The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Other Things => Other worms games => Topic started by: skunk3 on January 28, 2018, 12:02 AM
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I eventually couldn't take it anymore and uninstalled WMD from my computer. For anyone considering the game (which I doubt many are), here's a few reasons why:
1. Team17 created a 12-month roadmap of planned updates for the game a year ago. Only a couple of the things ever actually made it into the game. The rest were all just empty promises and Team17 was completely silent about the issue for many months until finally one of the community managers basically said that we shouldn't expect any more updates.
2. W:A, while not as active as it once was, is still active enough most of the time to find a game, so why would I bother playing the inferior one?
3. While WMD does add some interesting gameplay elements such as buildings and weapon emplacements, there's also some game-ruining elements added that I simply cannot stand. Vehicles are cheesy and OP in most cases, but they pale in comparison to the crafting system. Crafting ruins the game and is easily the worst element of WMD. Let me explain:
-you start every match with a certain amount of crafting materials, which is determined in the scheme creation screen. you can pick from "few," "some," or "lots."
-every item in your inventory can be deconstructed to give you a set amount of crafting materials, including any items you pick up from crates
-crafting crates also randomly drop, and the amount of materials in the crates is totally random
-there's a new utility in WMD that is basically a drone. It has a few uses including being able to pick up crates. It is thrown like a grenade and then you steer it using your arrow keys. It does have a limited amount of fuel, but the fuel usage doesnt start until you 'activate' the drone by pressing an arrow key. This means you can chuck one all the way across the map and use the drone to pick up MANY crates in one turn, all without having to use any mobility items like parachutes, jetpacks, ropes, etc. You can just stay in your little hidey hole and spam drones on every turn. Also, the drone is very inexpensive to craft so basically picking up just one crafting crate is likely going to recoup the cost of crafting the drone, thus depriving your opponent of the crate.
-you can craft on every single turn, including your own. You just right click and select the crafting tab. Crafted items are available for use on your next turn. What this means is that you can watch your opponent's turn to see how it is going to end and then craft an item 2 seconds before their turn ends... the perfect item for whatever that situation is. It is unbelievably cheesy and basically acts like a handicap system. Why bother getting good at roping when you can just craft another jetpack? Why get good at making long-range zook or nade shots when you can just craft some "point and click" noob weapon?
I personally don't think that crafting adds any skill or strategy to the game whatsoever. All is does is make it luckier and more unpredictable.
4. There's a glaring lack of scheme and game customization options.
5. There's many weapons and utilities missing from past games that I consider to be essentials. (just from W:A - dragon ball, battle axe, bungee, petrol bomb, skunk, girder starter pack, freeze, mole, etc.)
6. There are so many stupid, OP weapons in the game, and many weapons that are utterly redundant and/or useless... to the point that there's several that I have NEVER seen anyone use online.
7. The rope, while better than games since WWP, is still kinda crappy. The only way you gain momentum from the rope is by pressing up. You can't bounce yourself off of walls/terrain/ceilings/etc to gain speed. In fact, that often deadens your momentum. There's lots of tricks that simply cannot be done in WMD with any of the 3 rope variants.
8. The map randomizer function doesn't seem very random at all, and we lack the ability to quickly edit a map with paintbrush tools. Also, no random girders appear on randomly generated maps.
9. User-created content is mostly garbage.
10. Fire is very weird in WMD. When a barrel explodes, it explodes into globs of fire rather than an even spread. A worm can be not far away from a barrel when it explodes and literally avoid taking any fire damage at all. Also, there's no persistent fire in WMD, so petrol bombs are just a fond memory. (Team17 claimed that persistent fire was causing FPS issues in WMD so they scrapped it.)
11. There is no concept of rules or etiquette at all. Hardly anyone knows what KTL or ABL means, and those that do are an extreme minority either informed of the rules by myself or a handful of other people. Friends will often join game lobbies and work together as a team even though they aren't the same color. Of course, you usually don't realize this until several turns in and by that point they're either completely silent or actively taunting. Also, randoms will often team up together to take out players that they deem threats, or simply just because they annoyed them one time. I might as well wear a bullseye hat in WMD because I get focus fired on in almost every game, and I don't mean just when it is convenient, either... these people will literally kill off their own worms and waste all of their resources to kill you just to troll.
12. The ranking system is flawed, the ranked scheme is flawed, and there's only one ranked scheme, which is the "Pro" scheme. (It's a bit different than in W:A.) Newcomers have 0% chance of ever getting in the top 20 even if they grind all day because they never reset the leaderboards and it basically just comes down to grinding out the most games. There's some people who do nothing but play like 10 ranked games a day every day since the game came out.
