WA is on life support

[ShyGuy]

I think these numbers speak for themselves in regards to WA online player activity.
https://steamcharts.com/app/217200#7d

keep in mind that these numbers are only for steam users, and it doesn't matter if they are connected to wormnet or not, they may as well be idle in the main menu. you also need to add up data from before August 2012, as well as CD and GOG releases, and any potential pirates

Even if you grant they are steam users, that doesn't cut against Kradie's objection to Skunk. 

Skunk said the game is slowing to a trickle compared to what it once was. Kradie's graph showed upward trending activity over time, although it looks like it's going through a slight downswing right now.

Suggesting users could be idle in menus and that affecting the data doesn't go through as an objection, either.  You'd have to consistently levy that factor across the data and explain why people are hardly ever idle in menus (when the graph shows low activity) and why people are routinely idle in menus (when the graph shows high activity). Good luck showing an argument for that intuition lol. If idle menu time was controlled for I see no reason why we wouldn't suspect the activity data on the graph to still trend upward.

Unless there's better data out there, seems like Skunk's claim is obviously false, unless your notion of "slowing to a trickle" is actually "trending upward".

And by the way, that's ^ compatible with the claim that activity overall is lower than what it was pre-steam prime era. But Skunk specifically made a claim about the direction activity is trending.

[Squirminator2k]

Something to consider also is that with a lot of countries relaxing their COVID protocols, a lot of people might now be going out to bars, pubs, parks and just generally socializing in a way they haven't been able to for a year and a half. I expect most games have taken a bit of a hit of late (though they'll be back soon, for a number of reasons).

[TheWalrus]

As someone who has previously forecast the death and downturn of worms years ago, I must say wa has far outlived my projections.  Although there is little to no actual growth, and a downturn in community engagement, activity on the server is still quite good.  NA activity hours is quite dead, however, and that’s when I would play typically, so I could see how skunk would feel the game is dead.  Euro (peak) hours seem to still be really active. 

[Lupastic]

As someone who has previously forecast the death and downturn of worms years ago, I must say wa has far outlived my projections.  Although there is little to no actual growth, and a downturn in community engagement, activity on the server is still quite good.  NA activity hours is quite dead, however, and that’s when I would play typically, so I could see how skunk would feel the game is dead.  Euro (peak) hours seem to still be really active.

^ with this, I agree. walrus and me were talking about playing some tus matches but we just keep avoiding each other, the usual time he is online, all the EU countries are long asleep already : > and vice versa the days and nights.

you NA people are missing a lot of activity and players there..

[Lupastic]

and by the way in my opinion, the only thing that makes this game truly dead at the moment, is the childish-toxic behavior of immature pathetic 30-40 years old men that we have around. we have tonnes of people playing this game still, however in the past few weeks I started to understand and see clearly why hundreds of players have already quitted this game (and this community, and the tus leagues) in the past few years and I'm not even wondering why they did so..

[TheKomodo]

NA activity hours is quite dead, however, and that’s when I would play typically, so I could see how skunk would feel the game is dead.  Euro (peak) hours seem to still be really active.

Do you think that has anything to do with American young culture? It seems to me that younger gamers from America are more prone to 'popular culture' than places such as Eastern Europe and Southern America, and maybe that a 22 year old game is simply "sad" and "lame" to them? Kinda like how kids are usually embarassed or put off by their parents fashion and music tastes lol.

You know what i'm getting at lol?

[TheWalrus]

NA activity hours is quite dead, however, and that’s when I would play typically, so I could see how skunk would feel the game is dead.  Euro (peak) hours seem to still be really active.

Do you think that has anything to do with American young culture? It seems to me that younger gamers from America are more prone to 'popular culture' than places such as Eastern Europe and Southern America, and maybe that a 22 year old game is simply "sad" and "lame" to them? Kinda like how kids are usually embarassed or put off by their parents fashion and music tastes lol.

You know what i'm getting at lol?

I agree to some extent, I just think the average attention span of a USA teenager is tiny.  There hasn’t been a single NA player come up and become really good in a long long time, despite USA representing a large sect of online gamers.  There are an incredible amount of choices, and it seems people don’t have the patience to meet the worms learning curve.  The only good NA wormers (shyguy, wza, saltyk9, Mablak, etc) all picked this game up 10+ years ago. 

Also I think a good point to be made is that many players we see play this game because of inferior hardware, whereas USA players have typically benefitted from better and more available hardware components and thus playing newer games. 

[biscojoe]

i've been around... roping with skunk a few games.... kradie kicks me from his roper games....
i'll dl snooper and idle it
but yea most of the time i'm playin series x or csgo/watchin twitch idk lol

[Kradie]

There's been many Death of Worms Armageddon threads here on TUS, and oddly enough I don't think I ever related to this idea that WA online is dying.  Just Imagine if all of the lurkers here on TUS, discord, and snooper, would just get online on Wormnet to host or look for games. But Instead I think they might spend their time looking for 1 or 2 particular people to arrange and play with.

[MonkeyIsland]

@biscojoe and @Kradie, I've deleted your last posts. Please keep the forums clean.

[Godmax]

The mole and mole forts culture a la 3 pizza Danger is very much alive!

