If WA Was Rereleased on Steam...

[KoreanRedDragon]

Recently, Team17 have been a little less quiet about their relationship with Worms Armageddon and the plans that they may have for it. BillT17, the community manager, has gone on record saying that releasing their older titles on Steam is something that they're looking into. Furthermore, Worms Ultimate Mayhem (the rerelease of Worms 3D and Worms 4: Mayhem in one game) is a sign that doing more than just selling the exact same game, without updating anything, is also an option.

Obviously, this is an opportunity for many of those shiny 4.0 features to make it into WA sooner than 479327 years from now, because it opens up the possibility of Deadcode and CyberShadow being hired to work on it full-time and get, you know, paid for it. If such a rerelease did happen, the game we've been so engaged with for many years now could stand to gain a lot of exposure, resulting in a bigger, different WormNet for us all. But there's not much point thinking about all of this just yet; there are far simpler questions and dilemmas that need to be worked out first...

Whether this 4.0-on-Steam scenario actually plays out is something the Team17 management will have to agree on with Deadcode and CyberShadow, and is not something this poll has anything to do with directly. But one thing we know now is that T17 are concerned about how the community would react to such a rerelease. In the first forum post I linked to up there, Bill admits that when it comes down to it, they are a business and in order for them to commit to something, it has to be profitable. Are we hardcore WA fanatics a strong enough market to be worth selling the game to? Is it realistic to expect that we would be able to spread the word of WA's awesomeness by ourselves? Would we see 4.0 happening as a positive enough event to stand together and defend T17 from angry idiots on the Steam User Forums accusing them of being money-grabbing bastards? Bill's words, not mine, heh.

I've tried to keep this post (and the poll options above) neutral so as to not influence the outcome, but I suspect that the results themselves won't matter much in the end anyway. A discussion on the matter might prove a bit more insightful, though, and give those of us pushing for 4.0 to happen a better idea of how the current community would like things to be dealt with. Also maybe some ammunition with which to persuade T17 to finally do the right thing!

[Aerox]

I'd like to say so many things about this issue, but I've said so much already I wouldn't know how to order it and where to begin

but hey, we'll see how T17 handles all this, potentially, it could be awesome for us worms fans... potentially.

releasing WA on steam for a low price, with an enhanced online mode, achievements and whatever bonus is profit assured, and I  can't understand how this isn't obvious for them

[franz]

i'll start by saying what I said in the team17 thread:

"a re-release of W:A on Steam brings so much good to the table. an easier way to buy/install the game with Steam solves so many people's problems with obtaining/maintaining this great game.
offering this service alone justifies the cost I feel.

now, other current W:A players can voice their opinion, but for me personally, I would gladly and respectfully buy the game again if it helps Deadcode and Cybershadow for all the hard work that they have done to improve this wonderful game. heck, if you can tie a W:A re-release on Steam with a future update from them, that's a very easy sell for current W:A players and perfectly justifiable.

sure W:A currently functions very well now, but buying the game again through Steam brings so much potential:
easier to buy the game, install the game
reward all the extra hard work put into this game
expand the community, very likely larger than what W2:A has

anyone calling (Team17) "money grabbers" forevermore would be misguided, and I doubt many of these people even exist (less than 1%). too many people just want to play W:A again, and many of us current players would like to see W:A expand and reward those who have made W:A what it is today.

I understand (Team17) saying nothing will happen quickly, but the fact that you're thinking about it is great  I am willing to help in any way possible, and I'm sure others would too."

[franz]

oh and, they should hire MonkeyIsland too ^^

[StepS]

oh and, they should hire MonkeyIsland too ^^

[zippeurfou]

Honestly, I'm hopping nothing from wa. The post is pretty clear for me:
"We don't want to admit it officially but we lost any interest in wa".
Read the quote carefully if you don't believe me:

I've been thinking about how best to answer this question considering that it will be over analysed and quoted back at me for as long as I live  
In my opinion, it just mean that there's nothing and there'll be nothing done but he doesn't want us to blame him about it.

