Forums
August 24, 2019, 12:33 PM

Poll

Are you ok with  having no parachute in rope based schemes like shopper, wxw, big rr, and roper?

Yes
7 (26.9%)
No
19 (73.1%)

Total Members Voted: 26

Author Topic: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes  (Read 1424 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #90 on: August 13, 2019, 10:04 PM »
You must have a lot of bruises by now  :D

Yeah but I can take a punch, you just get knocked the f**k out and wake up later in denial.

You don't get to decide too, Komodo.

I'm not the one saying either or is better, all i've been saying is using parachute is not a bad thing, and learning how to rope with parachute is generally considered a faster method than learning without, and i've already explained why, I never said it's "better", that's up to each person to decide for themselves as some people prefer learning fast, some prefer learning slowly.

Because with parachute, you may have a good time, but when no parachute element was introduced, it caused a line between parachute and no parachute. Ergo, having parachute is less risky. But again, you can rope fast etc with parachute, just as you can with no parachute, excluding parachute tricks.

You have been caught red handed being a hypocrite, by the literal definition of the word.

You could either apologize for being a hypocrite, or stop complaining about other people doing the same thing that you are doing.

Stop trying to wriggle your way out of it, your reply here has nothing to do with you being called out for being a hypocrite.

So you are a doctor now who gives diagnoses on a Worms forum? LMAO.. That's hilarious man  :D

I never said I was a doctor, and one doesn't need to be a doctor to understand the English language.

If you think I am delusional etc, good for you.

It's not good for either of us, and I don't get some sort of satisfaction for saying it, I said it because it's simply a word, and what the word means fits your actions in this thread.

I don't think I am any better, or any worse, more or less important than any human on this planet, let alone in this thread.

Think of it this way, I am not debating with YOU, I am debating with the words you are using, because of what words mean.

I am not desperate.

Stop acting like it then.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 10:06 PM by TheKomodo »

Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #91 on: August 13, 2019, 11:07 PM »
Quote
I'm not the one saying either or is better, all i've been saying is using parachute is not a bad thing, and learning how to rope with parachute is generally considered a faster method than learning without, and i've already explained why, I never said it's "better", that's up to each person to decide for themselves as some people prefer learning fast, some prefer learning slowly.
That's your opinion. I think one can learn faster without parachute. It all depends on the individual's learning capabilities. I can do with both parachute and without. But I prefer without, I told you why.

Quote
It's not good for either of us, and I don't get some sort of satisfaction for saying it, I said it because it's simply a word, and what the word means fits your actions in this thread.
In general, people like getting gratification by mostly anything. Even winning arguments and proving a point.

But I feel pity if you think you won anything here in this topic. I think you are wrong and is serious deranged.

Quote
Stop acting like it then.
Here's a novel tittle for you ''How to stop acting desperate when you're not''.


Offline TheKomodo

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #92 on: August 13, 2019, 11:37 PM »
That's your opinion.

One shared by probably almost everyone who has learned how to rope, because if learning was faster without parachute, that's how they would have learned.

It is quite fascinating how you fail to grasp this simple logic and psychology.


I think one can learn faster without parachute. It all depends on the individual's learning capabilities. I can do with both parachute and without. But I prefer without, I told you why.

How can you possibly think learning how to rope without parachute is faster  :D :D :D Man this sh*t cracks me up!

There is a saying - "Practise makes perfect", it's general knowledge to the human race that we master cognitive and motor skilled abilities by repeating things over and over.

We learn, remember and master how to talk by hearing them over and over and repeating them, using them again and again.

We learn, remember and master how to write by practising over and over again, which is why in school you practise handwriting A LOT!

We become more precise with our movements the more we do them.

If you use don't use parachute, learning how to rope will take longer in general simply because of the lost time from falling and waiting to start again, even more so when you are playing in a multiplayer game(which most people do). It has nothing to do with how hardcore you think you are because you are adding more risk to something you don't need to.

If you use parachute, learning how to rope will be much faster than without simply because of the time saved when you fail, you can get going again almost immediately so your flow doesn't break, it's easier to "stay in the zone" which refers to mental state of concentration.

Can you imagine 3-6 player Warmers back in the day without parachute? Having to wait so much longer to have your turn?

Not to mention, without parachute, as you have even said yourself, it's a lot riskier to attempt the faster, more difficult and impressive moves, and these moves take a lot of practise, and precise hand-eye coordination to master, so by using parachute, you simply save a lot of time, and get more practise in, so you will improve faster.

This is basic logic, physics and psychology.

It doesn't matter if you agree or not, those are cornerstones of our evolution as humans and the way we learn/do things that people with even a below average IQ will understand.

