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Author Topic: The Big Religion/God Debate  (Read 37628 times)

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Offline Free

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2010, 10:27 PM »
Everything is energy.

I believe something/someone created that possibility for energy to exist hence I believe in Creator.

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2010, 10:46 PM »
Despite all this, I'm not sure how one can generalise quantum discoveries to be part of a 'holistic' view of the universe and that developments in quantum physics somehow go against previous scientific discoveries.

Well in the holistic interpretation of the universe everything is linked together by subtle connections. Isn't that what quantumphysics confirms?

The most interesting subject is maybe the idea of non-locality when it comes to human conciousness. There are some who claim conciousness is not tied to the brain, but that the brain is merely an interface through which the non-local conciousness can function / can operate in this material world. In this view it is not the brain that brings forth conciousness, but conciousness exists outside of it, independently..
If this were true (I'm in doubt myself), it would, in essence, be possible to experience conciousness outside of the body (like in near death experiences) and thus allow for the possibility of conciousness before birth and after death.. what one might call an afterlife. And that would pretty much confirm the validity of the central doctrine of most religions.

But again, I'm not sure whether to believe this.




I think you're talking about dualism and yes, I am in doubt too.

Near death experiences are very much an interest of mine HHC.  I'm glad you brought them up.

We've all heard stories about people waking up from life saving surgery, perhaps after a serious car accident.  A percentage of people will have out of body experiences where they feel as if they are floating above their body looking down and seeing the hospital staff operating on them.

The question is, does this prove that the mind or consciousness can exist outside of our body?  If this were true then we're starting to talk about everlasting existence which is pretty heavy shit.  I wouldn't actually worry about dying if my consciousness would continue to exist for eternity.  I also think it's pretty darn unlikely and I think that there is also no compelling evidence for it to be true.  But some people disagree.  

The real absolute crux of the entire debate is whether these experiences occur during a flat EEG.  As in, when there is absolutely no activity in the brain.  Nothing has proven this and therefore they could still be merely a brain phenomenon.

Another thing to remember is that neurologists know exactly how to make people have these strange out of body experiences.  They can trigger them in a person by stimulating a certain part of the brain.

I thoroughly recommend listening to a debate between a believer and a non-believer on the topic of near death experience and the out of body experience.  It is extremely interesting and entertaining, especially considering Stephen Novella is such a gifted debater and knows every logical fallacy in the book.

Stephen Novella is a practicing neurologist and Alex Tsakiris is not a scientist but believes in the importance of scientific experiments to provide evidence for his alternative view.

http://www.skeptiko.com/near-death-experience-research-debate-with-steven-novella/

Cue :<
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 10:51 PM by Cueshark »

Offline THeDoGG

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2010, 10:56 PM »
Bible has been written by humans, in order to control other humans.

And there are still people believing  in it :)

Offline nino

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #18 on: September 28, 2010, 11:02 PM »
btw, the new album of Bad Religion is out. enjoy it ae http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MYFALB18
You Are Losing Time Reading my Signature.

Offline angus

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #19 on: September 28, 2010, 11:39 PM »
btw, the new album of Bad Religion is out. enjoy it ae http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MYFALB18

xDDDDDD !!  great nino....

Offline Husk

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2010, 02:13 AM »
Bible > Koran

Offline nino

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2010, 02:57 AM »
Bible > Koran

k. bomber man going to filand, just w8 madafoka!
You Are Losing Time Reading my Signature.

Offline Husk

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2010, 12:56 PM »
islam is religion of peace

im safe!

Offline Ramone

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2010, 12:58 PM »
@Cue and HHC, reading your posts with quantum physics involved, first that has crossed my mind is to recommend U to watch the movie (if U already haven't): "What the Bleep do we Know?". It's a half documentary half featured movie in which some of the greatest minds/scientist talks about quantum physics, God, human brains etc.. I think U'll both like it and maybe U even get to understand quantum physics.. ;x Not that U need any knowledge about physics to watch it, it's made for "wide audience".. If U like it, there's also the second part called "Down the Rabbit hole".. Just search for it on torrents, so I don't leave torrents links here (dunno if it's allowed)..

I think that the human brain is (still?) unable to comprehend and realize what the "God" is. We are kinda "stuck" in a 3rd dimension (with a Dot and a Circle) and we cannot see further than that, but we can guess that there's something beyond that 3rd dimension, which is our consciousness capability that we have develop (again*) in last few centuries... *I mean, Earth had Great Civilizations like Maya's or Egyptian that used to know so much about the World and Cosmos around, their level of consciousness was on a higher level. But then all went to hell, and again (just few centuries back from present!) U have ppl being hanged for claiming that the Earth is not flat but round! At the beginning of 17th century Galileo had to go to the Catholic Church authorities to convince them that Copernicus was right and that the Earth is not the center of the Universe and that not everything is spinning around her, but that the Earth is spinning around the Sun.. Once, when they were the most powerful organizations in society, church and it's head authorities used to annihilate the Science for the sake of their own manipulations with human kind. I'm just glad that those ages are gone and passed.. ;x

