The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon

When I was a teenager and started playing Worms Armageddon online, the first thing that caught my attention was "Ropers." They frequently played Ropers, TTRR, and Warmers, and I was always impressed by how fast their rope movements and taps were. Their speed seemed unnatural to me, and I noticed that many players displayed similar skills. Back then, I wondered if it was possible for me to reach such a phenomenal level of rope skill. Over time, I did develop some dexterity, and in my mind, I felt I was on the right path to becoming a pro.

Eventually, I decided to leave Worms behind and focus on my life. I was away for over ten years and returned to WA in 2015. I saw many skilled ropers, but the "super fast tap" ropers were less common. Their speed still seemed unnatural, yet impressive. However, something about these extremely fast ropers bothered me, though I couldn't quite put my finger on it. I hesitated to call them out because many of them were highly respected. Additionally, I preferred to avoid confrontation—besides, they weren't harming anyone. Still, I had a lingering suspicion that some might be using something to gain an advantage. Not all of them had super fast taps, though.

In the past, people often told me that a mechanical keyboard was the key to improvement. They weren't wrong. Eventually, I got myself a mechanical keyboard, and my roping skills noticeably improved. As time passed, I upgraded to a monitor with a faster response time and a higher refresh rate. I also increased my resolution to 1080p and disabled both V-Sync options. My roping dexterity dramatically improved, and I even experimented with different keyboards. However, despite these enhancements, achieving super fast taps remained impossible. I could occasionally pull off a finger roll, but not consistently. Ironically, some lesser-experienced players accused me of cheating.

As time went on, I learned that some players used scripts to enhance their roping skills, essentially taking their gameplay to another level. As I understood it, these scripts performed the roping for them. At first, I didn't want to make a fuss about it, but it made me reflect on everything I had seen back in 2015 and the mid-2000s. How many players had used such tools to gain an unfair advantage? Players who had received years—if not decades—of praise and accolades? Were the legacies of renowned ropers and even ground players built on a false foundation? Maybe this topic is considered taboo, or perhaps I simply reached my limit and could never attain such roping skills myself.

So why am I writing about this now? A recent event in our community—where a member was allegedly caught cheating on TUS (to my understanding)—got me thinking. How many players in the past might have used tools to gain an advantage? Many of them aren't even around anymore, which could explain why we see less of that extreme roping today. Of course, a valid counterpoint to this would be: "It's because there's less interest in roping."

With that said, let me be clear: I do not condone the use of such tools, even if they break barriers to a new level of experience. I have a moral compass that values fairness, fun, and a just game for everyone. That said, I know this may sound contradictory, but I personally don't mind if people use tool-assisted scripts in my rope race games. My rope skills can still hold their own, and even if I lose, it doesn't bother me much. However, I fully understand why others take issue with this, and I sympathize with them. It robs them of a fair and just game. The element of fun disappears when a player is faced with an opponent whose seemingly unachievable skills make the game feel hopeless.

Recently, someone on WormNET became more open about their reliance on a rope tool and confessed to a few players, who did not take it lightly—despite having shared countless hours of fun together. I don't believe canceling or shunning someone is the right approach, but I do understand why people react that way. It challenges their morals and their sense of fair play. At the end of the day, for me, it's all about fun, but for others, fun means fair competition. Ultimately, I think scripts should not be allowed in WA, but perhaps that's wishful thinking.

I know of both a cheater and a legitimate player whose roping skills appear nearly identical. I discussed these two with a friend who has played alongside them. I asked, "Which of the two looks legit to you?" My friend couldn't believe that either of them cheated. However, when I insisted that one did, he hesitantly guessed, "It's the cheater." His reaction was interesting—he simply couldn't believe it. Furthermore, he remarked that it was unnecessary for the cheater to use scripts because he was already good.

Of course, people who cheat and rely on it tend to lack a stable moral compass and ethics—though I could be wrong. If someone is okay with cheating in WA, what's stopping them from doing the same elsewhere? It speaks volumes about the kind of person they are. It also astonishes me how cheaters can rationalize their act of cheating and justify why they do it.

I have learned something disturbing: there are people in our community, even those of familiar status, who may be distributing the rope script cheat to those who express curiosity and admiration. If this is the case, what kind of morals and standards are we setting here? Should cheating be normalized, or should there be stronger opposition against it?
You may have noticed that I haven't mentioned any names. These are people I still enjoy playing with, and I don't condemn them for their ongoing actions. While I may not approve of it, it is what it is.

In case if you are not sure what cheat I am talking about, it's mainly rope cheats that automates your maneuvering and taps for you. I am not familiar with land cheat though.

This topic is about discussing cheats, understanding the motivations behind them, and questioning whether some past ropers may have used them—though I am open to being corrected.

So, what are your thoughts? Have you encountered players who cheat or have cheated? Are you a cheater, or have you ever cheated? Please share your thoughts.

give us names so we know who not to take seriously

they should not be playing league games

Quote from: TheWalrus on February 12, 2025, 02:45 AMgive us names so we know who not to take seriously

they should not be playing league games

I mostly play funners, and so does most of the people I play with too, Including people with ''super fast taps'' scripts. To Include their names would not do anybody good, but I am certain there are people who know people who cheats in ground and rope schemes. I simply wish to bring awareness to this ''supposedly'' taboo.

I don't think it is alright to distribute cheats between people, it could damage the reputation of WA. People's Integrity could be at jeopardy and challenged at some point, and WA could be the game known as cheaters paradise.

Of course I am strictly talking about casual games on WA.

There are barely 8–10 of us playing the same matches every day. If the goal is to ruin what's left, just start banning whoever you suspect. Or, you know, just play and relax. Speedruns are the only thing that stand out and pierces our bubble, and Mablak is the only one who even cares. I would understand all the concern if we didn't have players because of cheaters, but that's not the case here. So what's the big deal?

Sometimes I can't help but think that the only way to keep this place sane is to shut down the forum entirely and leave only the league. That way, people would actually play instead of ranting and whining. Or at least keep their drama confined to their own private message groups where it belongs.

Quote from: Kaleu on February 12, 2025, 04:34 AMThere are barely 8–10 of us playing the same matches every day. If the goal is to ruin what's left, just start banning whoever you suspect. Or, you know, just play and relax. Speedruns are the only thing that stand out and pierces our bubble, and Mablak is the only one who even cares. I would understand all the concern if we didn't have players because of cheaters, but that's not the case here. So what's the big deal?

Sometimes I can't help but think that the only way to keep this place sane is to shut down the forum entirely and leave only the league. That way, people would actually play instead of ranting and whining. Or at least keep their drama confined to their own private message groups where it belongs.

Do you think that my post exhibited ranting and whining? I think I came out fairly balanced and easy going in regards to what I wanted to say.

Indeed I do relax and have fun, Including with those that has scripts, so much is clear.

I just seek clarity and understanding of the morals behind cheating. I think TUS forums is fine for that.

What do you mean by that ''What's left?''. Perhaps what you are referring to ''what's left'' is of the league itself. There are very few people who plays the league, but the overall online activity is about the same 10-15 years ago if you check the steam charts. 

I don't think we should shut down the forums because we ask these types of questions. If you find yourself less sane because of the forums and perhaps some of the contents you see here, you could choose not to come read and participate.

TUS is the biggest forum since Team17 official one shut down. Forums are nice, many people are not active, but still use the forums only to read sometimes. I already used a lot of information in the forums as source to the history of this game in the wiki.

I was really getting into roping again then there was Shtaket who was caught cheating, then that Soul guy I enjoyed roping with started using some script for fast taps, he said it's being passed about and there was rumour that a few high end ropers were using the same thing and it just ruined it for me.

I have put a lot of hours into becoming as fast and good as I am, and to see other people achieve similar speed via cheating is just disheartening, there's no point playing with these people who can't be honest. I don't see the point playing with a bunch of cowards and cheaters. It's got to the point where I honestly don't know who to trust...

So yeah, got plenty of games to keep me busy and started getting into real life Darts again and plan on joining the local pub team, least you know there's no lowlife cheating scumbags there.