Sure, if you complete a TTRR and beat someone like daina, dibz, ryan, mablak or Nonentity without even using parachute, i'll be incredibly impressed, but I severely doubt that's ever gonna happen lol, and it still won't make you learn faster.

In general, people like getting gratification by mostly anything. Even winning arguments and proving a point.

That's true, but I don't, I feel good when i've helped someone learn something, not by making them feel bad because they lost.

I don't care if I win or lose usually, I like teaching, or being taught.

But I feel pity if you think you won anything here in this topic.

It's not a competition, it's weird if you think it is.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 11:51 PM by TheKomodo »

Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #93 on: August 13, 2019, 11:56 PM »
Quote
If you use parachute, learning how to rope will be much faster than without simply because of the time saved when you fail, you can get going again almost immediately so your flow doesn't break, it's easier to "stay in the zone" which refers to mental state of concentration.

Can you imagine 3-6 player Warmers back in the day without parachute? Having to wait so much longer to have your turn?

Not to mention, without parachute, as you have even said yourself, it's a lot riskier to attempt the faster, more difficult and impressive moves, and these moves take a lot of practise, and precise hand-eye coordination to master, so by using parachute, you simply save a lot of time, and get more practise in, so you will improve faster.

For beginners it could be troublesome as mentioned before, but I have heard no complaints, people have Improved under my games without parachute. If you really want to ''stay in the zone'', have ldet enabled. Or better yet, become a munk.

I don't need to imagine, because I can get long turns without parachute. In Zar roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it if it is serious game. It all depends on the player and how he/she/it wishes to play. If laid back and don't care, then fails could happen, but if serious, then less fail if person is trained and skilled enough. People are usually patient, as am I, so waiting say 30-60 seconds if many people in a game, no problem.

There are simply two training techniques one without chute and one with chute. IT depends on person, and their learning capabilities. Which one fancy more and so on. Again, no one new and experienced complains about this in my games.




Offline TheKomodo

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2019, 01:03 AM »
Damn, this was a long post, got me thinking about stuff  :D

Well, when we say "learn how to rope", aren't we assuming we are talking about beginners anyway?

I didn't say people can't improve without parachute, of course they can, because it's still practise.

I'm just saying that with parachute, they will improve faster.

And of course they can practise with ldet, as a matter of fact since ldet became a thing, you can learn to rope even faster!

Also with ldet in Big RR for example, 40s no banana, it means every player gets the same amount of time roping, and it helps keeps players interested when you have like 4 players, as sometimes players will quit if everyone else is having full turns, and they are losing their turn very fast and falling incredibly far behind. I know this isn't "honorable" in your opinion, but it's fun in casual games.

Of course this is no good in league matches as they don't allow ldet, but it's great for funners and learning!

Also, what is a munk?

Sure, you can get long turns without parachute, but can you get incredibly impressive turns that rival the greatest considered ropers of all time? Personally I think you are holding yourself back, but hey if you are happy we're all good :)

You keep saying "In ZaR roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it", but any successful person will tell you that you learn from your mistakes, and you keep trying over and over until you get it right, and I am confident enough to say most successful people, in many aspects of life will tell you that you will get better by pushing boundaries, by any means neccessary.

Because you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

Don't think of the parachute as a crutch, think of it as an asset, like using planes to fly, using vehicles to travel, having the internet to help us learn etc, it's a good thing because it helps us to become better faster!

Now, this completely matters on your mental state, you might be a "full send" type of guy, where you don't give a f**k and even without parachute you will try to go as fast as possible even if it takes many years until you master it! But it'll still take you longer than using parachute.

There are a lot more training techniques than just with chute and without chute.

Low gravity, ldet, rubberworm, just to name a few, and they are all useful in their own way, and I do believe roping without parachute is useful in some ways, but not quite as vastly as you do.




Talking about pushing boundaries and using chute etc has reminded me about one of the greatest things I was taught in life by my music tutor was "B.A.M.N!!!" - By Any Means Necessary!!!

It kinda comes down to a simple analogy in music production, one that has been passed around millions of musicians and producers/mixing engineers:

Quote
"I thought using loops was cheating, so I programmed my own using samples. I then thought using samples was cheating, so I recorded real drums. I then thought that programming it was cheating, so I learned to play drums for real. I then thought using bought drums was cheating, so I learned to make my own. I then thought using premade skins was cheating, so I killed a goat and skinned it. I then thought that that was cheating too, so I grew my own goat from a baby goat. I also think that is cheating, but I’m not sure where to go from here. I haven’t made any music lately, what with the goat farming and all."

Some people call using presets in synthesizers in music production cheating, with which I always reply with something M3ntal taught me - People who play pianos are using presets, people who play guitars are using presets, people who use drums are using presets, every instrument is a preset, and that's a good thing! It's the end result that matters!

