The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Worms: Armageddon => General discussion => Topic started by: Sensei on October 15, 2018, 06:05 PM
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After consolidating with StepS, I proposed few changes for Hosting Buddy schemes.
For him to update it, we'd need to send him new ones so he can implement it.
Personally can remember 3 of them:
Existent:
Shopper - no zook, random mines, banana in crates
Big RR - 30 sec, banana, teleport
Aerial - random mines, no SD, uzi, 4 mortars, 4 petrols
New: (will attach them below)
Shopper - inf zook, 3 sec mines, no banana in crates
Big RR - 40 sec, no banana, no teleport
Aerial - 3 sec mines, medium SD, no uzi, 2 mortars, 2 petrols
If anyone doesn't agree with changes, would like to hear the reason.
This updating is mainly focused for new ppl that are mostly using HB for playing.
So before commenting or attaching new schemes, try to think like a newcomer.
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After consolidating with StepS, I proposed few changes for Hosting Buddy schemes.
For him to update it, we'd need to send him new ones so he can implement it.
Personally can remember 3 of them:
Existent:
Shopper - no zook, random mines, banana in crates
Big RR - 30 sec, banana, teleport
Aerial - random mines, no SD, uzi, 4 mortars, 4 petrols
New: (will attach them below)
Shopper - inf zook, 3 sec mines, no banana in crates
Big RR - 40 sec, no banana, no teleport
Aerial - 3 sec mines, medium SD, no uzi, 2 mortars, 2 petrols
If anyone doesn't agree with changes, would like to hear the reason.
This updating is mainly focused for new ppl that are mostly using HB for playing.
So before commenting or attaching new schemes, try to think like a newcomer.
Something I just noticed the other day: Golf scheme has retreat time for some reason, despite there being no reason to retreat, like 5 secs, its quite annoying. Take it out. I'm sure there is tons more but I cant remember now.
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Don't f@#! with my Aerial scheme please >:(
It's good as is, I don't want it to be changed..
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Something I just noticed the other day: Golf scheme has retreat time for some reason, despite there being no reason to retreat, like 5 secs, its quite annoying. Take it out. I'm sure there is tons more but I cant remember now.
what if a map has precise rules on how a worm needs to be placed? reading cues might be hidden by worms
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Something I just noticed the other day: Golf scheme has retreat time for some reason, despite there being no reason to retreat, like 5 secs, its quite annoying. Take it out. I'm sure there is tons more but I cant remember now.
what if a map has precise rules on how a worm needs to be placed? reading cues might be hidden by worms
Golf should be hosted with /boom command (!version boom in hb). Same as boom race.
So worms can go through each other. I see that HB golf nor boomrace does have that implemented. Attaching new ones.
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After consolidating with StepS, I proposed few changes for Hosting Buddy schemes.
For him to update it, we'd need to send him new ones so he can implement it.
Personally can remember 3 of them:
Existent:
Shopper - no zook, random mines, banana in crates
Big RR - 30 sec, banana, teleport
Aerial - random mines, no SD, uzi, 4 mortars, 4 petrols
New: (will attach them below)
Shopper - inf zook, 3 sec mines, no banana in crates
Big RR - 40 sec, no banana, no teleport
Aerial - 3 sec mines, medium SD, no uzi, 2 mortars, 2 petrols
If anyone doesn't agree with changes, would like to hear the reason.
This updating is mainly focused for new ppl that are mostly using HB for playing.
So before commenting or attaching new schemes, try to think like a newcomer.
Something I just noticed the other day: Golf scheme has retreat time for some reason, despite there being no reason to retreat, like 5 secs, its quite annoying. Take it out. I'm sure there is tons more but I cant remember now.
golf has retreat time because you could eventually block your opponent's angle, forcing him to rope knock you
but those aren't a problem anymore (with /boom) i guess
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I agree with your changes for the Shopper scheme, except for the mine fuse. It should still be random, otherwise whoever starts playing first will be able to make use of most of the mines, thus gaining this advantage of which the other players won't have later. If random, they'll think twice before risking touching any.
Oh, and another change needed for HB Shopper IMO is that the weapon retreat should be 5 seconds instead of 3 since there are also ground weapons to be used, and the spread from 3 to 10 seconds, when you can even get away with rope so much faster… having 5 seconds to get away on ground is the least you can do to make it more even. Adding more time than 5 seconds wouldn’t be interesting since you likely wouldn’t have much ground to retreat, and it’d be too much of a monotonous and non-dynamic retreat to wait for as far as the game works.
