be and would fit with the rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Airlines_Flight_93
There's the wiki entry on flight 93.
Honestly mate. We're different animals.
I could not disrespect those innocent people like you do. On so many levels what you write is filth.
If it's genuinely your opinion then I respect it. But if you're just not thinking about your responses then that is your fault and you deserve rebuke.
we should make some worms movie about this stories: a map with twin towers, some worms working in their office, and some supersheeps as terrorists attacking them xddd
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 12:51 AM
Are you just trying to show that 'a plan' can be executed with less than 25 people? But because both mention bombs they become comparable?
Both rely on having conspirators in just a few key positions.
And yeah, you don't need to have more than 25 people in on it in order to execute such a large scale deception operation. The link you posted saying the media, the victims, the firemen, the police, etc. etc. need to be in on it is bogus.
Btw, are you disrepecting victims if you think the whole thing is a conspiracy? I dun think so. That's just playing on emotions.
We will never know for sure though. JFK's assassination is also shrouded in mystery and the lone gunman theory does sound a little improbable, but 50 years later we still don't know who really did it.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 08:27 AMI could not disrespect those innocent people like you do. On so many levels what you write is filth.
Wtf !? Are you kidding me there ? You really got me angry there.
Because you really think letting as it is, without even trying to find the truth is respecting the innocent who died faggot ? You should be happy not being in front of me when you said that.
I try to help innocents everytime I can and you say I don't respect them ? Seriously, go get a brain & burn yourself.
It's cause of people like you if many good people died. Saying there are horrible to get the world against them. f@#! you, really.
USA had many members of Al-Quaida as prisoners. A single deal and it was done. There is tons of possibilities for a conspiracy. If you prefer keep a veil on it, then do it, I f@#!ing don't mind anymore.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 11:34 AM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 08:27 AMI could not disrespect those innocent people like you do. On so many levels what you write is filth.
Wtf !? Are you kidding me there ? You really got me angry there.
Because you really think letting as it is, without even trying to find the truth is respecting the innocent who died faggot ? You should be happy not being in front of me when you said that.
I try to help innocents everytime I can and you say I don't respect them ? Seriously, go get a brain & burn yourself.
It's cause of people like you if many good people died. Saying there are horrible to get the world against them. f@#! you, really.
USA had many members of Al-Quaida as prisoners. A single deal and it was done. There is tons of possibilities for a conspiracy. If you prefer keep a veil on it, then do it, I f@#!ing don't mind anymore.
A plane was hijacked. Some very heroic people put up a fight and helped bring the plane down before it reached it's target. Their memory should be respected.
Saying that their deaths were planned by an evil government in the name of money is just down right wrong, down right disrespectful and I sincerely believe that you should expect anger in response to such bullshit.
I am sorry if I offended you but you offended me by what you said too.
When I was researching 9/11. Listening to the phone calls, answering messages etc left by those victims. It was extremely harrowing to listen to the reality of what those poor people faced on that tragic day.
When I listen to arm chair conspiracy theorists and their wacky ideas it makes me very upset.
You are basically taking all responsibility away from the real perpetrators and putting it where it doesn't belong.
This is filth on so many levels.
Let's not fall out over this. At the end of the day it's a difference of opinion. Unfortunately I have personal investment into 9/11 and there is overwhelming evidence that the official story of flight 93 is the correct one.
I'm very sorry for upsetting you. I was upset too.
Let's just not take this conversation further and we'll avoid falling out over it ok?
Supposing that all of this is real:
First, for me it is the worst choice that Obama can even taken.
Why?
-Osama Bin Laden could has been the worst man in the world, the devil in person,but he was a man. And any man in the world has the right to be judged before the sentence.
And the most important thing: Nobody has the right to decide about the life or death of someone.
USA entered to the house and killed Osama and drop him in the sea. With what right? He was in other country, the authorities of that country must decide about the people who lives there, not USA.
USA should has been retired all its army of that countries and leave them in peace. They should expend all that money that expend in the war to social things, to develop their echonomy, to develop their culture.
I've heard in the media of my country people saying that USA always needs to have a super-hero and a super-villain XD. Osama bin laden's image grew up with USA. If USA stopped the war Osama never has made anything.
i'm terribly against the war, and more against THIS war. I can't believe it. It's so
stupid. When i saw a group of americans happy for Bin Laden's death i thought: naaaah! what stupid people, OMG!. This "war" is stupid.
USA; please press alt+f4 of the game. Please God, if you are the hoster of all this game, if you are the HostingBuddy that allows us to play this game called "life",
write !Kick USA. I want to see: America is quitting from arabic world (reason: kicked by Chanserv).
Second, I've heard in the TV that in the Islamic religion only the people dead in the seacan be dropped to the water, if someone dies in the earth it can't be dropped to the sea.
I don't know about that religion and if it is true, but if it is true: FAIL!
And thirst: Good Job USA for killing him! Now al-qaeda is angry and all the world is in
danger :D. LOL, killing them the leader is nothing. They are a big group with strong
religious values, they won't dissappear if their leader is dead. All the opposite, they can
get more dangerous and strong now :O, and they will find other leader late or early :O, or
maybe Bin laden can be, since now, his excuse to be more united. They will fight for his
leader's memory :O :O :O !