Also, along with this amazing educational video:



Whether you do it faster, or do it slower, use already existing material, or new material, do whatever works for you!




My only problem I had with you in this thread Kradie, was you being negative towards people who use parachute. Instead of being clever and interesting in a way that promotes ZaR and not using parachute, you attacked a long standing tradition in this game, and called it inferior, weak, pathetic etc... And the funny thing is, you have every right to voice your opinions, but think about this, if you had said all your good opinions about not using parachute without saying any of your bad opinions about using parachute, this would have worked out a lot better for you.

Just remember the way you advertise and market certain things can have a drastic impact on how people perceive it and decide if they want to be involved or not.

Why do you think pretty much all real life advertising campaigns don't immediately attack other companies? They want to make you feel good, they want to trigger good, happy memories, not make you hate other things and trigger bad/spiteful memories, because people don't usually buy most things when they are angry!

A random example, take Nike, their adverts don't start with "Don't wear Adidas, you're weak if you wear Adidas, wear Nike, be hardcore warrior like us!" (Although that would probably be a pretty amusing advert lol)

Just something to consider...






Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2019, 02:46 PM »
Quote
Well, when we say "learn how to rope", aren't we assuming we are talking about beginners anyway?

I didn't say people can't improve without parachute, of course they can, because it's still practise.

I'm just saying that with parachute, they will improve faster.
Entirely subjective and not documented in WA.

Quote
And of course they can practise with ldet, as a matter of fact since ldet became a thing, you can learn to rope even faster!
That is so wrong and cringe worthy man. What drugs are you on? Sure I can get by ldet being a thing in warmers though.

Quote
Also with ldet in Big RR for example, 40s no banana, it means every player gets the same amount of time roping, and it helps keeps players interested when you have like 4 players, as sometimes players will quit if everyone else is having full turns, and they are losing their turn very fast and falling incredibly far behind. I know this isn't "honorable" in your opinion, but it's fun in casual games.
Wow so communistic. It is not honorable, if you fall behind, that's your fault! Even I can fall incredible far behind.

Quote
Sure, you can get long turns without parachute, but can you get incredibly impressive turns that rival the greatest considered ropers of all time? Personally I think you are holding yourself back, but hey if you are happy we're all good :)
ZaR has some extremely talented ropers, and one of them is particular pain in the ass to pin down. So, are you saying that I need to practice roping with traditional settings before considering beating anyone else that exceeds my own current skills either if they are ZaR or not? Quite frankly, I never fought to be the very best, but to Improve myself. With ZaR I have, and so have everyone else in it and outside of it.

Quote
You keep saying "In ZaR roper, you remember the fail, try not to repeat it", but any successful person will tell you that you learn from your mistakes, and you keep trying over and over until you get it right, and I am confident enough to say most successful people, in many aspects of life will tell you that you will get better by pushing boundaries, by any means neccessary.
So you are saying that in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute? If that is the case, this topic will never end.

Quote
Because you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

Komodo, I have seen impressive roping combined with high consistency in ZaR. Both can be applied there, and one does not to have to be a TAS to do it.  I have seen players complimenting other players on their perfectly executed turns. Turns that requires rapid momentum, precise maneuvers and tricks if necessary, tricks that can even further acceleration. If you do not believe this, you are in denial.
It is a good thing you are acknowledging that no parachute requires more consistency.

Quote
Don't think of the parachute as a crutch, think of it as an asset, like using planes to fly, using vehicles to travel, having the internet to help us learn etc, it's a good thing because it helps us to become better faster!
Sure, asset is fine. Fine for other modes.

Quote
There are a lot more training techniques than just with chute and without chute.
Yep.

Quote
My only problem I had with you in this thread Kradie, was you being negative towards people who use parachute. Instead of being clever and interesting in a way that promotes ZaR and not using parachute, you attacked a long standing tradition in this game, and called it inferior, weak, pathetic etc... And the funny thing is, you have every right to voice your opinions, but think about this, if you had said all your good opinions about not using parachute without saying any of your bad opinions about using parachute, this would have worked out a lot better for you
Worked out differently for me? Am I supposed to be in a tight spot here? Am I in trouble? Oh wow, I forgot that other in this thread attacked no parachute ropers too. Anyways man, this thread, this poll, shows one things. Majority on TuS, and legacy players are more comfortable & safe using parachute. While I, some legacy players, and new generation, are not.  It is about ''Ok, I don't mind roping without parachute''. It is not a gun to their heads saying ''Rope without parachute or else!''.

Quote
Just remember the way you advertise and market certain things can have a drastic impact on how people perceive it and decide if they want to be involved or not.

