Double Standard

[Albus]

Some people is calling me cheater and implying that I'm dishonest because I used wkWormOrder (https://worms2d.info/WkWormOrder) against Dario. Here at TUS, I played two games against him using this module:

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-228588/msg281661/?topicseen#new

https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-228585/msg281658/?topicseen#new



At the time I used this module when I played against him, there was no express rule prohibiting its use. Later, in TUS, a rule was created saying that if you use this module, you need to inform your opponent that you are using it (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/using-wormkit-modules-in-leagues-33659/). Dario, as he himself said, knew that I was using the module, however he said that he supposedly didn't know that the module allowed me to know the sequence of my own team.

I have attached below the conversation log of two matches where I played against him and used the module. In the first log file, you can see that I had already alerted him that I have the module installed and asked for authorization to use it against him. In the second log file he says he doesn't trust me anymore because I hadn't alerted him to a particular function of this module that he supposedly didn't know.

 2021-09-14 00.41.18 - #AnythingGoes - TUS or ONL league n1_ - Albus.log (2.85 kB - downloaded 20 times.)

 2021-09-21 17.21.09 - #AnythingGoes - Albus - Albus.log (2.49 kB - downloaded 20 times.)


In these log files, you can see that he said the following:

[2021-09-21 17.23.48] [NNNxDario] you played ONL with me without notifying me of that already

His behavior was very strange because he already started accusing me apparently without any proof.

I didn't act in bad faith. The module was discussed publicly in several places¹ and Dario knew the existence of the module (he participated in some discussions about the module) and I assumed he knew about all the module's features. There was no rule prohibiting the use of the module and it still doesn't exist until today, and that's why i use it.

I want to open a short parenthesis here. I played ONL league for many years (http://www.normalnonoobs.com/userinfo/Albus), always looking to bring new players into the league². I also participated a lot in their forum (http://www.normalnonoobs.com/forum/), sharing guides and information to help new players. I suggested the creation of the ONL discord channel which also helped a lot in the league's activity. I don't understand why he thinks I, a person so committed to their league for years, tried to deceive him and why he thinks I'm a liar. In fact, I think that this attitude he had with me is very unfair, thinking these things about me and even divulging what happened between us to other people. If he thought what happened was unfair, he could ask me not to use it again, and delete the ONL games (since he's an admin there) or ask MI to delete the TUS games. But for some reason, it was important for him to talk about that in public.

Many people use programs to count weapons used by the enemy, rulers to measure kamikaze distance and get maximum damage, wkRemapKeys to make the mechanics of some schemes easier, and none of this is prohibited. What I did, compared to these things, is infinitely irrelevant.

Some things that for others are cheating, Dario does, but I don't see anyone addressing him in the same way. Why just against me these accusations?











The function to zoom in on the game, using the Windows Magnifying Glass (which chicken says it's cheating - https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/wormkit-modules/(module-idea)-option-to-zoom-or-change-resolution-during-the-game-33605), who discovered and spoke to me for the first time was Dario. I didn't even know this was possible. Now I ask: the players, including him, say everything they use to the opponent (visual aids etc.)?

I think there is some persecution from certain people against me. See what chicken said about transparent water:



I had given him some names of people who used transparent water (and maybe still do), however, he showed no interest in calling these people cheaters in public (or at least talk about it in public) the way he does to me. So, apparently, it looks like this persecution against me is malicious. By the way, if he asked me not to play using the module I wouldn't use it. This slander campaign against me was not necessary either.


1 ONL discord channel: https://discord.gg/dmzqepYxSp Thread: https://discord.com/channels/797536272163012609/887665476833001522/887665479378960414
Sensei discord channel: https://discord.gg/UBRBhk6 Threads: https://discord.com/channels/416225356706480128/882925504288665631/882925507388268565 and https://discord.com/channels/416225356706480128/883292008003809300/883292010210029618
NNN forumn: http://www.normalnonoobs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1748
TUS forum: https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/wormkit-modules/wkwormorder-v-1-1-0-released-33536/

2 ONL news from 2020. Oct. 1:

[Sbaffo]

This is the kind of stuff tus forums needs right now, keep it going ladss

[Lupastic]

This is the kind of stuff tus forums needs right now, keep it going ladss

agree :/ ..

[Albus]

This is the kind of stuff tus forums needs right now, keep it going ladss

agree :/ ..

Sorry. But I wanted to detail here all my opinion about it in order to prevent other people from creating bias towards me. If, after understanding everything that happened, the person concludes that I am a cheater, that is their right, but I want to detail here all my opinion about it and say what happened.

