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Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: Sensei on December 14, 2017, 06:39 PM

Title: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on December 14, 2017, 06:39 PM
Simple as that. No further explanations. Just don't do it.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Rabbzz on December 14, 2017, 07:34 PM
Too late
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on December 14, 2017, 08:07 PM
Too late

There's downgrade possibility.
Go to Update&Security, then pick Recovery. (I guess it's like that, my system is on croatian)
Somewhere in Recovery win10 will offer you going back on previous version. But if 30 days have past, it will not be possible anymore.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on December 14, 2017, 09:07 PM
Managed to downgrade to 1607.
Minimizing works, vsync off works. Worming the way it's supposed to be.

f@#! you microsoft.
1-0 Sensei.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: XanKriegor on December 14, 2017, 11:28 PM
f@#! Win10, big time.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Rabbzz on December 15, 2017, 05:13 AM
I’ve never had a problem with win10, though guess I haven’t had a real good rope in a long time also
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: StepS on December 15, 2017, 08:36 AM
You did not even describe what problems you're having. I now saw it in another thread which you didn't link to.

Almost the only issue I've had with 1709 (and solved) is low performance when having many windows open, due to some new anti-exploit techniques implemented. I recommend to disable Control Flow Guard (https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/96792-fall-creators-update-poor-performance-lagginess-fix.html), especially if you're dealing with graphics-heavy software. Otherwise rendering may become very slow in various apps.
Another issue that may be related to the latest updates (initially it worked on 1709) is that Hyper-V got broken, and its dependent "vmcompute" service won't run, no matter what I do. I've met at least one other dude with this exact problem, but he says that rolling the updates back doesn't help. This problem is new to December 2017.

I have already had two Wormers install the update. One of them reported only one issue with running the game which he resolved himself. He felt that the game was not running in exclusive fullscreen (which I couldn't independently verify), so the framerate was lower. He says he got it resolved by enabling "Disable fullscreen optimizations" in WA.exe properties. (I've mentioned this option before)
The "black screen issue" when v-sync is disabled has been confirmed to be fixed in 1709.

Other than this, the highlights I personally found useful in 1709 are: "placeholder" files support on OneDrive (which were last seen on Win 8.1 and then temporarily removed over dubious reasons) - where certain files are shown in your Explorer but actually are stored remotely and can become available offline at will, GPU Usage display in Task Manager, support for mounting external and non-NTFS drives on the Linux-on-Windows subsystem via drvfs, and a battery performance/capacity slider which I use on tablet.

Anyway, this is expected with recent Windows updates. The Fall Creators Update was released quite broken as said on various blogs. They still haven't fixed the issue where the cursor jumps to the corner of the screen when selecting multiple files in Winrar or 7-zip and scrollbars are present. In the end, what you see will of course depend on your software and hardware, some hardware drivers may be sensitive to the update more than others. I would expect them to gradually fix the issues in the next 4 months.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 11, 2018, 11:09 PM
So.. Few days ago, my 1607 version of win10 started causing problems (at least i think).
Games became unplayable cause of weird laggs and glitches, and W:A was dropping before even joining/hosting.

Decided to get 1709 update, but problem was I couldn't do it anymore (already downgraded once).
Last option was to download .iso file of 1709 from torrent, mount it and install.
Did all of that, got fresh C: disc (25 gb of old stuff gone)
All games seem to work now. Except, you know it - W:fkn:A.

Tried to right click it and disable fullscreen optimizations - no luck!
Then I made it compatibile with XP service pack 3, and game started working. Miracle.

Until I realised rope and jet are not like they used to feel on 1607. Some weird input lag is present.
Then I realize I can't open parachute (have it on right control and can't get it to work anymore after update)
Then I realize I can't click on taskbar icon after minimizing to get back in game.. etc. etc.


Why microsoft doing this to us wormers? Is there any chance some of you had similar problems, and if yes, how did you fixed it and get W:A to run smooth like it's supposed to!?

Thx.



f@#! you microsoft.
1-0 Sensei.

Guess it's 1-1 now. And they got away goal.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: StepS on January 12, 2018, 01:42 AM
Until I realised rope and jet are not like they used to feel on 1607. Some weird input lag is present.
Then I realize I can't open parachute (have it on right control and can't get it to work anymore after update)
Just to confirm, did you restore your settings on the new system? Your registry, which had all the config, was wiped fresh. Sounds like you forgot to enable wormkit too.

Then I realize I can't click on taskbar icon after minimizing to get back in game.. etc. etc.
That's because you enabled XP compatibility mode. Which forces the game to run "As Administrator", which causes the bug you described.
Instead, set it to Windows 8 or 7 compatibility mode.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 12, 2018, 04:58 AM
Just to confirm, did you restore your settings on the new system? Your registry, which had all the config, was wiped fresh. Sounds like you forgot to enable wormkit too.