Why do you think pretty much all real life advertising campaigns don't immediately attack other companies? They want to make you feel good, they want to trigger good, happy memories, not make you hate other things and trigger bad/spiteful memories, because people don't usually buy most things when they are angry!
Komodo man, I did not make this thread with the intent of advertising. I came here to voice my opinion, have other vote and reply whether they agree or not. If you think that my first post and continued replies afterward were harsh vocally, that's because I firmly believe in what I say. However, my intention were not bad, and if it seemed that way, it perhaps overshadowed the inevitable truth that imo, parachute can be good and fun alternate mode for other people instead of relying on parachute.

Quote
A random example, take Nike, their adverts don't start with "Don't wear Adidas, you're weak if you wear Adidas, wear Nike, be hardcore warrior like us!" (Although that would probably be a pretty amusing advert lol)
Boy oh boy that made me think of this


You seem to love metaphors so much, so I will give you one, something I mentioned briefly before.

In speedruns there are many categories, so for example in Super Mario The Lost Levels. You have any%, and 100% runs. You have big Mario run, and you have small Mario runs. You can choose Luigi too, and he can do any of the mentioned categories as well. However, with Luigi, you can jump so much higher and longer, but with Mario you cannot. Luigi's physics makes it easier to maneuver but with Mario your acceleration and speed is tad better. Some says Luigi is too easy to learn, so people stick with Mario. There are many other speedrun games that are similar to this.

So when you think about no parachute, think about it like this. It is its own category and you can rope and master roping just asd you could with parachute, but AGAIN EXCLUDING parachute techniques.




Offline TheKomodo

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2019, 03:38 PM »
Entirely subjective and not documented in WA.

It's not subjective, and it is documented, because we have replays and testimonials of other players.

Also we have physics, science, psychology etc as well.

You just haven't bothered to look, study, or ask.


That is so wrong and cringe worthy man.

Explain how it is wrong?

At this point you are just arguing for the sake of arguing, i've already gave you sufficient enough evidence explaining why it's faster to learn with parachute, using ldet improves this. Use common sense.

Wow so communistic. It is not honorable, if you fall behind, that's your fault! Even I can fall incredible far behind.

It has nothing to do with communism.

You don't get to decide if it's honorable or not and write that as a factual statement for all mankind, sure, in your opinion, it's not honorable, which we already established.

As i've already explained it gets used in funners, there is entirely nothing "wrong" with giving each player the same amount of time to play their turn.

For example, what is honorable in one culture, may offend and disgust in another.

ZaR has some extremely talented ropers, and one of them is particular pain in the ass to pin down. So, are you saying that I need to practice roping with traditional settings before considering beating anyone else that exceeds my own current skills either if they are ZaR or not? Quite frankly, I never fought to be the very best, but to Improve myself. With ZaR I have, and so have everyone else in it and outside of it.

My quote wasn't about other people, it was about you.

So let's ignore other people right now because that was about you.

I don't need to reply to this because you haven't answered the question yet.

So you are saying that in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute? If that is the case, this topic will never end.

No, i'm saying you will improve faster by using parachute, rather than not using parachute.

At no point did I say "in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute"

For example, if someone spends 30 hours a week playing without parachute, versus someone playing 2 hours a week with parachute, the person playing 30 hours a week will more than likely improve faster.

But if that person playing 30 hours a week, were to play with parachute, they would generally improve faster over time, as i've already explained.


Komodo, I have seen impressive roping combined with high consistency in ZaR.

Yeah, I can quite confidently say probably from players who learned to rope before ZaR existed, and/or practises a lot with parachute as well.

I don't know any impressive ropers who learned purely by playing ZaR and no other roping schemes.

This, is purely opinionated though, so it's not that important.

However if I am wrong, and you can prove it, with actual evidence not just opinions, please do so, i'd be interested to see that.

It is a good thing you are acknowledging that no parachute requires more consistency.

I never acknowledged any such thing.

You would be the worlds worst lawyer because you can't even read things exactly as they are written.

Read it again:

Because you don't have that safety net from using the parachute, you may indeed be more cautious, and you won't push the boundaries as much as you would with the parachute, which will probably leave you being a consistent roper, but not so much an impressive roper that pushes the boundaries.

I would, perhaps say roping without parachute requires more patience(from falling, and having to wait to go again), but definitely not more consistency.

Worked out differently for me? Am I supposed to be in a tight spot here? Am I in trouble?

I just mean, you would probably have better luck sharing your passion, if you went about it in a more positive manner, is all.

Komodo man, I did not make this thread with the intent of advertising. I came here to voice my opinion,

Whether you realize it or not, you have been advertising things you are passionate about.

And you didn't just voice your opinion, you tried to belittle the views and practices of other people as well.