If you wanna do it in your own private time for fun fair enough but doing it alongside genuine players is pathetic, such a waste of human flesh honestly.

Is there a new script I don't know about? Because using the script I know won't make you a better player in any way. If you suck and don't put in the effort to learn rope, you'll keep sucking no matter what script you use. Stop fooling yourself with such nonsense.

The only real cheats are modules that reveal crate contents, expose inventories, and provide unfair advantages like permanent laser sight or the ability to see invisible worms (not counting offline cheats like XSpeed). Back in the day, cheats like these actually existed.

I know, must be frustrating to blow a fortune on top-tier hardware and still get outplayed by some random player with real skills.

Are you two done now? Can we please get back on topic?

Anyhow..

Dear reader, if you think cheating is ok or not on WA or in any online multiplayer game, then you are welcome to share your thoughts on it.

Also I have added a poll!

Quote from: Kradie on February 13, 2025, 01:58 AMAre you two done now? Can we please get back on topic?

Anyhow..

Dear reader, if you think cheating is ok or not on WA or in any online multiplayer game, then you are welcome to share your thoughts on it.

Also I have added a poll!

I'm fine with someone posting the roping script and people decide for themselves whether it's an gamebreaking advantage or not.
If you have a good keyboard it's the same IMO.

Cheating during league games is likely bad.  But, we can play devil's advocate for a minute. If your enjoyment of WA comes from your heightened abilities and you wouldn't play otherwise: maybe you're actually doing more good on the whole in 2025 by increasing activity of TUS.  For every game you play, someone else is also playing TUS. There aren't so many TUS players that we can assume they'd just play someone else if not with you.

But I think this "increasing activity" factor might only be positive if nobody ever suspects/catches you cheating.

In theory, by successfully cheating undetectedly, you are raising the (perceived) standard of competitive, legitimate play. This could be a good thing.  Whether this standards-raising is an overall-positive thing, though, might depend whether your competitiveness inspires more players to improve (in order to compete), or whether more people just give up and stop trying to compete.  It would also matter whether you encourage them to improve legitimately via practice, or whether you just encourage them to cheat themselves. 

If people know you're cheating then they might be more likely to cheat themselves, and in that case I'd guess that your cheating would be overall more bad than good. 

So if you want to be the most morally-righteous possible cheater, do the following:
1. Cheat secretly but fog everyone into thinking your performance is due to practice, lucky genetics and/or really nice hardware.
2. Talk trash about (historical) cheaters whenever possible, especially if your opinion might influence others not to seek ways to cheat.
3. Do not spread knowledge of ways to cheat, or of the existence of current effective cheating methods.
4. Warn about and exaggerate possible consequences of cheating -- a downwards spiral involving psychologists, depression, self-harm and loathing, loneliness and ultimately death.

Another factor to consider is how undetectable the cheat is and how well-known it is.  If the cat's already out of the bag (that effective undetectable cheats exist) maybe we can't go back to a trustworthy non-cheating league.  Depending how we answer some of the earlier questions, and if TUS and WA activity is considered the prime moral good (as it pertains to WA), maybe we're actually morally obligated to cheat our asses off in TUS matches.

Another thought experiment:  everyone loves talking about Olympics where steroids/PEDs are allowed. If cheating was legitimized by TUS or another league, and if that legitimacy would assuredly result in increased activity of WA and new heights of accomplishment, could it be a net good, as long as games were still a competitive measure of skill/strategy?  Would a cheating league be fun for people and actually improve activity?  Or is too much of the fun having an edge and not getting caught? 
To answer this:  No.  I think that a cheating league would be problematic because it's essentially an all-or-nothing proposition, all cheats allowed or no cheats allowed. Today's cheats might be relatively harmless tap-macros (they aren't), but tomorrow's cheats might give Komo-level bng skills and Mablak-level roping, or better.  We can't be assured that these league games would always remain a competitive measure of skill/strategy.  So, IMO, a league where all cheating is allowed is a terrible idea, at least long-term.  It was ultimately a wasted thought experiment but I've already typed it. And you've probably already read it anyway lol.

All of this until now has been about cheating in leagues, but what about funners?  I don't personally give a shit if people cheat in funners. However some of the above reasoning may apply to funners as well, and impact whether funner cheating is good or bad. 


Anyway, this is all conjecture, to spur discussion. I'm not committing to a side, just interested in the topic. Full disclosure- I have cheated in the long-ago past, including in league games at times. I don't personally feel very compelled by moral issues in general. Humans are a laughably insignificant part of the cosmos (whether there's life elsewhere or not), and morals are just an invention of that insignificance and a mechanism of power and control over said bullshit, like religion. That's beyond the scope here. Basically WA is an old game that I want to not die (and ideally to flourish), but beyond that I don't give a shit how people enjoy it. I gave up on the competitive side long ago and was never very good. Don't make this personal about me.

A final piece of devil's advocacy (which certainly never applied to me):  Whether you cheat or not, the few percent difference between "skilled" and "competitive" (including consistency) takes a ton of effort. Some successful cheaters have put way more total effort into WA than have some of the righteous lifetime-middle-skilled players who might complain about cheaters.  Reaching excellency in anything is admirable, even if it's cheating.  We shouldn't necessarily dismiss all cheaters as if they are trash, since excellency is its own virtue, and cheating may even have indirect benefits (if it's done deceitfully and hypocritically enough).

Kradie, I understand your indignation.
In an ideal world, players would be honest, but in the real world, we don't have full control over that. The most sensible way is for you to ignore and/or filter better who you play with.

Why not expand the discussion about cheating instead of reducing it to roping scripts? Let's talk about the clear water publicly available for download on a public page at https://worms2d.info/Water_color_editor ? And why does no one question the fact that a WA developer plays the Team17 crates scheme without seeming suspicious? I wonder if this is hypocrisy or collegiality.

Quote from: Corujão on February 13, 2025, 06:44 AMKradie, I understand your indignation.
In an ideal world, players would be honest, but in the real world, we don't have full control over that. The most sensible way is for you to ignore and/or filter better who you play with.

That doesn't mean we should accept and give in. We cannot control other people but we can control ourselves. I think it is better to choose what is right not what is convenient.

Quote from: Corujão on February 13, 2025, 07:15 AMWhy not expand the discussion about cheating instead of reducing it to roping scripts? Let's talk about the clear water publicly available for download on a public page at https://worms2d.info/Water_color_editor ? And why does no one question the fact that a WA developer plays the Team17 crates scheme without seeming suspicious? I wonder if this is hypocrisy or collegiality.

Roping script is a form of cheat due to its automation behavior, same with aim bot. Earlier today I had a game with a person and he said that ''Soul has given me reason to rope better'' or something like that. This person doesn't even realize that Soul uses rope script. Quite frankly I am a bit scared what his reaction will be when he learns the truth. He could probably embrace the convenience of automation. But the cheater's mind will rationale it, and say something like ''This script takes roping to next level, and it is more difficult''.

I wonder why this clear water is even available in the first place? It surely does make it more convenient to those who have it, compared to those that doesn't have it.

Are you Corujao, Implying that Deadcode is actively cheating because he is a WA developer? Could you perhaps go into some detail on this?

Somebody told me something on discord, something that I forgot that I once thought: If someone wants to cheat, they should tell that before the game start or during the game. But here is the thing.. If a person reveals they are cheating, who is to stop them to share their cheats?

It all boils down to the person's ethics. Ethics is derived from a person's real life and their uprising. I cannot cheat or use Innocent aids, because it would conflict with my ethics, I would feel guilty. It fascinates me (psychologically) that people chooses to cheat and rationales it, and it also makes me sad. But I cannot control them, but I can say my piece and hope they take some of the Info to heart.

It's an interesting topic but it feels a bit like screaming into the void. 

Sadly, cheating is always going to be a concern that everyone has to accept and move on.  Using tools that give a big advantage obviously isn't fair, but the person who uses them is kidding themselves; they know that they cheated and if they're serious about playing, their victory won't feel the same.  I like to think this puts prolific cheaters in the minority.

