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who won yersterday MM and Elite ?  ;)

Quote from: Dmitry on August 01, 2013, 03:11 AM
who won yersterday MM and Elite ?  ;)

elite -> I was 3rd and gone sleep and Daina and Twyrfher played 3rd game of final (3 way final)

I won MM and Daina Elite.

Twas AeF day  :D

vgj, AeF  ;)

lol yesterday at ploop war tourney me and Orel lost in 2nd round against Dmitry & Rocket... 10 min later I lost energy for 1 hour or longer xD I think i'm happy coz we lost xDDDDD coz anyway i could be out xD

lol was interesting in plop won ur and Gadzet  :P

Amount of players on TOP-5 WO clans
1. TaG   8 players
2.  che   9 players
3. UC   9 players
4.  sX   2 players
5.  AeF     7 players

xDd

better:

1. TaG   8 players 19 medals/51tourneys
2.  che   9 players 12+3(not finished tourneys plop/kami) medals/61tourneys
3. UC   9 players 8 medals/46tourneys
4.  sX   2 players 9 medals/36tourneys
5.  AeF     7 players 5 medals/14tourneys

UC didnt finish plop war tournament too ;) AKT in final.

https://www.tus-wa.com/files/file-457/#file-editor
today ssr, just look that... 1st round with Gadzet xDDDD
4:12

lmao omg  ;D

Tomorrow at 13gmt: KAOS NORMAL TOURNEY http://wormolympics.com/t1098

Join join join join

www.wormolympics.com

 yoo

http://wormolympics.com/t1197 

1st ever tourney by Chelsea !!

Hysteria 3vs3 !!!

I hope we will have 12 teams (36 players) but if not we will start with less teams and won't be medal points. I won't chnange it to 2vs2 or 1vs1 !

28th August? wow xD

aAa`Asbest`LoF> wtf
** VoK`TdC ** joined the channel.
** VoK`TdC ** has left WormNET (Joined Game).
* MODHurz Round 2: Vok VS wormystormy; reN VS pepa; PyroMan VS Incog; NeiruZ VS Alien; Asbest VS Balee VS Hurz *
aAa`Asbest`LoF> someone should get free round
Balee> Come come! :)
rA`NeiruZ`LoF> wher is alien?
>> Alien hosted a game (rA`NeiruZ`LoF).
aAa`Asbest`LoF> i dont agree at 3 way
pepa> k
Balee> It's all the same, Asbest, chillax!
aAa`Asbest`LoF> stfu retarded piece of f@#!ing hanguarian shit

Really...
Last year I argued about this with... DarkOne? or it was FFie? Either way, how are these kind of players allowed to play in such a tournament? Its good because people like MonkeyIsland, trying to improve Worms-world with threads like this one (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/tus-current-state-and-your-help-17836/) that I have been seeing a lot lately... get screwed because, in the other hand, we got people like Asbest playing out there.

I know that I should chill and etc, but this guy pisses me off because he plays 24 hours per day 7 days a week, insulting everyone and doing whatever he pleases in wormnet. I had a friend named HCKTROX, and he got banned (in wormnet, via IP, he couldnt use websnoop neither, or atleast that's what he said back then) for reasons I dont know... but he never had this kind of behavior in any game, and we even taught some people the basics for online gaming. And this guy, Asbest, he's still there? When I talked to FFie last year, I am sure she had in mind an idea for ''banning'' people from playing... I dont work with them (WO organizers), I dont help them (and I dont play now) but, come on, what's this? I just copied an example...

This community can improve a lot if we get this kind of people out of the way, I know I havent any right to say anything, Its just my opinion and none of you should agree with me, but I am still here to take a look at the game, the server and giving my opinion to make it better. I am not toxic anymore.

I hope I dont get a warn for this, I tried to be polite and avoid insulting.

darts?

what Im afraid of its when asbest get paired with newcomers and insult them whole game, thats forcing new players to quit this game right after they started to play it

gabriel +1

+1 Gab indeed. That guy even insulted FFie and his partners. He said AKT is noob, even they won gold at plop war together.

Well, he's banned from any Tournament/event I will host, well, forever, or at least until he acts like a human.

No explanation needed, you all know why.

