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May 28, 2020, 02:32 PM

Author Topic: Team17 has announced Worms 2020  (Read 1235 times)

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Offline Anubis

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2020, 05:57 PM »
I agree with komo, noobs and trends make the big cash. Not oldies that linger on forums.

Offline HHC

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2020, 07:48 PM »
Worms WMD really isn't THAT BAD. The problem with it is that it needed more development time as well as a closed beta with experienced Wormers.

I still play WMD frequently and have a lot of fun with it. I know that a lot of people here think that any Worms title post-WWP is complete trash but I disagree. I think there are good ideas in all of them. Team17's failure is recognizing what is good and not carrying it over to subsequent titles. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and instead just make each game incrementally better, despite the inevitable bitching about how each new game isn't that much different from the last.

If they spent like 6-8 more months developing WMD with good feedback and effort it could smash W:A, honestly.

As far as the new game goes, I can only assume that it is going to be a 3D title, or 2.5D at best based upon the renders in that video. The noobs and casuals are dying for another 3D Worms title. I know this because I talk to a lot of them, and I guess Team17 is compelled to answer. This will be the first game that I don't pre-order. Against all reason I have had blind loyalty to the Worms franchise for a very long time and I just can't support them anymore if they are going to continue to make stupid decisions regarding my beloved franchise. They really need to start listening to longtime fans instead of catering to noobs and trends.

Good rant skunk.

I'm not too sure about the last bit though. It seems that when you ask oldtimers what the new game should be like, the answer you'll get is always the same: make it just like WA.

But as you mention before, there are interesting concepts in all titles after WWP. In every game there's at least 2 or 3 components that DO work and feel fresh.

The main issue for me always was the shitty multiplayer mode. The game is perfectly suited for a quick pick-up-and-play online battle mode, but it never lived up to that. Rounds seem to last ever longer, the gameplay seems slow, even moving a worm across the map has become a hassle..
The online servers are crap, the online rankings are stupid (1 pt for every win, 0 for a loss...) and there's always the connectivity issues.

The biggest joke was Clan Wars by far. Intended to be played online the servers were a complete mess from the start. I think on day 3 the online multiplayer was already dead.

It's a shame, because anyone can see the huge potential for this game, especially on mobile devices.
It just needs a company that knows how to cather games to a large audience.. and well, perhaps a development crew that is larger than 3.  ;D




Offline TheWalrus

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2020, 10:52 PM »
The question is, will worms 2020 be as good as:

Worms 2016
Worms 2014
Worms 2013
Worms 2012
Worms 2011
Worms 2010
Worms 2009
Worms 2008
Worms 2007
Worms 2005
Worms 2004
Worms 2003

The only silver lining here is this is by far the longest gap (4 years) in between worms games since the series started in 1995, small chance they are trying to not fuck it up.  More likely they are too busy developing spinoffs of other companies IP's (overcooked, escapists).
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 11:02 PM by TheWalrus »

Offline Edoardo Moretti

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Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #33 on: May 09, 2020, 12:43 PM »
The question is, will worms 2020 be as good as:

Worms 2016
Worms 2014
Worms 2013
Worms 2012
Worms 2011
Worms 2010
Worms 2009
Worms 2008
Worms 2007
Worms 2005
Worms 2004
Worms 2003

I hope that the levels, hats, weapons, flags, speechs and graves will be good as Worms Reloaded and not lazy and bad speechs like Worms Battle Islands and Worms Forts.

I'll cross the fingers, even if Worms 2020 will be delayed.

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2020, 06:49 PM »
Worms WMD really isn't THAT BAD. The problem with it is that it needed more development time as well as a closed beta with experienced Wormers.

I still play WMD frequently and have a lot of fun with it. I know that a lot of people here think that any Worms title post-WWP is complete trash but I disagree. I think there are good ideas in all of them. Team17's failure is recognizing what is good and not carrying it over to subsequent titles. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and instead just make each game incrementally better, despite the inevitable bitching about how each new game isn't that much different from the last.

If they spent like 6-8 more months developing WMD with good feedback and effort it could smash W:A, honestly.