I also enjoy having Uzi and Skunk in crates in Shopper for more variety, but I wouldn’t mind not having them in Shopper. I know Skunk might generate more confusion in who’s leader because of the poison effect.
I’d also like to emphasize how important I think infinite Bazooka is in Shopper. I also always get baffled whenever I see a Shopper scheme made for a tournament, for example, in which there is no infinite Bazooka. It’s like, you have no standard weapon to do reasonable damage if you are unlucky, finding some very weak and ineffective weapon, so it turns out you end up with some dead turns during the matches. With infinite Bazooka, on the other hand, you have something to at least keep you steady in the killing race instead of just being helpless and letting your opponent crush you with a bigger weapon, allowing unnecessary luck to interfere in the game/scheme. Moreover, it allows you to choose whether to use the weapon you found in the crate or Bazooka according to the situation, providing more strategy in play.
The 40 seconds in big rr... I wouldn't see a problem if most Big RRs were played with Rubberworm's /ldet, which is how traditional Big RRs should be played so that all players are allowed to have the same turn time and not lose a game for having had unlucky turns in which make the timer stop (as in any real race). And this is how weaker players manage to beat stronger ones. The fact that one type of fall makes the timer end and another doesn't doesn't justify at all why that should be true; it’s basically just a technical limitation that has a fix. Plus, if you feel like speeding up your pacing, you are already risking falling more often, and hence giving your opponent more chances to catch up. Over the years, I lost count how many times I won a Big RR lamely just because my opponent, who was better, had bl in a few turns. Now I know one can say that falling isn't affected by luck in Big RR since it all comes down to the commands you insert with your fingers, but the fact of a player earning so much more time to outrun his opponent in the race (as a time bonus) is just plain stupid. It can even make the player who is winning slow their pace down just so they can rope safer since the time bonus already granted certain victory to some extent.
Another reason that makes /ldet more enjoyable is that it allows players to rope faster than their usual pace if they are seeking to improve their speed. If you try to do this in a game without /ldet, you are just likely to make your turn end, and then you’d just have to sit and watch the other players race instead of the game having let you play within your turn time limit. And of course, that also leads to a slower improvement from the players.
But since most players don't have rubber, what I tend to do is hosting with 35 seconds and no banana, and here's why: traditional Big RR is 30 secs + 10 secs of banana, so you'd initially think you have 40 seconds, but that's not entirely true. The extra 10 seconds you have won't allow you to keep racing if you fall from rope, so those are some “semi-10 seconds”, which is why I put that very in-between number, 35. And another reason for it is that having 40 seconds under a race scheme settings that might make you lose your turn from the very beginning is just way too much of a time bonus that you might give to your opponent(s). With 35 seconds, however, you won't race as little as you would with only 30 seconds, and you also wouldn't lose that much time if you fall, so the advantage you'd give to your opponent wouldn't be that huge.
What do you mean “no teleport in Big RR”, Sensei? There isn’t teleport already, unless you’re talking about the auto/manual initial placements option?
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@Shopper
Has HB Shopper scheme always had 3s retreat time (AFG)? I guess it's 3s to save time. League schemes and wmdb tournament scheme have 10s retreat, btw. Here it's 5s: http://worms2d.info/File:Shopper.wsc
There are also different versions of crate probabilities. I think you should ask about Shopper on #worms channel before changing anything.
@Aerial
Some of the changes are more like your own personal preference, aren't they? You didn't like full power petrol shots so you reduced them from 4 to 2 etc. The round time is also debatable.
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When I remove teleport from my Big RR scheme, somebody necessarily f@#!s up with initial spawning
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@Aerial
Some of the changes are more like your own personal preference, aren't they? You didn't like full power petrol shots so you reduced them from 4 to 2 etc. The round time is also debatable.
Every change I've made in Aerial initially come from personal opinion. Ofc. Because I was the only one that cared enough to think about it. And every of those changes were accepted by big majority of players after thorough explanation and after all - their thorough testing.
All of the changes were also explained publicly in many threads before, so there's really no point in doing it again, but here you go: petrols and mortars are reduced to 2 and uzi is removed. Why? Cause when sudden death strikes, it makes it much easier to finish game when you have 4 chances of full powering petrol or notching mortar. Not to speak about uzi when it's late stage of SD and you just burst it on other side of the map. 0 skill envolved in that.