13. Starting order is randomized in response to people complaining about first turn advantage. While a lot of people really like this change, I don't... whether that is a 1-on-1 match or a 6-player match. I don't like it because it forces you to pick suboptimal placements. If I *know* that I am going second, I can more wisely select my spawn points... same with going first. When it is randomized you basically just have to play it safe, which I personally don't like but whatever.
14. There is so much mobility in the game. Even though the maps are huge by default W:A standards, it's still really easy to get around because you have teleports, 3 types of ninja ropes, parachute, a combat parachute (that lets you basically ignore wind), jetpacks, jetpack eco (which basically halves fuel consumption), party balloons, plus you can manually activate parachutes at any time... so someone could flagpole up, then activate their chute and float to the other side of the map. On top of that, many vehicles offer a lot of mobility. The helicopter is like an unlimited jetpack. The Rocket League car is fast and can double jump really high. The mech can glide really far. The drillboat can float on water. The only vehicle with shitty mobility options is the tank... but it's a tank and can take loads of damage before blowing up. Mobility is problematic in WMD.
15. Fall damage is very forgiving compared to W:A. You can drop much further than before without taking damage or losing a turn.
16. It's difficult to predict exactly how far away you need to be from an explosion to prevent taking damage. There's like an invisible shockwave that goes beyond the actual bounds of the explosion that damages worms which look like they should be safely far away. The only way to prevent taking damage is to put as much space between your worm and the explosion as possible.
17. Hardly anyone chats, voice or text... in game OR in the global lobby.
18. There's only maybe 6-7 terrain themes. The themes themselves look great, but it gets stale fast.
19. Lots of scheme types simply cannot be played in WMD due to lack of options.
20. The player base is divided between Steam, GOG, XB1, PS4, and Switch. Most days the Steam version of WMD feels about as active as W:A, but it's probably a little more active.
21. Lack of previous gameplay features that were excellent and added nice dimensionality to the game, such as dynamic water, worm classes, physics objects, etc.
blah blah blah
I can go on and on but anyway I just wanted to share some insights. WMD could have been a fantastic game but Team17 dropped the ball once again. I think that casuals and noobs would love WMD, especially for local multiplayer and whatnot, but for serious competition and deep gameplay, it's a stinker.
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Good for you.
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The only way you gain momentum from the rope is by pressing up. You can't bounce yourself off of walls/terrain/ceilings/etc to gain speed. In fact, that often deadens your momentum.
Does this apply to all three rope types?
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That's not true. You can gain momentum by holding Up + Left/Right when you bounce off of a wall, it's just unpredictable. You need to release Up arrow key at the right time or you may lose momentum (seems to depend on the rope angle/length). You can adapt to it but it's still annoying and unpredictable.
In this video you can see that I gained momentum from the walls. I didn't lose momentum at any point either ;)
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It's just because of your issues with Worms Series other than Worms Armageddon. Honestly, I don't bother uninstailing non-WA games in the Worms series, cause you know, what I am making with them as a base. Worms Story Mods in the Worms NT series are all based on PC Worms games (except for some cut-outs, like Worms: Boggy's Memories (a DS game)). But hey, since you denied my Worms story mods, you'll go the hard way in Worms NT series from now on.
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Aww skunk. Can't say you didn't give it a try. I think most people stopped way before they even got to discovering the game in-depth and its strategic/tactic abilities.
I wonder what T17 is up to now. I think your criticism is only partly fair. They had big plans with this game, developing it into an e-sports game with wide appeal, etc. But the player base just wasn't there.. from day 1 on. I think it's fairly obvious to them that the lack of success of this game makes any real investments in it a waste of resources and time. That and the obvious boasting for sales.
But yeh, wonder if they gonna make a new worms title anytime soon, or just leave it to rot in pieces.
Many developers are like this, but yeh, worms didn't get lucky :(
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I wonder what T17 is up to now. [...] They had big plans with this game, developing it into an e-sports game with wide appeal, etc.
What, did you actually believe that?
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That's not true. You can gain momentum by holding Up + Left/Right when you bounce off of a wall, it's just unpredictable. You need to release Up arrow key at the right time or you may lose momentum (seems to depend on the rope angle/length). You can adapt to it but it's still annoying and unpredictable.