I suppose the elephant in the room is modules or loaders that hook the game's code.  The cheating possibilities here dwarf the concerns mentioned about roping.  Even anti cheat code in future updates could be patched out.  But it's not all bad; without gifted coders inspired to hack up WA and create dedicated cheat programs for fun we might not have Deadcode doing the great work he's doing with the game now.  Deadcode could have all manner of cheats running in his build during competitive games but I don't believe for a second that he does.

In general, not limited to just this game, cheaters are lowlife, scumbag, cowardly pathetic shells of a human husk and deserve everything bad that ever happens to them, period. In all walks of life.

Also, anyone who supports cheaters, or is too scared or hesitant to confront them, outcast them, ridicule them, because they are more worried about upsetting people... You're just as bad if not worse for being too weak and should feel ashamed. Somebody has to say it because we've lost our way and it's getting ridiculous again.

This community in general shows a lack of discipline and negativity towards cheaters, something which we used to actually commonly be against and stamp out swiftly.

This has always been my opinion and always will be my opinion, I hope everyone who cheats suffers in one way or another.

This is a hill I will glady die on.

I should also mention I'm strictly talking about people who cheat against other people, not people who like to cheat in single player games which legitimately have cheats in there for the purpose of creating other ways to play the game(I'm looking at you, Goldeneye 64). I'm talking about deception and deceit against legit players/people in a competitive environment.

I saw this on that WA 4chan page - I know Silkworm was Deadcode's cheat program back in the day, I'm not sure about this "Silkworm 2" though ?

https://i.4cdn.org/vm/1737530372982769.webm (https://i.4cdn.org/vm/1737530372982769.webm)

Noobs, honestly... They will remain pathetic cheating cowards until the day they die, and everyone will remember them for being a complete waste of time.

Quote from: Corujão on February 13, 2025, 07:15 AMWhy not expand the discussion about cheating instead of reducing it to roping scripts? Let's talk about the clear water publicly available for download on a public page at https://worms2d.info/Water_color_editor ? And why does no one question the fact that a WA developer plays the Team17 crates scheme without seeming suspicious? I wonder if this is hypocrisy or collegiality.

to be fair, t17 was dc's favorite scheme before he became a dev or developed programs for wa

I also don't believe for a second that Deadcode cheats. That is a crazy accusation.  He does have a extremely precise understanding about how everything works, easily better than the best NNN player.  So you're likely to witness many pixel-precise jumps, subpixel alignments of things, and you may get slapped with a time-expiring Homing Missile or random oddities you've never even witnessed before.  But it's all earned through years of self-torture lol.

Quote from: TheKomodoIn general, not limited to just this game, cheaters are lowlife, scumbag, cowardly pathetic shells of a human husk and deserve everything bad that ever happens to them, period. In all walks of life.

Scumbag? Sure.  Lowlife, sure.  Cheating probably has an overall harmful effect on something that is good, so it's a shitty and selfish thing to do.

Shell of a human?  Not really.  "Empty shell" applies to anyone who makes something insignificant the defining characteristic of their being and centre of their life.  It's not really related - some people just cheat because they don't give a shit and it's a shortcut to having skill, or they find it enjoyable.

Due to major misunderstandings (distortions): The community work that DeadCode does is indisputably exceptional and I believe that this is not the point of the discussion. I learned a lot from him, observing his skills in replays and even playing together in the Team17 scheme.

The main criticism is aimed at the pseudomoralists who are selective in their questioning rather than impartial. It is easy to dismiss legitimate concerns and label them as "crazy accusations" when they involve someone with high status in the community.

No one is saying that someone's skill was conquered illegally, but completely ignoring any possibility of advantage or special convenience is naive. This is not about frivolous accusations, but rather about reflect how supposed practices can be veiled and tolerated depending on who performs them.

It is known that cheating should not be relativized or encouraged, but I see that many people are limited in the interpretation of texts here or do so in a biased manner, distorting the narrative. Dramatic people and those exaggerating the seriousness of the game usually rely on long and endless discussions to appear more moralistic than others. Eventually, It's satisfying to see MonkeyIsland intervenes and removes responses when things get out of control.

And if anyone reading this feels offended by this statement, it's because the shoe fits.

For me, it is no longer worth fostering this discussion.

Quote from: Corujão on February 14, 2025, 05:39 AMDue to major misunderstandings (distortions): The community work that DeadCode does is indisputably exceptional and I believe that this is not the point of the discussion. I learned a lot from him, observing his skills in replays and even playing together in the Team17 scheme.

The main criticism is aimed at the pseudomoralists who are selective in their questioning rather than impartial. It is easy to dismiss legitimate concerns and label them as "crazy accusations" when they involve someone with high status in the community.

No one is saying that someone's skill was conquered illegally, but completely ignoring any possibility of advantage or special convenience is naive. This is not about frivolous accusations, but rather about reflect how supposed practices can be veiled and tolerated depending on who performs them.

It is known that cheating should not be relativized or encouraged, but I see that many people are limited in the interpretation of texts here or do so in a biased manner, distorting the narrative. Dramatic people and those exaggerating the seriousness of the game usually rely on long and endless discussions to appear more moralistic than others. Eventually, It's satisfying to see MonkeyIsland intervenes and removes responses when things get out of control.

And if anyone reading this feels offended by this statement, it's because the shoe fits.

For me, it is no longer worth fostering this discussion.

Sorry dude, my choice of words in "crazy accusation" was maybe not very thoughtful. I just meant that I strongly don't believe it to to be true, not that it's impossible.

Consider this:  when Deadcode's Silkworm 3.5 (private cheat version) was leaked, he countered with Silkworm 4.12 (anti-cheat version) which somehow disabled cheating features of Silkworm 3.5 for everyone in the game if anyone had 4.12 installed.  4.12 was also necessary for Windows XP/2000 compatibility so almost everyone had it.  Super slick and effective solution, all before he even got the source code and all for free. I'm sure it was a monumentally massive brain-splitting effort for him to do this.  Guy has devoted so much time to improving WA and preventing cheats that I just felt an obligation to defend him.  I can see your point about refusing to question certain members of the community, but c'mon it's Deadcode.

QuoteDramatic people and those exaggerating the seriousness of the game usually rely on long and endless discussions to appear more moralistic than others. Eventually, It's satisfying to see MonkeyIsland intervenes and removes responses when things get out of control.

Real.

I can never keep up with such level of mental exhaustion. That's how they win, by making you lose interest over mucho texto.

Upon reflection, we realize that all the opinions we have formed so far come from a single person who is extremely frustrated with the game (having not played it enough in the last 15 years) and traumatized in real life.

Everyone is accepting the narrative of a biased person who does not respect the historical facts of someone who has gone through this (which was me) and only spews hatred and dissatisfaction stemming from their personality.

Ideally, each person should test and draw their own conclusions, instead of believing in narratives from someone who didn't even have the capacity to test to form an opinion but relyng only in their feelings.

I see that there is one person who thinks it is okay to cheat, while the rest do not. This is just an observation.

If a person thinks it is acceptable to cheat in an online multiplayer game, then their ethical stance likely extends to real-life activities such as board games, card games, football, basketball, and more.

People who voted "No" in this topic surely have a stronger sense of ethics and a better moral compass. I can assume that people like this can enjoy video games, board games, and other activities by simply playing fairly. The moment someone introduces aids, cheats, or enhancements, it disrupts the integrity of the activity. The person engaging in such behavior might say, "Don't take it seriously." To begin with, I don't think anyone was taking it too seriously. However, the moment an anomaly was introduced by a third party, people naturally started to take issue with it. The perpetrator may perceive this as others taking things too seriously, but in reality, cheating is a serious matter. It is reassuring to see that most people have voted "No" so far.

Good, nice to see most people vote no even if they don't have the guts to call them out for it.

Cheaters are scumbags, period. Including those who try defending the fact they used to cheat.

I also love reading delusional comments that live outside reality, keep them coming lol.

Quote from: TheKomodo on February 14, 2025, 10:56 AMGood, nice to see most people vote no even if they don't have the guts to call them out for it.

Cheaters are scumbags, period. Including those who try defending the fact they used to cheat.