Only ppl I've seen against it was HHC (cause he made existent league scheme) and Chelsea (cause he doesn't like fast and more interesting pace of SD, rather prefers darksiding and 40 min games)
And apparently yourself, Senator, but I don't get the reason behind it.. Knowing you almost never join/host Aerial games in #ag.
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I'm not against your scheme, Sensei. I just wasn't sure if those changes were supposed to fix something or just make the scheme better for yourself. I don't play Aerial, that's true.
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I'm not against your scheme, Sensei. I just wasn't sure if those changes were supposed to fix something or just make the scheme better for yourself. I don't play Aerial, that's true.
Every change made by sensei to the aerial scheme is grounded in making the scheme more competitive and taking out all the variation from bad spawns, ect.
I'll make my case in TUS style with a wall of text.
Mines - 3 sec is better than the original random fuse, random mines are quite ridiculous in a competitive league scheme, full stop. Let's go beyond the most compelling point if that isn't convincing enough. Sometimes in random placements you will find yourself in a situation where you need to get by a mine to get into the fight, you basically just have to chance it or dig out. The biggest problem with aerial to begin with is trapped worms in initial placement. The teleport is one of the most important utilities in aerial, you only get one. Thus, you cannot go spending it to free trapped worms because they are behind random mines. This is the biggest no-brainer change to aerial, I'll try and format this top to bottom, most needed to least needed.
Sudden Death - I feel sudden death is another needed change because of random placements and the proclivity of Bo3 matchups in this scheme. Sudden death seeks to equal the playing field, if you have bad opening positions and are behind going into SD, you have a chance to win by plopping worms. This assures no lead given to a player because of good spawns is insurmountable going into the late game. Also, it shortens boring long games where both players are hiding and unwilling to be aggressive, thus ending a standoff.
Petrol - This is a tough one. Petrol is useful for taking out hiding enemy worms at the side of the map, but again, to look at the competitive dna of this game, we arrive back at the teleport issue. With only one teleport, often you can be forced to use it at the beginning of the game to free an egregiously trapped worm. With 4 petrols, you can easily petrol and re-petrol a worm to trap it indefinitely. In all honesty this isn't a big change, 2 ---> 4 petrols is not a meaningful change one way or another
Mortar - Not a big change, 2 ---> 4 mortars isn't going to change much, I don't even think mortar is a more viable option than zook or nade 99% of the time, very little competitive change here.
Uzi - Not sure, I've never used uzi in aerial. At least not on purpose. So I guess it could come out, would be easier for me to select shotgun :)
Sensei has retrofitted the scheme nicely, I think it would be a missed opportunity not to adapt the scheme. It is a more fast paced and strategic game with the changes.
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Is there any chance of updating the BnG scheme to reflect the current norm? Infinite teleports, shotgun with 1 star power, 1 girder and no blowtorch/drill.
Also, any possibility of adding the a2b scheme as well?
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Mortar - Not a big change, 2 ---> 4 mortars isn't going to change much, I don't even think mortar is a more viable option than zook or nade 99% of the time, very little competitive change here.
I'd say it is quite a change for game ending.
Mortar have same trajectory as full power nowind zook and full power 4sec grenade.
Now, for zooks, you'll only get, what.. 1-2 zero winds throughout game, if you're lucky enough?
For full power 4 sec grenade you'd need a calculated higher ground to throw from, just so you could get a full damage on worm on other side of the map (and even then few miliseconds will result in total fail)
By having 4 mortars in the ending of a game, when hp is low and hides are non-existent, you basically have 4 zero wind zooks in a row. Even a newbie will figure out how to notch it properly in 4 tries. With 2, your chances are quite lower of hitting the right spot.
Appreciate the comment man. Thx for taking your time.
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Yeah Sensei's scheme is better for competitive scenario but I only disagree with 3s fuse mines, it should be 2s.
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Yeah Sensei's scheme is better for competitive scenario but I only disagree with 3s fuse mines, it should be 2s.
I also agree that for competitive play, that is, 1x1, 2x2 etc, a fixed amount of time is better for the fuse, but for HB Shopper I was assuming we were talking about FFA games instead since that's what most people play there, and in games like that with lots of players, random fuse is better so that the first ones to play don't abuse it and leave the last ones without being able to perform this "extra damage".
