The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon

This is intended for the TUS Community who enjoys the rope aspect of worms & nothing else.

I know this has probably been suggested before, but... I'll give it another shot. Here me out:

A lot of us, both old schoolers and new schoolers, like playing just rope schemes of this game and at the same time, staying competitive with it. Ground schemes aren't for everyone, even if you try learning them. Some people just simply like playing rope games, and I'm one of those guys. I understand that TUS Single & Clanner games you have to play other players/teams picks, which is 100% understandable and I know what I'm getting into when I choose to play somebody.

So what I'm wondering and maybe suggesting is that maybe we can start a Ropers only league, kinda like how it used to be when this game was first released when #RopersHeaven was what #AnythingGoes is now a days. I wouldn't even mind being in charge of the league. I could take care of everything if need be. What this league could consist of is pure fun (obviously worms and TUS is all about fun in general but players like being competitive) but at the same time, it could still have a rank system etc. There would be no game limit caps on players (depending on how many are involved), there would be no prize pool for winning a season (who cares about that anyways), and it would strictly be Roper/TTRR/WxW. No shoppers or anything. No ground schemes, just the roping aspect of the game. I feel like certain players would enjoy this and maybe some new people.

I understand TRL is something of TUS, but it's rotated out every other season or something, I could be wrong. But... it should just be there in general. Many players reach their game limit on TUS Singles and can't play each other for like 2 months sometimes... so maybe just having a rope only league, players could just keep playing each other with no game cap, nothing but pure fun and getting their rope on, girl.

Idk, just an idea... all I see is people advertising in #AG for "TEL ne1" when it could be "TRL ne1" - Only seems fair. But if it can't happen, it can't happen. Just thought I'd put it out there. Like I stated, I don't mind being in charge or moderating the league. I'm sure we could get at least a dozen of people who would be interested in it.

edit: It's almost pointless playing TUS Singles against certain people once you reach a game cap with people that like playing you in schemes (for this instance, rope ones) where you can earn the highest amount of points possible off a win.... now it's like... okay you play someone just for your "TUS FIX" of getting a game in of a scheme that you like but you win what, 10 points because they aren't ropers? Than you lose a scheme that you hate, cause your opponent picks a ground scheme, you lose 35-40 points, on a scheme you barely play? It just makes no sense, I don't mind it it's just that I feel a rope only league for people who like roping would be very cool. There's no reason to have TRL or whatever it was called on a rotation for every season, just have it there 24/7 so people can just play wxw/ttrr/roper for fun but at the same time keep it competitive and have a standings system/rank etc but just have it be all about the fun and glory.

Cheers,

biscuits

Read.

We had TRL as TUS Roper League only but it was ruined when Rotated league take over it..
I support a roper only league (rope schemes in general) and a ground only league too, or even a league for every scheme seems a lot reasonable.

ROPER/TTRR league

WxW sucks.

:P

Quote from: AduN on March 16, 2016, 12:17 AM
ROPER/TTRR league

WxW sucks.

:P

I hear you on that AduN. I enjoy WxW, so I can't really comment on that and I'm sure some people who do know/like roping would prefer WxW over a TTRR as they find TTRR a little on the difficult side of things, lol. But I think having all 3 schemes that are rope related would be very good. So one person picks a TTRR, the other picks WxW and vice versa :P

after reading this i wished hitler came back xD ( u wont understand this joke but its none and i dont mind ) ^^

>  No shoppers
hmm @ a new league not hunting for activity

idk, gl

Who are you biscuits? What was your previous names? You just appeared here like 1-2 months ago?

The problem with your idea is availability and activity.

You complain about the point system/games limit in TuS Singles, in a way that might suggest it's too unfair/amateur for you.

However, even with a Roper League you are gonna be in the exact same situation, it's not the League you have to blame, it's the fact there aren't enough good players on at all hours of the day.

To this day the ONLY event I would consider professional is the EA Championship thing, because they are forced to play every other player an equal amount of times.

Unless you can make this happen, it's a waste of time and you will only end up more frustrated because it failed.

theChipmunk - You would have noticed that if you looked at my TUS Profile m8  :P lol

And it's more-so about just having the league be fun, regardless of how many players there be, even if there are like a dozen max... some people just dislike ground schemes so I thought it would be a nice move to make not necessarily a league but just a ranked/standings based "group" if you wanna call it of ropers who like competing against each other... for points and a rank system, I don't know. Doesn't have to happen I just thought it'd be cool.

I don't see where availability/activity would be an issue though. Clanners still go around... and it's what like 3 clans that play now adays? That being the clan I'm in (420, hell... it's only dibz and myself playing right now cause sbaffo is inactive), TdC and cFc... I see no other clans playing, maybe l3x here and there... so... if clanners still go down... why can't this go down? I don't see why availability/activity would cause problems. The group/league would be there, if people don't play, they don't play... if they do they do... but it's there for the luxury of it.. well.. being there, lol. There's been many occasions where at least 5-6 ropers are in #AG but we can't play each other because we are max'd out on games in TUS Singles... when I know for a fact we would love to wxw/ttrr/roper or something. That's why I stated about not having a game limit cap, just having it be a fun league/group. Idk.

And I'm not complaining about the point system in TUS Singles. In fact I'm not complaining about anything. I just think it's retarded that you lose X amount of points on a scheme that you don't even play and players earn like 7-10 points on schemes they like and prefer over people that don't like it, it's almost like a waste of time playing the TUS game. lol.

Anyways, this thread isn't about about point systems, just seeing if the dream is alive for the ropers that are still around, lol. yeah, that's my 2 cents :P

From MonkeyIslands perspective, there is no point creating a Roper League if it isn't going to be active enough, which I understand and agree with.

That being said, MonkeyIsland kills activity at the same time by putting restrictions where they aren't needed, case in point, game limits.