But for sure we live in the age where Science rapidly develops and progress, it's great times for those who like Science. Explorations and understanding of outer Cosmos and inner Cosmos (quantum physics) are on highest level than ever before..
So for me, my "religion" is Science. ;x


Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2010, 01:55 PM »
@Cue and HHC, reading your posts with quantum physics involved, first that has crossed my mind is to recommend U to watch the movie (if U already haven't): "What the Bleep do we Know?". It's a half documentary half featured movie in which some of the greatest minds/scientist talks about quantum physics, God, human brains etc.. I think U'll both like it and maybe U even get to understand quantum physics.. ;x Not that U need any knowledge about physics to watch it, it's made for "wide audience".. If U like it, there's also the second part called "Down the Rabbit hole".. Just search for it on torrents, so I don't leave torrents links here (dunno if it's allowed)..

I think that the human brain is (still?) unable to comprehend and realize what the "God" is. We are kinda "stuck" in a 3rd dimension (with a Dot and a Circle) and we cannot see further than that, but we can guess that there's something beyond that 3rd dimension, which is our consciousness capability that we have develop (again*) in last few centuries... *I mean, Earth had Great Civilizations like Maya's or Egyptian that used to know so much about the World and Cosmos around, their level of consciousness was on a higher level. But then all went to hell, and again (just few centuries back from present!) U have ppl being hanged for claiming that the Earth is not flat but round! At the beginning of 17th century Galileo had to go to the Catholic Church authorities to convince them that Copernicus was right and that the Earth is not the center of the Universe and that not everything is spinning around her, but that the Earth is spinning around the Sun.. Once, when they were the most powerful organizations in society, church and it's head authorities used to annihilate the Science for the sake of their own manipulations with human kind. I'm just glad that those ages are gone and passed.. ;x

But for sure we live in the age where Science rapidly develops and progress, it's great times for those who like Science. Explorations and understanding of outer Cosmos and inner Cosmos (quantum physics) are on highest level than ever before..
So for me, my "religion" is Science. ;x



Awesome post.

I agree.  We are all stupid animals at the end of the day and on a biological level we are remarkably similar to those animals we call "lower" lifeforms. 

Science is the best tool we have for answering questions about the universe without letting our personal biases affect our conclusions. 

Yet some humans believe that the creator of the universe cares about them.  They believe that the creator of the universe cares what clothes they wear, cares about their sex life, what they eat, if they masturbate or not.  Even what they think about!  And religious people have the nerve to call scientists arrogant and close minded! 


Offline Ray

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #25 on: September 29, 2010, 02:19 PM »
@Cue: not all religious people are like that. There are a lot of those kind, and they bug the crap out of me also, but not all of them. :P

Oh man, I can't even find what I want to quote and answer to/start debate with, there is so much here... :)

Oh yea, I got it. Near death experiences...

When it comes to such things, I somehow... believe in both the scientific explanation and both the other... I do believe that those things are created by your brain, little chemicals and substances in your body react in different ways and we probably don't even know what our brain is capable of and also, we are trying to answer such questions like "undying consciousness" while we know maybe 5% of our own body. :P

Also, I think that it is possible that things are connected, that energy surrounds us and that with a lot (I mean really, a lot) of training and research people would be capable of understanding and maybe even controlling these energies - and as a result, predict different kind of things, gain better reflexes, better health, bigger brain activity and such things.

Offline Ramone

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #26 on: September 29, 2010, 02:55 PM »
Ray, "the question is, how far down the rabbit hole you want to go?" ;)
U need to see this movie too! http://www.whatthebleep.com/
I'm not saying that all the answers are in this movie and that all they're saying there is 100% right or whatever (there are few bullshits moments there too), but it really helped to a lot of ppl to just open their minds a little bit more and at least take a peek "down to the rabbit hole".. ;x

Here's the torrent link: http://btjunkie.org/torrent/What-The-Bleep-Do-We-Know-2004-DVDR-DivXNL-Team-NL-Subs/43584d9fc2c678890a25aff13dd50a1a4d2d28036ef2
(if it's not allowed to put torrent links here on TUS, tell me to delete it..)

Offline Ray

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #27 on: September 29, 2010, 03:11 PM »
I am already downloading it, almost finished. ;) But please give me a link with only the second part called "Down the Rabbit Hole". :)

Offline Ramone

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2010, 03:22 PM »
"Down the rabbit hole" is same as 1st part with some added stuff, animated explanations and things..
http://btjunkie.org/torrent/What-The-Bleep-Down-The-Rabbit-Hole-2006-DVDR-DivXNL-Team-NL-Sub/43580f3f5671bbec524951d0a440b674b4bbb6a9f044

Offline Free

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2010, 03:23 PM »