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Thanks Walrus for the explanation :) What about crates? They are totally fine in HB scheme but in a league scheme? Isn't it the same thing as crates in Inter? Walrus said we should aim for a Bo1 scheme for the league and then there's no place for crates. Round time could be also a bit longer if it's Bo1.
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Bo1 is a bit demotivating in aerial due to random placements and 2 big weapons on F5. If a player get bad hides, game could be determined right on the start. That's why I'm always hosting 2v2's not only with bo3, but also 3 worms per player. Just feels natural and no one ever saw it as something that needs to be changed. You should try it yourself and test. About crates, they're fun and nice addition in bo3, but if you decide to make it bo1 - they don't have place in aerial anymore. Imo, if this scheme will get that kind of changes, maybe hyst was a better choice to stick at. I thought aerial is added to refresh TUS a bit, not to make blatant copy of existent scheme and known lame tactics of telecowing and telecids.
@kaleu, why 2s fuse instead of 3? It's not that big of a change, but 3s gives you more variety to mine knocks and planned attacks. Not often you see someone get demolished by mines from map, and when they do, that's not easy to achieve. Any reason for 2s?
Sorry for not answering magnus. Your idea makes sense when it comes to ffa and if 3s mines are missused that much (didn't notice personally), random should stay.. But have in mind there are ppl that play 1v1,2v2 shoppers.. So 3s is far better option in that cases.
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What does crates have to do with telecowing and telecids? I don't think we would go further than that. Removing crates won't make it a blatant copy of Hysteria. If it did, then Aerial already is like Hysteria most of the time. :D
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What does crates have to do with telecowing and telecids?
Nothing. I feel like bo3 doing more in preventing ppl to use telecows and telecids. Due to random placements, first game can be rough to 1 player. Then he's forced to jetcow to overcome losses. Small chances are that will happen next round tho, so players can have proper fight and in the end there's possible third match to determine winner.
Bo1 punches you in the face and sometimes there's no escape. Considering really fast pace of the scheme, I don't think it's necessary to do bo1 for leagues.. But whatever players prefer. I'll always ask opponents for bo3, no matter what's decided. Crates are just small portion of luck that could end game a bit quicker, which is not needed in bo1.
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@Wally:
Random mines because 3 sec makes easy clearing with JP. The danger of encountering a 0 sec makes it less beneficial to clear your entire side of any mines b4 they can strike you. 0 sec mines also no, cause annoying with JP and too powerful for this scheme imo.
SD: SD is lame, in Elite and T17 as well, but it's really needed there to finish a game. Without that purpose it wouldn't be in, cause it sucks that in Elite you can lose a game that you were dominating simply because you get stuck on the wrong side of the map.
In Aerial SD is not needed. As the game progresses more and more land gets cleared with zooks and other weaps. I actually really love those late games in Aerial where you are flying through shards of lands, taunting the enemy to leave his hiding spot.
Bo3 also sucks ass. It sucks enough that inter has a mandatory Bo3, no other scheme should aspire to have the same. Every game should count, and Bo3 makes league games needlessly long. Even a long Aerial without SD takes shorter than a 3 seperate rounds wíth SD.
Petrols and mortars and uzi's are insignificant.
The above is why Aerial should stay as is in league games.
With hostingbuddy there's an additional reason not to change: you DONT want bo3 hb schemes + all the reasons why the scheme should be changed for leagues don't matter cause HB is primarily for fun games between casual players.
It would seriously upset me if the scheme gets changed. It's my baby, I love it. Every detail is just as I imagined it to be.
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Your baby is grown up now, HHC, time to let go.
Judging by Aerial games you played on TUS (7 games in last 20+ seasons) seems like you did indeed let it go...
These are not some ego driven changes I seek here. They can even put your name in front of new scheme, couldn't care less.
Just give active competitive ppl proper and permanent link for scheme that's updated and accepted by majority. End of story.
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Judging by Aerial games you played on TUS (7 games in last 20+ seasons) seems like you did indeed let it go...
Bit of a low blow. Everyone knows I don't league much, if at all. I'm sure people know that I've played more than 7 games of this scheme in my life ::)
These are not some ego driven changes I seek here. They can even put your name in front of new scheme, couldn't care less.
How is that even remotely something that I would want?