It's funny because MonkeyIsland claims game limits are in place to stop people noob bashing other people, but it's silly because noob bashing will always exist with or without game limits, I could easily beat XanKriegor 15-0 in Roper, then go beat some noob 15-0 in Roper, then beat some other noob 15-0, then some other noob, then another noob, then other noobs.. You get the point?

TuS Singles/Clanners is a joke anyway with cheaters, people who alias/imposter, ridiculous free wins, avoiders, poor decisions sometimes being made in complaints, no overall reset etc...

Don't get me wrong, I like MI and have a great deal of respect for him, he's done me a few favours in the past, but the way he runs this website keeps driving people away.

Edit: Sorry, hard night at work I meant to say, the way he runs this website AT TIMES keeps driving people away, generally he's the best i've ever saw.

Tried to start this awhile back with the same similar idea https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/b2r/
Got inactive and abandoned it. Breeze also coded a basic rope league there not sure if it still works.

Nah, Komito, editing will not make that post nicer haha :)
We all would like to see the list of ppl who left TUS cause MI did a bad job?

Mods here are doing lot more than they should, imho.
Only question is how much sanity they have left, to keep running this freakshow.

well.... things becoming inactive and abandoning them is why something... fails... lol.... at least keep it stay in times of no one playing. if it's always there, people will eventually find out about it. I wouldn't even care if I'm playing the same person 20 times in a row, it's for fun anyways lol.

I just think that people who come online to play warmers (which are retarded cause you can warmup by just roping a rope race, roper or wxw) are wasting their time doing that and getting noobies in their games half the time or no one joining. It's like trying to get a rope game going and you have 3-4 people join your game, team in and light up right away with no idea what's going on. At least with a rope league, or group, even with a few amount of players in it, it would still be organized and available for those who know what their doing to get some games in that they enjoy the most with this game.

Idk. Who cares about the activity of it all. Just make it present and there so it gives people a chance and some hope. Just cause something isn't being played non stop doesn't mean it shouldn't exist.

If everyone here had his league, i think we deserve our league. TUS has gotten split in more leagues, so why shouldn't we try it?

Also i'm still waiting TUS to make a league system finder.

I agree but only if Ropers Only League has Hysteria... Im a roper so my point is valid and I want hysteria in the roper league !

Quote from: Sensei on March 16, 2016, 05:49 AM
We all would like to see the list of ppl who left TUS cause MI did a bad job?

I never said he did or does a bad job, if you are going to quote me at least use the exact words I used please.

Many players have became inactive for various reasons, TuS has became stale and dull to them, same sh*t different day.

I've been around this game playing leagues for most of my life, i've became friends with hundreds of people and we talk about history, leagues, schemes very often, I spectate games and pay attention to what people say regarding their feelings for this league compared to others.

You don't need a list, you need experience, and with time/curiosity comes knowledge.

I still think that majority of ppl who quit worms are 30+ yr old guys that no longer have time or desire to compete here. None of the additions would stop ppl leaving.

Tus have it's ways to attract more wormers, and it's been like that since 2008. New members still appear on daily basis.

MI and the guys are probably tired of non-stop "provocations" to add new stuff. And for what?!? That rope league is gonna last 1-2 months and then someone will make a thread to bring things the way they were before. Running in circles imo.

---> IMO!

TRL would be open if it was popular enough. TRL #25 was WxW and only 110 games was played (no playoffs). Roper or TTRR could do better though. Time for TRL TTRR?

Maybe it should be possible to play for overall rating after a player has reached the season limit with someone (like 15 extra games for overall rating). You wouldn't gain/lose any points for season rating from the extra games.

I think a TRL ZaR season would be cool, it's a fast-paced roping scheme that is not already in tus classic (so shouldn't suffer as TRL wxw did with players agreeing to report for Tus or TRL depending on who the winner is).

I would be prepared to sponsor it with a money prize for the winner (maybe $50 or so, unless anyone else wants to chip in). But this offer is for ZaR season only :)

Time to time people forget that the TUS league was not my idea. Many of its rules are the community's decision which formed over time. The same goes for the 15 games limit. The objections for 15 games limit are valid. But the abuse probability of not having one is much higher.

Having a rope-based league is not bad, but for it to work I must disable Classic league. Otherwise a portion of Classic league players may move to Roper-league. Also having a rope-based league demands a ground-based league as well. Which brings up the idea, we could disable Classic league and start two separate leagues instead?

Another idea is to host a rope-based league with TRL. (yes TRL supports multi-schemes per season)

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on March 16, 2016, 09:34 AM
Time to time people forget that the TUS league was not my idea. Many of its rules are the community's decision which formed over time. The same goes for the 15 games limit. The objections for 15 games limit are valid. But the abuse probability of not having one is much higher.

Having a rope-based league is not bad, but for it to work I must disable Classic league. Otherwise a portion of Classic league players may move to Roper-league. Also having a rope-based league demands a ground-based league as well. Which brings up the idea, we could disable Classic league and start two separate leagues instead?

Another idea is to host a rope-based league with TRL. (yes TRL supports multi-schemes per season)

Well I don't think getting rid of classic league would be a good idea, that's kind of what is keeping worms alive, lol. Dividing everything into 2 separate leagues (rope and ground) would probably be a bad idea since this game isn't as active as it used to be, and it seems like their are more ground players around then ropers these days, hence why I suggested a small league/group for us ropers lol.

I think the TRL route would be a good move MI, with TTRR/Roper/WxW as the 3 schemes to pick from.

Really, you've got to laugh at this...

In the space of 2 hours, 5 different people have replied with 5 different ideas.

It's nice people are creative and innovative but I mean come on...

Wouldn't it be better to simplify TuS instead of this charade?

Reset EVERYTHING, watch the acvitity ;)

Quote from: Senator on March 16, 2016, 08:56 AM
TRL would be open if it was popular enough. TRL #25 was WxW and only 110 games was played (no playoffs). Roper or TTRR could do better though. Time for TRL TTRR?