[Memox]

I think it's partly because of me but I feel the same way and even started to play offline more often because it's much easier to start playing.
Sometimes it's boring to play for fun with randoms or league with the same handful of players. Hundreds of players that I loved to play with left and that's why it feels so empty.

Lately I've been playing offline too, a lot. I can find games just fine (not easily like, say, two years ago, but not that rarely either), but it's more than not either Kaos, Shopper, rinse and repeat. I'm getting bored of that... Let's play together sometime and not just play at the same time, alone! 

[skunk3]

I log on to WormNET at all times of day and never see much activity. Obviously, I am not saying the game is completely dead, but it is far from active IMO. Most of the time, the user count in AG is in the 40's or below, and as before, half (or more) of that number tend to be snoopers or bots and of the people who are actually in AG looking for a game, the vast majority of them are no-name noobs... and I am not saying that to be a jerk about things at all. It just is what it is and I am basing this on my own personal experience only. WA definitely saw a bit more activity last year thanks to the update and Covid, but the update didn't have the effect that many of us hoped, which is bringing long-time players out of hibernation. I don't think that WA will truly die anytime soon, but it's definitely not growing regardless of what those bogus Steam stats say. This game is old and niche and I can understand that. I'd be willing to bet that most 'gamers' don't really have an interest in playing something this old when there's shiny new stuff to sink time into on PC and consoles. I've been around as long as anyone in this game (literally day 1) and I have seen this game through every transition. Right now it is stagnant as f@#! and things are looking bleak to be honest. I used to get annoyed by AG being spammed by people looking for ranked games and clanners and now I'd kill to have that scene back. I miss the days when it was so busy that RH and AG both would be packed full of people arranging games. I guess I wouldn't care as much if I could only find some newer games that I actually want to play but I've come to realize that most modern games bore me or at best tend to have very limited replay value. I want the old schoolers to come back and start playing again and I want the people who lurk to actually play because I'm not trying to play shoppers and "normal" (f@#! off) and kaos with rando noobs lol. It's just not fun. Also, the vast majority of these newer players can't rope worth a f@#! so there's no challenge there either.

[TheKomodo]

Worms Armageddon is active enough, it might not be what you specifically want, however it's still active and highly competitive with great players.

The Intermediate community is thriving right now, CWT/ONL and those 80hp scheme Tournaments I was doing recently were awesome, Mole Shoppers are very popular and having a healthy amount of competition in various events(some hosted outside of TUS as well), there has been a few Hysteria Cups that were very active and organized.

You could always work your way through the TUS Big RR Challenges and see how you stack up against everyone else. Shtaket beat 6 of Mastas records earlier this year!

Whenever i've been online for a game, there has no issues finding people to play with using the schemes I enjoy, there were also some Challenges I done myself!

There is always something to do in this game, if you can't find it, it's your fault tbh. You're pretty fussy with what you play and who you play it with, that doesn't help your situation.

[skunk3]

Worms Armageddon is active enough, it might not be what you specifically want, however it's still active and highly competitive with great players.

The Intermediate community is thriving right now, CWT/ONL and those 80hp scheme Tournaments I was doing recently were awesome, Mole Shoppers are very popular and having a healthy amount of competition in various events(some hosted outside of TUS as well), there has been a few Hysteria Cups that were very active and organized.

You could always work your way through the TUS Big RR Challenges and see how you stack up against everyone else. Shtaket beat 6 of Mastas records earlier this year!

Whenever i've been online for a game, there has no issues finding people to play with using the schemes I enjoy, there were also some Challenges I done myself!

There is always something to do in this game, if you can't find it, it's your fault tbh. You're pretty fussy with what you play and who you play it with, that doesn't help your situation.

"Active enough" is completely subjective I guess. It's not active by my definition of of the word at all (or historical WA notions of what active means), and it's only even somewhat "active" at very specific times of day - basically evening in most of Europe. At just about any other time it's pitiful. (The time of this post, for example.)   

I have no interest in working on challenges. If it's not an actual online match vs. a real person I can't be bothered. Playing the same map offline over and over again trying to get a perfect run is not my idea of a fun time (not to mention I'm sure it would destroy my hands), but kudos to people who enjoy that sort of endeavor. I'm also not fussy regarding what I play or who I play with. There's some schemes that I won't bother playing, but most of those are schemes that never get hosted anyway, like bungee race or something equally stupid. I also don't want to play with noobs who have no idea what they are doing. I don't mind taking the time to teach newcomers who have questions, but trying to enjoy a good match full of noobs and quitters quickly gets tiresome and I think most would agree.

I guess I also don't want to take the time to involve myself with various forums and groups just to be able to set up good matches. I've never been much for forums or even leagues. I can't remember the last time I checked the CWT or ONL corner of the internet. I barely check TUS. I just want there to be quality players in AG when I log on, ready and willing to play. Of course I know that is a lot to ask for these days but a man can dream. My experience lately with WA has been pretty boring because I can only occasionally get on during 'peak hours' because of work, and when I have a day off, the last thing I want to do in the middle of a nice summer day is sit on my ass indoors in front of a computer screen. I'll just continue to log on when I am able and hope for the best.