Aerial is my invention, and I won't allow ppl to alter it when it's changes that I don't support, at all. Now of course, that's not something to enforce. But if you want to make an alternative scheme, treat it as such. Name it Aerial SD or Aerial-Sensei's or some shit like that, so that people will know it's not the same scheme that I created.
Naturally, considering I'm not in favour of your version, I will be against it being implemented as the TUS official scheme. But I'm willing to accept that if the majority of players want it so, but don't name it 'Aerial' then.
Changing it in HB is a definite no-go though. Cause that way I would lose both my own scheme being up there + it would almost surely end up with your version replacing my own scheme as standard, and original "Aerial", which it is not.
Just give active competitive ppl proper and permanent link for scheme that's updated and accepted by majority. End of story.
Who's the majority, you and Walrus?
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Name it Aerial SD or Aerial-Sensei's or some shit like that, so that people will know it's not the same scheme that I created.
It's called Aerial (Sudden Death) since the day changes were implemented.
Changing it in HB is a definite no-go though. Cause that way I would lose both my own scheme being up there
This is most childish and selfish line of text I've read around TUS forums in a while.
Who's the majority, you and Walrus?
Sure, only us 2. ;)
Have it your way guys, I'm done fighting with windmills.
Hah, the irony! Windmills, Netherlands..
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It's called Aerial (Sudden Death) since the day changes were implemented.
But once it's gonna go official, it's gonna be just 'Aerial', here on TUS as on WN.
This is most childish and selfish line of text I've read around TUS forums in a while.
I'm not gonna lose sleep over the matter, but I feel that I must stand up for my shit here.
I invented the scheme, fine-tuned it, plugged it by hosting tourneys and cups, plugged it some more, managed to get it added to free league on TUS and to complete the process, got it added to the game itself as a HB-scheme.
Have you invented an entire scheme/gametype in any game and managed to get it to be part of the game for everyone else?
I don't think so.. it's quite a feat, and something I worked hard for to achieve.
It's not a matter of life and death, but if you don't protect these things, then what is there to stand for? I highly doubt I'm gonna be send on a mission to the moon one day.. so yah..
Also, people here know I've been fighting against the tendency of "pro's" to strip down every scheme to its bare essentials as to make it more 'league-fit' (as in 'predictable raw skill contests') by removing any RNG elements (like crates.. or mine timers..). I'm not gonna accept it happening to my very own scheme, which for a large part was created just with all that in mind. Aerial is different than other schemes precisely because no single game is the same, there are general patterns, but every game has its own challenges and a different outcome. Sometimes you finish it within 10 turns with a donkey, sometimes you go an hour shooting dumb zooks at each other. And there's several strategies to choose from: girder blocking; tele cowing; bng-artillery; putting high pressure; destroy map with zooks, etc. Precisely that variance and unpredictability makes it fun and not-repetitive.
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I like the idea of aerial being Bo1, in a 2 pick league system Bo3 should be avoided whenever possible. The random elements of placement don't create more variation than say t17, so I am okay with aerial having more elements of chance. I would say my two biggest issues are getting superweapons in crates that immediately end the game e.g. sheep strike, banana bomb, ect.; and the random mines, assign the mines a fuse like every other competitive league scheme known to man.
HHC, im surprised that in your testing you didnt realize that random mines were an issue. You could say it is just sensei or I, but in reality, I've heard so many people complain about the random mines in the original scheme.
The main problem as I see it is a Bo1 aerial right now involves quite a bit of luck because worms can be trapped, I played an aerial with dibz where all 4 of my worms spawned up top and two of his spawned below. By the time he teleported one worm up and got of control a worm on top, i had almost already killed his two worms that started up top. He had no chance to start the game any better than 2 worms down. This is an extreme case, everything went wrong for dibz to be screwed so badly, it doesn't usually happen this way, but there is still a lot of luck involved. Once you add in random mines and health crates and superweapons in crates, games can be turned even easier with a lucky break. I've played many games with sensei, we are about equal ability, many games we've played have been determined by a weapon crate and nothing else.
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Sorry for not answering magnus. Your idea makes sense when it comes to ffa and if 3s mines are missused that much (didn't notice personally), random should stay.. But have in mind there are ppl that play 1v1,2v2 shoppers.. So 3s is far better option in that cases.