In this video you can see that I gained momentum from the walls. I didn't lose momentum at any point either ;)
I love the speed at which the rope attaches to the wall. WA needs that.
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I wonder what T17 is up to now. [...] They had big plans with this game, developing it into an e-sports game with wide appeal, etc.
What, did you actually believe that?
No. But I imagine T17 would do more updates/fixes if the title had proven succesful, which seems the logical thing to do. The company had an interest in investing in a (competitive) community because it would attract more players > more sells. I'm pretty sure their initial targets were limited, but I'm sure they counted on more than getting max 6 players to sign up for their community events :-[
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Jonno must be sad with that news!
Install again ae buddy!
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I love the speed at which the rope attaches to the wall. WA needs that.
I don't, and I guess many people in our community will agree with me.
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No. But I imagine T17 would do more updates/fixes if the title had proven succesful, which seems the logical thing to do. The company had an interest in investing in a (competitive) community because it would attract more players > more sells. I'm pretty sure their initial targets were limited, but I'm sure they counted on more than getting max 6 players to sign up for their community events :-[
Look at TUS Cups as well. Sure, ppl sign up, but then after couple months it's forgotten.
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No. But I imagine T17 would do more updates/fixes if the title had proven succesful, which seems the logical thing to do. The company had an interest in investing in a (competitive) community because it would attract more players > more sells. I'm pretty sure their initial targets were limited, but I'm sure they counted on more than getting max 6 players to sign up for their community events :-[
Team17 already has an eSports-ready game. They just need to remaster it.
Just imagine, WA with high-res assets, a ranking system, and NO OTHER CHANGES.
Glorious.
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If they remaster wa I’m sure they will mess something up :-X
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When I take a look at games played I see days, sometimes even a week between games, there is no doubt competitive W:A is nearing it's end.
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Competitive W:A gaming is dying for sure unless somehow loads of inactive people all of a sudden decide to start playing again, actively. I never thought that I would miss the days when people were spamming for clanners and tus/tel matches in AG... but now, I strangely do.
Anyway, Anubis, what you said is correct but I don't think that the momentum actually comes from bouncing off of the wall as much as it does simply pressing up at the right moment. It's very fickle and often doesn't work, at least in a predictable way as in W:A. The WMD rope(s) are usable enough for basic maneuvering but by W:A standards it's kinda pathetic. Also, hardly anyone in WMD has much skill with the rope anyway, so there's rarely rope-based schemes hosted, and those that do get hosted are typically really dumb schemes with tons of crafting crates.
@HHC - I think my comments are totally fair. I've sunk 700+ hours into WMD. Team17 talked a lot but didn't deliver. I don't think that WMD is a terrible game. It just could have been SO MUCH BETTER if they had:
1. Had a beta with veteran players giving input
2. Continued development of the game as they said they would
3. Hadn't made a roadmap that they didn't stick to whatsoever after 1 month or so, lol
4. Hadn't went completely silent on the Steam forums and elsewhere regarding the state of the game and future updates
5. Hadn't priced the game at $30 USD... so many more people would have bought the game if it were a bit less expensive. It didn't go on sale for quite a while and although the sales did help with the player base a bit, it was too little, too late
6. Hadn't split the player base up between Steam, GOG, PS4, XB1, and now Switch
etc etc.
I just got tired of playing WMD due to the fact that I'd lose games fairly often due to nothing more than sheer luck and/or unpredictability. Crafting ruins the experience, utterly. Also, the max round time in WMD is 30 minutes and there is no control over water rise speed. What this means is that if the game actually goes that long, which it often doesn't due to mobility and crafting stupid weapons, most players cannot reliably make long distance shots or even have good strategies in mind for how to deal with the situation other than: "I will drop a sentry, surround myself with girders, spam magnets, and wait until the last second to win with a cheesy weapon like a homing missile or a training shotgun." For some inexplicable reason, the homing missile in WMD now ignores magnets when the thruster is on. What a dumb decision there...
The base gameplay and strategy in Worms: Clan Wars was much better, even if the game engine itself sucked.
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Team17 talked a lot but didn't deliver. I don't think that WMD is a terrible game. It just could have been SO MUCH BETTER if they had:
1. Had a beta with veteran players giving input
Especially this. They only started talking to us AFTER all the launch features were set in stone, and never gave a real explanation why we weren't let in on the ground floor. At least the Mechwarrior Online and Halo 5 teams had a pretense of involving pro players early, even if little of their advice was used.
Pandering to casuals will make your game sell faster, but balancing for the hardcore will get you longevity.