I always kicked asbest's ass from everything, from sX clan, from my tourneys, even banned him on wa-mems xD so thats obvious i become his main target in wormnet, however i cant explain one thing, i would never believe before playing W:A online that a real human can waste whole his day spamming your snooper with insults like that
(http://tau.rghost.ru/47968804/image.png)
Just imagine! around 20 hours all you do is eat, visit toilet and spamming someones snooper. 20 hours. Needless to say I had him on ignorelist most of this time so I dont even know what did he write to me, however snooper beep'd for 20 hours and ive been wondering how much this guy can handle? is that some kind of marathon or something?
since then i had no probs with him, he just spammed my snooper hour by hour, 24/7, every month, for 3 years. Sometimes I unignore him for a short amount of time and trolled but that was a very rare situations when I was really bored xD
So yea all was fine but once WO starts and you talking with someone asbest always spamming and dont let you really get the point of what you wanted to know, its pretty hard to ignore, he actually insults after each phrase I write on wnet

But then one flashback pop-up in my mind! When asbest played on sX and I controlled him (didnt let him insult anyone as he does now) he considered me as a friend and sometimes between his stupid how to install rubber etc, he asked me for a tips about thing that goes on his life

And so one day he come back from school and asked what he have to do, he had fought with his classmates, girls saw that, and this happens all the time on his school

I dont know if kids beat him because he insults, but Im sure in one thing, he insult on internet because kids beat him!
So yeah, everytime he insult me I just keep in my mind that summer is the only time when kids doesnt kicks his ass everyday and he have to spend his time at something while he hiding at his house, so I even feels sorry for him each time he insults me, thats nice way to ignore him x)

Quote from: Gabriel on August 07, 2013, 07:20 PM
aAa`Asbest`LoF> wtf
** VoK`TdC ** joined the channel.
** VoK`TdC ** has left WormNET (Joined Game).
* MODHurz Round 2: Vok VS wormystormy; reN VS pepa; PyroMan VS Incog; NeiruZ VS Alien; Asbest VS Balee VS Hurz *
aAa`Asbest`LoF> someone should get free round
Balee> Come come! :)
rA`NeiruZ`LoF> wher is alien?
>> Alien hosted a game (rA`NeiruZ`LoF).
aAa`Asbest`LoF> i dont agree at 3 way
pepa> k
Balee> It's all the same, Asbest, chillax!
aAa`Asbest`LoF> stfu retarded piece of f@#!ing hanguarian shit

Really...
Last year I argued about this with... DarkOne? or it was FFie? Either way, how are these kind of players allowed to play in such a tournament? Its good because people like MonkeyIsland, trying to improve Worms-world with threads like this one (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/tus-current-state-and-your-help-17836/) that I have been seeing a lot lately... get screwed because, in the other hand, we got people like Asbest playing out there.

I know that I should chill and etc, but this guy pisses me off because he plays 24 hours per day 7 days a week, insulting everyone and doing whatever he pleases in wormnet. I had a friend named HCKTROX, and he got banned (in wormnet, via IP, he couldnt use websnoop neither, or atleast that's what he said back then) for reasons I dont know... but he never had this kind of behavior in any game, and we even taught some people the basics for online gaming. And this guy, Asbest, he's still there? When I talked to FFie last year, I am sure she had in mind an idea for ''banning'' people from playing... I dont work with them (WO organizers), I dont help them (and I dont play now) but, come on, what's this? I just copied an example...

This community can improve a lot if we get this kind of people out of the way, I know I havent any right to say anything, Its just my opinion and none of you should agree with me, but I am still here to take a look at the game, the server and giving my opinion to make it better. I am not toxic anymore.

I hope I dont get a warn for this, I tried to be polite and avoid insulting.

you are not alone gabriel and thank you for your post about asbest,
because you are right about him and you told that you talked with d1 or ffie about it last year.
not much really happened so far,
but at least asbest got banned permantly from tus now, afaik.
we all love worms and we all don't want such a behaviour,
neither in wormnet, nor here at tus.. or do you want that ?
jokes are jokes, as long it is meant to be like that,
but to harm the community is another thing.
if you guys think, we couldn't get over his daily nonsense insults.. you are wrong.
we literally give a f@#! about him and his behaviour.. laugh about it,
but we are not willing to respect that.
if you do that okay, but i am saying my opinion like gabriel.
we all can say our opinion about whatever we want,
but insulting others like a little kid, shouldn't be allowed.

think about it, please.

Can't we just ask CyberShadow or DeadCode to actually ban him from WNET?

It seems this guy is very abusive to almost everyone on WNET - He doesn't belong there, some people are really bothered by him, and he ruins their fun.

totally agree with Gabriel, with Impo.
Such people should be banned from wormnet for a month, then for a year, if that will happen again.
That kind of bans is well-known practice at all kind of online games. Asbest insults me aswell, everytime i talk at channel where he also is. Sometimes he do that in pm. I don`t keep that serious and closing eyes on his words. But fact is a fact. He is not only insulting by spelling bad words, he also thinks he is some kind of almighty god and if he not agree with some rule, he will not do anything, will spend hours and insult everyone coz that, untill he agreed/banned/kicked etc. He make people wait 20 mins just becouse he wants that.
so... its not even an "ask", its a "need" to ban him, in my opinion.
When people will get ban from wormnet per months or per years - that will make server clear or that kind of agressors. Becouse when some1 got banned - not only he will learn that lesson. But everyone will.