Cue ur opinion counts but doesnt mean ur right at all. I sincerly dont trust on a a goverment that got rich by stealing black ppl and making them slaves, gets me to think u know...Let's pay some money to a few to win tons of cash, few deads wont matter, number 1 country us wannabe, they have many weaps, they lose money when they dont use the weaps they have made for that long, so this is a good excuse for ppl aproval to go at war and send ppl childs to die while this f@#!ers get richer. Let's send some bombs if ur brown! weird eh? brown ppl always get the worse part we love wars we are good at it persian golf had the best rating on tv that any other f@#!ing program, u remember any white ppl united states have bombed? lol nah germans! lol but only coz they wanted to dominate the world, f@#! that thats united states job step a side! har i don't believe any shit that the goverment tells me.
@Abnaxus,
You realize you're crossing the line which you used to blame other people doing the same?
Quote from: Devilage on May 09, 2011, 02:35 PM
Cue ur opinion counts but doesnt mean ur right at all. I sincerly dont trust on a a goverment that got rich by stealing black ppl and making them slaves, gets me to think u know...Let's pay some money to a few to win tons of cash, few deads wont matter, number 1 country us wannabe, they have many weaps, they lose money when they dont use the weaps they have made for that long, so this is a good excuse for ppl aproval to go at war and send ppl childs to die while this f@#!ers get richer. Let's send some bombs if ur brown! weird eh? brown ppl always get the worse part we love wars we are good at it persian golf had the best rating on tv that any other f@#!ing program, u remember any white ppl united states have bombed? lol nah germans! lol but only coz they wanted to dominate the world, f@#! that thats united states job step a side! har i don't believe any shit that the goverment tells me.
That's fair enough.
To me it's not about trusting governments or believing what someone is telling me. It's about looking at the evidence and deciding what is actually true.
I fell into the trap of believing that the government was behind 9/11. When I very carefully examined the evidence I changed my mind.
There are lots of example of governments acting badly and committing crimes. It doesn't mean that there were bombs in the world trade centre or that a missile hit the pentagon.
Hate governments all you want but don't let personal factors decide something is true when it really isn't.
Thats why iam fair with my slaves.
I let them work for me and i even give they 3 meals a day.
how u know u fell into the trap the goverment is not behind 9/11? ur point of view, well mine says they were.
@Cue,
This is filth 'cause they are flith.
Just put yourself in their shoes, with their power, their money, their past and their mind. And you would easly think they could have done such a horrible thing (doesn't mean they did, I repeat myself (as I always do)).
Plus, on what did you get your "proofs" ?
- Videos: I don't think so. Anyway, they could have made it (a movie is easy to make).
- Sound: Is it that hard to make a false tape ?
- If you saw it by yourself (which I doubt), then you're right.
The only thing I did was to enumerate the different possibilities, without being biase one single second (except when I said it). Then you "attacked" me personnaly.
It's clear you can't get your emotions out of this discussion. And if you can't be objective, there is no need to debate.
To finish, I agree we should stop talking (I let you the last word, I guess you want it badly).
@MI,
Since he said the worst insult towards me, I sure am in right to react that way.
I've never blamed Maciej, DT or anybody else when they insulted back.
Eye for eye, teeth for teeth, that's how the world should work (and it works this way for me, whatever anybody thinks, even there).
You know I really don't mind of getting banned, and you also know I don't deserve anything about this last post.
Then, if you get offended by what I just said, you're free to do whatever you want.
If nobody starts, nobody answers.
Oh and btw guys, do you know there are more people dying in Africa each days than in NYC at 9/11.
ooy Cue, i know my words wont convince you but check this video
i dont get it why sm1 can dont get it :<
Quote from: Devilage on May 09, 2011, 07:41 PM
how u know u fell into the trap the goverment is not behind 9/11? ur point of view, well mine says they were.
Fine.
Well the only way to flesh this topic out is to talk about the evidence.
If anyone wants to provide evidence that the US government was behind the 9/11 attack feel free to do so and we can have a rational debate.
I am also prepared to change my mind on this subject. Show me compelling evidence that the US government was behind 9/11 and I promise that I will change my position. I will only enter a debate with people who are also prepared to change their minds on this matter. Otherwise it's a waste of time.
What's the point in having a debate, showing evidence for our points of view if no one will change their mind if the arguments are convincing enough?
---------
Abnaxus, I apologised already about offending you so either accept my apology or don't. But remember I didn't call you a faggot or say f@#! you or tell you to burn or anything like that. I attacked your words but I did not attack you directly. At least I thought that was the case.
I understood that you made a firm claim that the Flight 93 was part of the conspiracy. A deliberate loss of life by the government to make the rest of the conspiracy seem more convincing. You made that claim didn't you?
It sounds like you are now saying that you were just exploring the different possibilities. If this was the case and I misunderstood you then this is my fault and I apologise once again.