Maybe it should be possible to play for overall rating after a player has reached the season limit with someone (like 15 extra games for overall rating). You wouldn't gain/lose any points for season rating from the extra games.

That's actually a really smart idea Senator. Just play for overall rating and not for season points, kinda like a funner but you're at least getting something out of it and not losing much. But what my idea of TRL is.... is that your not subjected to playing just the 1 rope based scheme for that season... you can pick from all 3, adds more diversity to it. Doesn't make it as stale.

Quote from: Komito on March 16, 2016, 09:52 AM
Really, you've got to laugh at this...

In the space of 2 hours, 5 different people have replied with 5 different ideas.

It's nice people are creative and innovative but I mean come on...

Wouldn't it be better to simplify TuS instead of this charade?

Reset EVERYTHING, watch the acvitity ;)

That would actually be pretty cool, lol... reset everything and make ground league and rope league? Haha, but I don't think that anyone would follow through with that m8. I could be wrong though. Maybe we should add a poll to this thread to see what decisions we can come too? As I said I don't mind being in charge of the league and I'm sure a few people wouldn't mind MOD'ing it.

If only there was a way to advertise TUS when new schoolers log into wormnet :P

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on March 16, 2016, 09:34 AM
Time to time people forget that the TUS league was not my idea. Many of its rules are the community's decision which formed over time. The same goes for the 15 games limit. The objections for 15 games limit are valid. But the abuse probability of not having one is much higher.

Having a rope-based league is not bad, but for it to work I must disable Classic league. Otherwise a portion of Classic league players may move to Roper-league. Also having a rope-based league demands a ground-based league as well. Which brings up the idea, we could disable Classic league and start two separate leagues instead?

Another idea is to host a rope-based league with TRL. (yes TRL supports multi-schemes per season)

It's not that biscuits' idea is bad, because it isn't. 

But at this point, TUS singles is at about 1/3 activity of what it was a few years ago.  This season is a good spike upward from recent seasons, but not nearly enough to necessitate a new league.  IMO this could only worked during seasons 20-30 or so when activity was at its' very highest.  Rope league would pull activity like biscuit's (he's played 250 games or so in classic) from an already activity challenged league.  I just want TUS to thrive and survive, when in reality we might have already seen it's half life.  Sustaining activity long term should be the league's biggest goal, and I think MI has that in mind when shutting down certain leagues. 

I think the best solution is support for a rope based TRL scheme, and let activity in the TRL season be proof for a bigger need of a rope only league.  Mi has always been fair in this aspect, prove to him a need exists, and he has been accommodating to that need.

I wouldn't mind an overall reset, but splitting tus into ground and rope would suck imo. The whole point of this league for me is that you have to develop skills in both. Activity will suffer too because it will be the same few players dominating each league, at least at the moment a new player can pick ground against a good roper, or vice versa.

Also with a TRL rope season, you have the problem of players coming to agreements with one reporting for TRL and the other for tus. So neither league is really being played properly a lot of the time.

If you want a seperate rope league you could at least make the schemes different from why is already in tus classic. For example, roper (zook only), big RR, wascar, ttrr with all worms counting, etc, Just change the rules a bit.

In short, keep tus classic the same please!

P.s my offer of money prize for ZaR TRL season still stands.

Separating league in 2 parts could go wrong.
You're not gonna divide ground and rope schemes, you're gonna divide players too.

Maybe there will be less butthurting and drama, but cmon.. Isn't that what we all looking forward to see on this site!? :)

Trl ttrr.

TuS is indeed the longest running main-wa-league based website for WA, many regard it as the most successful, but what makes it a success? Well that's up to each visiter.

For me it's the best WA website, but not the best league.

If you ask me, the 3 scheme leagues were better, and you could argue the Singles/Clanners were even more active back then, making them more successful.

There was less avoiding back then, maybe because serious players had enough spare time to practise 3 schemes, unlike now where there are 8, it's kinda overwhelming for most players, people can literally spend years to get good enough to compete with the best.

Roper / Elite / BnG - The 3 original main league schemes, the true classics.

Team17 / TTRR / WxW / Shopper / Hysteria - The following up main league schemes, kind of modern classics.

Do we really need 8 schemes? Personally speaking i'd love to go back to the original 3 schemes, I know that will likely never happen but it's pretty cool to have participated that way before.

Quote from: Komito on March 16, 2016, 12:24 PM
TuS is indeed the longest running main-wa-league based website for WA, many regard it as the most successful, but what makes it a success? Well that's up to each visiter.

For me it's the best WA website, but not the best league.

If you ask me, the 3 scheme leagues were better, and you could argue the Singles/Clanners were even more active back then, making them more successful.

There was less avoiding back then, maybe because serious players had enough spare time to practise 3 schemes, unlike now where there are 8, it's kinda overwhelming for most players, people can literally spend years to get good enough to compete with the best.

Roper / Elite / BnG - The 3 original main league schemes, the true classics.

Team17 / TTRR / WxW / Shopper / Hysteria - The following up main league schemes, kind of modern classics.

Do we really need 8 schemes? Personally speaking i'd love to go back to the original 3 schemes, I know that will likely never happen but it's pretty cool to have participated that way before.

Yeah Komito, I totally agree with that lol. 8 schemes is kind of crazy, but I guess it's all there by demand. Hell, Shopper is such a pointless scheme man, I honestly don't know how anyone enjoys playing that competitively. lol. I totally remember the olden golden days where BnG unanchored/anchored was very popular, roper and elite only. Shit, when I first got into W:A when it first came out I remember all I did was BnG but I wanted to get better at roping, so I did, after years, lol. But yeah, no other scheme was played really.