same things happened with me too.
i got him on ignore everywhere i see him.
i kick him from my hosts.
i refuse to list him in at w:o tourneys i host.
kinda my personal ban.

he stole a lot of our time yesterday by claiming the win against ren so ren had to upload replays to proove his victory.
it may be some work to ban him from wn but at least we can spread the personal banning thing, like, tell evryone who dont know about that behaviour.
i usually keep it like pyro does, just ignore the insults and dont answer ( no more words rofl) but as a mod i couldnt just say hes lying anyway when 2 ppl say they win even if i was sure it was asbest who lied.

lol @ "Nico insulting", I was there, not sure if was that tournament when you were kicking Nico (your opponent) from the host several times, and hosting saying "f@#!ing chillians" and stuff, what do you expect? "please host dear and lovely Asbest"? Actually I warned you like 3 times on that tournament. I remember that I said on another tournamente "you can say shits on my tournaments! yeah!" or something like that, but there's a difference between someone who's clearly joking (like I was and like I'll be) and another who's only trying to play friendly and having some fun on WO.

Actually, let me paste here some log's, gimme a minute, I'll edit this post.

Edit: here some short examples:

Quote[21:30] <Asbest`LoF> so kicks allowed too?
01[21:30] <MODxNRRoper> ALL
[21:30] <NiCo> pf..
01[21:30] <MODxNRRoper> NO RULES
[21:30] <Asbest`LoF> cool
...
[21:30] <NiCo> no deja de klikeamor //Twy's comment: that means "he's not stopping to kick me"
[21:30] <Asbest`LoF> i own nicos ass
02[21:30] * Bry4N`TaG has quit IRC (Hosting a game: Bry4N`TaG)
[21:30] <Asbest`LoF> like a boss
[21:30] <Asbest`LoF> thats funny.
[21:30] <NiCo> klikearme
03[21:30] * `Pr1nCe-EgYpT` has joined #RopersHeaven
[21:30] <NiCo> como mierda voy a jugar..  //Twy's comment: that means "How the hell I'm gonna play?"
[21:30] <`Pr1nCe-EgYpT`> lol
[21:30] <Asbest`LoF> i enjoy to own his fagass
...
[21:31] <`Pr1nCe-EgYpT`> need to paratice xd
06[21:31] * Asbest`LoF is hosting a game: for_f@#!ing_retarded_chilian_piece_of_shit, wa://proxy.worms2d.info:41724?gameid=4650335&scheme=Pf
02[21:31] * Wilbur-Cobb has quit IRC (Joined Game)
06[21:31] * NiCo is joining a game: for_f@#!ing_retarded_chilian_
[21:31] <`Pr1nCe-EgYpT`> Zehta i will upload replay
02[21:31] * `Pr1nCe-EgYpT` has quit IRC (Joined Game)
[21:31] <Asbest`LoF> that was kick honey
03[21:31] * Wilbur-Cobb has joined #RopersHeaven
[21:31] <NiCo> Ok cya
[21:32] <Zehta> Anyone need host?
03[21:32] * `Pr1nCe-EgYpT` has joined #RopersHeaven
[21:32] <Asbest`LoF> thats how we punish such faggots as u here in ukraine
[21:32] <NiCo> Asbest won , i cant playing with retarted playings
03[21:32] * Wilbur-Cobb has left #RopersHeaven
[21:32] <Asbest`LoF> come and I will f@#! ur fagass nicolas fagolas
[21:32] <Zehta> fagolas xD
[21:32] <NiCo> stop kick conchetumare

And you are complaining that "Nico insulting"?

Welcome to TUS, AsbestLegend!

Let's take a look at the screenshots, shall we?

LTK's screenshot. First you tell him to stfu then you're surprised he reacts? And then you threaten him (yes, that was a threat, even if it's not an effective one) and you're surprised he reacts? I think he's shown good restrain by not actually insulting you. LTK is younger than you, but I think he's acting pretty mature there. Think about it.
The reason you were kicked out was because you were being a dick. Your own screenshot shows that LTK agreed with you that if you don't want spectators, then there shouldn't be any. He agreed with you and you still went out of your way to be a dick to him!

NiCo's screenshot. True, that happened and he shouldn't have. Shall I ask a moderator to post the entire log or will you? I don't know what has happened before this screenshot. I see Twyrfher already has, but considering the different time zone, it would be nice to see all of those comment in one file :)

Alien, please don't make this escalate more than it already has.