As far as the new game goes, I can only assume that it is going to be a 3D title, or 2.5D at best based upon the renders in that video. The noobs and casuals are dying for another 3D Worms title. I know this because I talk to a lot of them, and I guess Team17 is compelled to answer. This will be the first game that I don't pre-order. Against all reason I have had blind loyalty to the Worms franchise for a very long time and I just can't support them anymore if they are going to continue to make stupid decisions regarding my beloved franchise. They really need to start listening to longtime fans instead of catering to noobs and trends.

Don't you rant regularly on the WMD steam forum how bad WMD is? Crafting being the worst offender making every weapon on the fly.. I remember lengthy posts from you between guys on the forum on how bad the game is. Heck, lots of the regulars there see you as a "hater". lol

Yes, I post on those forums quite a bit and still do from time to time. In fact, it was my complaining that got a lot of things fixed and added to the game. Also, yes, you are right that a lot of people on there see me as a hater but as time has gone by more and more people have come to realize that what I was saying was correct all along. I wouldn't say that the game is bad at all... in fact, I even changed my initial negative review to a positive one. My main gripe with WMD is undoubtedly crafting, and has been from the start. It doesn't add any 'strategy' to the game whatsoever despite what noobs and casuals believe. Crafting just serves as a handicap feature which allows people to make items to overcome their deficiencies as players. Can't rope worth a shit? Just craft a jetpack. Can't make long range bng shots? Just craft a 'point and click' item. Heck, people can craft at any point during a turn and the item is immediately available on their next turn, which means that in a 1 vs 1 you can watch your opponent's turn and craft the perfect item to screw them over 1 second before their turn is up. That's so cheesy and lame in my personal opinion. There's still a litany of things that are bad or even broken in WMD that piss me off but on the whole it *is* a decent game and worth playing, especially when W:A activity is so low.

Worms WMD really isn't THAT BAD. The problem with it is that it needed more development time as well as a closed beta with experienced Wormers.

I still play WMD frequently and have a lot of fun with it. I know that a lot of people here think that any Worms title post-WWP is complete trash but I disagree. I think there are good ideas in all of them. Team17's failure is recognizing what is good and not carrying it over to subsequent titles. They need to stop trying to reinvent the wheel and instead just make each game incrementally better, despite the inevitable bitching about how each new game isn't that much different from the last.

If they spent like 6-8 more months developing WMD with good feedback and effort it could smash W:A, honestly.

As far as the new game goes, I can only assume that it is going to be a 3D title, or 2.5D at best based upon the renders in that video. The noobs and casuals are dying for another 3D Worms title. I know this because I talk to a lot of them, and I guess Team17 is compelled to answer. This will be the first game that I don't pre-order. Against all reason I have had blind loyalty to the Worms franchise for a very long time and I just can't support them anymore if they are going to continue to make stupid decisions regarding my beloved franchise. They really need to start listening to longtime fans instead of catering to noobs and trends.

Good rant skunk.

I'm not too sure about the last bit though. It seems that when you ask oldtimers what the new game should be like, the answer you'll get is always the same: make it just like WA.

But as you mention before, there are interesting concepts in all titles after WWP. In every game there's at least 2 or 3 components that DO work and feel fresh.

The main issue for me always was the shitty multiplayer mode. The game is perfectly suited for a quick pick-up-and-play online battle mode, but it never lived up to that. Rounds seem to last ever longer, the gameplay seems slow, even moving a worm across the map has become a hassle..
The online servers are crap, the online rankings are stupid (1 pt for every win, 0 for a loss...) and there's always the connectivity issues.

The biggest joke was Clan Wars by far. Intended to be played online the servers were a complete mess from the start. I think on day 3 the online multiplayer was already dead.

It's a shame, because anyone can see the huge potential for this game, especially on mobile devices.
It just needs a company that knows how to cather games to a large audience.. and well, perhaps a development crew that is larger than 3.  ;D

I'm not sure what you mean by rounds lasting longer. For me they feel shorter than ever because in WMD there's only one sudden death mode - water rise. The water rise speed isn't adjustable at all and it is pretty fast, so depending on the map, once SD kicks in the game is over very quickly. On top of that, many people prefer to play games with short round timers rather than 30 minutes (which is the max) or simply have SD turned off completely, which is what I prefer because with the water rise every game in WMD invariably becomes "king of the mountain" and people just try to take over and defend the tallest part of the map from the start of the game, and with crafting, crate drops, vehicles, and lots of OP weapons available, whoever wins often has less to do with skill and strategy than random luck - especially if you aren't playing 1 vs 1 ranked. It's especially annoying when hosts want, say, 60 second turn timers yet set the round timer to 15/20 minutes. If there's a full lobby of 6 players that means that each player oftentimes doesn't even have the chance to use all of their worms before SD kicks in... and that's assuming that the game is set to 4 worms per team and not more. It's ridiculous but sadly a lot of people love that end game king of the mountain shit.