I've saw things over the internet, read stuff, heard stuff...Even read ur stuff, and I still support my theory, could be a debate but i doubt u change ur mind if u say u alrdy digged enough to prove us wrong. Anyways doggs has right talking bout few ppl on 9/11 while Afrika dies of hunger and Us spends lots of money on war hehe but it's ok they're are just defending their selves.
Quote from: Devilage on May 09, 2011, 09:22 PM
I've saw things over the internet, read stuff, heard stuff...Even read ur stuff, and I still support my theory, could be a debate but i doubt u change ur mind if u say u alrdy digged enough to prove us wrong. Anyways doggs has right talking bout few ppl on 9/11 while Afrika dies of hunger and Us spends lots of money on war hehe but it's ok they're are just defending their selves.
Well yah. The subject of Africa is definitely worth discussing perhaps in another thread.
You never told me your theory on 9/11 anyway. But np.
seen my video??? tell me what about black ppl slavery time ago in usa?? goverment are sick ppl and u dont see what they show in tv? its only bullshit, now they are attacking kaddafi or wtf his name was but not so long ago they were hugging with each other and they just dont caaaare about all those soliders who dies on those wars...
Quote from: theredi on May 09, 2011, 08:37 PM
ooy Cue, i know my words wont convince you but check this video
i dont get it why sm1 can dont get it :<
Yay Jedi Mind Tricks for the win !!! I used to love their songs, I dont like much their new style tho (too much hardcore IMO, but just my tastes).
Anyway those guys are a little bit paranoid :D But what they say is "kind of" true.. But they trust about Illuminatis and stuff .. Oh yeah ! Lets start to debates about Illuminatis !!! And this thread will just never ends XD
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 09:04 PM
I attacked your words but I did not attack you directly.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 08:27 AMI could not disrespect those innocent people like you do.
This insult is worst than 90% of the known insults in my eyes.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 09:04 PMI understood that you made a firm claim that the Flight 93 was part of the conspiracy. A deliberate loss of life by the government to make the rest of the conspiracy seem more convincing. You made that claim didn't you?
It sounds like you are now saying that you were just exploring the different possibilities. If this was the case and I misunderstood you then this is my fault and I apologise once again.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 12:57 AM
I'd like to add to HHC posts, that a plane were supposed to (http://www.avforums.com/forums/avatars/447793.gif?dateline=1299063579) on the pentagon. But for unknown reasons, he (http://biphome.spray.se/boggy_b/falldamage.gif) himself near it.
It's like a "Look ! They tryed to kill me, I can't be the killer !". But it's just a "try", so it doesn't mean anything.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 01:34 AMThat's it. At least it could be and would fit with the rest.
Too finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy,
but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.
Quote from: theredi on May 09, 2011, 09:49 PM
seen my video??? tell me what about black ppl slavery time ago in usa?? goverment are sick ppl and u dont see what they show in tv? its only bullshit, now they are attacking kaddafi or wtf his name was but not so long ago they were hugging with each other and they just dont caaaare about all those soliders who dies on those wars...
I'll watch it man and report back.
People are sick though, you're right. Humans are capable of the most vile acts. If bad people get in power then real bad things can happen. We only have to look at history to know that bad people in power can commit mass murder, exploit and enslave their people etc. Not just that. Studies in psychology like Milgram and Zimbardo show that otherwise good people can be made to do extremely bad things under such authority.
To me the problem nowadays is religion. It's the biggest killer.
9/11 was driven by religion.
Those hijackers were doing this act in the name of Allah.
If you read the transcript from the flight recorder of Flight 93. It was played in a courtroom in front of many people but the audio was never released. However the transcript is available.
These are the last moments of flight 93 which was brought down before it reached it's target. Tood Beamer, a passenger, apparently attempted to make a credit card call but was re-routed to a customer service representative. Todd explained that him and some other passengers were planning to jump on the hijackers and force the plane down early. This makes sense when you read the flight recording because the transcript shows them instructing each other to pull leavers and disconnect power etc.
09:33:34 In the name of Allah, the most merciful, the most compassionate.
----------
And the last moments.
10:03:04 Allah is the greatest.
10:03:06 Allah is the greatest.
10:03;06 Allah is the greatest.
10:03:07 No.
10:03:09 Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.
10:03:09 Allah is the greatest. Allah is the greatest.
Let's not pull this away from the conspiracy debate but I just wanted to throw that in there.
Don't you find the "conversation" weird ?
Plus, I think religion has nothing to do with deaths. At least if everybody could respect eachother religion.
The biggest killer has always been and will always be the Human (except if some E.Ts come from another galaxy).
If Human wasn't so greedy, the world would be so much better..
Ok man. I'm sorry. When you said "that's it" - I took that to mean you were confirming that you were claiming it was a conspiracy despite your following words.
I'm glad you are sitting on the fence and not deciding each way.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 10:06 PMbut you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
Ok, here's where we disagree. I believe that there is absolutely no evidence that this was a controlled demolition. No one put bombs in the building. If there's no evidence of it then why would anyone believes it's true.
There is overwhelming evidence that Al-Qaeda terrorists hijacked planes and flew them into the WTC. We all saw the planes hit and the buildings fall down.