Quote from: TheWalrus on March 16, 2016, 11:42 AM

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on March 16, 2016, 09:34 AM
Time to time people forget that the TUS league was not my idea. Many of its rules are the community's decision which formed over time. The same goes for the 15 games limit. The objections for 15 games limit are valid. But the abuse probability of not having one is much higher.

Having a rope-based league is not bad, but for it to work I must disable Classic league. Otherwise a portion of Classic league players may move to Roper-league. Also having a rope-based league demands a ground-based league as well. Which brings up the idea, we could disable Classic league and start two separate leagues instead?

Another idea is to host a rope-based league with TRL. (yes TRL supports multi-schemes per season)

It's not that biscuits' idea is bad, because it isn't. 

But at this point, TUS singles is at about 1/3 activity of what it was a few years ago.  This season is a good spike upward from recent seasons, but not nearly enough to necessitate a new league.  IMO this could only worked during seasons 20-30 or so when activity was at its' very highest.  Rope league would pull activity like biscuit's (he's played 250 games or so in classic) from an already activity challenged league.  I just want TUS to thrive and survive, when in reality we might have already seen it's half life.  Sustaining activity long term should be the league's biggest goal, and I think MI has that in mind when shutting down certain leagues. 

I think the best solution is support for a rope based TRL scheme, and let activity in the TRL season be proof for a bigger need of a rope only league.  Mi has always been fair in this aspect, prove to him a need exists, and he has been accommodating to that need.

Thanks for the reply Walrus. Appreciate the backup on my idea being good. As far as TUS Classic league is concerned and clanners, I wouldn't be leaving Classic, it would just be nice to have an alternative rope league where I can just play rope games and not have to worry about my opponent picking a ground scheme. I'm sure others would feel the same way. I'm pretty active on this game as I came back, and just because I've played 250+ games doesn't mean anything, I'm trying to be an active member of the community and help keep the league alive by playing TUS. As you can see I randomly disappeared in Season 47 and 48 without even saying anything, but I hope to not do that again. And if that does indeed happen, I will let people know (not that anyone cares)

I hope something changes this time.. I would become active again for a rope based league.
I highly encourage a global reset and make a tribute page for "the best of the previous age", would be nice to start it fresh again since Random00 and Barman are logically unreachable with the actual activity.

Disable clasic league and open 2 new leagues:

Rope league :
Ttrr, roper, wxw, shoppa, Tower/big rr
Defaults league:
Elite, hysteria,  bng, team17 and aerial or normal

Quote from: Chelsea on March 16, 2016, 04:26 PM
Disable clasic league and open 2 new leagues:

Rope league :
Ttrr, roper, wxw, shoppa, Tower/big rr
Defaults league:
Elite, hysteria,  bng, team17 and aerial or normal

It is kind of a good idea... because the stats of people who only play rope schemes is going to be worse than if they just played rope games... cause they lose ground games, ya know? Same goes towards ground players who play rope games and lose them... cause it's not their thing...

Idk. We should put a poll up of what to do.

I support a ZaR league as well.

For the record, Team17 isn't a modern scheme.
It has widely Improved since Senator's update of the scheme.

Multiple leagues would divide people though.

its in my eyes a dumb idear =) cause players with special abilitys can chose their pick. i never void a game and if i think of elite and hyst or t17 its not the same not nearly.
most i enjoy elite and wxw . some pick bng thats nice too. what u are about is not tus =) ( worms ) a own rope league would nothen speak agaist but activity but if u try one OK
but dont change Tus its fine.

sumthen like Tel for ropers, i d not mind but if the regular Tus would become inacti than it d suck alot . tel is very inactiv too =(

Quote from: Kradie on March 16, 2016, 04:33 PM
I support a ZaR league as well.

For the record, Team17 isn't a modern scheme.
It has widely Improved since Senator's update of the scheme.

Multiple leagues would divide people though.

All of those in favor of a ZaR league, I don't think that would be necessary really. Leaving the rope league as TTRR/WxW/Roper/ZaR (instead of Shopper, but you can include Shopper as well just for total newbs) would be fine and just pick ZaR as your scheme choice vs your opponent. The only thing I would say is that leave Cave ZaR out of it.... just the default ZaR scheme would be nice to have included, you know... 2 island maps... 12s and no chute/zook only. It'd be a nice way to let opponents decide if they want to play somebody in a normal roper or a ZaR, or just choosing to play a TTRR/WxW. Definitely would be cool.

Would it be possible to have separate leagues where the top players from each compete against each other in playoffs? So 4 qualify from each.

1st v 4th
2nd v 3rd
3rd v 2nd
4th v 1st

Higher ranked gets 5th pick as normal. So we are still competing for one overall TUS crown.

Quote from: Chelsea on March 16, 2016, 04:26 PM
Defaults league:
Elite, hysteria,  bng, team17 and aerial or normal

Yes, we'll call it "League of Chelsea's favorite schemes."  While we are at it, we should add kaos as well. :)

As long as we are proposing leagues, I've got the best idea yet.  We have a main "A" league, classic, I propose a "B" league, with all schemes that start with a B!

BnG
Battle race
Boom race
Bungee race

if there were 100players for each i  d agree. if the top 10 of these or some of em are allrounders and d play regular tus aswell i d agree but i think how it is i do not agree . its good to have tel =) but a rope league for biscuit ??? WHAT THE f@#!

i say set trl wxw and than set trl ttrr and than set trl roper and bis ll have a nice time !

vesuvio please stop double posting. You can edit your post if it is in 1 minute period.

I still think we should set up a poll so we can all vote on something to be done. It seems like people actually want some kind of change. Although change isn't always a good thing..... you know the saying, if it ain't broke... don't fix it... but that's why I'm just seeing if a rope league can be added into the side of things so the TUS Classic scene stays how it already is but it just branches out for the ropers who still play... I wouldn't even mind offering to pay for a prize pool for the ropers like spleen mentioned, I'd help contribute with that.