I totally agree with you that the online servers are crap. What annoys me the most is that games in progress show up in the game list but there's no way to filter them out and open lobbies that have not started playing yet are randomly mixed in with games in progress, and when you try to scroll through the list it's buggy and always brings you right back to the top of the list, so joining a game is oftentimes a pain in the ass. I also agree that the ranking system sucks and I've been very outspoken on this issue on the Steam forums since the game started. I initially only played ranked enough to get my armageddon-level unlocks and that's it. However, somehow my ranking got reset and I had to start over from scratch, which I did. After that I stopped playing because there's no point to it. The rankings never get reset, and because of the stupid system whoever is ranked highest is simply whoever grinds the most. Win/loss record barely has anything to do with it. I've played against pretty much all of the top 100 ranked players, and of those players I'd say that only 1/4 of them are what I'd consider good. Also, since crafting is a part of ranked mode, there's a pretty clear meta involved with 90% of people crafting the same small handful of items... so it's not just the ranking system itself that is problematic, but the ranked scheme as well, or LACK OF different ranked schemes.

I played Clan Wars for quite a while and I don't know what you're talking about regarding dead servers... granted, I did play it's PS4 counterpart far more than the Steam version, but the game was fairly active for a long time and TBH in terms of overall strategy and gameplay I'd say that Clan Wars is the best Worms title since WWP! It's quite good once you get used to the janky 2.5D nature of it.

As far as Worms 2020 goes, the teaser trailer doesn't really give us any info at all other than that the worm itself is rendered in 3D. It will probably suck and be released too early with lots of bugs and features missing, as usual.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2020, 06:55 PM by skunk3 »

Offline Senator

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #35 on: May 19, 2020, 11:36 AM »
My main gripe with WMD is undoubtedly crafting, and has been from the start. It doesn't add any 'strategy' to the game whatsoever despite what noobs and casuals believe. Crafting just serves as a handicap feature which allows people to make items to overcome their deficiencies as players. Can't rope worth a shit? Just craft a jetpack. Can't make long range bng shots? Just craft a 'point and click' item.

They just implemented crafting poorly. Crafting requires resource management and thinking what items you need and don't need so it can add some strategy/depth to the game. I don't craft the same items in every game. There's some variation - not much but still.

Too bad we can't still adjust crafting costs and what items can be crafted/dismantled so we are stuck with their poor decisions.

Heck, people can craft at any point during a turn and the item is immediately available on their next turn, which means that in a 1 vs 1 you can watch your opponent's turn and craft the perfect item to screw them over 1 second before their turn is up. That's so cheesy and lame in my personal opinion.

I don't understand why you think it's a bad thing that you can immediately punish your opponent for a mistake. That requires fast thinking and reacting.

I initially only played ranked enough to get my armageddon-level unlocks and that's it. However, somehow my ranking got reset and I had to start over from scratch, which I did. After that I stopped playing because there's no point to it. The rankings never get reset, and because of the stupid system whoever is ranked highest is simply whoever grinds the most. Win/loss record barely has anything to do with it. I've played against pretty much all of the top 100 ranked players, and of those players I'd say that only 1/4 of them are what I'd consider good.

Feel free to join these tournaments run by the community: https://challonge.com/1x1ProLeagueSEASON5

We have a Steam channel for scheduling matches etc. Different time zones are not a problem.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2020, 12:03 PM by Senator »

Offline skunk3

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2020, 07:51 PM »
Crafting doesn't really require much resource management at all. The lowest grade of crafting materials are essentially infinite because one can just infinitely deconstruct infinite items. The next grade up is a little harder to come by but with crafting crates turned on you never know what you might get. Also regular weapon crate drops can contain items that are kinda crap (like sheep, etc) that you can deconstruct for materials. Of course not everyone crafts the same items in every single game but of the 'over 80' items in the game, how many actually get crafted? Maybe a dozen at the very most? It's so very random and unpredictable and the coin crate system that they used in Revolution / Clan Wars was much better and easier to keep track of.