I also love reading delusional comments that live outside reality, keep them coming lol.

I also like that because I think I am part of your assessment 8)  :D 

I don't usually opine much about cheating after wkWormOrder issues. I like the concept of that module, but people are seeking for the first version of that module until today. It's a very small advantage that people could have writing on paper, but the community considers this cheating. I think what the community considers as cheating should always be respected. Although this community discusses for very minor details sometimes that I think it's sometimes unnecessary. For example I'm now experimenting a new medication for my ADHD. That medication can be considered dopping, maybe? I don't know. There are things that are out of our control, like using a ruler to aim on the screen. It's a matter to trust people or accept this.

I'm always against cheating, even on chess and board games. I'm just stating my opinion here, after Komito's post. But being against cheating is something so obvious, it's sad that there are people that don't understand this.

@FoxHound

I am against cheating as well, but only when it comes to obvious cheating modules/software, like crate spy, aim assist, etc.

My point is: I don't consider the rope script cheating because it's still up for debate. It hasn't been discussed thoroughly enough so far, most of you have just read the opinion of a frustrated community member instead of testing it yourselves. What Shtaket was using was probably a macro and not the script I'm referring to.

I stand by what I say. I will never back down from this, even if all of you call me a cheater (I'm not using it, by the way, you can check my replays as much as you want).
I consider the script an enhancement because the same results can be achieved with good hardware. Period.

If it bothers people, it's because they spent a fortune on hardware and are now upset that money alone isn't enough to take them to the next level.

If scripts and software are automated, it is cheat.

Keyboard is not automated unless software is Involved.

Everyone can get software to simulate what hardware can.

Simulating what hardware can do with software, is hack. Counter argument: Modifying keyboard is hack as well.

I have noticed now a trend. There is software, and there is hardware. Some think that software is not cheat, and that it can replace and simulate certain hardware capabilities. Just as much as hardware can do with software. BUT, here is thing.. When you engage with hardware, this require the physical you, your muscles and reflexes are in play. YES, I am aware of this argument ''Rope Script, can be very difficult and harder to master.''. However, automation/aid is still Involved, and you can acquire significant advantage once you fully mastered it. It is still not part of the game itself. It is like to bring drug enhancement to sport games and claim it is a new experience.

I hope Rocket can forgive me to Include him in my post but hear me out. As I gathered by online activities with Rocket, he does not have anything fancy hardware and equipment. He uses a very tired and aged laptop and still kicks ass, and does not use any script enhancing performance automation booster. Simply because he does not need it. You can make it big with 10$ keyboard cheaper or expensive.

To collect good hardware of whatever kind is just a hobby, part of an Interest of a person. This is normal. You may not have the greatest, but that does not mean you have to sink to the lowest.

Anything that emulates one physical action to one single keypress = legit.  Whether it's a button on your keyboard, controller, etc.

Anything that creates multiple inputs from just one action = cheating.  Whether it's a physical button on your keyboard or a macro.

WkKeyRemap (an old module) is considered cheating because it registers the next keypress before the previous key-up is received.  So you can have multiple spacebars and tap quickly without having to time your finger roll accurately. It's not a macro, just an oversight of the program author. Technically the action of pressing the key down and then back up are two distinct physical actions.

WkRemapKeys (current module) is legit because it discards multiple keypresses if the key is still in key-down state. Just like a real keyboard.

Wooting/fancy keyboards that have an intermediate stop on the spacebar, so a half-actuation presses space once, and a full actuation presses twice, are a grey area.  If you accept that one hard press = one physical action, it's cheating according to my definition above, because you get two physical inputs from one action. Maybe my definition is wrong.

Some cheats are worse than others.  WkWormOrder, transparent water/background soil, and arguably Wooting keyboards would be on one end of the villain spectrum, and advanced aimbots on the other end.  We really shouldn't vilify people equally.  Also frequency of cheating is another factor in one's level of villainny.

Lmfao, Kaleu the cheater is still fuming! :D  :D  :D

@j0e Yeah this is why I covered the wooting keyboards on my YouTube page to show people how advanced and OP they really are.

However, there are no rules to ban anything a wooting can do so far, so it's fair game.

The keyboard definitely gives me an advantage over any other keyboard, but I just don't play often enough anymore to really get the best from it.

If I had this keyboard "back in the day" I'd be even better than I was for sure, it's so much better than any other keyboard I've ever used and I have a pretty good collection now.

@Kradie
It's not automated. Stop making up for what you think it is, and try to KNOW how it works. How can you guys debate something if you are not willing to try it first??

@j0e Many advanced keyboards will do the same action. Are we considering them cheating apparel?

Quote from: Kaleu on February 15, 2025, 12:33 AMMany advanced keyboards will do the same action. Are we considering them cheating apparel?

"Cheating apparel" wouldn't be my choice of words -- that implies a moral wrongness to the product itself.  And you're kinda putting me on the spot, forcing an opinion.  But yes, I think:  if the game doesn't natively allow you to configure single actions to produce multiple inputs, then such keyboards should be considered illegal. 

These keyboards seem innocent enough with one extra incrementation, but it's a slippery slope.  If we allow those, what would disallow people from using keyboards where the keys have 100 mechanical increments, with a mechanical switch for each step, spaced 0.1mm apart? It would essentially be an analog rapid fire button.

What if you could configure how many of those 100 switches were actually active for each key?  Let's say you take the key apart and physically manipulate each of the 100 switches that you want to work or not work (for the sake of argument) to avoid similarities with macros (which everyone agrees are cheats).  You could make one key your shadow button (3 active switches), another key with all switches on (for easy scrolls), and so on. 

For morse code competitions (if they used keyboards) people could adjust the switches on/off in a pattern corresponding to dots and dashes so that one steady hard press would rapidly key their morse code ident or any predefined message.  Each keyboard button could have a different predefined message configured via said physical switches.  More realistically there are easily-imagined applications for any rhythm-based game.  I'm not much of a gamer so I can't really predict how it might be used exactly. 

Even if none of it was useful for W:A I doubt those keyboards would be allowed in any live videogame / morse competitive tournaments.

Quote from: Kaleu on February 15, 2025, 12:33 AM@Kradie
It's not automated. Stop making up for what you think it is, and try to KNOW how it works. How can you guys debate something if you are not willing to try it first??

@j0e Many advanced keyboards will do the same action. Are we considering them cheating apparel?

Hmm, such argument can be said in real life ''Hey bro, why don't you take this drug syringe? You will know how it works and It will help you run faster in sprint?''. If I heard this, my mind would Immediately reject it because it would be unethical. It would also be unearned and disrespectful for the actual people who does sprint. All these hours committed to the run would be challenged by people who took a shortcut. I don't like that.

Here's a different answer too. I do not need to know how it works. Why? I seen this in action too many times, and people have told me how it is. Some have even said it automates 50% at least for them! So there is some cheat injected!

If you play Counter Strike, and have enough passion, you would want better equipment. If you have a poor mouse, you try to save up for that instead leaning towards aim bot. If you have poor headphones, you would want better headphones, instead of acquiring wallhack!

Nothing is fair in life! I can totally understand that there are some parts of the world where it is difficult to get decent gear to keep up with others. So it makes sense to lean towards cheats to even the playing field and rationalize it. But there is no honor and integrity to do it this way.

Wait, so a player using hardware (a keyboard) that grants them an unfair advantage is not considered cheating in competitive games?  Anyone who thinks that this isn't cheating doesn't understand what cheating is.  Anyone who uses such a device in competitive games without announcing it first and having it agreed, is by definition a cheater.  And there's absolutely no difference at all between hardware and software performing the same 'cheat function' in this context.

Resorting to what is and isn't sanctioned in the competition rules as a defense is either a ploy to make a cheater feel better about their cheating, or it's just highlighting that the rules aren't sufficient to ensure fair play.

If people really want to get serious about fair play in a competitive game, all non-standard software and hardware in use should be declared at the start of the game.  That includes fancy keyboards, macros, all Wormkit Modules (including wkRempKeys) and any other external software.