I think it would be pretty neat and possibly keep some wormers to stick around... I know when I stopped playing in Season 47-48 (shit, I've been registered to TUS since 2009 and I first started being active playing games in I think Season 45?) it was mainly because I was tired of opponents not wanting to play rope schemes and always picking ground, or I wouldn't even get any points off beating someone in rope... But I also stopped playing due to inactivity with work, etc... which in April I will start to become less active as I have been this month of March, hence why I think a rope league that is just for fun and doesn't mean anything (point wise etc) is a great idea so people who can't play that much or don't have the time can just come on and still play a game or 2 competitively of a scheme they like.

ok MI  :D

Quote from: biscuits on March 16, 2016, 05:24 PM
I still think we should set up a poll so we can all vote on something to be done. It seems like people actually want some kind of change. Although change isn't always a good thing..... you know the saying, if it ain't broke... don't fix it... but that's why I'm just seeing if a rope league can be added into the side of things so the TUS Classic scene stays how it already is but it just branches out for the ropers who still play... I wouldn't even mind offering to pay for a prize pool for the ropers like spleen mentioned, I'd help contribute with that.

I agree, I would rather keep classic how it is. That is why if a roper league is set up I think the schemes should be slightly different to those already in tus classic, like ZaR, Wxw with health crates, big RR, etc. Just so that a) it doesn't sap activity from classic league, and b) doesn't create a situation where people are doing deals with each other to get higher ranking in whichever league they are prioritising. (Happens all the time in TEL, and happened in TRL wxw too, where people say "you report tus I report tel/trl"... it sucks imo).

Quote from: spleen17 on March 16, 2016, 05:35 PM

Quote from: biscuits on March 16, 2016, 05:24 PM
I still think we should set up a poll so we can all vote on something to be done. It seems like people actually want some kind of change. Although change isn't always a good thing..... you know the saying, if it ain't broke... don't fix it... but that's why I'm just seeing if a rope league can be added into the side of things so the TUS Classic scene stays how it already is but it just branches out for the ropers who still play... I wouldn't even mind offering to pay for a prize pool for the ropers like spleen mentioned, I'd help contribute with that.

I agree, I would rather keep classic how it is. That is why if a roper league is set up I think the schemes should be slightly different to those already in tus classic, like ZaR, Wxw with health crates, big RR, etc. Just so that a) it doesn't sap activity from classic league, and b) doesn't create a situation where people are doing deals with each other to get higher ranking in whichever league they are prioritising. (Happens all the time in TEL, and happened in TRL wxw too, where people say "you report tus I report tel/trl"... it sucks imo).

Totally agree with this. Keep the TUS Classic scene around, add the rope league with the following schemes allowed to be played: TTRR/WxW (agree on playing the WxW zook only or with full weapons), Roper, ZaR Roper (No Cave ZaR), and maybe Big RR? Remove shoppa from it and leave it in Classic.

Anyone like that idea?

Now this looks more like a personal taste league, remove shoppa to add this zar shit for money? No thanks, I don't like
profiteers.

Quote from: Kaleu on March 16, 2016, 06:13 PM
Now this looks more like a personal taste league, remove shoppa to add this zar shit for money? No thanks, I don't like
profiteers.

There's no reason for shoppa to be in the rope league since it's in Classic. It was just an idea. I'm asking for everyones opinion, which is why I think a poll should go up so we can see vote results. And money isn't even what this is about, spleen mentioned something about adding a prize pool if need be and I just backed him up saying I would help with that if people wanted that.

This is solely for the purpose of having fun man.

Quote from: Kaleu on March 16, 2016, 06:13 PM
Now this looks more like a personal taste league, remove shoppa to add this zar shit for money? No thanks, I don't like
profiteers.

Show some respect ;)

Anyhow, It's not necessary about prize money it's more about to encourage player engagement in partaking.
No one is profiting Kaleu, ZaR Roper is much more difficult than ordinary roper. Even I'm not pro at it. So I don't understand how I as a person could profit from it. But yes, having ZaR in a league would profit ZaR as a more recognized position.

Lol. Would be cool for zar to get it's trl season, but making it a classic scheme..? Are you guys on acid?

Quote from: Sensei on March 16, 2016, 06:58 PM
Lol. Would be cool for zar to get it's trl season, but making it a classic scheme..? Are you guys on acid?

When did anyone say that?

Didn't you and bisc discussing it 5 posts ago?

Quote from: Sensei on March 16, 2016, 07:12 PM
Didn't you and bisc discussing it 5 posts ago?

That is for the hypothetical new rope league, as I said I would rather tus classic remained the same :)

I do think the scheme has a lot of merit though, it's different tactically and actually less luck-based than roper in my opinion, but I'm not saying it should replace roper or anything.

Quote from: spleen17 on March 16, 2016, 07:25 PM

Quote from: Sensei on March 16, 2016, 07:12 PM
Didn't you and bisc discussing it 5 posts ago?

That is for the hypothetical new rope league, as I said I would rather tus classic remained the same :)

I do think the scheme has a lot of merit though, it's different tactically and actually less luck-based than roper in my opinion, but I'm not saying it should replace roper or anything.

Yeah. I'm totally with spleen on this one. TUS Classic should remain untouched. There's nothing wrong with it. The whole point of this thread and idea was to just branch out a rope league for ropers (not intended for ground players or people who are content already with Classic). Also it's for people who hit game limit caps in Classic/each season and can just go over to the rope league and play their games for fun. I think adding ZaR to the rope scene would be cool, it's definitely a nice scheme I like it a lot (Cave ZaR i don't care much for). But.. ZaR reminds me of worms 2 style ropers with 12 second turns, no parachute so if you mess up, you're done... and of course... zook only which makes attacks harder and not dropping a mine 0.4mm away from your opponents worms head :P Oh and of course, the lovely random mines :)

If you want a rope based league you pretty much have 2 almost identical schemes in the same league if you consider adding zar to it, makes no sense. But lets move on this topic, try a poll maybe?