A huge part of Worms gameplay has always been paying attention to what your opponent(s) has used during the course of a match so you can know what they have available. Of course, random crate drops are a thing in a lot of schemes but still... the other games also don't have drones that people can spam, which is a major problem in WMD. For the most part, you start with your inventory and that's that. In WMD there is practically no way of knowing what anyone has in their inventory at any time, which doesn't add to the strategy of the game, but rather diminishes it. You can't make intelligent decisions based upon what they have used. Well, you can to a degree, but at best all one can do is cross one's fingers and hope that they don't have sufficient materials available to craft an item that can perfectly screw you over. Default Worms gameplay is largely based upon observation and prediction, but WMD completely ruins that because you have to expect that anyone could have any item at any time, which leads to suboptimal plays and positioning based upon paranoia and unpredictability.

Also, being able to craft right before someone's turn ends and have that item immediately available to use the next round is just plain cheesy. It doesn't take skill or really even "fast thinking and reacting." As long as you have your crafting tab open you can easily craft anything you want at the end of someone else's turn without the need to be exceptionally quick about it. I think that there should be AT LEAST a 1-round delay between crafting an item and being able to use it just to prevent cheese.

I actually really like the graphics and art style of WMD. I also love the concept of buildings and tunnels that they added. However, a lot of the rest of what they added is either broken or not very useful. Weapon emplacements are often kinda useless depending upon where they spawn. Random starting magnets? Useless since they only last a couple of turns and then they are deactivated. I do like random neutral sentry guns on the maps. Vehicles are cheesy and lame and can be exploited, and if one player gets a lucky vehicle drop it can easily make the difference between a win and a loss. Crafting is by far the worst though and even though the meta of which items are generally 'best' to craft (and most commonly-crafted) is clear and I can to some degree predict what someone will craft or has crafted already, there's no way of knowing for sure. Vehicle mines are also basically useless 95% of the time.

Imagine if crafting were a thing in W:A and you're playing Elite, for example. It would COMPLETELY change the dynamic of the scheme, and for the worse. It would be poison nades everywhere, just like ranked is in WMD. Speaking of poison, one thing that Worms Reloaded and the next 2 titles did well was making poison not be able to magically pass right through solid terrain. In W:A and WMD the poison goes right through, which I think is ridiculous.


edit: Also, another thing that sucks about WMD is the fact that in team matches there is no option for all members of the team to have a shared inventory. Everyone gets their own inventory with their own pool of crafting materials and if one player collects a crate only they can use it. That sucks. I think that by DEFAULT team matches should have a shared inventory so players are forced to communicate and strategize.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 07:54 PM by skunk3 »

Offline TheMadCharles

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #37 on: May 22, 2020, 08:50 AM »
[...]other companies IP's (overcooked, escapists)
funny how you mention that, both Escapists and Overcooked are published by T17, but unlike these two titles they don't plaster their logos on these games


Offline Shadow-The-Worm

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #38 on: Yesterday at 10:48 AM »
Bah. Almost evey single one of you is a wit-wit, cry-cry about Worms newer than W:A. The time goes on, but still, the majority of you cry and plead for new stuff WITHOUT mostly liking any bit of it or making any use out of the game the way it is (even if it's a lame one by your standards). WORMS ARE NOW HAT SIMULATOR! DON'T PLEAD, DEAL WITH IT! Tell me, what do you prefer more of the two (none is not an option): a Hat Simulator like Worms or TF2 or a Story-Loop simulator like Mario?
I don't want to harm anybody, but when I am triggered, you'll see no mercy, only angry reaction.

Offline Sensei

Re: Team17 has announced Worms 2020
« Reply #39 on: Yesterday at 11:33 AM »
Badass shadow putting whole wa community in its place..
Nice!! Who are you, again?? :)
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 11:35 AM by Sensei »
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