We can talk about the demolitions themselves. Loose Change does a great job of making them look suspicious by showing certain angles of the buildings falling and not showing pictures which present a clear picture. Controlled demolitions start from the bottom of buildings, the twin towers fell from the top. The angle wasn't straight down http://www.debunking911.com/collapse.htm
You can also watch videos of controlled demolitions and the sound that they make. No such sounds are present on eye witness footage during the collapses.
So from this evidence I discount the controlled demolition theory.
To me, we have strong evidence of who did this, why. No evidence of foul play.
So I disagree. We have strong and overwhelming evidence and I can firmly say it's strong enough evidence to form an opinion.
What more evidence do you need man?
Tell me and I'll provide it!
*edit* - Also, are we friends again? :<
no1 says it wasnt al-quaida but al-quaida has many common things with cia and usa goverment so add 2 to 2
Quote from: theredi on May 09, 2011, 11:04 PM
no1 says it wasnt al-quaida but al-quaida has many common things with cia and usa goverment so add 2 to 2
Can you be more specific dude?
Thanks for the images, I exactly needed those one to put the bomb theory out (at least at the base).
But imo (this is my though there), the government organized those plane crashes (could be actors or real Al-Quaida members).
I don't have any evidences, but: there is no war, only earnings.
Let me just point out that governments consist of people like you and me. People with different opinions, beliefs, ideals.. Especially in the west there is no THE government, there's only politicians, human beings, who like others are trying to do good. :)
Quote from: HHC on May 09, 2011, 11:53 PM
Let me just point out that governments consist of people like you and me. People with different opinions, beliefs, ideals.. Especially in the west there is no THE government, there's only politicians, human beings, who like others are trying to do good. :)
+1
I don't know how it works in the USA, but I can tell you that French politicians don't care of the country or people, but only of their wallet.
I miss the "De Gaule" I have in mind. :/
Quote from: Bob MarleyWe're sick and tired of your ism and skism game
Die 'n' go to heaven in the Jesus name, Lord
We know when we understand
Almighty God is a living man
You can fool some people sometimes
But you can't fool all the people all the time
So now you see the light
You stand up for your rights
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 11:27 PMBut imo (this is my though there), the government organized those plane crashes (could be actors or real Al-Quaida members).
I don't have any evidences, but: there is no war, only earnings.
Ok, well if it's real Al-Quaida members then they're not actors. Plus I don't think you're going to get many actors willing to stab and murder people like the terrorists did. They didn't just ask nicely for permission to fly those planes. They murdered.
Ok so in your mind right now it is more likely that the government organised those plane crashes.
Would you mind if I show you compelling evidence that this is probably not true?
If MonkeyIsland would say what he thinks about all of this, I guess FBI would close TUS forever... ;x
so ssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh~! ;o
Regarding 911 conspiracies - I was like Cue; I watched Loose Change and I was sold. Few years later and more researched, my view has changed. Like HHC's view, I feel like the government had knowledge of these attacks. There are some things that still seem shady, imo... most shady would be WTC7... BBC reported WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it did, there were only small pockets of fire in WTC7, the whole thing with the owner of WTC7 just seems like fishy business... idk.. Haven't researched it in a while but WTC7 was always the odd part of the story for me.
Regarding government - USA is definitely controlled by corporations... it is sickening... the media along with the f@#!ing worthless Constitution prevents any 3rd party candidates from ever making a serious run at president, although the president has little power compared to Congress... but the same deal goes for Congress... stupid winner-take-all voting system makes voting for 3rd parties useless... and the reason I bring up independent parties is because they aren't f@#!ed up the ass with corporate agendas.. at least not nearly as much as the Republicans and Democrats. The government is run by greed... I wouldn't put it past them to off some people for a buck... maybe not as large scale as 9/11 (though it did benefit them), but you know... the CIA has been doing it for years. f@#!ing capitalism does this... slaughtering American Indians, enslaving Blacks, and countless wars are all forms of unregulated capitalism.
Regarding Bin Laden's death - When I watched the news and saw people cheering in the streets, I cringed. Was absolutely ridiculous and those people gave the image of America a terrible stain, imo.Please (addressing this to anyone) don't make blanket statements about all Americans just because some assholes were excited about the death of one man. They use the claim "he killed 3000 of us!" well I would love to direct those people to the statistics on civilian deaths during the Iraq War... over 100k now. Imagine how the USA is looked at by Iraqis... a group of radical Muslims kill 3000 over here, we invade them and kill over 100k, and now they see us rejoicing in the streets over more death.
Bye bye :)
Quote from: ShyGuy on May 10, 2011, 01:26 AM
Regarding 911 conspiracies - I was like Cue; I watched Loose Change and I was sold. Few years later and more researched, my view has changed. Like HHC's view, I feel like the government had knowledge of these attacks. There are some things that still seem shady, imo... most shady would be WTC7... BBC reported WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it did, there were only small pockets of fire in WTC7, the whole thing with the owner of WTC7 just seems like fishy business... idk.. Haven't researched it in a while but WTC7 was always the odd part of the story for me.