Quote from: Kaleu on March 16, 2016, 03:30 PMsince Random00 and Barman are logically unreachable with the actual activity.

Random00 is unreachable but barman isn't:

(http://i.imgur.com/koBuBLs.jpg)

^^ Last Season.

Quote from: Chelsea on March 16, 2016, 04:26 PM
Rope league :
Ttrr, roper, wxw, shoppa, Tower/big rr

Shopper is not a Rope scheme!

@ZaR

I really like ZaR scheme, but imo it isn't League material.

IMO zar should be in classic league, as a variant of roper.  It's basically a clone of w2 roper rules with mines and grenade removed, dunno how much more classic you can get.  Why shouldn't a player be allowed to pick roper or zar?  The scheme points should get combined though between roper/zar, no adding a whole new category for it, that would upset the rope/nonrope balance.

Is it an ironic post? I hope so.

Maybe try make something similar to this - http://www.deadendcafe.net/rl/
And if it gets enough activity you could then ask to get it intergraded into TUS.

Quote from: TheWalrus on March 17, 2016, 04:04 AM
IMO zar should be in classic league, as a variant of roper.

Some years ago I would probably agree with you, but I wouldn't now.

TuS is diversified enough already, We have TuS Singles / TuS Classic / TuS Free League / TuS Elite / TuS Rotated League / Cups / Tournaments / Challenges / dS Tours / The BattleRace thing that you do / EAC, and maybe more?

This is a main reason why we see less activity overall, WA has about 30-200 players on at anytime of day, half of which you can bet they are AFK...

Back in the day, there were 3 schemes to play in Leagues, that was it, so ALL competitive players were contributing to this.

These days, we don't have more players, but we have more things to do, which splits people up, making it less active overall, or at least gives that impression...

Like I said we should be trying to make cutbacks, not add stuff, or it'll just keep getting worse, i've been saying this for years and i've been right.

Quote from: TheWalrus on March 17, 2016, 04:04 AM
It's basically a clone of w2 roper rules with mines and grenade removed, dunno how much more classic you can get.

I know I am nitpicking a bit, but it isn't basically a clone of w2Roper.

w2Roper had more fall damage, the choice of collect crate or not, different hp, you had parachute, you had other weapons, and not to mention different game physics, and maybe more I forgot?

ZaR Roper is the best Roper scheme i've played for like 10 years, but I still strongly believe it isn't League worthy.

Quote from: Komito on March 17, 2016, 12:51 AM

Quote from: Kaleu on March 16, 2016, 03:30 PMsince Random00 and Barman are logically unreachable with the actual activity.

Random00 is unreachable but barman isn't

Is he really unreachable?

Elite: Almog reached #1 recently but dropped back to #2
WxW: Sbaffo reached #1 recently but dropped back to #2
Roper: dibz is #1 atm, biscuits rised from 1400 to 2100 points in 70 games and is #9 now
TTRR: Sbaffo and dibz are fighting for #1

In Hysteria and T17 it might be a little harder to reach top 5 because top 10 is inactive. But they don't explain the 2000 points lead. Other players just haven't reached a top 5 position in as many schemes as Random00 ;)

Don't forget Walrus has went from nothing to #3 in BnG Overall in a matter of months. ;)

And yes, I believe he's unreachable due to the inactivity of the top 10-20 players in each scheme, and in general.

Sure, Sbaffo and dibz are pretty active but they don't have great statistics for other schemes.

Of the top 50 Overall players, less than 10 are actively playing, that's less than 20%

Do you really think it's possible for someone to reach Random00?

barman didn't, check out his win % in all schemes, ridiculously good, yet 2100+ points behind...

The longer TuS goes without an overall reset, the worse it's gonna get.

It's so incredibly frustrating and dull now, just save it to a Hall of Fame and reset it already, what on Earth have you got to lose???

Lets imagine this hell of a rush among wormers to beat the soul out of each other for the first place after The Big Reset :D

Quote from: Komito on March 17, 2016, 09:17 AM
Don't forget Walrus has went from nothing to #3 in BnG Overall in a matter of months. ;)

And yes, I believe he's unreachable due to the inactivity of the top 10-20 players in each scheme, and in general.

Sure, Sbaffo and dibz are pretty active but they don't have great statistics for other schemes.

Of the top 50 Overall players, less than 10 are actively playing, that's less than 20%

Do you really think it's possible for someone to reach Random00?

barman didn't, check out his win % in all schemes, ridiculously good, yet 2100+ points behind...

The longer TuS goes without an overall reset, the worse it's gonna get.

It's so incredibly frustrating and dull now, just save it to a Hall of Fame and reset it already, what on Earth have you got to lose???

In a way I kind of agree, but at the same time... players worked hard to achieve their overall points. Correct me if I'm wrong but... if you did a hard reset of everything wouldn't it take your overall pts back down to 0? I would probably cry if that happened :P jk.

Some people like signing into their snoopers through TUS login and seeing their nice rank they earned hehe. Not like it really matters or anything but yea.

Anyhow, seems like this thread has got a little out of line on the main topic... looks like a rope league won't happen.

With that being said... I think ZaR should maybe get added to the Classic rotation... it's a very nice scheme for 2 competitive decent players to go head to head in, it's almost like TTRR... don't fall and be consistent while maintaining speed. I understand you think it doesn't belong there Komito and I sorta agree but you gotta look where worms is now a days. As much as I would support your idea of going back to just 3 schemes or 4 schemes like it was in the golden days, that just won't happen unfortunately.

I miss the old days of worms man :(

Quote from: biscuits on March 17, 2016, 10:02 AM
In a way I kind of agree, but at the same time... players worked hard to achieve their overall points. Correct me if I'm wrong but... if you did a hard reset of everything wouldn't it take your overall pts back down to 0? I would probably cry if that happened :P jk.