Boy oh boy that made me think of this

Lol, I remember that advert, I saw it some years back, someone showed me it I can't remember why now...

I hope you didn't show me that because you assumed I was saying nobody does it though, because that's why I said "pretty much all companies", and didn't say they all do it, I don't think you are, but if you did well just had to justify that.


In speedruns there are many categories, so for example in Super Mario The Lost Levels. You have any%, and 100% runs. You have big Mario run, and you have small Mario runs. You can choose Luigi too, and he can do any of the mentioned categories as well. However, with Luigi, you can jump so much higher and longer, but with Mario you cannot. Luigi's physics makes it easier to maneuver but with Mario your acceleration and speed is tad better. Some says Luigi is too easy to learn, so people stick with Mario. There are many other speedrun games that are similar to this.

That's completely different, because in your example, using different characters actually changes the physics of the game. When I used other games as examples, I said completing the game without using mushrooms etc, not a different character which has different abilities etc.

That would be like roping, with different physics, which doesn't happen. In roping, with or without parachute, everything is the same.

So no, I won't think about it like that, because that would be ignorant.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 03:39 PM by TheKomodo »

Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2019, 05:45 PM »
Quote
It's not subjective, and it is documented, because we have replays and testimonials of other players.

Also we have physics, science, psychology etc as well.

You just haven't bothered to look, study, or ask.

You are so narrowed minded and one sided it is unbelievable. So again, it is entirely subjective. Your opinion.


Quote
Explain how it is wrong?
It is wrong, it is more hand holding.

Quote
It has nothing to do with communism.

You don't get to decide if it's honorable or not and write that as a factual statement for all mankind, sure, in your opinion, it's not honorable, which we already established.

As i've already explained it gets used in funners, there is entirely nothing "wrong" with giving each player the same amount of time to play their turn.

For example, what is honorable in one culture, may offend and disgust in another.

You don't get to decide either whatever it is Komodo. It is more rewarding to rope without parachute. So if one player fails and doesn't match up with the other player's time and performance, that's their fault, let alone if they fail.

To fail is a normal human thing Komodo, it is important to allow people to be reminded of their mistakes. They become more aware of their faults and will likely try to avoid it. With chute, it can cloud their roping, while without, you will see clearly at the mistake performed.

Quote
My quote wasn't about other people, it was about you.

So let's ignore other people right now because that was about you.

I don't need to reply to this because you haven't answered the question yet.
I think my answer was pretty clear, unfortunately for you, facts keeps punching you.

Quote
No, i'm saying you will improve faster by using parachute, rather than not using parachute.

At no point did I say "in order to get better faster, instant repeat by parachute save is necessary in contrast to no parachute
Then you Komodo are deeply in the error. I am sorry for you.

Quote
For example, if someone spends 30 hours a week playing without parachute, versus someone playing 2 hours a week with parachute, the person playing 30 hours a week will more than likely improve faster.

But if that person playing 30 hours a week, were to play with parachute, they would generally improve faster over time, as i've already explained.
Are you proposing a test? You seem to come up with random numbers and ideas. You have no idea what you are talking about. You try act some knowledgeable person but you are just now spilling nonsense.

Quote
I would, perhaps say roping without parachute requires more patience(from falling, and having to wait to go again), but definitely not more consistency.
And more consistency ;)

Quote
I just mean, you would probably have better luck sharing your passion, if you went about it in a more positive manner, is all.
If you can't handle how I roll, then go in a corner and cry. Facts don't care about your feelings.

Quote
Whether you realize it or not, you have been advertising things you are passionate about.

And you didn't just voice your opinion, you tried to belittle the views and practices of other people as well.
Belittle the views and practices of other people? You are doing that here in this topic.  If you can't accept what I have to say, that's on you. I can accept and see where you are coming from, but if you can't you are lost.

Quote
That's completely different, because in your example, using different characters actually changes the physics of the game. When I used other games as examples, I said completing the game without using mushrooms etc, not a different character which has different abilities etc.

That would be like roping, with different physics, which doesn't happen. In roping, with or without parachute, everything is the same.

So no, I won't think about it like that, because that would be ignorant.
See? You can't even stand facts, and comparison! You just don't like it when other people flip the tables at you. That's low, and let alone egotistical of you. You belittle my views, you disrespect everything. So why should I care? I tried to explain that no parachute have its advantages, and is faster to master (imo). No matter how I put it, no matter how I place my words, you remain ignorant. The only thing there is left is a picture book for dummies.

SIGH.


Offline TheKomodo

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2019, 07:06 PM »
You are so narrowed minded and one sided it is unbelievable. So again, it is entirely subjective. Your opinion.