Regarding government - USA is definitely controlled by corporations... it is sickening... the media along with the f@#!ing worthless Constitution prevents any 3rd party candidates from ever making a serious run at president, although the president has little power compared to Congress... but the same deal goes for Congress... stupid winner-take-all voting system makes voting for 3rd parties useless... and the reason I bring up independent parties is because they aren't f@#!ed up the ass with corporate agendas.. at least not nearly as much as the Republicans and Democrats. The government is run by greed... I wouldn't put it past them to off some people for a buck... maybe not as large scale as 9/11 (though it did benefit them), but you know... the CIA has been doing it for years. f@#!ing capitalism does this... slaughtering American Indians, enslaving Blacks, and countless wars are all forms of unregulated capitalism.
Regarding Bin Laden's death - When I watched the news and saw people cheering in the streets, I cringed. Was absolutely ridiculous and those people gave the image of America a terrible stain, imo.Please (addressing this to anyone) don't make blanket statements about all Americans just because some assholes were excited about the death of one man. They use the claim "he killed 3000 of us!" well I would love to direct those people to the statistics on civilian deaths during the Iraq War... over 100k now. Imagine how the USA is looked at by Iraqis... a group of radical Muslims kill 3000 over here, we invade them and kill over 100k, and now they see us rejoicing in the streets over more death.
Bye bye :)
I completely agree. No one seems to give a shit about the civilians. The wrong places do get bombed and it's labelled collatoral damage so that's ok.
Regarding WTC7. The fires were not small pockets. The place was absolutely engulged. They gave up hope and it fell. Irrespective of what was enclosed in those buildings that is what happened.
I got some seriously overwhelming evidence that conclusively closes the door on a controlled demolition on wtc7.
Objective:Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMOk, well if it's real Al-Quaida members then they're not actors.
That's why I used a "or" ? o0
Do you really read my posts ? Or is my english that bad ? <.<
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMPlus I don't think you're going to get many actors willing to stab and murder people like the terrorists did. They didn't just ask nicely for permission to fly those planes. They murdered.
If some terrorists have been able to stab and murder people, why can't some pro USA ?
The government could give them the right to fly those planes. The "drivers" could have been involved in the conspiracy too.
Nothing can proove the contrary.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMOk so in your mind right now it is more likely that the government organised those plane crashes.
Why right now ? It has always been this, but I never told you (or maybe I said it once, don't remember and can't watch the previous posts).
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMWould you mind if I show you compelling evidence that this is probably not true?
You don't need, I know (without any evidences) that this might be not true.
Subjective:Actually, with what I know (and
IMO, so it means it's not even 5% sure (since I have no evidences)), it's around:
- 70% about a government act (involving terrorist or not).
- 30% about a terrorist act (and the truth can be into those 30%, don't missunderstand).
It's just about clues and feeling.
PS: I'll use those marks everytime, so you won't missunderstand anymore.
An argument about a subject without any convincing proof is useless. It's gonna go in circles from here on. Let everyone have their opinions I say. :)
lol @ %
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 10, 2011, 01:43 AMQuote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:43 AMPlus I don't think you're going to get many actors willing to stab and murder people like the terrorists did. They didn't just ask nicely for permission to fly those planes. They murdered.
If some terrorists have been able to stab and murder people, why can't some pro USA ?
As an actor that would probably be the worst audition you could ever imagine.
"Ok, so you gotta pretend you're an al-Quaida terrorist"
"Is it a movie or tv show or...?"
"No it's real life!"
"Ok....so what's the script?"
"Well, there isn't really a script...."
"Eh?"
"Hijack Flight 93 ok? Stab some people...crash it into the WTC ok? Everything will be improvised but keep saying 'Allah is great" ok?"
"Ahhh ok, see ya soon"
"BB"
------------
Are you insane Abnaxus?
These terrorists weren't puppets. They were people with lives and backgrounds. You say things that really are not true and a simple web search would show this to be the case, then you say "well prove me wrong!".
The criminals in 9/11 were terrorists that had their own biographies which you can freely read about if you wanted to. To even suggest that they could be actors shows that you don't really take this seriously.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 11:08 PM
Quote from: theredi on May 09, 2011, 11:04 PM
no1 says it wasnt al-quaida but al-quaida has many common things with cia and usa goverment so add 2 to 2
Can you be more specific dude?
no i cant lol u are so shorteye, get awake and start thinking on ur own, dont believe in shit they tell u and want u to believe coz this is how it works, omg im done here...
Quote from: theredi on May 10, 2011, 10:43 AM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 09, 2011, 11:08 PM
Quote from: theredi on May 09, 2011, 11:04 PM
no1 says it wasnt al-quaida but al-quaida has many common things with cia and usa goverment so add 2 to 2
Can you be more specific dude?
no i cant
Ok.
Cue.... I'll give up soon if you don't make efforts to understand... I really think you put a veil on it, and you miss a lot doing this..
When a FBI agent is in tailing, do you really think he had an audition before ?..
Plus, I don't think they really said "Allah is the greatest", especially for Al-Quaida members. But "Allah akbar" (the same, but in arabic).
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 03:25 AMThe criminals in 9/11 were terrorists that had their own biographies which you can freely read about if you wanted to. To even suggest that they could be actors shows that you don't really take this seriously.
