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October 15, 2018, 09:31 AM

Poll

Should they release Worms Armageddon v3.8 on Dec. 31st. even if it's unfinished?

Yes. ("even if it hurts the game" or "I don't believe Deadcode, it won't hurt the game to release it now")
16 (38.1%)
No. ("release it when the maintainers believe it won't hurt the game" or "release it at a future date when I don't believe it will hurt the game")
26 (61.9%)

Total Members Voted: 42

Voting closed: February 27, 2018, 01:49 AM

Author Topic: Should they release Worms Armageddon v3.8 on Dec. 31st. even if it's unfinished?  (Read 6095 times)

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Offline j0e

Haha, I'm so curious about this update. It's been five years since the last one, and recently I started playing with some old friends. Wish the game didn't appear on Steam, cos T17 seems to take their time reviewing the update or whatever...
It's a great game without the update. There's tons of features and nothing is broken, except sometimes it needs some tweaking to work on Windows 10. No reason not to list it on Steam.

@CyberShadow - Is there any chance of unofficially releasing the update early for non-Steam users? I assume it's backwards compatible with the current version. You could label it as an alpha build and post it on worms2d.info along with a disclaimer. You guys said you want to do more frequent updates, and this would be a natural way to do it, as long as Team17 didn't file a lawsuit. With casual tiny "nightly" builds you won't feel pressure to include every last thing before releasing or seeking release approval, which I gather is a somewhat major obstacle. Is there a contractual requirement that the private alpha testing group has to be private?

Offline Sensei

There's tons of features and nothing is broken, except sometimes it needs some tweaking to work on Windows 10.

Agree with you gameplay wise. Except realtime worms, there's nothing much left to add.
Tho these tweaks for win 10 are pain in the ass, not even minor problems. For example, my game won't load if not compatible with Win XP (which makes rope a bit strange than it was before).

Also, on 3.7.2.1. windowed module is causing vsync anomalies and framedrops. These things are about to get fixed in 3.8, if rumours are true.

Pretty big and meaningful update imo. Too bad everyone's gone.
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Offline j0e

Quote
Pretty big and meaningful update imo. Too bad everyone's gone.
There's lots of talented players left. Lots more will come back when the update is released.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2018, 10:58 PM by j0e »

There's lots of talented players left. Lots more will come back when the update is released.

How do you actually know that? And what do you expect from this update other than some (obviously important but still) compatibility improvements and barely noticable bugfixes? I'm not saying this is all the patch has to offer but maybe you are painting way too much in your imagination. If (lots of) old players wanted to suddenly come back, they would be back; an update is cool and all but these people played that game in current and past state for years without complains then stopped playing because of personal reasons, lack of updates is the last thing that holds them off.

So what do you think this update will notably change in W:A or add to the game?  I'm curious.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2018, 01:52 AM by lacoste »
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Offline Crowe

Haha, I'm so curious about this update. It's been five years since the last one, and recently I started playing with some old friends. Wish the game didn't appear on Steam, cos T17 seems to take their time reviewing the update or whatever...
It's a great game without the update. There's tons of features and nothing is broken, except sometimes it needs some tweaking to work on Windows 10. No reason not to list it on Steam.

Yeah, indeed the game is great as it is right now, but I'm saying that before Steam, updates got released immediately. And now they have to go through T17, until approval :/

Offline skunk3

I don't see how anyone who still plays the game would NOT want the update to come out, even if unfinished. It would be interesting and also greatly speed up bug reporting and playtesting. It would also likely bring in a lot of older players. Also, since there's basically no clan/league scene at all at the moment it doesn't really matter too much if there's some hiccups here and there. I don't see a down side to releasing it.

Yeah, the game is great now but it can always be improved; and if 3.8 is an improvement, I want to play it.

Offline Sensei

I don't see how anyone who still plays the game would NOT want the update to come out, even if unfinished.

Not sharing too many similar opinions as Skunk3, but 100% agree with this sentence.
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Offline Ytrojan

I fear that Team17 might actually be doing this as an indirect method of killing the game, so that they can kill the servers.






Either that, or Team17's approval staff are lazy.
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Offline j0e

Any news guys? The lack of info is killing me.

Offline Sensei

Probably talking to ghosts but who cares.

Any chance 3.8 (if it ever comes out) could implement WormNAT2 and pre-checked "load wormkit modules" box?
Every now and then there's new player(s) trying to figure out why host button not functioning properly.

Just now there was situation in #ag where 2 Polish guys tried host/join over and over again.
It's pretty demotivating for newcomers when they need to "hack" the game or even router just to play few funners with friends.

This can be easily avoided!(?)

