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Author Topic: The Big Religion/God Debate  (Read 37991 times)

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The Big Religion/God Debate
« on: September 28, 2010, 01:09 PM »
Well you asked for it!  Well HHC did anyway!

The Big Religion/God Debate.


Was the universe created by a god?  Or is god just a man-made theory and as plausible as the tooth-fairy or santa claus?

Do the claims made by religion hold up against scientific enquiry or is religion an out-dated practice created by early man who had huge gaps in their understanding of the natural world and needed quick and easy answers to their burning questions about life, the universe and everything?

Are you religious?  Do you practice religion as a tradition or because you believe that your particular religion is 'correct'?  Do your experiences validate the existence of god or do humans retro-fit their experiences to fit their pre-conceptions and ideology.

Is there a correct religion amongst all the many different religions across the world or are they all based upon similar false beliefs and wishful thinking?

I will do my best to sub-moderate this extremely controversial topic and express my own views as well.

Cue :<
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 01:48 PM by Cueshark »

Offline Husk

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 01:49 PM »
islam is religion of peace

Offline Free

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 01:58 PM »
I pray to the one who created us all.

Offline Ray

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 02:04 PM »
Mankind needed religion as an excuse for things they couldn't possibly explain with their current knowledge. As technology developed over the past couple of centuries, more and more people realized that the stories in the Bible for instance are obviously not true (and every single person who has just a little sense realizes that - no matter how truly religious they are).

But that's not only with religion. You know about witches, stories, books about such tales, those cannot be true either! All for the favor of explaining unexplainable things.

But! For example catholic religion is not only a crap made up for this reason. Stories in the Bible help you get by, they give you a wider look at things so you can apply them in your life and make your life better.

Christianity is supposed to be that - a help that lets you get by better in life. That's all, and I'm saying that even though I think all this religion-thing is a big bag of bullshit.

It's somewhat a way of teaching people to a better attitude, positive thinking and such, since - even though it's never been proven - THAT helps you a lot in life, and I found that out the hard way. ;)

P.S.: this is my opinion! I am not willing to hurt anyone's feelings with it, I am not looking for an argument here - this is what I think. If you believe something different, you are free to express it, I will read it, and even if I do disagree with what you say, I won't chukkle it in your face, you are free to believe whatever you want and live by that. And I have no rights to take that or the freedom of expressing it away from you.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 02:08 PM by Ray »

Offline Husk

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 02:19 PM »
Koran > Bible

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 02:49 PM »

Offline avirex

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 04:27 PM »
I dont really believe there is a god.. But i most definetly believe there is a higher power... His name is nino huahuahuahuahuahauahauiahah

Offline HHC

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2010, 07:41 PM »
Do the claims made by religion hold up against scientific enquiry or is religion an out-dated practice created by early man who had huge gaps in their understanding of the natural world and needed quick and easy answers to their burning questions about life, the universe and everything?

There are two domains: the objective, material world and the metaphysical. Science can give us all the answers when it comes to the first, but when it comes to metaphysics it is all speculation (and thus a worthy domain for philosophy and religion). Religion and science both fail when they try to transgress this division made by Kant.

What is important to keep in mind though is the fundamental twist science has taken in the last century. Most people still hold a simple view of the universe for granted that they call 'scientific', that is a universe in which everything is governed by a linear time and space and straightforward natural laws.
Yet, in the field of quantum-science discoveries are made that fundamentally contradict this.. and that, in potention, shed new light on old holistic views of the universe in which everything and everyone is interconnected on a deep 'spiritual' level (through consciousness?).

Anyway, I must admit to my shame that I'm among the 99.9999999999% of the people on earth that do not understand quantum physics. But when I read articles of pro's about the implications of the findings in this field I can only marvel at the complexity of this universe and gain new appreciation for the holistic models of ancient philosophers and mystics.

Quote
Nonlocality or nonseparability is asking us to revise completely our ideas about objects, to remove a pervasive projection we have upon nature. We can no longer consider objects as independently existing entities that can be localized in well-defined regions of spacetime. They are interconnected in ways not even conceivable using ideas from classical physics, which is largely a refinement and extrapolation from our normal macroscopic sense of functioning. (Mansfield, 1995, p.122).

    Nature has shown us that our concept of reality, consisting of units that can be considered as separate from each other, is fundamentally wrong. For this reason, Bell's theorem may be the most profound discovery of science. (Kafatos and Kafatou, 1991, 64-65).

Quantum nonlocality proves that "particles that were once together in an interaction remain in some sense parts of a single system which responds together to further interactions" (Gribbin, 1984). Since the entire universe originated in a flash of light known as the Big Bang, the existence of quantum nonlocality points toward a profound cosmological holism and suggests that

    If everything that ever interacted in the Big Bang maintains its connection with everything it interacted with, then every particle in every star and galaxy that we can see "knows" about the existence of every other particle. (Gribbin, 1984).
http://www.braungardt.com/Physics/Quantum%20Nonlocality.htm


So yeah.. this had lead me to believe our view on the universe (according to traditional Newtonian science) is just as flawed as that of the ancients (which was almost entirely based on speculation and revelation).

Quote
Are you religious?  Do you practice religion as a tradition or because you believe that your particular religion is 'correct'?  Do your experiences validate the existence of god or do humans retro-fit their experiences to fit their pre-conceptions and ideology.