The thing I wonder is, how can you tell this ? Have you seen these terrorists ? Do you know them personnaly, or some members of their family ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only clues you get are from videos/"sound tape"/text TV or Web showed you.
So it's not a sure source.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 03:25 AMYou say things that really are not true and a simple web search would show this to be the case
So you believe everything's on the web ? Take care dude...
If it really was a conspiracy, they planned very freakin' goodly this, so it means there would be almost no evidences of it, from papers to web.
They wouldn't take a single risk to let this getting found.
A single error and it's their end.
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 10, 2011, 11:39 AM
Cue.... I'll give up soon if you don't make efforts to understand... I really think you put a veil on it, and you miss a lot doing this..
When a FBI agent is in tailing, do you really think he had an audition before ?..
Plus, I don't think they really said "Allah is the greatest", especially for Al-Quaida members. But "Allah akbar" (the same, but in arabic).
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 03:25 AMThe criminals in 9/11 were terrorists that had their own biographies which you can freely read about if you wanted to. To even suggest that they could be actors shows that you don't really take this seriously.
The thing I wonder is, how can you tell this ? Have you seen these terrorists ? Do you know them personnaly, or some members of their family ?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only clues you get are from videos/"sound tape"/text TV or Web showed you.
So it's not a sure source.
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 03:25 AMYou say things that really are not true and a simple web search would show this to be the case
So you believe everything's on the web ? Take care dude...
If it really was a conspiracy, they planned very freakin' goodly this, so it means there would be almost no evidences of it, from papers to web.
They wouldn't take a single risk to let this getting found.
A single error and it's their end.
You are right. Those transcripts were translated to English.
This is where we get to. The conspiracy is so complex and clever that there's no evidence of it. This becomes impossible to disprove. So gg.
Anyway. We're getting nowhere in this debate.
Even if I showed you very compelling evidence that these terrorists were not actors then what? The conspiracy would then need to be even more complex for it to make sense. We would then move on to the next subject. Then the next.
All the time I'm being told I'm a gullible fool for believing the governments story. When really I'm not. I'm looking at the evidence and making my mind up.
If people want to believe in something which has no evidence for it then that's their choice.
Anyway. I'm not enjoying this debate any more and it doesn't look like anyone else is too.
way too many paranoid people around here, I'm surprised. oO
The argumentation reminds me of some nazis here in Germany that discuss like this when they say that there was no Holocaust. Always claiming that the sources of the other side could be faked instead of giving own sources...
Too bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then ;d
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 10:06 PMToo finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy, but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.
Cue, the very sad thing is you didn't get where I wanted to go. Even if I clearly told you what it was.
Plus you continued on this actor thing. But there was a "or" in my sentence, continued by "real Al-Quaida members".
Since you have no real evidences of nothing, except what people have told you, everything could have happenned.
Do never get what people say as an evidence, that's where you're wrong.Anyway, I give up...
Quote from: Random00 on May 10, 2011, 12:41 PMToo bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then
True, but the thing is both sides (conspiracy and not) have no real evidences at all.
So do not choose one or the other. Just keep it in mind, but don't bother. Except if you get the power enough to find those evidences we miss (but no one there has).
PS: I'm really sad about your "so gg". Though you could be more objective (as you did on other debates), I was wrong.
PSS:You think the conspiracy is even more complex everytime I answer you, but I've never tell you all of the possibilities (just cause I can't, it's too long).
But since start, I've never said it was a easy one.
A conspiracy of this magnitude can't be easy, and has to be very complex if you want it to work. And they get the power to do it (I guess I should have started with this).
Btw, isn't a well made conspiracy complex by his definition ?
PSSS: I'd like to ask you one last question. If I tell you the human can move object without touching a thing, will you think there is a chance it's true ? What will be your answer ?
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 12:05 PM
All the time I'm being told I'm a gullible fool for believing the governments story. When really I'm not.
Cueshark, they took gulliable out of the dictionary, did you know that? ???
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 10, 2011, 12:42 PM
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 09, 2011, 10:06 PMToo finish, we don't want you to change your mind (at least me).
I just want you to realize that yeah, we don't any evidences about the conspiracy, but you neither don't have any about what they said or showed.
So both could have happenned.
That's all I'm trying to say since the start.
Cue, the very sad thing is you didn't get where I wanted to go. Even if I clearly told you what it was.
Plus you continued on this actor thing. But there was a "or" in my sentence, continued by "real Al-Quaida members".
Since you have no real evidences of nothing, except what people have told you, everything could have happenned.
Do never get what people say as an evidence, that's where you're wrong.
Anyway, I give up...
Quote from: Random00 on May 10, 2011, 12:41 PMToo bad that there is never some 100% proof in the real world (Math for the win haha), but if there are enough evidences for some point I personally think that it's true then
True, but the thing is both sides (conspiracy and not) have no real evidences at all.
So do not choose one or the other. Just keep it in mind, but don't bother. Except if you get the power enough to find those evidences we miss (but no one there has).
PS: I'm really sad about your "so gg". Though you could be more objective (as you did on other debates), I was wrong.