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Offline Ytrojan

Probably talking to ghosts but who cares.

Any chance 3.8 (if it ever comes out) could implement WormNAT2 and pre-checked "load wormkit modules" box?
Every now and then there's new player(s) trying to figure out why host button not functioning properly.

Just now there was situation in #ag where 2 Polish guys tried host/join over and over again.
It's pretty demotivating for newcomers when they need to "hack" the game or even router just to play few funners with friends.

This can be easily avoided!(?)
Yeah, it's like a similar problem on another game. They are implementing a minigame into the permanent feature set, but they're taking too long.


Worms Armageddon is no different
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Offline StepS

Any chance 3.8 (if it ever comes out) could implement WormNAT2 and pre-checked "load wormkit modules" box?
Every now and then there's new player(s) trying to figure out why host button not functioning properly.

This is a legal, economic, and technical problem at the same time. If the option is included officially with the game, you become responsible for making sure it always works. Because it becomes part of the product that people paid money for.

Now, as you know, our developers do not receive any money from Steam purchases. In an ideal world, part of this money would be spent on supporting the WormNAT2 proxy. That is how game dev companies provide hosting for the players. But there's no income here, and as you know, the server is prone to go offline every now and then.
Needless to say Team17 themselves are not likely to give a damn about this. Otherwise we could perhaps see something like Steamworks-driven networking, and relay servers support (which what WormNAT2 essentially is).

I hope this clears some things up for you.
Dec 30 2013 23:59:44 <StepS> windowed mode isn't the only thing you need about frontend
Dec 30 2013 23:59:49 <StepS> you need it to be actually bigger
Dec 31 2013 00:00:13 <StepS> it actually is very small on my 15-inch full HD screen
Dec 31 2013 00:00:25 <StepS> while running at 640x480 or stretched mode makes it fuzzy
Dec 31 2013 00:00:44 <StepS> this problem has been around since the Worms Armageddon's release and no one has even tried to beat it
[...]

Offline j0e

Got any news about the update StepS / anyone?

Is it correct that the completed 3.8 update was submitted to Team17 for approval months ago? Or are we experiencing delays in development?

Offline Sensei

I hope this clears some things up for you.

Yeah, thx for your answer. Found one thing funny in all of that:


This is a legal, economic, and technical problem at the same time. If the option is included officially with the game, you become responsible for making sure it always works. Because it becomes part of the product that people paid money for.

Host button never works for ppl that paid money for this game.. And I don't see T17 sweating about it last 20 years :D
Don't see how would they be against CS & DC implement longterm fix for mentioned problem. But yeah, I get your point anyways.
Keep us informed from time to time m8, you surely know more about update than us peasants. Take care ;)
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Offline StepS

Got any news about the update StepS / anyone?

Nothing I can share atm.

Host button never works for ppl that paid money for this game

Just because people keep coming to #Help to report hosting issues doesn't mean it "never" works. People only speak when something doesn't work. But I have seen lots of newcomers silently host successful games with their partners in WormNET channels. So what you're saying is untrue.

The built-in hosting system implies that the network configuration is correct. It is taken care of by the user. Whether hosting works or not, depends on the connection type of the player. The issue is that there's no disclaimer for this, and no explanation when a "connection is failed". That is what should be improved in my opinion.

WormNAT2, on the other hand, implies that your game will be hosted no matter what. It is taken care of by the developers. That is different.
In any case the option should not be "enabled by default", even if implemented. Because hosting directly, rather than wasting community-hosted bandwidth, is always preferred especially if the user's network setup already allows that from the start. You get lower latency with direct hosting as well (which is not a concern in a turn-based game, but still). Remember the "Greetings" message? The point still stands. Routing traffic requires resources.

Also, if you think nothing is done to resolve the problem, you're wrong. In 3.6.29.0, UPnP forwarding was added, which accounts for many successfully hosted games these days, even though it doesn't work with all routers, and some networks are private.
HostingBuddy constantly pings every game hosted on WormNET. If there's a game that can't be joined, it will message the player when he comes back with further details on how to fix the problem. But of course many people will ignore the message.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2018, 12:16 AM by StepS »
Dec 30 2013 23:59:44 <StepS> windowed mode isn't the only thing you need about frontend
Dec 30 2013 23:59:49 <StepS> you need it to be actually bigger
Dec 31 2013 00:00:13 <StepS> it actually is very small on my 15-inch full HD screen
Dec 31 2013 00:00:25 <StepS> while running at 640x480 or stretched mode makes it fuzzy
Dec 31 2013 00:00:44 <StepS> this problem has been around since the Worms Armageddon's release and no one has even tried to beat it
[...]