I see. Well, but the thing is, you said this is for updating “HB” schemes, and considering most people play FFA in Shopper, would it really be a good idea to change it to a fixed time fuse? I mean, 1x1/2x2 Shoppers are probably mostly played among friends, although sometimes I do see them being hosted publicly. And if friends, they’re likely to have their scheme ready, and if they want a scheme for more serious competition, they’d use a league Shopper scheme or something. I just believe that it’s the majority of players who shouldn’t have the need to type any command to make a change, don’t you think?
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@HHC
Mines: which one is worse, players taking a gamble to get out of a mine block or players being able to clear the map of mines (or utilize easier for extra damage..)? Rewarding for taking gambles is questionable imo.
SD: Walrus said SD is necessary because otherwise it's hard to make a comeback if you get unlucky placements. Do you disagree?
Crates: are random crate drops less decisive in Aerial than say in Intermediate or why do you think crates are fine in the league scheme? Remember HB scheme and league scheme don't have to be the same.
I think Aerial can stay in HB as it is. Perhaps add Sensei's scheme there too. MI can probably run a script to see which scheme majority is using in league matches. If there will be changes, I wouldn't mind having the original Aerial in Free league and the new scheme in Allround.. Call it Ariel or whatever.
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Also I don't think we should change the hostingbuddy's scheme, keep it as HHC's imo, my comments have been on the league scheme only
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Mines: which one is worse, players taking a gamble to get out of a mine block or players being able to clear the map of mines (or utilize easier for extra damage..)? Rewarding for taking gambles is questionable imo.
I think the clearing part is worse. Because if you can easily clear the mines around you, there isn't really any point in having them at all?
There's nothing wrong with a 'gamble' element IMO. Because it forces you to make an extra decision: which mines are worth clearing even if I can blow myself up? A really, really pesky mine is still worth taking the risk, while other mines usually aren't and can be left alone. That's why I think the crates are also interesting. Quite often you have to choose between getting a crate and hoping for something good OR getting a good hide. Sometimes a suicide hide is still worth it if the crate is game winning (which it usually isn't).
Crates are an important element in luring players out of their hides and keeping the game dynamic.
I also stand by my wormy rule: if a game element doesn't BREAK the scheme, it's worth keeping. A completely stripped scheme like BnG has become is not something I find interesting and challenging to play anymore. That's why I'm in favour of keeping crates, mines, barrels and as many weaps in as possible.
I do agree that Donkey or Armageddon are O/P, but they happen only really rarely, and if you remove them, you also remove mine strike, mole strike and other funky weaps that are by no means O/P.
SD: Walrus said SD is necessary because otherwise it's hard to make a comeback if you get unlucky placements. Do you disagree?
I disagree yes. Aerial is a scheme in which you can still win 1vs4. Most games end up with players being on either side of the map shooting from a distance at each other. The player with fewer worms has an easier job hiding his worms and taking out enemies that take a few extra turns to make their move. I don't think Walrus wants SD to be a complete equalizer, like it sometimes is in Elite. To me that's punishing the player who has been dominating whole game (and this is most often because of their superior play and less often because of sheer placement luck).
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Just to be clear, as title says, this thread was about HB schemes.
I proposed few changes but don't really care about them getting implemented or not.
Last few posts were pointed towards TUS Aerial, not HB one.
EDIT: as far crates goes, there's 6 default schemes and only 1 (team17) containing them. Having bo3 Aerial with crates is welcome, imo. But if you make it mandatory bo1 without crates - it's hyst duplicate.
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!host Aerial
!host Aerial_SD
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Because if you can easily clear the mines around you, there isn't really any point in having them at all?
You can still use them for extra damage (possibly bigger first turn advantage though?), and they can block some hides for a moment because you may not have time to clear them right away. Pretty much like in Shopper?
There's nothing wrong with a 'gamble' element IMO. Because it forces you to make an extra decision: which mines are worth clearing even if I can blow myself up?
A smart player doesn't rely on luck (unless you really have to). I would find it annoying if my opponent took gambles all the time and got away with it.
I also stand by my wormy rule: if a game element doesn't BREAK the scheme, it's worth keeping. A completely stripped scheme like BnG has become is not something I find interesting and challenging to play anymore. That's why I'm in favour of keeping crates, mines, barrels and as many weaps in as possible.
It's funny you say this after defending a stripped down version of T17. ;D
Having bo3 Aerial with crates is welcome, imo. But if you make it mandatory bo1 without crates - it's hyst duplicate.
