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March 28, 2024, 12:23 PM

Author Topic: Current status of the League  (Read 17444 times)

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Offline Ytrojan

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #225 on: September 23, 2018, 10:14 PM »
At this point, we need a promotion on an alternative media platform. If VidLii or BitChute can get loads of views on Worms Armageddon videos, then Worms Armageddon can have new players interested.


However, that's a big "IF". There's no guarantee, but it's the best we've got.
Imagine What a Buck Could Do!


I now declare a brand new league (and the successor to the failed Ultra League): WormsRF!


Offline Senator

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #226 on: October 03, 2018, 09:03 AM »
We will start a new season soon and the season length will be 2 months again. Just a fresh start to give people a signal to start playing. :D

I don't think we will remove or replace schemes but we could do something about the balance. No one plays all 10 or even 8 schemes evenly so that means a player can just ignore a whole scheme type (BnG & Hysteria for example) and still succeed in this league. We could put the schemes in 3-6 classes. Then ignoring a class would have some effect. I'll just leave a couple of examples here:
Spoiler! View

Old idea by KRD/ropa/Mablak/Auto ("what a true allrounder can do")

BnG/Hysteria
Elite/Intermediate
Team17/Shopper
Roper/WxW (<- Big RR?)
TTRR (<- Big RR?)

2 classes for rope/strategic/artillery

BnG/Fort
Hysteria/Aerial
Elite/Intermediate
Team17/Shopper
Roper/WxW (<- Big RR?)
TTRR (<- Big RR?)

1 class for each

BnG/Hysteria
Elite/Intermediate/Team17/Shopper
TTRR/Roper/WxW/Big RR
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 09:10 AM by Senator »

Offline Sensei

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #227 on: October 03, 2018, 11:02 AM »
We're not going much forward with these, but at least it's some kind of a moving so I'll participate in debate.

Would be cool if 1 clan could refuse some pick from their opponents. Let's say dt wanna pick rr against Pn. They decide to refuse it and play whatever next pick of dt would be. Ofc, every clan would have limited amount of available refuses to each clan per season. Let's say 7. If this could easily be implemented in TUS (maybe in reporting section as: opponent refused scheme: YES NO), why not.

Schemes for classic:
BnG
Elite
Aerial (bo3 with updated scheme, pls just put it in league already)
BigRR &/or RR
Shopper (with inf zook or just leave it out of any league ever again)
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 11:07 AM by Sensei »

Offline Mega`Adnan

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #228 on: October 03, 2018, 01:00 PM »
AdD BuNgEe ShOpPaH iN dA LiSt!i! AnD I CaN GuArAnTeE YoU DaT ThE AcTiViTy oF TuS WiLl Be InCrEaSeD!i!I



Adnan, you are Mega, not Micro and not even faint  :D So fight till the end please.

Offline TheKaren

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #229 on: October 03, 2018, 02:53 PM »
Last resort now man, how about shutting all Leagues down completely, and waiting a few months to see if there is any demand for a League?

I know some people will say, "But I want to play Leagues even if it's not very active".

To which I answer, what's the difference these days? The reason you play Leagues is for competitive serious gameplay, improving yourself, and bragging rights...

And these days, there is literally nothing to brag about is there? You can still play competitive games against the other players remaining in private, you still save replays and can show other people if you want to brag about beating someone, and you can still improve.

When a lot of people are having fun competing, eventually on their own accord they want to start competing seriously.

We've discussed every option, argued and debated every technique/system, and nothing has worked, try the Cartmanland technique, close it down and build up some hype or something for a while.

While the Leagues are shut down, try asking newer players to get involved, what kind of League they would like to see etc.

Honestly, the era of the Oldschooler schemes is over, by far.

Offline spleen17

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #230 on: October 03, 2018, 03:36 PM »
Why not let people host their own leagues, as with tournaments and cups?

Not all leagues will be successful but the best and most popular ones could get interesting.

Offline TheWalrus

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #231 on: October 03, 2018, 05:39 PM »
I like oldsock or chickens idea, maybe both of them, adding aerial and moleshopper

oh god i almost choked there saying that

Offline Kradie

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #232 on: October 03, 2018, 06:43 PM »
I once brought up the idea in a similar topic where there's a  two types of league ''Normal League'' & ''Pro League''
Where Normal League could consist of the following schemes: Intermediate, Mole, Hysteria and Big RR.
While the pro league could consist of these schemes: Elite, RR, BnG & ZaR.
Of course it could be rearranged ''Fast League'' Hysteria, Aerial, RR & ZaR.
''Passive League'' Normal, Elite, BnG & Big RR.

