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Author Topic: The Big Religion/God Debate  (Read 37626 times)

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Offline Zalo

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Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #540 on: July 14, 2018, 07:34 PM »
Quote
The Church was and is cancerous. It didn't grow in an organic matter at all. It grew like a tumor. Like a virus. It is strictly hierarchical and compartmentalized as well.

wtf... what if I told you that atheism grew like a virus?

USSR wanted to create a "peaceful" country without a religion and murdured 63 000 000 of own people during Lenin and Stalin's reign. What a beautiful irreligious utopia.

In China in years 1949 - 1976 around 38 000 000 people have been killed due to opposing god-less communist vision of a country by Mao Zedong. What a nice irreligious country as well.

More info about atheist rulers trying to get rid of religious people in their countries
North Korea (Kim Il Sung) - 3 000 000
Cambodia (Pol Pot) - 2 400 000 (30% of the country's population)
France (Maximilian Robespierre's "Reign of Terror") - 300 000

Somehow the most brutal regimes didn't have any church, Skunk.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 08:21 PM by Zalo »

Offline Aladdin

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #541 on: July 14, 2018, 10:11 PM »
The argument holds, either for the universe, or for God, that that which has beginning needs a cause. And it is easy to see that this is correct, for things that are "born" can not come from nowhere.

Thus, that part of the atheists who holds that the universe is eternal, does not have to explain that it fronts a cause for it. And so do Christians who postulate the eternity of God.

In both cases, therefore, the discussion changes course and becomes the eternity of what has been defined in this way: the universe or God, as the case may be. The logical treatment is exactly the same.

Now there is no doubt that there is some eternal entity, for the question of what is the cause of what exists at the limit would lead to an infinite regression of causes, and this is not possible, for we are here.

So the choice to make is between an eternal universe or an eternal God. Something eternal must exist. I prefer the second option, for several reasons. Now I understand those who make another choice, because these things go beyond scientific evidence.

Offline skunk3

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #542 on: July 14, 2018, 10:22 PM »
Quote
The Church was and is cancerous. It didn't grow in an organic matter at all. It grew like a tumor. Like a virus. It is strictly hierarchical and compartmentalized as well.

wtf... what if I told you that atheism grew like a virus?

USSR wanted to create a "peaceful" country without a religion and murdured 63 000 000 of own people during Lenin and Stalin's reign. What a beautiful irreligious utopia.

In China in years 1949 - 1976 around 38 000 000 people have been killed due to opposing god-less communist vision of a country by Mao Zedong. What a nice irreligious country as well.

More info about atheist rulers trying to get rid of religious people in their countries
North Korea (Kim Il Sung) - 3 000 000
Cambodia (Pol Pot) - 2 400 000 (30% of the country's population)
France (Maximilian Robespierre's "Reign of Terror") - 300 000

Somehow the most brutal regimes didn't have any church, Skunk.

Atheism doesn't have leaders, nor does it have concentrated bases of power. Also, the vast majority of the deaths incurred via the examples of Communism mentioned are more to do with Communism itself and the effects of Communism rather than an attempt at creating an atheist society. In other words, the deaths didn't really have much (if anything) to do with the goal of pushing atheism on the people. It was coincidental. Religions HAVE killed millions of people directly, and still continue to do so. Religions eclipse and outlast regimes.

Also, I don't agree that atheism has grown like a virus. The majority of the world is still religious in one way or another, and the rise in atheism over recent years is primarily due to scientific advancement and the advancement of philosophical thought. Even 100 years ago atheists were fairly rare. These days people (on the whole) are more educated than ever and with a greater understanding of the universe we live in comes a natural lessening of dogmatic beliefs. 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 10:25 PM by skunk3 »

Offline Zalo

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Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #543 on: July 15, 2018, 12:08 AM »
Religions HAVE killed millions of people directly, and still continue to do so. Religions eclipse and outlast regimes.

You are just being utterly inaccurate over here. Your religious reasons, as you call it, didn't even kill 1% of the people murdered and executed in atheist regimes (148 000 000 people dead between 1917-2007), the majority of which died because they admitted to be religious. Your child-like argument that they died "because they didn't want communim" is just plain naive. In Poland we also had communism for 45 years, imposed by Russia. People didn't care whether we say "No" to communism or whether polish parties openly showed intention of making Poland independent. It were the priests and people who dared to put crosses in public places that were the main target. That's how USSR hired a shooter to assassinate our polish pope in 1981. He survived the assassination by a miracle. Thousands of our priests were executed, as well as religious activists.