Having said that, the "it's complicated" answer is a good one. We love WA and we are really proud of how the game is regarded not only by Worms fans but also by gamers in general and the work that both Deadcode and Cybershadow have done has been amazing.

Now we have a desire here to make our back catalog of games available to a wider audience and in an ideal world that would mean doing something with WA too. But Team17 is out to make money and WA does not make us money any more and if we decided to re release on say Steam then I imagine comments like "money grabbing *******s" etc would flow forevermore.
As he is saying, wa is not a source of money and they are afraid of the audience feedback if they take the risk to re-release it. Why would they take such a risk.

Why would the current WA players go out an buy the game again when it currently functions very well now?

Now, this is not to say that we've given up any hope of sorting something out and I have regular chats with Cybershadow talking about different ideas, I just don't expect that we will see anything happen very quickly.
After this, it's clear that nothing will happen, don't be stupid


Sorry I can't say any more on it really.

[Peja]

Recently, Team17 have been a little less quiet about their relationship with Worms Armageddon and the plans that they may have for it. BillT17, the community manager, has gone on record saying that releasing their older titles on Steam is something that they're looking into. Furthermore, Worms Ultimate Mayhem (the rerelease of Worms 3D and Worms 4: Mayhem in one game) is a sign that doing more than just selling the exact same game, without updating anything, is also an option.

 Are we hardcore WA fanatics a strong enough market to be worth selling the game to?

are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)

since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie  )
 dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with  a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.

[Aerox]

Recently, Team17 have been a little less quiet about their relationship with Worms Armageddon and the plans that they may have for it. BillT17, the community manager, has gone on record saying that releasing their older titles on Steam is something that they're looking into. Furthermore, Worms Ultimate Mayhem (the rerelease of Worms 3D and Worms 4: Mayhem in one game) is a sign that doing more than just selling the exact same game, without updating anything, is also an option.

 Are we hardcore WA fanatics a strong enough market to be worth selling the game to?

are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)

since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie  )
 dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with  a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.

there's a huge market who would gladly buy WA in mass for around 10 dollars to play online with their old friends who used to play.

A huge market, part of it created by steam and their support for indie low budget releases of addictive low hardware usage games.

[KoreanRedDragon]

are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)

since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie  )
 dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with  a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.

Well, actually, we have stats for this. During the last two years, on average, 14977 unique nicknames join WormNet every month. Even if we assume that half of these are people's alternate nicknames (think snoopers, aliasing and nickname changes), even if we don't count those who play offline or not anymore, even if everyone else completely fails to notice that WA has become available on Steam, that still probably covers the development costs if it was just David and Vladimir working on the game for a year. Anything more would be profit. My math is approximate and I'm probably leaving things out (not sure about the cut Valve take from Steam game sales), but somehow this feels relevant anyway.

Steam stats on the other hand tell us that in order to get on the list of 100 most popular games there (out of several thousands), you need to reach around 400 people playing, both online and offline, at the same time. Currently, neither of the two Worms games available there are able to pull it off. I don't know if WA could do it, but there's no denying that the game has a pretty faithful following; we don't exactly switch to a new game every two weeks, do we...

[franz]

when Worms2:Armageddon released on Steam, lots of people spoke how disappointing it was compared to W:A.
lots more thought the same thing but never spoke up, they just stopped playing that game.

so of course there is a market out there. even casual fans of worms from back in the day would find something new to like even just from the features W:A has updated since 1999, the release.

[Aerox]

and let me highlight the importance of Steam as a game enhancer.
Goes without saying wormnet would become much more user friendly, ranks (or similar) could see a great opportunity to come back, buddy list as it comes with steam itself. Achievements, a game like WA could benefit incredibly from this, specially the casual public who isn't much interested in league competition.

[chakkman]

are u kidding me? we are some hundred geeks, this is no market. (the market would be all people who plyayed the game when it was released and forgot it)

since we are not the main target for a release we cant expect much from it. the goal of every release is to make profit, and you cant make profit with a small group of hardcoregeeks. (just ask some trekkies about the latest star trek movie  )
 dont get me wrong, i really would be happy about a release (even i dont like steam), mostly because our community woult become a bit bigger. but with  a economic pov i cant see any sense in a release.