Every time I have suggested this i've always said save the current league standings and statistics into a hall of fame or an archive that's easily visible to visitors.

TuS operates with an ELO rating/point system, in theory it's a good idea but it's an abomination for Worms(if it goes on for more than 2-3 years), i'll explain why.

ELO rating system stems from Chess, it's used in other things such as Major League Baseball, association football, etc.

If you understand how ELO rating works, skip the following spoiler:

Spoiler! View

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system

Ok, let's assume you know what ELO rating is and how it works.

It's perfect for Chess/Football etc because those things are official, they have official leagues that will last indefinitely, in Worms, TuS wasn't the 1st and I imagine it won't be the last.

The ranking for Chess/Football etc focus on ONE type of game/sport, unlike Worms which is more like the Olympics consisting of multiple game modes.

In Chess/Football etc, the games are organized much more efficiently, you don't get avoiding, you don't get inactivity, you get paid enough money to live on.

This is why resets/new leagues are healthy for Worms, everytime there is a new League with fresh rankings, there is a huge boost of activity and it's a fight for the tops spots for THAT specific era of players.

^^ I think this is what has kept this game alive, and TuS is doing the opposite...

Quote from: biscuits on March 17, 2016, 10:02 AMWith that being said... I think ZaR should maybe get added to the Classic rotation... it's a very nice scheme for 2 competitive decent players to go head to head in, it's almost like TTRR... don't fall and be consistent while maintaining speed. I understand you think it doesn't belong there Komito and I sorta agree but you gotta look where worms is now a days. As much as I would support your idea of going back to just 3 schemes or 4 schemes like it was in the golden days, that just won't happen unfortunately.

Fair enough, you have your image and I have mine :)

And also make a best standings of clans please based on the maximum points they reached. Cfc had elite rank, but now we lost about 2000 points (coz 1 loss = -70 points) coz we played not seriously (not always with good line-up) to keep clanners alive...

Same logic goes for singles.. if i were random00 i wouldnt play a single tus until i wouldnt reach my skills when i left the game unless that 2000 points could disappear quickly -> we will never really see 80% of top 20 players playing tus again or only with alias

Okay so this is my point exactly on why I wanted a rope league implemented into TUS.

I just played VoK 11 games in a row, mainly all Ropers, maybe 1 or 2 WxW's... I also use the TUS Analyzer before I play, but... still I think this point system is retarded.

I lost 6 games out of the 11, and I won 5.

VoK earns 337 points.
I earn 105 points (Not to mention all the points I lost and he barely lost).

How in the hell is that even fair? Makes absolutely no sense to me, it just baffles me. It's like your playing against someone who knows how to rope... but it's not their best scheme, but they are still capable of beating you... maybe thru luck or whatever it may be, some skill, still.... how is that close to being fair when you know that you can play someone and not lose many points but earn a shit load? While the other person has everything on the line knowing if they lose they are f*cked but if they win they get jack shit? Stupid. But it's whatever. Point systems so broken that I'm about to just resort to playing 2v2 or clanners only from now on.

I understand that my rank in roping is high... but it's still literally unfair in my eyes that somebody can look at your stats, play you with the knowledge of knowing if they lose they won't suffer from it, but if they win (cause they know they aren't the worst roper) they will get a good chunk of points. F*ck it.

Quote from: Komito on March 17, 2016, 09:17 AM
Do you really think it's possible for someone to reach Random00?

barman didn't, check out his win % in all schemes, ridiculously good, yet 2100+ points behind...

barman has actually quite weak stats in Hysteria. He is only 50th with 1560 points. Hysteria alone explains 700 points of the gap. In Roper, WxW and Shopper together he could easily get ~700 points more if he started playing now. For Elite and T17 he would need to work more and try to find players like daiNa and Almog...

Another example of why a rope league should be implemented or divide stuff up into ground/rope... can't even TUS someone because "i don't play ground" lol...

11:30:38 z0rk: tus ne1?
11:30:39 Dubas: joined the channel.
11:30:41 Dubas: has left WormNet (Joined Game).
11:30:49 biscuits: k z0rk

11:31:07 z0rk: you dont play ground
11:31:11 biscuits: if you play BnG i will
11:31:13 z0rk: I'm in a Game!
11:31:13 z0rk: is away: I'm in a Game!
11:31:25 z0rk: nah sorry ;)

The thing is biscuits, the all round league is exactly that, so punishes those who can only play specific schemes.

Vok being good at roper and being able to win high points off you is a sign of him being a good allrounder - he hasn't had to rely on picking/playing lots of ropers to be able to beat you and get the points.

Trust me, I suffer your pain as much as anyone!

It is fair from the point of view that in reality if you picked or even played a ground scheme you would get more points.

@Senator - Sorry when I said all schemes I meant combined, my bad, no one owns everything, not even Mablak or Random00.

Quote from: biscuits on March 17, 2016, 02:19 PM
I think this point system is retarded.I understand that my rank in roping is high...

Quote from: Ryan on March 17, 2016, 06:19 PM
The thing is biscuits, the all round league is exactly that, so punishes those who can only play specific schemes.

It is fair from the point of view that in reality if you picked or even played a ground scheme you would get more points.

No, it's not fair, in theory it could be, but because of how WA works, it never will be.

As i've said before, ELO Rating in theory is great, but it doesn't work for Worms Armageddon for 3 reasons:

1) Multiple schemes makes it unbalanced for various reasons, we can go into that if needed but for now i'll leave it.

2) Unbalanced # of games - Various contributing factors such as, WA has a handful of players, timezone differences, people avoiding, people who don't play anymore etc.

3) Unlevel playing field - In Chess, Football etc, all players compete with the same tools, with WA, technology differs from the rich to the poor, it's ridiculously unfair.