Where did religions kill millions? how? Poland is christian for 1100 years. Right now, it's the most religious country in the entire Europe. Throughout XVI and XVII we have had the biggest territory in Europe as well. How come we never had colonies, slaves or we never killed anyone because of our faith? All over the globe people conquered and will conquer other countries. Looking at some countries their alibi was christianity. It's stupid to:

- assume that they wouldn't do that without religion
- world will ever stop doing that, no matter what

Key to happiness isn't being an utter pacifist but defending the interest of your family and your brothers. Fighting for the future of your children, not agreeing on everything you are told to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_mediation_in_the_Beagle_conflict

In 1978 war between Chile and Argentina has been stopped ON THE DAY BEFORE THE MILITARY ACTIONS BECAUSE of Church's intervention, specifically pope John Paul II's. Millions of people could have been killed, and yet they withdrew due to the fact that these countries were both highly catholic and the role of the pope simply meant a lot in the eyes of the officer. How come you don't even know about such stories? How come you are not even able to give me an example of killing for religion purposes?

Spoiler! View
if you want to make me facepalm by saying 'crusades' then this video is for you.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 08:19 AM by Zalo »

Offline skunk3

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #544 on: July 15, 2018, 09:44 PM »
Religions HAVE killed millions of people directly, and still continue to do so. Religions eclipse and outlast regimes.

You are just being utterly inaccurate over here. Your religious reasons, as you call it, didn't even kill 1% of the people murdered and executed in atheist regimes (148 000 000 people dead between 1917-2007), the majority of which died because they admitted to be religious. Your child-like argument that they died "because they didn't want communim" is just plain naive. In Poland we also had communism for 45 years, imposed by Russia. People didn't care whether we say "No" to communism or whether polish parties openly showed intention of making Poland independent. It were the priests and people who dared to put crosses in public places that were the main target. That's how USSR hired a shooter to assassinate our polish pope in 1981. He survived the assassination by a miracle. Thousands of our priests were executed, as well as religious activists.

Where did religions kill millions? how? Poland is christian for 1100 years. Right now, it's the most religious country in the entire Europe. Throughout XVI and XVII we have had the biggest territory in Europe as well. How come we never had colonies, slaves or we never killed anyone because of our faith? All over the globe people conquered and will conquer other countries. Looking at some countries their alibi was christianity. It's stupid to:

- assume that they wouldn't do that without religion
- world will ever stop doing that, no matter what

Key to happiness isn't being an utter pacifist but defending the interest of your family and your brothers. Fighting for the future of your children, not agreeing on everything you are told to do.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papal_mediation_in_the_Beagle_conflict

In 1978 war between Chile and Argentina has been stopped ON THE DAY BEFORE THE MILITARY ACTIONS BECAUSE of Church's intervention, specifically pope John Paul II's. Millions of people could have been killed, and yet they withdrew due to the fact that these countries were both highly catholic and the role of the pope simply meant a lot in the eyes of the officer. How come you don't even know about such stories? How come you are not even able to give me an example of killing for religion purposes?

Spoiler! View
if you want to make me facepalm by saying 'crusades' then this video is for you.


Sorry, but you are factually incorrect. As I said before, most of the deaths incurred under Communist regimes had little or even nothing to do with religion and are attributed to other circumstantial factors. I never made an argument as to the EXACT reason(s) why these people died (that's off topic and would take too long to present), so calling my non-existent argument "child like" is kinda hilarious. If you think that the majority of deaths under Communism are due to religion/atheism, you're wrong. As the old saying goes, correlation does not imply causation. As far as examples of killing directly related to religion, there are hundreds if not thousands of examples throughout history, both ancient and modern. I guarantee you that far more deaths can be attributed to religion than atheism.

Offline Sensei

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #545 on: July 15, 2018, 09:58 PM »
What happened to short witty comments?

Lately it's just novel after novel. Can't be arsed to read this, cmon guys.. make it user friendly :(

Offline TheKaren

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #546 on: July 18, 2018, 05:33 PM »
I didn't want to post here, but this is relevant.

Q: What beats Islam?

A: Dave beats Islam


Offline Frutiloops

Re: The Big Religion/God Debate
« Reply #547 on: July 20, 2018, 05:24 AM »
LOL i didn't know you like those kinds of topics. l think it can be fun, but don't write bibles in your comments, we have enough with the christian one. lf you're smart, you can synthesize. l'm willing to see more of this :)
Life is a funner dressed up as a tus