I'll have to agree to that i'm afraid... not sure what would be a financial success for Team 17 though... they don't seem to be that big of a company, still, the market has changed, nowadays you won't be able to get many kids to buy a game with such odd (compared to nowadays standards) graphics and a gameplay which actually requires to lots of pratice to perfect it.

Edit: Just wanted to add that i think Team 17 have some real weirdo marketing guys sitting in their company... first they change a perfect 2D gameplay to some not working 3D stuff, then, they go "back to the roots" and publish a 2D Worms which a lot of people waited for, but against all well meant advices, they did a complete (cheap) rewrite of it with physics which are so worse that it's not enjoyable to play at all anymore and now they plan to re-publish W:A on Steam but only "if the money is ok". Seriously, those guys are either dreaming or completely incompetent imo...

[franz]

yea, like minecraft, who would buy that game with it's awful graphics.

come on chakkman, if a game is good enough, with enough of an enthusiastic fanbase, the graphics argument is just not valid anymore.

[Ramone]

What are the consequences and changes for current situation if this happens? KRD, U have mentioned in your 4th poll option that it would split the community.. Why is that? Does 4.0 automatically kills present WormNet and all that goes with it (TUS, other leagues..) or there's a way to have them both?

To me this is like when U are a hardcore fan of some band and U have listen their music for 12 yrs.. U have bought every album, old ones are still on vinyls, and the band does not play anymore.. U have your nice collection and U try to spread the word to youngsters how this band is really awesome but it's hard since there are so many new shiny "music" as Lady Gaga or w/e.. (who wants to play an old 2D game when there's all the fancy 3D games around..)
Then the few remaining alive band members decides to make and sell re-produced release as a collection with new shiny package and few extras maybe.. So, as a hardcore fan of course that I'll buy it and that I would be happy about it.. Of course I'll go to youngsters and tell them "hey, here's a re-release, a collection, U have it all in one package, buy it, it's a treasure".. So, there's no doubt in it.

I just don't get BillT17. I understand that he's careful what will ppl think and will they think "money-grabbers". But hey, what's wrong with his conscience, they are not selling some TV-shop "Lose-weight-in-7-days-bullshit" for only 29.99$.. They sell quality, they re-sell ingenious game that is worth and that has been proven good after all these years..
I believe that we all would be happy if we knew that ppl like Deadcode and CyberShadow, who have put so much effort and time into this, would finally earn some money out of it.. Why not, they deserves it..

Then again, I would listen to that new re-released DVD collection of my favorite band for some time, but I know that from time to time I would like to put a needle on a vinyl again and enjoy it's origins.. So, do we have to choose between those two or there's any other way?

I just wouldn't like to see TUS and all of the MonkeyIsland effort and time that he has spent for W:A to just go to waste like that.. That would be the only unfair part in a whole story, imho. I guess there can't be both (?), so the best thing would be if it could be merged all into one somehow. From my point of view DC and CS have credits for game being alive and updated and MI and TUS have credits for wormy community being alive and active for last few years at least...
I'm all for 4.0 as long as no one has been left behind, as long there's no splits.. So, as franz have said, they should hire MI too. ^^

p.s. not to mention that wmdb must be part of it too!
p.s.#2 I've voted "yes" btw. ;x

[Peja]

@ ropa, franz, krd

i quoted "hardcore wa fanatics" for a reason. i just answered your question.

i know there is a huge market and we would benifit from a release.but the "hardcore wa fanatics" are not the target audience.
afaik t17 already tried to catch the same market with worms 2 armageddon and wr. i got no idea about stats of this 2 games, but i think it did not work as good as they expected. i only can guess about the reasons.

a) the gametype isnt working anymore. (would be bad for a release of wa)
b) wrong marketing
c) the games were just bad, many people were disappointed after buying it. (this would be the great chance for wa, but keep in mind its hard to get disappointed people back)

imo: if t17 really wants to make some money the should focus on something new, if they want some profit with a classic 2 d worms they should re release wa.