So instead of using history, things that actually happened, doing actual research, using replays(things that actually exist), talking to people and getting their testimonials to process your thoughts and beliefs, you are happy to just believe something because you like it like that and don't want to even check 1st?

You can call me narrow minded and one sided all you want, it still doesn't make it true lol.

It is wrong, it is more hand holding.

Lol, so, when asked to elaborate on your inaccurate accusations, you can't.

Ok, that's fine, just more reason not to believe anything you say because you are unable to come up with comprehensive arguements.

You don't get to decide either whatever it is Komodo.

You are the one trying to pass off personal beliefs as universal facts, not me.


It is more rewarding to rope without parachute.

There you go again trying to state opinions as facts, all you need to do is add "for me" at the end of that sentence.

Because, if you didn't know, the world doesn't evolve around you Kradie.


So if one player fails and doesn't match up with the other player's time and performance, that's their fault, let alone if they fail.

You are missing the point entirely.

It doesn't matter whose fault it is, we're talking about having fun, giving each player the same amount of time to rope.

You call me egotistical yet you are making this all about you how you personally feel about it, it doesn't matter if you don't like it or not lol, all I was saying is that it's fun for some people, I didn't expect you to bite so hard at this wow...

With chute, it can cloud their roping, while without, you will see clearly at the mistake performed.

So what you are saying is, you are unable to detect mistakes while using parachute, and because you don't understand that other people can, you think it doesn't happen at all lol?

That's what it sounds like you are saying and i've already explained, this is not an opinion, this is a fact:

When you lose control of rope, hit the wall, or the roof, or fail to hit spacebar in time, or press the wrong arrow keys, with or without parachute, you are aware of your mistake. Why? Because if you use parachute, you will either lose control of the worm completely, or the parachute will open, it's very simple.

Using parachute doesn't make people blind to mistakes, not using parachute doesn't change the physics of roping, it doesn't make mistakes happen that can't happen with parachute.

I think my answer was pretty clear, unfortunately for you, facts keeps punching you.

You dodged the question entirely, you still are.

Then you Komodo are deeply in the error. I am sorry for you.

You twist my words, then can't even understand what you done wrong lol.

This is hilarious ;D :D ;D

Are you proposing a test? You seem to come up with random numbers and ideas. You have no idea what you are talking about.

You can't even tell apart examples, theories, evidence, and facts/opinions.

You can't even realize when you are being a hypocrite.

You keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.


And more consistency ;)

Do you even know what consistency means?

I specifically didn't say what you are saying because being more consistent doesn't mean better.

You can be consistently slow, you can be consistently bad.

Using parachute or not makes no difference to how consistent a person can be, all I said was without using parachute you are more likely to become a consistent roper, rather than an impressive roper, because as you said, you will be more focused on trying not to fall, so you will rope safer/slower to make sure you don't chance losing your turn.

And what I was implying there was it is more likely to make you a slower, safer roper because the fear of falling and losing your turn doesn't make you push boundaries as much.

If you can't handle how I roll, then go in a corner and cry. Facts don't care about your feelings.

Are you really telling someone over the internet to go in a corner and cry?

Is this how desperate you've became? You can't even debate using any sort of useful information at all anymore?

You look like you are starting to take this very personally and starting to lose control man, keep calm, it's just a debate :)

Belittle the views and practices of other people? You are doing that here in this topic.  If you can't accept what I have to say, that's on you. I can accept and see where you are coming from, but if you can't you are lost.

I'm not belittling the views of other people, or their practices.

You are the one who created this topic calling other people weak, they need their hand held etc.

If you feel belittled because of the way i've defended against such ridiculous opinions that you've made, then you are acting insecure and in the moment lacking confidence.

See? You can't even stand facts, and comparison! You just don't like it when other people flip the tables at you.

I love facts, but the fact is, you are trying to use comparisons that are not as close in comparison as mine, and all I did was point that out, I didn't say I couldn't stand it, I just used simple common sense to show why your comparison is not as accurate as mine.

You use different characters in a mario game that have physical differences in the game world.

I used 1 character comparing getting through the game without any assets:

A worm - Mario
A rope = Mario jumping
A parachute = Mario items such as mushroom/flower/racoon etc
Changing the rope physics to be faster = Going Luigi (And this is where you became inaccurate because I assume we are talking about standard WA Roping, not manipulated gravity etc).

It's not my fault you are unable to comprehend these differences and how they compare with each other.

I tried to explain that no parachute have its advantages, and is faster to master (imo).

Well, now that you've admitted it's an opinion, and not stating it as a universal fact that all humans must agree with, that's fine :)

Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #99 on: August 15, 2019, 08:19 PM »
Quote
So instead of using history, things that actually happened, doing actual research, using replays(things that actually exist), talking to people and getting their testimonials to process your thoughts and beliefs, you are happy to just believe something because you like it like that and don't want to even check 1st?

