Hysteria - telecow

[Chicken23]

I just played a hysteria for TUS vs Lancelot and he didn't like that I was piling with teleport. I personally think Hysteria is a bit of a broken scheme and not a massive fan of it. Could the scheme rules be updated to say piling is illegal as a new house rule if that is how people prefer to play it today?

[XanKriegor]

Im much allergic to the turn abuse but Hyst isnt BnG to stay anchored.

[TheKomodo]

Not this again...

Holy moly guacamole I wish people would stop saying the scheme is broken when that is literally not true! 

Read through the debate in this thread which is the most recent discussion of Hysteria regarding this:

https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-16/

It's ridiculous people even complain about turn abuse in this scheme when turn abuse is a fundamental tactic of the whole f**king franchise!  

I wish people would cut the bs and just state the truth, they simply don't like the scheme and can't handle it as it is. Just stop saying it's broken, it's not! 

If the vast majority of people want to change it, fine, but please stop saying it's broken when it's not. 

Also, the term "telecow" itself is ridiculous and doesn't make sense, since Hysteria has no rules, it's impossible to "cow" because in the world of Worms Armageddon, "cow" means you broke a rule, so it's not exactly the smartest thing to say lol. 

[Lancelot]

I do not see any strategy in this scheme to shout what to think here.
As practice shows, the vast majority of games are played through accurate shooting at the enemy.

In the last game with Chicken, I shot my opponent in the game, but he used the cow tactics to neutralize my total advantage in worms.

I will still consider that this is a very dirty trick.

[Squirminator2k]

You don't have to like it for it to be an acceptable method of play. Case in point: Darkside play as a whole. The manuals for Worms, Worms: The Director's Cut, Worms 2 and Armageddon all describe Darkside play as underhanded and sneaky, but doesn't explicitly forbid it.

[TheKomodo]

To be honest, that's a fair response from Lancelot, he said he doesn't see strategy, not that it actually isn't there, just that he doesn't recognize it, which is fine.

And he considers it a dirty trick, but tbh that doesn't matter because it's just an opinion.

It's when people start labelling their opinions as facts that trouble starts.

If he cannot think ahead and protect his worms efficiently, that's his problem not ours anyway.

If he doesn't like it, whoop-dee-doo, the world would be boring if everyone liked the same things.

[Squirminator2k]

Exactly. If you don't like it, fine, but that doesn't make it an illegal move. That's akin to complaining that your opponent in Chess has put their Knight somewhere that f@#!s up your planned victory. "I've been using a very particular strategy, and if you move your Knight in that position it totally throws off my entire gameplan!"

Which... yeah. That's Chess. Restrategize.

[TheKomodo]

In the last game with Chicken, I shot my opponent in the game, but he used the cow tactics to neutralize my total advantage in worms.

I actually forgot to address this.

Lancelot, it is a fact, that you are wrong here. It is not arguable, or up for debate.

A "cow" implies there was a rule broken, there are no rules in Hysteria, so it is 100% impossible to ever "cow" or use "cow tactics" in Hysteria.

Of course you can use the weapon called "Mad Cows", but that isn't the same as the term "cow" used for breaking rules.

For sure, you can say you don't like it, but just remember if you use the term "cow" in Hysteria, you are literally wrong, and will appear ignorant.

[Chicken23]

the reason I started the thread was to ask if the current 'active' community was more against piling or don't mind it?

[TheKomodo]

Good luck getting them to post here. 

I mean, old people still have a right to vote.

I have to stand up for what I believe is the right choice anyway, and inform those who have been mislead by false information. As I still intend to come back and play Clanners in the future, i'm mostly busy with Uni stuff right now but summer time should be free more to play with Korydex and co. 

[Lancelot]

Having played another league game of hysteria, I made another conclusion that attempts to make something similar from the scheme for tactical and strategic moves lead to the fact that I personally become uninteresting to play hysteria within the league. I have said so before and will remain of this opinion. The scheme is tailored for shooting and changing positions, and not using dirty moves.

[FoxHound]

You should really try Selecsteria then.

[TheWalrus]

If piling is illegal hysteria needs worm placement.  Making it illegal to pile puts too much emphasis on the advantageousness of the starting positions.  I’ve written paragraphs and paragraphs on game theory with hysteria, but simply removing telecow does not make the the scheme a better competitive scheme, just more broken.  The top hysteria players are the best not because they are the most cheap, but the most skilled. 

[Lancelot]

If piling is illegal hysteria needs worm placement.  Making it illegal to pile puts too much emphasis on the advantageousness of the starting positions.  I’ve written paragraphs and paragraphs on game theory with hysteria, but simply removing telecow does not make the the scheme a better competitive scheme, just more broken.  The top hysteria players are the best not because they are the most cheap, but the most skilled.

И снова все упирается в тактические нюансы. Я не буду ничего больше говорить об этом, уже все написал выше. Пускай каждый останется при своем мнении.

And again, it all comes down to tactical nuances. I will not say anything more about this, I have already written everything above. Let everyone remain unconvinced.

[Senator]

If piling is illegal hysteria needs worm placement.  Making it illegal to pile puts too much emphasis on the advantageousness of the starting positions.  I’ve written paragraphs and paragraphs on game theory with hysteria, but simply removing telecow does not make the the scheme a better competitive scheme, just more broken.

This.

It's ridiculous people even complain about turn abuse in this scheme when turn abuse is a fundamental tactic of the whole f**king franchise!  

Yeah but turn rotation abuse in Hysteria is overwhelming and also easier to execute. In Elite teleports and mobility are limited. In Intermediate you have worm selects. In Team17 you have worm select and you can group your worms before the SD starts. In Hysteria you can get close to winning solely by abusing turn rotation and forcing SD. Then it comes down to 1 or 2 shots. Even the best players miss those sometimes. To me Hysteria is like playing BnG with 50 HP or so (who gets to shoot first is determined by the early game). The better aimer wins most of the time but I'd imagine the winning ratios of the top players to be slightly worse.