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October 16, 2019, 08:17 AM

Author Topic: Intelligence  (Read 176 times)

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Offline TheKomodo

Intelligence
« on: July 05, 2019, 08:54 AM »
I read this a while back, and was reminded of it recently, I found it extremely fascinating and i've known and/or thought about a lot of stuff in this article for many years now:

https://knowledgeutopia.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-cetacean-brain-and-hominid-perceptions-of-cetacean-intelligence/

Personally, I don't believe humans are the most intelligent species on this planet, the more we study other species on Earth, the more this becomes clearer to me.

I would like to hear your views and opinions, try to keep it clean :)

Offline Xrayez

Re: Intelligence
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2019, 03:13 PM »
I think we often confuse intelligence with something else.
  • Intelligence vs skills. Intelligence is mostly useful in specific domains. I could play chess and become good at it, but this doesn't make me an intelligent person if intelligence to be interpreted as mere skill alone. Some part of intelligence could be transferred and adapted to other skills, but a domain overlap is usually very small for this to happen.
  • An intelligent person could also be wrongly interpreted as a person with good morals/ethics. If I'm a professional serial killer, I could still be quite an intelligent person.
But perhaps intelligence means all of the above. Yet this wouldn't apply to animals then because they don't really have morals/ethics. But as there are many animals which are social in nature, I think they could as well have some sort of morals and ethics, it just doesn't involve cultural aspect because animals can't write, hence make history from which traditions/laws could be created and inherited.

Having said that, I don't think we can compare intelligence across species, as we all have different environment to mold our intelligence against.


Offline TheKomodo

Re: Intelligence
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2019, 04:18 PM »
it just doesn't involve cultural aspect because animals can't write, hence make history from which traditions/laws could be created and inherited.


I have to disagree there, they don't read/write the way we do, but it has been proven various different species can read and write, but of course do it in different ways, for example some species have been known to leave marks and signs, also, look up animals communicating telepathically, taking away the need to even read/write like we do.

Animals definitely have tradition - https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tradition - Looking at the definition of the word tradition, and the various aspects, animals definitely do pass down traditions from generation to generation.

Also, laws are man made, it's kind of what the article I posted hints towards, we judge intelligence by comparing ourselves to others, I would say humans have more impact on Earth than any other species(at least on land), but I personally don't judge intelligence the same way most people do.

Of course there are universal laws, such as physics, but laws are there for the most part to control the population and make sure they behave in a specific way(to be honest, the universe probably works like this too lol), some laws are there for "protection & safety", some laws are for "education", some laws for other reasons but for the most part laws are simply the way the people who are in control, stay in control, I know this sounds nuts but, think about it, if it wasn't for the "working class" and average punter, who would do all the dirty work, all the hard stuff? It's like business management, if you've ever read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki there is a quote in there that's pretty interesting, I can't remember it exactly but it's something like:

"You want to pay staff as low a wage as possible so you make as much money as possible, and just high enough that they don't quit" - Hence, minimum wage..

So think of the same quote, but change wage to living conditions, and that's how people run the world "successfully", of course, people are trying to change that, and there are a lot of people in the world who contribute to making it better for all of us, it's definitely not as bad as it used to be, but the comparison from the elite to the poor is still ridiculous.

Anyway, while animals don't have "laws" the same way we do, there are certainly species that show signs of having moral judgement and in certain situations will display discipline and punishment. Also, I personally believe almost every living person has done something that's "illegal" somewhere else in the world at some point in their life.

Either way I love talking about this stuff, it's always refreshing to see how other people think, what other people believe and discuss what we know and/or believe :)
« Last Edit: July 05, 2019, 04:20 PM by TheKomodo »

Offline Xrayez

Re: Intelligence
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2019, 05:53 PM »
Yeah I don't want to deny that some species show signs of having some cultural aspect of being as they can evolve with the tools they invent to write history. The brain development (namely ability to memorize and recall stuff on demand from "the past") largely determines the probability of such species to create culture I think. Traditions develop as they prove to be important for survival.

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I would say humans have more impact on Earth than any other species

I think the impact is interpreted by humans themselves according to how they make the world they live in better or worse. To an ant the impact made by humans would be negligible in this case.

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So think of the same quote, but change wage to living conditions, and that's how people run the world "successfully"

Animals try to exert the least effort to preserve energy and avoid pain at all cost, and for most animals that would qualify as "success". I don't know what happened to humanity but in order to survive, you have to do the opposite now. Seeking pleasure might lead to "self-destructive behavior" as they call it, so you're forced to plan and think through your intentions. Most animals have less memory span so they forget about stuff and react to the present. I say some history should be forgotten as there would be less cultural friction and wars. Animals don't have such problems, hence they could be more intelligent than us in this regard.  :D