I have a similar opinion about people who play at ridiculously high resolutions just because they have a wider monitor or multiple monitors. They have a significant advantage in schemes with big maps. That's why I don't like the idea of having big RR as a classic or competitive scheme at all. Maps should be the default size, with very few exceptions.

I gave up on learning and playing frequently Big RR because of this. I mean, it's not their fault for having better equipment. I think it was not debated enough if it would be fair for everyone before adding the scheme, it was just based on popularity.

Quote from: Kaleu on February 12, 2025, 04:47 PMIs there a new script I don't know about? Because using the script I know won't make you a better player in any way. If you suck and don't put in the effort to learn rope, you'll keep sucking no matter what script you use. Stop fooling yourself with such nonsense.

The only real cheats are modules that reveal crate contents, expose inventories, and provide unfair advantages like permanent laser sight or the ability to see invisible worms (not counting offline cheats like XSpeed). Back in the day, cheats like these actually existed.

I know, must be frustrating to blow a fortune on top-tier hardware and still get outplayed by some random player with real skills.

Back in the good days, the best players were that good because of their accuracy and flawless technique, not because of taps nor hardware - at least in South America since all we had was a cheap plastic keyboard.
Scripts for tapping faster are laughable and give almost zero advantages in a super competitive context. It's all about accuracy, good timing, quick thinking and the ability to handle a lot of pressure when you are in front of decisive turns facing top players knowing you need to be spotless.

In the highest heights of tus, what players had super fast taps and dominated the league? Barring Anubis I can't remember none from CF, cfc, Tag, ckc or dt.

Quote from: lalo on February 15, 2025, 08:21 PM

Quote from: Kaleu on February 12, 2025, 04:47 PMIs there a new script I don't know about? Because using the script I know won't make you a better player in any way. If you suck and don't put in the effort to learn rope, you'll keep sucking no matter what script you use. Stop fooling yourself with such nonsense.

The only real cheats are modules that reveal crate contents, expose inventories, and provide unfair advantages like permanent laser sight or the ability to see invisible worms (not counting offline cheats like XSpeed). Back in the day, cheats like these actually existed.

I know, must be frustrating to blow a fortune on top-tier hardware and still get outplayed by some random player with real skills.

Back in the good days, the best players were that good because of their accuracy and flawless technique, not because of taps nor hardware - at least in South America since all we had was a cheap plastic keyboard.
Scripts for tapping faster are laughable and give almost zero advantages in a super competitive context. It's all about accuracy, good timing, quick thinking and the ability to handle a lot of pressure when you are in front of decisive turns facing top players knowing you need to be spotless.

In the highest heights of tus, what players had super fast taps and dominated the league? Barring Anubis I can't remember none from CF, cfc, Tag, ckc or dt.

Zippo :)

If hardware is expensive, it is safe to assume in theory with all of its advancement in technology and built, it should be perform better. If a person acquire such high end hardware, he or she, may have significant advantage on paper. But in the end it depends on the person who are in control of the hardware. That is why I mentioned Rocket earlier. He runs his stuff on a poor setup but it is more than enough for him, and yet he is one of the better ropers around nowadays. Rocket clearly outranks me with my better setup, and perhaps others with similar setup. So Indeed, Lalo does speak truth that super fast taps is not everything. I cringe when people do super fast taps because they can't always keep up, and their speed is bad. However, the concern is when a person uses script and learns how to use it, and thus dramatically becomes better, perhaps exceeding others. They exceed others that has good or bad hardware.

I think that in esport tournaments, you are allowed to bring your own hardware, but macros or any other modification is not permitted. So if we use this as a template, then it is safe to say that scripts is not allowed in league games, which already is. That is why I am more lenient to people that wishes to use rope scripts in my rope games. That doesn't mean I like it.

In the hands of an average player, scripts that help you tap faster isn't going to help you against the best players in the world, but it can still give you a stability boost against players at a similar level. It's still cheating. It's also only cheating because we agreed it's cheating, we could easily one day just turn round and say "Ok, you're allowed to use scripts now". I guarantee if that's the case players would be able to make programs that improve everyones game.

But if you put cheats in the hands of the top players, those players are good enough that it gives them an edge.

Think of it like this... If you can rope well but can't tap super fast then you can still be a solid player. If you can tap super fast but can't rope well, then you're straight up bad. If you can tap super fast AND can rope well, then you have an automatic advantage over most players and your potential is automatically higher.

In theory the fastest tappers have the highest potential if they can master everything else because quite simply they can execute moves faster, this isn't rocket science it's basic facts. I'm not even talking about brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr script looking taps, I'm talking about Mablak kinda taps, if he wasn't as fast as he is he wouldn't be as good as he is, that's a fact, and he's EXTREMELY fast when you look at his quick double shot taps.

Hello!
This script demonstrates the rope mechanics that many have been curious about. It is designed to be efficient and easy to use.
Z, X = Space
If you need a customized version, feel free to contact us by email to request one for free!

*link removed*

Just avoid executing this stuff, for the sake of your safety.

Quote from: WormInjector on February 18, 2025, 08:37 PMHello!
This script demonstrates the rope mechanics that many have been curious about. It is designed to be efficient and easy to use.
Z, X = Space
If you need a customized version, feel free to contact us by email to request one for free!

*link removed*

Didn't work for me

Nvm, it's turned on and off by PageDown / PageUp

Quote from: Kaleu on February 18, 2025, 09:04 PM

Quote from: WormInjector on February 18, 2025, 08:37 PMHello!
This script demonstrates the rope mechanics that many have been curious about. It is designed to be efficient and easy to use.
Z, X = Space
If you need a customized version, feel free to contact us by email to request one for free!

*link removed*

Didn't work for me

Nvm, it's turned on and off by PageDown / PageUp

Just stop deceiving dude.

Link has been removed. Do not share scripts for roping.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on February 18, 2025, 09:41 PMLink has been removed. Do not share scripts for roping.

You need to edit quotes as well.

Quote from: lalo on February 15, 2025, 08:21 PM

Quote from: Kaleu on February 12, 2025, 04:47 PMIs there a new script I don't know about? Because using the script I know won't make you a better player in any way. If you suck and don't put in the effort to learn rope, you'll keep sucking no matter what script you use. Stop fooling yourself with such nonsense.

The only real cheats are modules that reveal crate contents, expose inventories, and provide unfair advantages like permanent laser sight or the ability to see invisible worms (not counting offline cheats like XSpeed). Back in the day, cheats like these actually existed.

I know, must be frustrating to blow a fortune on top-tier hardware and still get outplayed by some random player with real skills.

Back in the good days, the best players were that good because of their accuracy and flawless technique, not because of taps nor hardware - at least in South America since all we had was a cheap plastic keyboard.
Scripts for tapping faster are laughable and give almost zero advantages in a super competitive context. It's all about accuracy, good timing, quick thinking and the ability to handle a lot of pressure when you are in front of decisive turns facing top players knowing you need to be spotless.

In the highest heights of tus, what players had super fast taps and dominated the league? Barring Anubis I can't remember none from CF, cfc, Tag, ckc or dt.

I agree with lalo.
Zippo was using that script really well in my opinion.
Anyway it dosent make you better, natural timing its the best way.

Quote from: angus on March 12, 2025, 02:37 PMZippo was using that script really well in my opinion.

From what I seen he was useless with taps, he couldn't control them, he was like that fast skater in the mighty ducks who goes really fast then slams into the wall.

He was much better when he didn't spam the spacebar and controlled his tapping.

I didn't realize he was using a script though, looked more like fingerroll spam to me.

that script gives you some millisec of advantages, from a shot to another with fingerroll, you dont have to wait untill the second finger its up to shot the next rope. 
While with spacebar its one large button you have to wait the spacebar coming back and use the other finger, its another kind of timming.

Its not about fast roping, it helps you when you fail your finger timing.

Form me isnt not cheating but just a bit lame.

Im feeling cool with my spacebar i just bought the same kb i had back in the days

Looks like your playing the piano a bit

So zippo roping  was like this man play guitar

Quote from: lalo on February 15, 2025, 08:21 PM

Quote from: Kaleu on February 12, 2025, 04:47 PMIs there a new script I don't know about? Because using the script I know won't make you a better player in any way. If you suck and don't put in the effort to learn rope, you'll keep sucking no matter what script you use. Stop fooling yourself with such nonsense.