You are still saying Aerial is a Hysteria duplicate 90% of the time (when no crate drops), huh? The number of rounds doesn't have anything to do with Aerial being or not being a Hysteria duplicate. You can have a "proper" fight in Hysteria too depending on placements. And some people play the same way no matter what. I will always rely on telecow/jpcow shit because I suck at bng.
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how about let the wormnet ppl to vote on schemes xd
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They wouldn't even see changes being implemented, Charles. Everyone that play shopper eventually learn to say CAK and write commands: !ammo baz inf, !crate ban 0, etc..
Those who learnt it will continue to write all the commands nevertheless, but new ppl that arrive shouldn't be bothered with that kind of stuff if they don't need to! And they, for sure, don't!
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Just simple as "we love aerial cuz it's a fast pace game", but "darksiders" kinda ruin it tbh. Aerial SD is the answer! Hail Aerial_SD.
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... petrols and mortars are reduced to 2 and uzi is removed. Why? Cause when sudden death strikes, it makes it much easier to finish game when you have 4 chances of full powering petrol or notching mortar. Not to speak about uzi when it's late stage of SD and you just burst it on other side of the map. 0 skill envolved in that.
Yes, there's enough time for a player to find position, notch it a bit and get the result (unlike in hysteria), so reducing petrols is a good decision. Not really sure about mortars because I don't think they are that powerful to push the worm anyway, better suited for clearing girders which is quite alright. Uzi? Not really bothered me much as well. Shotgun is more accurate for that matter.
Random mines because 3 sec makes easy clearing with JP. The danger of encountering a 0 sec makes it less beneficial to clear your entire side of any mines b4 they can strike you. 0 sec mines also no, cause annoying with JP and too powerful for this scheme imo.
Mines: which one is worse, players taking a gamble to get out of a mine block or players being able to clear the map of mines (or utilize easier for extra damage..)? Rewarding for taking gambles is questionable imo.
Yeah, random mines are ok, I'd consider instant mines for that case though to make it more deterministic and that would discipline a player to master jetpacking! This also makes pushing a mine with bazooka/grenade onto the opponent predictable). I've noticed significant increase in flying accuracy in other schemes like Mine Madness just because of that. But if you treat random mines as if they're instant, there's really not that much of gambling involved. I like elite's instant mines.
Only ppl I've seen against it was HHC (cause he made existent league scheme) and Chelsea (cause he doesn't like fast and more interesting pace of SD, rather prefers darksiding and 40 min games)
True, I'm quite happy with SD because I get tired a bit after around 25 mins of playing (except for BnG ofcourse!), and the water rise speed is slow enough to allow making decent decisions.
I like the idea of aerial being Bo1, in a 2 pick league system Bo3 should be avoided whenever possible. The random elements of placement don't create more variation than say t17, so I am okay with aerial having more elements of chance. I would say my two biggest issues are getting superweapons in crates that immediately end the game e.g. sheep strike, banana bomb, ect.; and the random mines, assign the mines a fuse like every other competitive league scheme known to man.
Yes, Bo3 is redundant, better just have 2 teles if luck factor is involved with auto placement. I kinda like to dig out from difficult places and block away potential plop holes, so to say. This again adds elite feeling. Superweapons is another thing that concerns me.
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I’d also like to emphasize how important I think infinite Bazooka is in Shopper. I also always get baffled whenever I see a Shopper scheme made for a tournament, for example, in which there is no infinite Bazooka. It’s like, you have no standard weapon to do reasonable damage if you are unlucky, finding some very weak and ineffective weapon, so it turns out you end up with some dead turns during the matches. With infinite Bazooka, on the other hand, you have something to at least keep you steady in the killing race instead of just being helpless and letting your opponent crush you with a bigger weapon, allowing unnecessary luck to interfere in the game/scheme. Moreover, it allows you to choose whether to use the weapon you found in the crate or Bazooka according to the situation, providing more strategy in play.
I really disagree and think shopper with inf zook is really bad and just turns things into a bit of a roper style, you want focus on what the creates and could be and if you get lame cr8 your skillful enough to use it.
Inf drill was good to cause damage if you got a bad cr8 and alot of the maps i remember playing on alot of players would tend to hide in spots where you could knock and drill them for 35-42 damage.
But i'm old and the cr8 chances were probably different and didn't get as many issues of cr8 rope.
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implemented