Only changed C:: drive. Worms wasn't installed on that one.
Nah m8, didn't forgot to enable :) I use your wormkit module for roping. And cause wk_remapkeys doesn't allow to change f8 to right ctrl naturally, I also need to have IntesKeyChange program running in background, so that key gets remapped. (using command F8=#0xd2 in wk_remapkeys)
But since 1709 I'm not able to use right control as F8, for unknown reason.


[
That's because you enabled XP compatibility mode. Which forces the game to run "As Administrator", which causes the bug you described.
Instead, set it to Windows 8 or 7 compatibility mode.

Enabled XP mode cause game rejects to start after compatibility with Win 8 or 7.
When hosting/joining, I got that annoying sound of error and black screen.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: STRGRN on January 12, 2018, 01:53 PM
is it this 1709 update thingey that's causing worms to whitescreen after minimizing and opening up again?
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: nino on January 12, 2018, 03:00 PM
Simple as that. No further explanations. Just don't do it.

Ok m8 i wont. ty
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: AduN on January 13, 2018, 03:39 AM
Win10? Whats that
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: philie on January 14, 2018, 02:12 PM
is it this 1709 update thingey that's causing worms to whitescreen after minimizing and opening up again?

same problem here.
i can get over the white-screen by clicking on something to get into anther menu, like the map editor. all is left then is a white box in the upper screen that stays there, also while in-game.. pretty annoying.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 14, 2018, 06:22 PM
same problem here.
i can get over the white-screen by clicking on something to get into anther menu, like the map editor. all is left then is a white box in the upper screen that stays there, also while in-game.. pretty annoying.

Yeah man. This update is pure f@#!up.
As I've heard around internet, ppl have problems with all their games since 1709.
Some fix the problem with rightclicking .exe file and checking box "disable fullscreen optimizations". But for some, even that doesn't work. And judging by how fast and efficient microsoft fixing their problems - these ppl are screwed big time :)
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: MarianRV on January 14, 2018, 10:26 PM
The newest update f@#!ed up my system entirely, my screen keeps acting shady and even went fully black twice today...had to restart on both occasions to fix the screen :/
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: MeTonaTOR on January 14, 2018, 11:50 PM
Weird, just updated, no issue with game, runs even smoother
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 16, 2018, 10:50 PM
Just reinstalled. Problem ain't fixed.
Game needs to run in compatibility with WinXP. Otherwise I'll get this:


(https://i.imgur.com/UP53089.png)
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: KinslayeR on January 17, 2018, 08:28 AM
Just reinstalled. Problem ain't fixed.
Game needs to run in compatibility with WinXP. Otherwise I'll get this:


(https://i.imgur.com/UP53089.png)


for what the hell reason u have win 10 anyway? to be cool person? to make bill gates even more reach than he already is?  to have shitty things in cloud? to have bugs like this?
dude.. go to win xp or even win98 lol
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: SiD on January 17, 2018, 05:19 PM
Well, after a small windows update, I'm getting the same error as Sensei.
Replays run fine. Starting a game causes black screen requiring a CtrlAltDel to quit.
Tried all the compatibility modes, none work for me.

For now, I have to use wkD3D9Wnd.
Edit:
And actually it works pretty well!
In the past wkD3D9Wnd caused me to have slight input lag, but now with "disable fullscreen optimizations" checked, all is good.

wkD3D9Wnd.ini:
      [InGameSettings]
      Fullscreen=1

Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 17, 2018, 10:41 PM
That's a great news. Wanted to use that module for a long time, but didn't cause input lag.
I'll also try it out now, will give feedback later.

EDIT: yeah, nice revelation SiD. No more input lag when using d3d9wnd module. Although, my game is still broken after minimizing, so I'll need to play with compatibility to WinXP.
And parachute key is bugged, need to change that. For some reason wk_remapkeys is not allowing me to use same keys like I've used to in previous versions of windows.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: MeTonaTOR on January 17, 2018, 11:13 PM
Sensei, reinstall GPU drivers
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 17, 2018, 11:21 PM
Sensei, reinstall GPU drivers

Just edited my last comment up there.
Any reason why you think that would solve anything? Helped you with same problem or..?
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Rabbzz on January 18, 2018, 06:44 AM
Well, after a small windows update, I'm getting the same error as Sensei.
Replays run fine. Starting a game causes black screen requiring a CtrlAltDel to quit.
Tried all the compatibility modes, none work for me.

For now, I have to use wkD3D9Wnd.
Edit:
And actually it works pretty well!
In the past wkD3D9Wnd caused me to have slight input lag, but now with "disable fullscreen optimizations" checked, all is good.

wkD3D9Wnd.ini:
      [InGameSettings]
      Fullscreen=1

I’ll have to try this.

EDIT::
Enabling full screen alternative fixed the white screen minimize issue for me. But disabling fullscreen optimizations causes the game to lag on me every few seconds.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Jengu on January 18, 2018, 08:37 AM
I’ll have to try this.

EDIT::
Enabling full screen alternative fixed the white screen minimize issue for me. But disabling fullscreen optimizations causes the game to lag on me every few seconds.