The only real cheats are modules that reveal crate contents, expose inventories, and provide unfair advantages like permanent laser sight or the ability to see invisible worms (not counting offline cheats like XSpeed). Back in the day, cheats like these actually existed.

I know, must be frustrating to blow a fortune on top-tier hardware and still get outplayed by some random player with real skills.

Back in the good days, the best players were that good because of their accuracy and flawless technique, not because of taps nor hardware - at least in South America since all we had was a cheap plastic keyboard.
Scripts for tapping faster are laughable and give almost zero advantages in a super competitive context. It's all about accuracy, good timing, quick thinking and the ability to handle a lot of pressure when you are in front of decisive turns facing top players knowing you need to be spotless.

In the highest heights of tus, what players had super fast taps and dominated the league? Barring Anubis I can't remember none from CF, cfc, Tag, ckc or dt.

100%.

Quote from: angus on March 13, 2025, 12:23 AMSo zippo roping  was like this man play guitar

No, because that guy can actually play the guitar that fast and control it flawlessly lol.

Quote from: j0e on February 14, 2025, 06:53 PMAnything that emulates one physical action to one single keypress = legit.  Whether it's a button on your keyboard, controller, etc.

Anything that creates multiple inputs from just one action = cheating.  Whether it's a physical button on your keyboard or a macro.

WkKeyRemap (an old module) is considered cheating because it registers the next keypress before the previous key-up is received.  So you can have multiple spacebars and tap quickly without having to time your finger roll accurately. It's not a macro, just an oversight of the program author. Technically the action of pressing the key down and then back up are two distinct physical actions.

WkRemapKeys (current module) is legit because it discards multiple keypresses if the key is still in key-down state. Just like a real keyboard.

Wooting/fancy keyboards that have an intermediate stop on the spacebar, so a half-actuation presses space once, and a full actuation presses twice, are a grey area.  If you accept that one hard press = one physical action, it's cheating according to my definition above, because you get two physical inputs from one action. Maybe my definition is wrong.

Some cheats are worse than others.  WkWormOrder, transparent water/background soil, and arguably Wooting keyboards would be on one end of the villain spectrum, and advanced aimbots on the other end.  We really shouldn't vilify people equally.  Also frequency of cheating is another factor in one's level of villainny.

Wanted to comment in this thread, but seems like j0e reads my mind in his free time.
You said it all man. Subject needed no further discussion after this post.

Quote from: Sensei on March 21, 2025, 02:47 AMSubject needed no further discussion after this post.

So anyone else that has an opinion or comment shouldn't be allowed to have their say? I wholeheartedly disagree.

At the end of the day "cheating" is subjective to the rules that whoever is in charge decides to implement.

One day all of the above might be considered legal, one day things that are currently legal may be illegal, so it's best to keep conversations like this open because as time flows everything changes.

Besides, these things are interesting to talk about, someone might come along and educate us further.

I am all open to all kind of arguments. One should not throttled anyone's opinion even if a subject seem to be concluded. You may not like or agree with an opinion but you will be Informed of a different stance, a stance that may or may not be familiar.

I wonder if in time the majority here will think it is ok to cheat in a online multiplayer game in the future though. So far only 2 people think it is ok. Kind of baffling if you ask me.

Quote from: Kradie on March 21, 2025, 02:27 PMI wonder if in time the majority here will think it is ok to cheat in a online multiplayer game in the future though. So far only 2 people think it is ok. Kind of baffling if you ask me.

Personally speaking, I always have and always will think cheating is for cowards and anyone who cheats should be dealt with swiftly and severely.

However, I am actually open to changing rules about what is and isn't cheating as long as the playing field is balanced and fair for everyone.

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 21, 2025, 02:13 PMSo anyone else that has an opinion or comment shouldn't be allowed to have their say? I wholeheartedly disagree.

Where did I say someone shouldn't be allowed to speak or have an opinion?
Would like to be informed when you find that part of my post.

Quote from: Kradie on March 21, 2025, 02:27 PMI wonder if in time the majority here will think it is ok to cheat in a online multiplayer game in the future though. So far only 2 people think it is ok. Kind of baffling if you ask me.

Seems like you are assuming 2 people think it is ok, the polls shows a different result

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 21, 2025, 02:33 PM

Quote from: Kradie on March 21, 2025, 02:27 PMI wonder if in time the majority here will think it is ok to cheat in a online multiplayer game in the future though. So far only 2 people think it is ok. Kind of baffling if you ask me.

Personally speaking, I always have and always will think cheating is for cowards and anyone who cheats should be dealt with swiftly and severely.

The wooting keyboard and further updated keyboards might be considered cheating by some, should we ban you forever?

Quote from: Sensei on March 21, 2025, 04:26 PM

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 21, 2025, 02:13 PMSo anyone else that has an opinion or comment shouldn't be allowed to have their say? I wholeheartedly disagree.

Where did I say someone shouldn't be allowed to speak or have an opinion?
Would like to be informed when you find that part of my post.

:D  :D  :D

No problem, here:

Quote from: Sensei on March 21, 2025, 02:47 AMYou said it all man. Subject needed no further discussion after this post.

It would be amazing if you could either:

1: Remember what you said.
2: Understand what you're actually saying.

Quote from: sock on March 21, 2025, 08:01 PMThe wooting keyboard and further updated keyboards might be considered cheating by some, should we ban you forever?

Who cares what other people think, as long as it doesn't break the rules of the competitive environment you're competing in.

If anyone has a problem with that, tough diddies.

If it ever became officially considered cheating, then I simply wouldn't use it. Either way I'm not a cheater, I always abide by the rules and the rules are more important than peoples feelings.

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 21, 2025, 09:38 PMIf it ever became officially considered cheating, then I simply wouldn't use it. Either way I'm not a cheater, I always abide by the rules and the rules are more important than peoples feelings.

AHK scripts use a faster response like the woot, yet they are considered cheating? Anyway it wasn't clear to me and some others that these scripts are considered cheats. I've used them in tus games 7 months ago and wkpin some weeks ago.I wasn't even aware wkPin and AHS were considered cheating until a few weeks ago after I looked it up with tus search

Quote from: sock on March 21, 2025, 10:27 PMAHK scripts use a faster response like the woot, yet they are considered cheating? Anyway it wasn't clear to me and some others that these scripts are considered cheats. I've used them in tus games 7 months ago and wkpin some weeks ago.I wasn't even aware wkPin and AHS were considered cheating until a few weeks ago after I looked it up with tus search

AHK scripts are nothing like the wooting. Do some research.

I didn't realize you're a cheater, or were a cheater. Either way it's your own fault for not doing research before using software/hardware.

I really didn't expect you of all people to turn out to be a cheater, wtf is happening in this community now.

Quote from: sock on March 21, 2025, 07:59 PM

Quote from: Kradie on March 21, 2025, 02:27 PMI wonder if in time the majority here will think it is ok to cheat in a online multiplayer game in the future though. So far only 2 people think it is ok. Kind of baffling if you ask me.

Seems like you are assuming 2 people think it is ok, the polls shows a different result

No.

Otherwise elaborate?

Quote from: Kradie on March 21, 2025, 11:16 PMNo.

Otherwise elaborate?

Sorry, I misread this!

Quote from: sock on March 21, 2025, 11:25 PM

Quote from: Kradie on March 21, 2025, 11:16 PMNo.

Otherwise elaborate?

Sorry, I misread this!

Focus Sock.

Quote from: sock on March 21, 2025, 10:27 PMAHK scripts use a faster response like the woot, yet they are considered cheating? Anyway it wasn't clear to me and some others that these scripts are considered cheats. I've used them in tus games 7 months ago and wkpin some weeks ago.I wasn't even aware wkPin and AHS were considered cheating until a few weeks ago after I looked it up with tus search

Not all AHK scripts are considered cheating. The ones that automatically release the previous key-down are considered as cheating. 7 months ago, what games were those? They need to be checked.