I'm not, nor do I believe in a creator-God.
I think religious practice can be useful though, even without a 'God'. Buddhism is a very practical a-theist religion which IMO can lift you to a higher level of 'living'. Meditation brings feelings of peace and harmony. And well, stuff like Tai Chi or Qi Gong can really improve your focus and physical abilities, as well as strengthen your mind. As such even a-theist religious practice can be very useful.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 07:43 PM by HHC »

Offline nino

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2010, 08:44 PM »
Mankind needed religion as an excuse for things they couldn't possibly explain with their current knowledge. As technology developed over the past couple of centuries, more and more people realized that the stories in the Bible for instance are obviously not true (and every single person who has just a little sense realizes that - no matter how truly religious they are).

But that's not only with religion. You know about witches, stories, books about such tales, those cannot be true either! All for the favor of explaining unexplainable things.

But! For example catholic religion is not only a crap made up for this reason. Stories in the Bible help you get by, they give you a wider look at things so you can apply them in your life and make your life better.

Christianity is supposed to be that - a help that lets you get by better in life. That's all, and I'm saying that even though I think all this religion-thing is a big bag of bullshit.

It's somewhat a way of teaching people to a better attitude, positive thinking and such, since - even though it's never been proven - THAT helps you a lot in life, and I found that out the hard way. ;)

P.S.: this is my opinion! I am not willing to hurt anyone's feelings with it, I am not looking for an argument here - this is what I think. If you believe something different, you are free to express it, I will read it, and even if I do disagree with what you say, I won't chukkle it in your face, you are free to believe whatever you want and live by that. And I have no rights to take that or the freedom of expressing it away from you.

I make your post mine too.


And avi LOL
You Are Losing Time Reading my Signature.

Offline SPW

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2010, 08:58 PM »
I just believe in Jesus

... and I respect all other religions.  :)

Offline Ray

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2010, 09:13 PM »
Yea SPW, I'm not saying that in 2000 years of mankind it's not possible that there was one person who was called Jesus Christ. :) He just didn't have superpowers, that's all. Please don't kick me in the nuts for saying that...

@HHC: I'm way too tired right now to actually read and understand your whole post, so I postpone my answer for tomorrow if you don't mind. :D

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2010, 09:24 PM »
I just believe in Jesus

... and I respect all other religions.  :)

I believe in Jesus too.  There were many a man called Jesus.

It also depends on your definition of religion.  Would you describe scientology as a religion as it is claimed?  And therefore would you respect it?

To HHC.

I too am in the majority who have no understanding of quantum physics.  All that stuff about entanglement and the idea that a relationship exists between particles light years away from one another.  It's incredible stuff.  Especially now we're heading towards quantum computers with petaflop processors and stuff like that.  Awesome.

Despite all this, I'm not sure how one can generalise quantum discoveries to be part of a 'holistic' view of the universe and that developments in quantum physics somehow go against previous scientific discoveries.

" If everything that ever interacted in the Big Bang maintains its connection with everything it interacted with, then every particle in every star and galaxy that we can see "knows" about the existence of every other particle. "

I like that idea too.  I think we're all connected, every particle has a relationship with one another.  As Carl Sagan put it, we're all made of "star stuff".
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 09:26 PM by Cueshark »

Offline HHC

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #12 on: September 28, 2010, 09:37 PM »
Despite all this, I'm not sure how one can generalise quantum discoveries to be part of a 'holistic' view of the universe and that developments in quantum physics somehow go against previous scientific discoveries.

Well in the holistic interpretation of the universe everything is linked together by subtle connections. Isn't that what quantumphysics confirms?

The most interesting subject is maybe the idea of non-locality when it comes to human conciousness. There are some who claim conciousness is not tied to the brain, but that the brain is merely an interface through which the non-local conciousness can function / can operate in this material world. In this view it is not the brain that brings forth conciousness, but conciousness exists outside of it, independently..
If this were true (I'm in doubt myself), it would, in essence, be possible to experience conciousness outside of the body (like in near death experiences) and thus allow for the possibility of conciousness before birth and after death.. what one might call an afterlife. And that would pretty much confirm the validity of the central doctrine of most religions.

But again, I'm not sure whether to believe this.



Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #13 on: September 28, 2010, 09:41 PM »
Soo, i believe for God and i wanna say one of my experiences:
It happened mayb month ago when i was in Seinäjoki. There was Pentecosts conference, something like 6000 ppl, prolly the best-known evangelist reinhard bonnke and much more other evangelist. at night i went to session which was for youth and there were ~800ppl. Some finnish guy was speaking there and at the end asked everyone who felt that or wanted to feel Holyspirit  come to front of the hall. I went there and when the guy prayed and raised my hands up, i started to cry/laugh at the same and some weird "electricity" came to my hands and my whole body and felt like my torso woulda blown, the feeling was so dämn unbelievable! Impossible to imagine it!

i would like to post more about "creatism vs darwinism" but my english+delivery isnt good enough;X


Bonnke in Africa:
&feature=related
"since most people tend to the order side, its my job to spread chaos" -peja

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #14 on: September 28, 2010, 10:04 PM »
too drunk.. too many word for me.. gg !