Do you have both vsync options disabled? Assisted vsync can cause the problem you described.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 18, 2018, 09:13 AM
Edit #2:
Goom and myself "had fun" with setting up d3d9wnd module.

If ingame fullscreen is set to 0, worms will be windowed and it's possible to stream via Game capture, but input lag will be there.

If ingame fullscreen is set to 1 (as SiD proposed), input lag will be gone and could help anyone that have problem with Win10. Though, not much help for streamers.


Let's just hope 3.8 update will happen soon and make it possible to play W:A in windowed mode without vsync messing the gameplay.

Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Jengu on January 18, 2018, 10:27 AM
Let's just hope 3.8 update will happen soon and make it possible to play W:A in windowed mode without vsync messing the gameplay.

I believe that's only possible with Windows 7 and earlier.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Senator on January 18, 2018, 10:33 AM
If there's input lag with windowed mode, I haven't noticed it.

I have both vsyncs disabled and I'm using these settings in D3D9Wnd (also using SuperFrontend)
Code: [Select]
[Misc]
EnableModule=1
StaticWindowClass=1
NoTopmost=1
SoundInBackground=1
FancyStartup=0

[FrontendSettings]
Fullscreen=0
FullscreenAlternative=0
Stretch=0
Centered=0
RunInBackground=1

[InGameSettings]
Fullscreen=0
WindowBorder=1
Stretch=0
QuickInfo=1
TopLeftPosition=0

[MultiMonitor]
Enable=0
Monitors=Max
AutoSetResolution=1

Edit: windowed mode gives less FPS but still +650. It's good enough for me :D
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Sensei on January 18, 2018, 11:06 AM
@jengu, is it just speculation, or it actually is possible on Win7? I don't really remember using this module when 7 was installed on pc, so can't tell. Could anyone test how much fps drop on 7 and 10, when using d3d9wnd with ingame fullscreen set to 0?

@senator, can't believe you're not feeling difference. Lucky you :)


Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Rabbzz on January 18, 2018, 01:06 PM
Even using ingame fullscreen 1 it feels different from not using d3d9wnd at all.

@jengu. Yes both v-syncs off

Edit:: Been getting some black screens now. using these settings with d3dwnd doesnt feel too different from the vanilla for me.

[Misc]
EnableModule=1
StaticWindowClass=1
NoTopmost=1
SoundInBackground=1
FancyStartup=0

[FrontendSettings]
Fullscreen=0
FullscreenAlternative=1
Stretch=0
Centered=0
RunInBackground=1

[InGameSettings]
Fullscreen=1
WindowBorder=0
Stretch=0
QuickInfo=1
TopLeftPosition=0

[MultiMonitor]
Enable=0
Monitors=Max
AutoSetResolution=1
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: SiD on January 23, 2018, 05:43 PM
Some info about the D3DERR_DEVICELOST:

I set Windows scaling to 125% (I have a 14" 2560x1440 display)
If I set it back to 100%, then W:A works with no error.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: philie on January 23, 2018, 09:46 PM
Even using ingame fullscreen 1 it feels different from not using d3d9wnd at all.

@jengu. Yes both v-syncs off

Edit:: Been getting some black screens now. using these settings with d3dwnd doesnt feel too different from the vanilla for me.

[Misc]
EnableModule=1
StaticWindowClass=1
NoTopmost=1
SoundInBackground=1
FancyStartup=0

[FrontendSettings]
Fullscreen=0
FullscreenAlternative=1
Stretch=0
Centered=0
RunInBackground=1

[InGameSettings]
Fullscreen=1
WindowBorder=0
Stretch=0
QuickInfo=1
TopLeftPosition=0

[MultiMonitor]
Enable=0
Monitors=Max
AutoSetResolution=1

thanks rabbit, this fixes my whitescreen and weird box problems.
but i have both v-syncs on, otherwise it lags big time.
..sometimes it sets my windows text size to 150%, strange.
Title: Re: DON'T UPDATE ON 1709! (WIN10)
Post by: Rabbzz on January 25, 2018, 10:25 AM
Even using ingame fullscreen 1 it feels different from not using d3d9wnd at all.

@jengu. Yes both v-syncs off

Edit:: Been getting some black screens now. using these settings with d3dwnd doesnt feel too different from the vanilla for me.

[Misc]
EnableModule=1
StaticWindowClass=1
NoTopmost=1
SoundInBackground=1
FancyStartup=0

[FrontendSettings]
Fullscreen=0
FullscreenAlternative=1
Stretch=0
Centered=0
RunInBackground=1

[InGameSettings]
Fullscreen=1
WindowBorder=0
Stretch=0
QuickInfo=1
TopLeftPosition=0

[MultiMonitor]
Enable=0
Monitors=Max
AutoSetResolution=1

thanks rabbit, this fixes my whitescreen and weird box problems.
but i have both v-syncs on, otherwise it lags big time.
..sometimes it sets my windows text size to 150%, strange.

It was using fullscreen alternative that fixed my problems. I’m the opposite, v-sync = laggggg