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 21, 2025, 09:38 PM

Quote from: Sensei on March 21, 2025, 04:26 PM

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 21, 2025, 02:13 PMSo anyone else that has an opinion or comment shouldn't be allowed to have their say? I wholeheartedly disagree.

Where did I say someone shouldn't be allowed to speak or have an opinion?
Would like to be informed when you find that part of my post.

:D  :D  :D

No problem, here:

Quote from: Sensei on March 21, 2025, 02:47 AMYou said it all man. Subject needed no further discussion after this post.

It would be amazing if you could either:

1: Remember what you said.
2: Understand what you're actually saying.

Am I missing something here? Still waiting for you to tell me where did I say people shouldn't have their opinions and be allowed to speak.

Stop with prejudices and assumptions. Doesn't look good

Perhaps,I have voted no,sorry.

Quote from: Sensei on March 22, 2025, 08:52 AMAm I missing something here? Still waiting for you to tell me where did I say people shouldn't have their opinions and be allowed to speak.

Yes, you are missing something however I'll walk you through it quickly:

Quote from: Sensei on March 21, 2025, 02:47 AMYou said it all man. Subject needed no further discussion after this post.

You specifically said "Subject needed no further discussion after this post."

The word "need" means - "a requirement, necessary duty, or obligation"

For example, humans NEED air to breathe, humans NEED water to survive, we cannot survive without it. Our planet NEEDS the Sun, etc.

Your words imply other people have a requirement, necessity, or obligation to speak no further in the post, simply because you dictated so.

So I came here to tell you that I disagree and explained why.

Quote from: Sensei on March 22, 2025, 08:52 AMStop with prejudices and assumptions. Doesn't look good

Here's the thing, on my side there have been no prejudices or assumptions, just a solid grasp of the English language and facts with evidence provided. You are the one who made the mistake.

I've explained this to you so that you understand it in future, I'm trying to help you improve. You never know when this knowledge may prove useful to you.

"Need no..." isnt equal to "i forbid".

Not in Komo's world :)

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on March 22, 2025, 07:06 AMNot all AHK scripts are considered cheating. The ones that automatically release the previous key-down are considered as cheating. 7 months ago, what games were those? They need to be checked.

https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-835/ This is the only one I recall that I used for sure. This one was over a year ago, I remember because I was testing it with AHK and without.

Quote from: XanKriegor on March 22, 2025, 03:14 PM"Need no..." isnt equal to "i forbid".

I never said it means "I forbid". I specifically quoted what you said, and gave you the definition of the word that is key in what he said.

It's like people here constantly use words and phrases and don't even understand what it actually means, and when someone tries to educate them, they go off the rails lmao.

Anyway to get back on track of the subject of the thread, this is aimed at Sensei, we'll talk about this as much as we want for as long as we want.

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 22, 2025, 06:09 PMAnyway to get back on track of the subject of the thread, this is aimed at Sensei, we'll talk about this as much as we want for as long as we want.

Well, we're all aware of that.. This thread will probably get to page 15-20 while most of the conversation would be you "educating" someone. And then it will get locked or forgotten.

All I've said is that j0e explained the situation very well and nothing more needs to be added. Imo (if I have the right to have an opinion, Komo!?), this thread should've been locked after j0e's post. But sure, go on :)

I don't think this thread need to be closed after Joe's post. Anyone has right to have an opinion. What I think could be better is that both Sensei and Komodo's post were deleted so that this topic could be more focused.  :)

Quote from: Sensei on March 22, 2025, 06:42 PMAll I've said is that j0e explained the situation very well and nothing more needs to be added. Imo (if I have the right to have an opinion, Komo!?), this thread should've been locked after j0e's post. But sure, go on :)

Exactly, you're sitting there making a statement that everything that could possibly be said has already been said, and nobody else that exists on this planet could possibly have anything useful to provide to the conversation, which is tyranical and delusional.

Why should the thread be locked? This is a healthy discussion about cheating and like I said there are others who may come along and wish to add to this and educate us all further.

I'm actually surprised you of all people are even suggesting to lock a thread like this considering how you reacted after Shtaket cheated against you in the Big RR Tournament and the fuss you made about it. I would have thought you'd want to do absolutely anything and everything possible prevent it from happening again.

Not to mention that everything joe said isn't even correct, regarding the wooting comment specifically:

"Wooting/fancy keyboards that have an intermediate stop on the spacebar, so a half-actuation presses space once, and a full actuation presses twice, are a grey area."

I have 2 wooting keyboards, the 60HE and the 80HE, I've even done lengthy reviews about both showcasing all their features and abilities.

You can't have it working in that way, you can have 2 separate buttons working that way, but not space twice in a row because he completely missed the part where the spacebar must be released before pressing it again.

So not only is your comment tyranical but you're actively supporting misinformation.

And don't take this personal Sensei, all I care about is the truth because I take cheating VERY seriously.

Fair enough. If what j0e said is wrong, I stand corrected for supporting it.
Still think he made most realistic and logical post on this subject.

By saying to lock a thread was more to point that further discussion is becoming obsolete. After all, in the end it will all depend on MonkeyIsland's decision on who to punish and for what. Also, nothing will even be done without DC's and CS's good will to detect cheaters and analyze their replays.


Don't know if TUS have a list of forbidden stuff to use in league games, but if it's not there yet, maybe MI should place it on some visible spot on site.

That's cool Sensei, I appreciate you owning up to that and hope there's no hard feelings, we're on the same side and I've always got your back if anyone treats you unfairly or tries to cheat against you. You know what lengths I'll go to help anyone against cheaters.

And there you go, your last sentence is actually a great idea! We should add a section to TUS with a list of forbidden programs, tools, software, etc.

If we locked the thread when you said, that idea wouldn't have be shared! :P

I'm very proud of you two, Sensei and Komodo. Despite your Indifference and squabbles now and then, you can find a common ground in the end.

In this topic ''Ideas for version 3.9 and/or 4.0 update/patch.'' I have suggested some counter measures against cheating, such as:

Disable wormkit module in host room.
Display what wormkit module user have loaded when they join a host lobby.
Competitive Mode Setting - Make all modified files in WA unusable.

But the feasibility to Implement it is questionable for someone like me without programming skills.

https://www.tus-wa.com/?msg=300399

Quote from: Kradie on March 23, 2025, 02:08 PMIn this topic ''Ideas for version 3.9 and/or 4.0 update/patch.'' I have suggested some counter measures against cheating, such as:

Disable wormkit module in host room.
Display what wormkit module user have loaded when they join a host lobby.

https://www.tus-wa.com/?msg=300399

What about Wormnat2 and Superfrontend? How will these work if you disable wormkit module?

Quote from: sock on March 23, 2025, 04:51 PM

Quote from: Kradie on March 23, 2025, 02:08 PMIn this topic ''Ideas for version 3.9 and/or 4.0 update/patch.'' I have suggested some counter measures against cheating, such as:

Disable wormkit module in host room.
Display what wormkit module user have loaded when they join a host lobby.

https://www.tus-wa.com/?msg=300399

What about Wormnat2 and Superfrontend? How will these work if you disable wormkit module?

They would be Implemented to WA by then..

Cheating is impraticable,but never cheating is my favourite opinion. I like some particularly shoots,unless playing a particolar game at bng. Cheat is only history,never the practice of worms armageddon for me. In this case, I voted no,again.

Perhaps you have your issues with Komodo, Angus. But calling him out in such hostile way may not prove fruitful, particularly in your quest to find out whether or not that Komodo uses cheats.. Also you posted 3 posts after your original post, you should maybe fix that.  8)

14000 posts is a lot and if we are to assume this current trajectory, Komodo would likely hit 30000 posts close to 2040. A lot of his posts are insightful for readers. If they contain a lot of text, you can use AI to summarize it in your own language.

@angus This kind of hostile talking is long expired here. Contribute to the thread subject maybe?

Kradie filled me in on what angus said so I'll just leave this here.