You can call me narrow minded and one sided all you want, it still doesn't make it true lol.
ZaR have existed for over 4 years now. People are familiar with it. It have been in the league. It have been played many times. And I am saying people can improve faster without parachute.

Quote
You are the one trying to pass off personal beliefs as universal facts, not me.
Look who's talking.

Quote
There you go again trying to state opinions as facts, all you need to do is add "for me" at the end of that sentence.

Because, if you didn't know, the world doesn't evolve around you Kradie.
Just because you lack the necessary skill like, focus, consistency and patience, doesn't mean beginners and other people are like that.

Quote
It doesn't matter whose fault it is, we're talking about having fun, giving each player the same amount of time to rope.

You call me egotistical yet you are making this all about you how you personally feel about it, it doesn't matter if you don't like it or not lol, all I was saying is that it's fun for some people, I didn't expect you to bite so hard at this wow...
It does matter who fault it is. If you fail, that's on you. 


Quote
So what you are saying is, you are unable to detect mistakes while using parachute, and because you don't understand that other people can, you think it doesn't happen at all lol?

That's what it sounds like you are saying and i've already explained, this is not an opinion, this is a fact:

When you lose control of rope, hit the wall, or the roof, or fail to hit spacebar in time, or press the wrong arrow keys, with or without parachute, you are aware of your mistake. Why? Because if you use parachute, you will either lose control of the worm completely, or the parachute will open, it's very simple.

Using parachute doesn't make people blind to mistakes, not using parachute doesn't change the physics of roping, it doesn't make mistakes happen that can't happen with parachute.
Continuous rinse and repeat makes the mind numb and blind to mistakes because it all happens quickly. Without parachute, it is easier to review the mistakes because it have showed an error in your turn.

Quote
You dodged the question entirely, you still are.
Nope. Give it up Komodo.

Quote
You twist my words, then can't even understand what you done wrong lol.

This is hilarious ;D :D ;D
I am happy you find entertainment in your ignorance ^^


Quote
You can't even tell apart examples, theories, evidence, and facts/opinions.

You can't even realize when you are being a hypocrite.

You keep digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself.
You throw around random numbers that doesn't prove anything. You are tall talk, no action.

Quote
Do you even know what consistency means?

I specifically didn't say what you are saying because being more consistent doesn't mean better.

You can be consistently slow, you can be consistently bad.

Using parachute or not makes no difference to how consistent a person can be, all I said was without using parachute you are more likely to become a consistent roper, rather than an impressive roper, because as you said, you will be more focused on trying not to fall, so you will rope safer/slower to make sure you don't chance losing your turn.

And what I was implying there was it is more likely to make you a slower, safer roper because the fear of falling and losing your turn doesn't make you push boundaries as much.
Yep, and you can be a impressive roper and have great consistency with INCREDIBLE SPEED. Because the mind have adapted. People are fearless without parachute, it is rewarding, and pride. They fight for it. Showing that they aren't dependent on a pillow to land on.

Quote
Are you really telling someone over the internet to go in a corner and cry?

Is this how desperate you've became? You can't even debate using any sort of useful information at all anymore?

You look like you are starting to take this very personally and starting to lose control man, keep calm, it's just a debate :)

I am pretty calm about this. Did you assume I was desperate? I have used many useful information, but you are throwing them out because it doesn't fit your deluded narrative.

Quote
I'm not belittling the views of other people, or their practices.

You are the one who created this topic calling other people weak, they need their hand held etc.

If you feel belittled because of the way i've defended against such ridiculous opinions that you've made, then you are acting insecure and in the moment lacking confidence.
Why would you advocate for these people? They haven't even complained. So you are assuming. I am not feeling insecure, and lacking confidence. In fact, quite the opposite!


Quote
Well, now that you've admitted it's an opinion, and not stating it as a universal fact that all humans must agree with, that's fine :)
Rest assured, your input here are purely opinion based. While mine are opinion, but facts too. You do gain more knowledge, you do rope better, you do see your mistakes more often, you do learn faster.

It is a pity you denounce the speedrunning comparison, and no parachute as its own category. It just shows how deluded you are. It's crazy.

I never met anyone in my life this incredible stubborn. It behooves you to stop impugning irrationally, and instead try ameliorate the situation.When someone disagree with you, you go out of your way to make it as facts. Komodo is right, REGARDLESS.

Btw, how was your date?

« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 08:22 PM by Kradie »

Offline j0e

  • Sr. Member
  • ****

  • Canada Canada
  • Posts: 371
    • View Profile
Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #100 on: August 15, 2019, 10:30 PM »
Practically speaking, consistency means to some extent you're sacrificing risk and speed in favor of known, easily repeatable rope trajectories and angles. WA has a nearly unlimited skill ceiling because as the the rope gets shorter, you get more speed, to the point where it becomes imperceptible and impossible to consistently operate within those margins. It's possible to rope just as fast in zar, but people don't, because if you miss that wall-hugging pump outlaw it's 70 damage. You badmouth recklessness and praise discipline and consistency (its opposites (in this context- don't quote the dictionary)), but refuse to acknowledge the practical contradiction involved in producing "incredible speed". You aren't arguing in good faith. Komo has won this argument half a dozen times already with facts, common sense and logic while you rely on schoolyard bullshit like "I know you are but what am I?" Zar could be a superior league scheme but it reduces the role of the rope to utilitarian A to B transportation.

Just watch daina rope .. she never falls, but aside from her very admirable consistency her roping is boring and unimpressive. She takes no risks, always long ropes etc. That rope style often results in the fastest ttrr time, but it doesn't leave you flabbergasted asking yourself how that roping is even humanly possible like you do when Mablak is on his game; she makes it look easy. Yet she'd pretty much be the ultimate zar roper.

Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #101 on: August 15, 2019, 10:56 PM »
Quote
WA has a nearly unlimited skill ceiling because as the the rope gets shorter, you get more speed, to the point where it becomes imperceptible and impossible to consistently operate within those margins. It's possible to rope just as fast in zar, but people don't, because if you miss that wall-hugging pump outlaw it's 70 damage.
Speed is absolutely necessary in ZaR, people gain this with short rapid burst of rope, or long extensions. It is a matter of preference and how that person have mastered the required preference. E.g, I do extreme smooth and fast scrolls in w2w in zar, because It works best for me. While some chooses different approach, a more safer way. If I am on right bottom side, I need to be extremely fast to do a push up and commit to rapid scrolls/dragon if need be. Because of this, I put myself at risk, I need to focus with my eye on visual cues, how to do a clean push from the bottom and all the way to the top. This can prove tricky at times depending on how tight the area is.

Quote
ou aren't arguing in good faith. Komo has won this argument half a dozen times already with facts, common sense and logic while you rely on schoolyard bullshit like "I know you are but what am I?" Zar could be a superior league scheme but it reduces the role of the rope to utilitarian A to B transportation.
I am not arguing, this is not a schoolyard, we all are having a debate. I have presented my opinions, my thoughts, my belief, and even dared to call them as facts, because I firmly believe in them based on experience with no parachute and with others.  It is good to have this discussion, it have never been talked about before. It is challenging for people to try something new, I know believe me.

Offline TheKomodo

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #102 on: August 16, 2019, 03:41 AM »
@Kradie

There is nothing you have wrote there that I haven't already responded to in one way or another.

I joined this discussion because you were stating things as facts when they were simply personal beliefs, and at some point or another in this thread, you have wrote those things as opinions by adding stuff like "(imo)", and "I think" etc.

Even though i'm sure you will never comprehend most of what i've wrote in this thread, or even give it a second thought, there is nothing for me to add here anymore, it would just be going round in circles, so just like using parachute saves time, i'm gonna save time by not discussing this anymore.

Thanks for the debate though, anyone who can be bothered reading this thread can decide for themselves what to believe, and all I wanted was to provide useful information for other people, rather than only having the things you wrote as a guide, so that they can judge for themselves.

And yes, the date went well thanks, we're together now, we have a date night tonight, so I better get some sleep  :-*

Practically speaking, consistency means to some extent you're sacrificing risk and speed in favor of known, easily repeatable rope trajectories and angles.

I wouldn't bother man, he's never going to comprehend it.  ::)



Offline Kradie

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #103 on: August 16, 2019, 07:29 AM »
I was wondering when this thread was coming to an end. I am glad to it finally ending now. Now that Komodo's ego have finally stopped burning. Ego and ignorance can cloud one's comprehension of reality, but do I fault him? Do I regret having this discussion with him? Hard to say, and no, I do not regret. Here is why. There are can be many factor of a man's delusion and unwillingness to see, and accept others point of view, and perhaps facts, but Komodo shuns it away with arrogance and giggles like it is some kind of sandbox for children. I do not regret having this debate, but It was exhausting. But the info provided by both parties can prove useful for the curios reader, so that person that read can make their own decisions.

No problem Mr Komodo. I am glad you had your fun.

Offline Sensei

Re: Parachute in Rope Based Schemes
« Reply #104 on: August 16, 2019, 10:14 AM »
Oh wow, this shit is still going on.
You two really belong to transcendental part of community.
Collection of twitch interviews, league clanners and CWT matches.



Click to join Worms Armageddon community on Discord Server!