Also, TuS's site ergonomic is very outdated, and it requires a complete overhaul to appease modern visitors.
Global Wormin' - A Friendly Discord Worms Server
https://discord.gg/zvFwZuAKQB

Offline Sensei

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #233 on: October 03, 2018, 08:17 PM »
While the pro league could consist of these schemes: Elite, RR, BnG & ZaR.

Pro league containing a scheme with no chute, 0 sec mines and.. what, 12-13 sec for turn?
Not to mention roper hides and wind affecting turns when zook is only weapon you can use.
Might as well rename it to masochistic league.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 08:20 PM by Sensei »

Offline Kradie

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #234 on: October 03, 2018, 08:47 PM »
While the pro league could consist of these schemes: Elite, RR, BnG & ZaR.

Pro league containing a scheme with no chute, 0 sec mines and.. what, 12-13 sec for turn?
Not to mention roper hides and wind affecting turns when zook is only weapon you can use.
Might as well rename it to masochistic league.

I admit, I was a bit bias when I suggested ZaR. It can be replaced with another appropriate scheme.
Global Wormin' - A Friendly Discord Worms Server
https://discord.gg/zvFwZuAKQB

Offline sock

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #235 on: October 04, 2018, 12:23 AM »
 :)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 08:31 PM by oldsock »

Offline Chicken23

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #236 on: October 04, 2018, 06:43 PM »
i think reducing season length to 2 months and a change on the visual experience of browsing and navigating the site for first time users will improve things, MI has agreed to making it a bit more simply to see the most active and current league. It might be worth hiding TEL, rope league and all those other variations somewhere for historical data browsing and not to overwhelm us with so many links and places to go...

I like the idea of scheme classes, but i personally would only enforce them at a PO stage? And the POs could be very minimum at this stage due to active of only 4 playoff spots? Bo3 or Bo5 from the different 'classes'? Whatever those classes are is indeed up to debate and probably should be done in a separate topic.

I don't see an issue in including moleshopper and ariel into the mix personally, but i do understand the point of views of people saying its too many schemes to master, however it doesn't matter if you can't master them all surely? Because you make up your skills in another area, and as long as the playoffs have the right 'classes' you'll be ok knowing that if someone was the best ariel/hysteria player in POs, you've still got a chance to pick elite/inter, roper, or ttrr/bigrr if you know what i mean?

finding the right class groups won't be easy.. but lets worry about that in the POs and see if we get increased activity? even if POs are picking an approved scheme in order, and as long as the highest seed player has first choice, its still fair and the best allrounder should still win?
If an allrounder today means being pro in moleshop and ariel then so be it, they are the more active player and popular schemes on WA and PO seeds will be determined by your activity and skill level which should reflect the current state of wormnet right? The league should represent what people are playing in AG and people are still playing classic and people are playing newer schemes, so lets have an inclusive league of what represents today's wn. I've got no issues with someone who totally owns these new schemes being in POs because they deserve their place there for taking the time to learn and enjoy that scheme.

its just the same as 10 years ago, technical experts in one scheme like ryan and lordhound in rr, or komodo in bng could nearly get a 100% win, but thats why we've got rating schemes now to encourage allround activity. Imagine if mablak and random00 were active with all their allrounder schemes maxed out with elite rating, add a new scheme and they would need to train and learn it before seeing that rating increase, so a pro in moleshopper, at somepoint is going to start picking their weaker schemes if interested in points to be champion of wa.


thinking about this more, with 2 month seasons, 4 place POs and maybe 30 games to reach POs spot, highest points earn a PO spot. That would be enough to sustain a league and system perhaps for todays level of activity? Players like dibz, oldsock, csongi, sentator, etc could easily play enough games to have POs and be the season champion again and that might be enough to encourage old players to return, but newer players to take part, especially if schemes in that system included schemes they enjoyed. Look at the tournaments, they are still active and popular, WA isn't dying, its just evolving and we need a league that represents the interest of todays players, but new gen and classic.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2018, 06:57 PM by Chicken23 »

Offline TheWalrus

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #237 on: October 04, 2018, 07:35 PM »
i think reducing season length to 2 months and a change on the visual experience of browsing and navigating the site for first time users will improve things, MI has agreed to making it a bit more simply to see the most active and current league. It might be worth hiding TEL, rope league and all those other variations somewhere for historical data browsing and not to overwhelm us with so many links and places to go...