I showed Deadcode exactly how I play BnG and he wrote this in the Discord channel:

(https://i.imgur.com/03Tz21e.png)

The funny thing is, counting sprites is the only thing I've never bothered to do in BnG because my methods were always more accurate and useful anyway. But I do pay attention to the sprite and how the worm looks.

I measure my BnG based on full screen lengths because I play with 1152x864 resolution and always try to start off with a 3s grenade aimed at a full length screen because the worm and cursor has a distinct(to me) visual look so it's easy to tell if it's right. To get to that position I always move my cursor right to where it should go and have a really good eye for telling if that's correct.

Every shot I do, is based on that full screen distance, if the worm is closer or further than a full screen the aim is a little bit less or little bit more. I've put about 15k+ hours into BnG alone and because this game is based on incremental movements that all "slot" into place like a cogwheel it's pretty easy to tell your aim instinctually. If I miss, then it's usually only off by 1 or 2 notches at the most. So even if you aren't a counter in BnG like barman, Mablak, anubis, stylez, Darkz etc, it's not rocket science to realize your aim is off by the smallest amount you can move the crosshair.

Notch - The smallest movement possible.
Notching - Moving the cursor notch by notch.
Counting - Knowing that it takes X amount of notches to hit a worm based on the difference in distance between you and that worm and then "notching" to that position. THIS is the style that most players hate and are against.

Everybody notches and everybody is a notcher, but there are very few players who are counters.

But when someone says "They are a notcher!" they usually mean they are a counter. Counters are the players people usually hate playing against not people who naturally move in notches because it's impossible not to that's just how the game works.

The most important thing is knowing what type of shot to use, and being able to re-adjust if you miss.

The most controversial thing I ever did in BnG was apparently putting my thumb on the screen to re-aim.

I can say with pride that I've never cheated in BnG and grateful enough that a developer was there to defend me.

@angus It's nice to see your true colours though, one less person to give a fk about.

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 30, 2025, 03:56 PMone less person to give a fk about.

Classy

Quote from: sock on March 30, 2025, 10:27 PM

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 30, 2025, 03:56 PMone less person to give a fk about.

Classy

(https://cdn.vectorstock.com/i/1000v/53/21/smile-face-with-middle-finger-gesture-t-shirt-vector-40635321.jpg)

Shocking

(https://media1.tenor.com/m/iABbsYs2VU4AAAAd/cry-this-i-promise-you.gif)

Cry me a wall of text :D

Quote from: sock on March 30, 2025, 11:45 PMCry me a wall of text :D

(https://i.imgur.com/29WbT7x.png)

This meme is still as good as it was before :)

@MonkeyIsland ye not the best way to comunicate.


I know you dont aimbot that just too much for this game and ridiculous, just got angry because you said Shtaket cheat.
So how he cheat tell me.

Quote from: angus on March 31, 2025, 10:44 PMI just got angry because you said Shtaket cheat.
So how he cheat?

I said Shtaket cheated because he did in fact cheat. It was confirmed by CyberShadow, you can read more here:

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/(reminder)-using-any-kind-of-aids-is-forbidden-on-tus-37291/

What we know for sure, 100%, is that Shtaket cheated, however developers won't share HOW they caught the cheaters because if they shared that information it would only help cheaters hide the fact that they are cheating.

Rumor has it though, that Shtaket was using scripts/macros, the same thing Corujao uses except Shtaket was using it more subtly, but still got caught.

I don't understand angus why you get angry at me for helping to catch cheaters?

(https://i.postimg.cc/sgjsjCMG/Cheaters-deserve-to-die-scoundrels.png)

Wow Corujao, you believe cheaters should die? That's a bit harsh.

I think cheaters should be severely punished but I don't believe they should die, you've taken that a bit too far Corujao.

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 01, 2025, 02:31 PMWow Corujao, you believe cheaters should die? That's a bit harsh.

I think cheaters should be severely punished but I don't believe they should die, you've taken that a bit too far Corujao.

For a while I thought you shared such thoughts. I am glad I am no longer confused.  ;D

Quote from: Kradie on April 01, 2025, 03:50 PM

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 01, 2025, 02:31 PMWow Corujao, you believe cheaters should die? That's a bit harsh.

I think cheaters should be severely punished but I don't believe they should die, you've taken that a bit too far Corujao.

For a while I thought you shared such thoughts. I am glad I am no longer confused.  ;D

No, I said cheaters are scum and should be severely punished and permenantly banned, I didn't say they should die. That's what Corujao said.

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 31, 2025, 10:53 PM

Quote from: angus on March 31, 2025, 10:44 PMI just got angry because you said Shtaket cheat.
So how he cheat?

I said Shtaket cheated because he did in fact cheat. It was confirmed by CyberShadow, you can read more here:

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/(reminder)-using-any-kind-of-aids-is-forbidden-on-tus-37291/

What we know for sure, 100%, is that Shtaket cheated, however developers won't share HOW they caught the cheaters because if they shared that information it would only help cheaters hide the fact that they are cheating.

Rumor has it though, that Shtaket was using scripts/macros, the same thing Corujao uses except Shtaket was using it more subtly, but still got caught.

I don't understand angus why you get angry at me for helping to catch cheaters?

So hes using macros while roping?

Quote from: TheKomodo on March 31, 2025, 10:53 PM

Quote from: angus on March 31, 2025, 10:44 PMI just got angry because you said Shtaket cheat.
So how he cheat?

I said Shtaket cheated because he did in fact cheat. It was confirmed by CyberShadow, you can read more here:

https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/(reminder)-using-any-kind-of-aids-is-forbidden-on-tus-37291/

What we know for sure, 100%, is that Shtaket cheated, however developers won't share HOW they caught the cheaters because if they shared that information it would only help cheaters hide the fact that they are cheating.

Rumor has it though, that Shtaket was using scripts/macros, the same thing Corujao uses except Shtaket was using it more subtly, but still got caught.

I don't understand angus why you get angry at me for helping to catch cheaters?

Lol what the f@#! a macro can advantage you while roping?
Probably only in big rr scheme maybe? That sux? Back in the days only noobs was playing it?It was tower race ?
Who f@#!ing cares.

Tell me how he can rope better than us in ttrr or roper or wxw with macro.
I just want understand the way of cheat, im not getting angry on yo komo.
THeres a kind of thread dated 2011.

And back in the days alot of players on tus was using macro on hysteria, like lots of players was using a famous AHK

@angus most of the people will use roping cheat in a harmless way. They just look like clowns while spamming spacebar in unnatural manner while not getting any advantage from it. Although, there are serious ropers that would use script in a way to gain edge over others. Gaining edge in terms of getting through map faster in occasions where most non-cheaters will lose momentum. Shtaket used this cheat against me in cup game few months ago (and probably lot of other games). "Trained" eye can notice these perfect momentum gaining during his turns. Non-ropers probably wouldn't. That replay was sent to devs and they determined he indeed cheated. Don't know if that replay is still visible on tus, but you can check it yourself and then come and give your opinion about it being legal or not.

Quote from: angus on April 06, 2025, 03:42 AMLol what the f@#! a macro can advantage you while roping?
Probably only in big rr scheme maybe? That sux? Back in the days only noobs was playing it?It was tower race ?
Who f@#!ing cares.

Tell me how he can rope better than us in ttrr or roper or wxw with macro.
I just want understand the way of cheat, im not getting angry on yo komo.
THeres a kind of thread dated 2011.

And back in the days alot of players on tus was using macro on hysteria, like lots of players was using a famous AHK

In my opinion, your average player who uses macros is not going to get any distinguishable advantage, as they haven't reached the top echelons of rope skill in the first place to take advantage of the speed macros/scripts provide.

It's like the Wooting keyboard I have, being able to set the actuation point and rapid trigger actuation so low is only beneficial if you're actually fast enough to use it and have the hand-eye coordination to control it.

There's very few players who would benefit from macros/scripts.

However, and this is the most important reason, in my opinion. If we were to make macros/scripts legal, then more people would find ways to make them more powerful and easier to use for the average player since you wouldn't have to worry about trying to hide it.

Also, I am aware of players using AHK in Hysteria, it happened against me in a TRL Season many years ago.