PSS:You think the conspiracy is even more complex everytime I answer you, but I've never tell you all of the possibilities (just cause I can't, it's too long).
But since start, I've never said it was a easy one.
A conspiracy of this magnitude can't be easy, and has to be very complex if you want it to work. And they get the power to do it (I guess I should have started with this).
Btw, isn't a well made conspiracy complex by his definition ?
PSSS: I'd like to ask you one last question. If I tell you the human can move object without touching a thing, will you think there is a chance it's true ? What will be your answer ?
You misundestood my good game. I didn't mean that I had won this debate. I mean how can I disprove something which has no evidence. It is gg for this reason.
What you're basically saying is that no evidence is ever good enough for you to form an opinion. Well we're not going to get very far then are we :(
PLEASE help me out here. I'd like to chip in. I don't see the purpose/goal/fun in this. You go around get yourself worked up, you end up ""making fun/attacking"" each other opinions over what exactly?
Lets say government was behind this, or no, it was some pissed off Muslims. Now what happens?
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 01:19 PMYou misundestood my good game. I didn't mean that I had won this debate. I mean how can I disprove something which has no evidence. It is gg for this reason.
In fact you did (except if I really missunderstood, but not for the reason you gave). :)
I understood the "gg" was like a "i give up, you won". But you're wrong saying that, since there is no winners in such a debate.
@MI:
I don't know how it started. But when I entered, it was to respond to Cueshark who was thinking it was clearly not a conspiracy.
So I just wanted to proove he was wrong (doesn't mean it's a conspiracy, but it
could be one).
If you (not personnaly you MI, but everybody who didn't) had done some "logic", you would understand easly.
I guess the debate was if it was a conspiracy or not.
But since we don't have any evidences on both sides, we just give our opinion (which worth nothing but our beliefs).
Darkz summarized pretty well this:
Quote from: darKz on May 10, 2011, 02:45 AM
An argument about a subject without any convincing proof is useless. It's gonna go in circles from here on. Let everyone have their opinions I say. :)
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on May 10, 2011, 01:41 PM
PLEASE help me out here. I'd like to chip in. I don't see the purpose/goal/fun in this. You go around get yourself worked up, you end up ""making fun/attacking"" each other opinions over what exactly?
Lets say government was behind this, or no, it was some pissed off Muslims. Now what happens?
I could argue about conspiracy theories all day long.
There were some false claims being made about 9/11 which I wanted to correct.
I'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory. It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something. Muchos respect.
I was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives. That would be interesting.
But it didn't quite turn out like that. We're all mates though I think :P
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 02:19 PMI'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory. It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something.
I never said this theory was true (don't forget it still was theory), but it neither was wrong.
At least since you provided me some real proofs that it couldn't be possible (well, it still is possible, but it fell down from 50% chance to 3%). :)
I can easly change my mind when people give me proofs, but it's rare they get real ones. I'm not stubborn to the point of being blind. ;)
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 02:19 PMI was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives. That would be interesting.
We can't. It's just about thinking & logic.
Imagine you arrive in a new planet, and you see one and only one sheep, which is black. It could means:
- There is only black sheeps on this planet (you can't know at all, so you just wonder).
- There is only one black sheep on this planet (you got very big luck to fall on it, so it's 5% chance).
- There is some black sheeps & some other ones (there again, you can't know until you get new proofs).
You can take either of the possibilities, BUT without forgetting the 2 other ones.
People often take one and forget the other possibilities, that's were they are wrong (and where you were).
I hope it's now cleared. :)
PS: Wtf is this song Husk ? xD
Quote from: Abnaxus on May 10, 2011, 02:36 PM
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 02:19 PMI'm glad that Abnaxus changed his view on the controlled demolition theory. It's a breath of fresh air when people actually change their mind on something.
I never said this theory was true (don't forget it still was theory), but it neither was wrong.
At least since you provided me some real proofs that it couldn't be possible (well, it still is possible, but it fell down from 50% chance to 3%). :)
I can easly change my mind when people give me proofs, but it's rare they get real ones. I'm not stubborn to the point of being blind. ;)
Quote from: Cueshark on May 10, 2011, 02:19 PMI was hoping that someone might show me something to shake my perspectives. That would be interesting.
We can't. It's just about thinking & logic.
Imagine you arrive in a new planet, and you see one and only one sheep, which is black. It could means:
- There is only black sheeps on this planet (you can't know at all, so you just wonder).
- There is only one black sheep on this planet (you got very big luck to fall on it, so it's 5% chance).
- There is some black sheeps & some other ones (there again, you can't know since you get new proofs).
You can take either of the possibilities, BUT without forgetting the 2 other ones.
People often take one and forget the other possibilities, that's were they are wrong (and where you were).