I like the idea of scheme classes, but i personally would only enforce them at a PO stage? And the POs could be very minimum at this stage due to active of only 4 playoff spots? Bo3 or Bo5 from the different 'classes'? Whatever those classes are is indeed up to debate and probably should be done in a separate topic.

I don't see an issue in including moleshopper and ariel into the mix personally, but i do understand the point of views of people saying its too many schemes to master, however it doesn't matter if you can't master them all surely? Because you make up your skills in another area, and as long as the playoffs have the right 'classes' you'll be ok knowing that if someone was the best ariel/hysteria player in POs, you've still got a chance to pick elite/inter, roper, or ttrr/bigrr if you know what i mean?

finding the right class groups won't be easy.. but lets worry about that in the POs and see if we get increased activity? even if POs are picking an approved scheme in order, and as long as the highest seed player has first choice, its still fair and the best allrounder should still win?
If an allrounder today means being pro in moleshop and ariel then so be it, they are the more active player and popular schemes on WA and PO seeds will be determined by your activity and skill level which should reflect the current state of wormnet right? The league should represent what people are playing in AG and people are still playing classic and people are playing newer schemes, so lets have an inclusive league of what represents today's wn. I've got no issues with someone who totally owns these new schemes being in POs because they deserve their place there for taking the time to learn and enjoy that scheme.

its just the same as 10 years ago, technical experts in one scheme like ryan and lordhound in rr, or komodo in bng could nearly get a 100% win, but thats why we've got rating schemes now to encourage allround activity. Imagine if mablak and random00 were active with all their allrounder schemes maxed out with elite rating, add a new scheme and they would need to train and learn it before seeing that rating increase, so a pro in moleshopper, at somepoint is going to start picking their weaker schemes if interested in points to be champion of wa.


thinking about this more, with 2 month seasons, 4 place POs and maybe 30 games to reach POs spot, highest points earn a PO spot. That would be enough to sustain a league and system perhaps for todays level of activity? Players like dibz, oldsock, csongi, sentator, etc could easily play enough games to have POs and be the season champion again and that might be enough to encourage old players to return, but newer players to take part, especially if schemes in that system included schemes they enjoyed. Look at the tournaments, they are still active and popular, WA isn't dying, its just evolving and we need a league that represents the interest of todays players, but new gen and classic.
I'd definitely say less PO spots, 4 sounds great, more activity to fight to get into playoffs (in theory).  The interface is confusing and the standings are hard to figure out, it definitely needs streamlining, I had trouble finding current season and so forth.  Allround should be merged with classic, one set of standings that you get pointed to.  Currently you have to select the current season from the bar to view standings, it defaults to season 55 of classic. 

These new changes will likely be the last incarnation of this league, whatever form it takes is likely the last, so I would trend toward something simple that would be viable going forward.

Offline Senator

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #238 on: October 04, 2018, 08:22 PM »
If you give less PO spots in a system where you can play as much as you want, you will eventually have only the nerdiest players fighting against each other. When the league was still active, I was advocating for more PO spots to stop the unhealthy competition for the last PO spots. You can always adjust the minimum game limit if you want more games from a single player.

Offline Senator

Re: Current status of the League
« Reply #239 on: October 05, 2018, 12:08 PM »
I like the idea of scheme classes, but i personally would only enforce them at a PO stage? And the POs could be very minimum at this stage due to active of only 4 playoff spots? Bo3 or Bo5 from the different 'classes'? Whatever those classes are is indeed up to debate and probably should be done in a separate topic.

Scheme classes have been discussed before (here and here for example). Many seemed to be stuck with "T17 is not Shopper" and "Roper is not WxW" and couldn't see the whole plot. MI actually tested those classes once but back then there was also Classic league playoffs and people were not interested in additional playoffs. Keep in mind classes would be used just to rank players in allround season table. Every scheme would still have its own season and overall rating.