All this could be solved if MI/TuS staff would just reset TuS leagues every 3 years or something, it wouldn't be perfect but at least the statistics would be true to those eras of WA.

It would increase activity on this site if a reset did happen i'd immagine.

Quote from: Komito on March 17, 2016, 06:46 PM
@Senator - Sorry when I said all schemes I meant combined, my bad, no one owns everything, not even Mablak or Random00.

Random00 is 4th in BnG, 1st in Elite, 2nd in Hysteria, 4th in Roper, 1st in Shopper, 2nd in Team17, 8th in TTRR, 1st in WxW. Unlike barman, he has reached a high rating in all schemes and that's why he has such a big lead.

Sorry about off topic xD

Quote from: Senator on March 17, 2016, 08:07 PM
Random00 is 4th in BnG, 1st in Elite, 2nd in Hysteria, 4th in Roper, 1st in Shopper, 2nd in Team17, 8th in TTRR, 1st in WxW. Unlike barman, he has reached a high rating in all schemes and that's why he has such a big lead.

I never said that no one has good statistics, I said no one owns all schemes.

Random00 is good enough to play the system, there are many players who would ruin his stats if he were to play them, but that never happened because Random00 picked his games carefully, and he was lucky enough to do this when TuS Singles were very active.

If you really want a Ropers League Make your own here on TUS just like ive done with the battle race league https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/bfw-bfw-1v1v1v1v1v1-battlerace-league-season-2/

hmmm @ pizzaspam
how cheap

Quote from: Komito on March 17, 2016, 08:15 PM
Random00 is good enough to play the system, there are many players who would ruin his stats if he were to play them, but that never happened because Random00 picked his games carefully, and he was lucky enough to do this when TuS Singles were very active.

This is accurate, it's not a strike against him that he picked his games so carefully, probably is the only way to get so high in standings.  At least in BnG, barman avoided random00, who avoided komo save for 1 game ever?

QuoteI know I am nitpicking a bit, but it isn't basically a clone of w2Roper.

w2Roper had more fall damage, the choice of collect crate or not, different hp, you had parachute, you had other weapons, and not to mention different game physics, and maybe more I forgot?

ZaR Roper is the best Roper scheme i've played for like 10 years, but I still strongly believe it isn't League worthy.

ZaR is just an evolved form of previous Roper schemes in general though-

So how come ZaR isn't league worthy Komito? Why do you deem it not worthy?

Quote from: Kradie on March 16, 2016, 06:34 PM

Show some respect ;)

Anyhow, It's not necessary about prize money it's more about to encourage player engagement in partaking.
No one is profiting Kaleu, ZaR Roper is much more difficult than ordinary roper. Even I'm not pro at it. So I don't understand how I as a person could profit from it. But yes, having ZaR in a league would profit ZaR as a more recognized position.

You were never "pro" at roping in general to begin with.

Quote from: biscuits on March 18, 2016, 03:57 PM

Quote from: Kradie on March 16, 2016, 06:34 PM

Show some respect ;)

Anyhow, It's not necessary about prize money it's more about to encourage player engagement in partaking.
No one is profiting Kaleu, ZaR Roper is much more difficult than ordinary roper. Even I'm not pro at it. So I don't understand how I as a person could profit from it. But yes, having ZaR in a league would profit ZaR as a more recognized position.

You were never "pro" at roping in general to begin with.

Elaborate your assessment.

Quote from: Kradie on March 18, 2016, 03:28 PM
So how come ZaR isn't league worthy Komito? Why do you deem it not worthy?

The main reason is there is no chute.

Should have at least grenade because grenade gives possibility of attacks not possible because of crates, if you get the bounces right, should have mines as well for carefully planned fall damage attacks and piles/pushes, the fact ZaR only has zook takes out a fair bit of tactics.

I would prefer more than 12 seconds, but i'm ok with it.

ZaR is really fun to play, but for me it's like having a kickabout at the park with your mates as opposed to playing a serious match with proper rules/settings.

Quote from: Komito on March 18, 2016, 05:03 PM

Quote from: Kradie on March 18, 2016, 03:28 PM
So how come ZaR isn't league worthy Komito? Why do you deem it not worthy?

The main reason is there is no chute.

Should have at least grenade because grenade gives possibility of attacks not possible because of crates, if you get the bounces right, should have mines as well for carefully planned fall damage attacks and piles/pushes, the fact ZaR only has zook takes out a fair bit of tactics.

I would prefer more than 12 seconds, but i'm ok with it.

ZaR is really fun to play, but for me it's like having a kickabout at the park with your mates as opposed to playing a serious match with proper rules/settings.

I don't understand how any of this makes a difference, yes it's a hard scheme that doesn't tolerate mistakes (although both players are likely to make at least one or two), but it's still fair. Best player will win, more often than in roper if anything because crate luck is reduced.

If I sum changes suggested by me or other people that I ageee in a single measage.

- Leagues should be resetted after 50th Classic season (50 is a nice number and I think it will give MI enough time)
- Leagues should be stored in soms kind of "Hall of Fame"
- After reset each league always must be enabled simultaneously.
- Leagues should be resetted and put on Hall of Fame after each 20 seasons.
- Like voting for next TRL scheme, there should be a poll for Free League. Most voted 4 schenes should be replaced with least played 4 schemes.

Quote from: Triad on March 19, 2016, 02:04 PM
If I sum changes suggested by me or other people that I ageee in a single measage.

- Leagues should be resetted after 50th Classic season (50 is a nice number and I think it will give MI enough time)
- Leagues should be stored in soms kind of "Hall of Fame"
- After reset each league always must be enabled simultaneously.
- Leagues should be resetted and put on Hall of Fame after each 20 seasons.
- Like voting for next TRL scheme, there should be a poll for Free League. Most voted 4 schenes should be replaced with least played 4 schemes.

Good ideas, i agree with you