I hope it's now cleared. :)
All cleared up :D
Except I would prefer it if your example had super sheep instead of normal sheep. But apart from that it all made sense.
oh that song? just ur new favourite song [:
I prefer this one better: ;D
Quote from: ShyGuy on May 10, 2011, 01:26 AM
Regarding 911 conspiracies - I was like Cue; I watched Loose Change and I was sold. Few years later and more researched, my view has changed. Like HHC's view, I feel like the government had knowledge of these attacks. There are some things that still seem shady, imo... most shady would be WTC7... BBC reported WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it did, there were only small pockets of fire in WTC7, the whole thing with the owner of WTC7 just seems like fishy business... idk.. Haven't researched it in a while but WTC7 was always the odd part of the story for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QilSHm0Luj4
<3 dprjones
Quote from: ShyGuy on May 10, 2011, 01:26 AMRegarding government - USA is definitely controlled by corporations... it is sickening... the media along with the f@#!ing worthless Constitution prevents any 3rd party candidates from ever making a serious run at president, although the president has little power compared to Congress... but the same deal goes for Congress... stupid winner-take-all voting system makes voting for 3rd parties useless... and the reason I bring up independent parties is because they aren't f@#!ed up the ass with corporate agendas.. at least not nearly as much as the Republicans and Democrats. The government is run by greed... I wouldn't put it past them to off some people for a buck... maybe not as large scale as 9/11 (though it did benefit them), but you know... the CIA has been doing it for years. f@#!ing capitalism does this... slaughtering American Indians, enslaving Blacks, and countless wars are all forms of unregulated capitalism.
I have only a few words in response to this: Anthony Weiner for president in 2016 :)
There's a plethora of evidence for those willing to find it on this subject. I daresay 9/11 is event with the single biggest impact we know right now as it spawned 2 wars (well, it spawned one and it was used as an excuse for the second one) with all its ensuing geopolitical consequences.
To think nobody has done proper research on the matter is laughable; it's right there for you to find if only you are willing to look for it and look at it critically.
All I can say is: don't fall for movies that make something "look convenient". Look for sources and clear evidence. I don't claim to know the truth, but I sure won't just look at any propaganda video like Loose Change or Fahrenheit 9/11 and call it true.
<3 Husk.
God, Husk !! this song is horrible, what a pain for my ears XDD
Quote from: DarkOne on May 10, 2011, 07:05 PM
Quote from: ShyGuy on May 10, 2011, 01:26 AM
Regarding 911 conspiracies - I was like Cue; I watched Loose Change and I was sold. Few years later and more researched, my view has changed. Like HHC's view, I feel like the government had knowledge of these attacks. There are some things that still seem shady, imo... most shady would be WTC7... BBC reported WTC7 had collapsed 20 minutes before it did, there were only small pockets of fire in WTC7, the whole thing with the owner of WTC7 just seems like fishy business... idk.. Haven't researched it in a while but WTC7 was always the odd part of the story for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QilSHm0Luj4
<3 dprjones
Quote from: ShyGuy on May 10, 2011, 01:26 AMRegarding government - USA is definitely controlled by corporations... it is sickening... the media along with the f@#!ing worthless Constitution prevents any 3rd party candidates from ever making a serious run at president, although the president has little power compared to Congress... but the same deal goes for Congress... stupid winner-take-all voting system makes voting for 3rd parties useless... and the reason I bring up independent parties is because they aren't f@#!ed up the ass with corporate agendas.. at least not nearly as much as the Republicans and Democrats. The government is run by greed... I wouldn't put it past them to off some people for a buck... maybe not as large scale as 9/11 (though it did benefit them), but you know... the CIA has been doing it for years. f@#!ing capitalism does this... slaughtering American Indians, enslaving Blacks, and countless wars are all forms of unregulated capitalism.
I have only a few words in response to this: Anthony Weiner for president in 2016 :)
There's a plethora of evidence for those willing to find it on this subject. I daresay 9/11 is event with the single biggest impact we know right now as it spawned 2 wars (well, it spawned one and it was used as an excuse for the second one) with all its ensuing geopolitical consequences.
To think nobody has done proper research on the matter is laughable; it's right there for you to find if only you are willing to look for it and look at it critically.
All I can say is: don't fall for movies that make something "look convenient". Look for sources and clear evidence. I don't claim to know the truth, but I sure won't just look at any propaganda video like Loose Change or Fahrenheit 9/11 and call it true.
Nice video.
Nice that you mentioned Weiner. He is one of the only good ones left in Congress and maybe my favorite
There was no 9/11, it was a mass hallucination.
I can't prove it was, but you can't prove it wasn't. How you like dem apples?
:D
We sure can follow the everything's-not-real theory which is kindda passionating, but there is too much way to become insane trying to find evidences of it. :/
occam's razor ftw ;D
Quote from: Free on May 10, 2011, 10:09 PM
There was no 9/11, it was a mass hallucination.
I can't prove it was, but you can't prove it wasn't. How you like dem apples?
:D
You joke, but conspiracy theorist David Shayler believes that the planes were holograms.
And yeah, I can't prove they weren't.
It makes debating a bit pointless when no standard of evidence is good enough to prove a point.
Quote from: ThaShady1 on May 10, 2011, 10:25 PM
occam's razor ftw ;D
Someone should of said that 3 pages ago :P
WtF? That shitty song have 135,269,285 views!
373,769 likes and 2,693,973 dislikes!
And it's the very first time that I've heard for that "chick" Rebecca and her song..
Hell, must be that I'm uninformed.. Same as Americans are about the subject. ;x
;0