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Team17 has admittedly been making Worms games catered towards newcomers/casuals for quite some time. I remember suggesting a bunch of additional weapons and utilities to be added right after WMD launched and one of the Team17 folks replied saying that if they added the weapons that I suggested, there would be too much stuff in the game and it would confuse and overwhelm people. ::)
Reloaded, Revolution, and Clan Wars all had good aspects and bad aspects, but one of the most annoying bad aspects is that they were all clearly made for consoles first and foremost because they obviously wanted to sell the games on as many platforms as possible to make the most money they could. WMD felt a bit better in this regard, but was still obviously suffering from console-itis as the game didn't even launch with a global chat lobby. I'd like to think that I have myself to thank for Team17 adding it to the game as I am the one who initially suggested it and harped about it until they added it, as half-assed and suboptimal as it ended up being.
I still find it so hilarious that they marketed the game as having "over 80" items to use, yet most of those items are just OP versions of a base item... and we don't even get an option for them to drop in crates, or to make custom schemes that start with more than 5 craftable items... and when the game came out we didn't even have the option to choose up to 5 craftable items as starting inventory! They added that later based on community feedback!
There are so many idiotic decisions surrounding WMD that could have been fixed prior to launch by simply having a beta. The initial reception of the game would have been much better, it would have sold more, and would be more popular today. My support of Team17 feels similar to a guy refusing to leave his wife even though she cheats on him. I'm Worms-cucked.
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I'm howing my project doesn't end up like wmd.
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"So, I uninstalled WMD".........
BUT I DIDN'T EVEN PLAY WMD YET, AND PROPERLY1!!111!!!11111ONE1!!!!1111
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The only way that WMD could be worse is if they used Microtransactions!
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Honestly WMD is NOT a bad game at all. The main problem with WMD is that it could have been so much better in several ways if they just continued supporting it and if they had an extensive alpha/beta test period with people who know what they are talking about, not just random noobs. The current word from Team17 (as of the time of this writing) is that Team17 is planning on releasing a patch sometime soon but from what I understand, it's basically just going to be bug fixes and not anything substantial. I've posted to the Steam forums some basic improvements that could be made to the game without substantial work on Team17's part... primarily added options. Team17 is still claiming that they don't plan on releasing another Worms title in the forseeable future, which makes some people happy but bums other people out.
I actually reinstalled WMD a couple of weeks ago and I've been playing it a bit here and there. I am so used to the certain shortcomings and annoyances of the game that I can now enjoy it for what it is... a Worms game that had potential to be awesome but fell way short of the mark. My primary gripe with WMD these days is the fact that it is very hard to find good matches. I don't know if it's because of my time zone or what, but the game is pretty dead most of the time, and when you can find matches hosted, 9 times out of 10 the scheme is something retarded, like... 60 second turns with infinite ropes and infinite hhg's and tons of crafting crates. The skill level of the average WMD player is terrible. I regularly will play games with 3 or 4 players vs. me and I win almost all of the time. My unranked win rate is about 65% because I play so many stupid schemes in which almost anyone can win. My ranked win rate is about 65% as well because the ranked scheme is trash and crafting makes it so that you cannot possibly predict what anyone is going to use at any given time, which throws off classic Worms strategy. You have 2 worms fairly close to each other? They will just craft a poison grenade 2 seconds before the end of your turn. They used their dynamite already and you have a worm at 59 hp? They will craft a triple barrel shotgun. They wasted their ropes and jetpack and you have the high ground? They will craft a triple bunker buster. It's so cheesy and dumb that I refuse to play ranked anymore now that I have my Armageddon level unlocks. (Flaming power bar, etc.)
Also, one thing that I really hate about WMD is the fact that basically nobody chats at all. Not even text chat. The game has built-in voice chat and NOBODY uses it. The games feel lonely because nobody talks.
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Where is Jonno? lol
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Where is Jonno? lol
He's sucking Team17''s dick
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Where is Jonno? lol
He's sucking Team17''s dick
hmmm like i thought!
he left worms WMD 1st than skunk3
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Where is Jonno? lol
He's sucking Team17''s dick
hmmm like i thought!
he left worms WMD 1st than skunk3
Yes and now he's f@#!ing Team17's ass.
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Where is Jonno? lol
Jonno is a cool guy. I don't know why you guys hate him so much. He isn't a dev. He doesn't have control over anything. All he does is relay information.
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I dont hate him, i just miss him
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just married and already flirting with other men, class act this nino guy ???
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Cos king ae