[Kradie]

It is a clown world my dear Albus, everyone labels everyone. I suggest you Ignore and move on.

Lyrics from ELO's 21st Century Man

One day you're a hero
Next day you're a clown
There's nothing that is in between
Now you're a 21st century man.

[Zalo the moler]

The way I see it, my friend, is that a 3rd party device is used to give you the subtle benefit that your enemy does not have. You speak of the benefit (knowing which worm is next), that could be fixed by
a) sticking to the same teams
b) setting up a pattern for all the newly created teams (A-Z, Z-A, number of letters in a worm's name, etc.)
c) putting numerals within your worms' names.

The main reason why people create "their own" teams, is because as the time passes by they are the ones who are most familiar with their order. Now you wish the team to be instantly known to you, while keeping it 100% unknown to your enemy. How would you feel if your enemy had Crate Spy lasting also during your turns "just so they do not strain their memory too much". You might say that it's different because the owner of the team is supposed to know his team anyway, therefore your tool doesn't make a difference, and yet here I am putting my piece of attention to my team, putting my piece of effort to track it, while this piece is not required on the opposite side of the battle that I am having.

I also have a negative view on the so called Crate finder, but I will not get into details. Physical rulers are a bit of a different story since our screen's edge is already one such a ruler and it's ineviable to prevent its use, since people have been using it for 23 years. You said that creating many teams and remembering them is unhealthy, but I am not sure as to why one should create this many teams. IMO it's okay if you have used it (since it shouldn't have affected the results of these past matches), but perhaps try to not use it anymore?

[Albus]

Like I said, you can have your own opinions about what happened (whether it's an advantage or not, and whether Dario was fair with me or not). But calling me a cheater in public is slander. In my opinion (this debate is very subjective) people do much worse things in the game that aren't banned. If you compare what I've done to these other advantages, it becomes infinitely irrelevant.

I've been saying publicly that I use this module¹ and I've been asking for rules to be created about the use of wkWormOrder and nobody does anything about it. So is using something that is not expressly prohibited a reason to slander me?

Many people say that wkRemapKeys can be considered cheating. But there is no rule prohibiting the use of wkRemapKeys. If I agree with these people, do I have the right to publicly attack specific people who use this and call them cheaters and dishonest? I think not and I never did that to anyone regarding any module/software avaible on worms2d.info. The most I can do is, in private, talk to this person, and say I don't like a certain thing, and ask them not to use it when they play with me. That's what Rafka recently asked to me. When he knew that I use visual aid in intermediate, he said that he don't consider it a fair practice and asked me not to use it when playing against him.


1 One of the countless times I've publicly said that I use the module:

[h3oCharles]

The way I see it, my friend, is that a 3rd party device is used to give you the subtle benefit that your enemy does not have. You speak of the benefit (knowing which worm is next), that could be fixed by
a) sticking to the same teams
b) setting up a pattern for all the newly created teams (A-Z, Z-A, number of letters in a worm's name, etc.)
c) putting numerals within your worms' names.

the ideal scenario is where you know your own rotation, but the enemy doesn't. these things are too obvious to figure out on the fly

[Albus]

Yesterday, in a conversation in discord with Zorro, he explained to me the reasons for not liking the module. I made a commitment to him not to use the module when playing against him, just as I made a commitment not to use visual aid against Rafka, as he recently said he thinks it's unfair and prefers me not to use visual aids. Dario could have done the same, but he preferred to say he didn't believe me and make public what happened between us.

However, I repeat the importance of explicit rules regarding not only wkWormOrder but other things that, in my view, offer much greater advantages in the game and there is nothing prohibiting it, and people do it with a clear conscience. It is not a question of entering into the merits of being something that can be detected or not, but of elaborating rules that at least create moral duty in people.

[Korydex]

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/using-wormkit-modules-in-leagues-33659/ /thread

[Kaleu]

I just can't understand how can one be so selective to determine what is cheat or not.
I completely agree with you when you compare rulers, magnifiecent glass etc with knowing your own worm order, that shit is irrelevant.
It's like a private club or something? "We are the supreme entities that determine what is cheating and what is not." 

[rU`]

So much cheating - tools involved. I would disallow any kind of module, no room to even discuss about it. That wkorder thing is cheating af.

Kaos Normal is mostly all I have fun with nowadays, play with randoms usually and I get a new name every time I join wormnet. I became a random too!

[Albus]

That wkorder thing is cheating af.

pff... it's not cheating if both players agree (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/using-wormkit-modules-in-leagues-33659/).

[Sbaffo]

[TheWalrus]

haha omg i choked on my food and almost fell off my chair lol