I was just in AG, so you're probably going to post images of Komo's darts tournament: Komo has chosen not to include you in his tournaments because of your behaviour. W:A and the worm olympics are supposed to be about fun. If your idea of fun is to piss everybody off, then you have no place in WO.
You can do one of 2 things:
1) You can keep doing this, and more and more moderators will kick you out of their tournaments/cups/leagues.
2) You can think about what you're doing here, why you're doing it and do something about that. And come clean about it.

You're not going to have a fun time if you pick option 1, but that's your choice.

BTW: You may find that there's no official penalty or ban on your name on the WO site. But we won't tell moderators who they should and shouldn't have in their tournament, as long as they have a good reason for it.

D1, here's the log

Thank you :) I'll have a look.

Is there anyone having problem to report px replays to wo like me?

del

pls remember about this tourney !!!

http://wormolympics.com/t1197

Sadly, of course, that the Chileans are afraid RandomBot, hehe :(

But Russian and Ukrainians are afraid of nobody. :D

Thank you Pyro for his creation, for all the world to see how we honestly do of pairing. :P

not all chileans is bad mods, twy and few other is usually modding fine, but just take a look at what the f@#! bry4n is doing:
(http://rghost.ru/48373638/image.png)
(http://rghost.ru/48373640/image.png)
(http://plasmon.rghost.ru/48373651/image.png)

you may think something like ahh so what if you asked him to pair you with lukz? there is still huge chance that it was random... (100/13=7% chance) lol
But!! Take a look at previous Bry4n wxw tourney, he paired me on 1st round with lukz twice in a row xD
http://wormolympics.com/t1100#results

by the way, chance to get paired with lukz twice in a row on the same scheme with the same mod on the first round for me is:
0.09%

also, about pairing me up with the players who won gold on the chilean tourneys
i participated on 4 2v2 roper tourneys.
here i paired with avi and statik on round1 -> they won gold
http://wormolympics.com/t1107#results
here i paired with bry4n and lukz on round1 -> they won gold
http://wormolympics.com/t1151#results
here i paired with avi and free on round1 -> they won gold
http://wormolympics.com/t1275#results
here i paired with bry4n and okeii, guess what? yeah they won gold
http://wormolympics.com/t1074#results


chance to play with winners of tourneys on 1st round at absolutly 100% of all hosted 2v2 roper tourneys is.. under 0.0001% lol, i cant even count that, the number is too small, its like winning 1000000$ lottery.. it's like going to the store, and suddenly  lightning strikes in you.. ofc in case all those pairings is randomized, which is obviously not

U can see , how play Asbest in chilians tourneys :P

Quote from: Impossible on August 26, 2013, 02:51 AM
chance to play with winners of tourneys on 1st round at absolutly 100% of all hosted 2v2 roper tourneys is.. under 0.0001% lol, i cant even count that, the number is too small, its like winning 1000000$ lottery.. it's like going to the store, and suddenly  lightning strikes in you.. ofc in case all those pairings is randomized, which is obviously not

Actually, it's 1/9 * 1/12 * 1/12 * 1/13 in this case which is 0.006%, so almost 60 times what you just said. Incidentally, that chance is 1.5 times as high as the chance to be struck by lightning in any given year.

Darkone, when you guys handle px replays issue? Did you talked about this with FFie?

I did talk to her about it, so she knows about the problem.
The thing is, the logs in the replays are messed up when trying to export it with regular WA, so the site can't handle them (at least, that's how I interpret it, she'll know better what the problem is).
I don't know if she can fix this, but to be honest, I'm not sure how motivated she is to fix it, either. WO almost didn't happen this summer because of some people who can't leave the drama (and with it, extra work for mods) out of this. They're doing a great job reminding her.

Quote from: DarkOne on August 26, 2013, 09:51 PMThe thing is, the logs in the replays are messed up when trying to export it with regular WA, so the site can't handle them (at least, that's how I interpret it, she'll know better what the problem is).

The file header of a PX replay is changed, so an unmodded WA won't be able to open it in any way. exporting logs with PX enabled also doesn't work and crashes after a few lines (before the 0:00 timestamp).

there's a way to get usual WA info though. The normal replay with the "WA" header is located after the PX data. the processing program could cut everything before it when analyzing the replay.

Quote from: DarkOne on August 26, 2013, 07:26 PM

Quote from: Impossible on August 26, 2013, 02:51 AM
chance to play with winners of tourneys on 1st round at absolutly 100% of all hosted 2v2 roper tourneys is.. under 0.0001% lol, i cant even count that, the number is too small, its like winning 1000000$ lottery.. it's like going to the store, and suddenly  lightning strikes in you.. ofc in case all those pairings is randomized, which is obviously not

Actually, it's 1/9 * 1/12 * 1/12 * 1/13 in this case which is 0.006%, so almost 60 times what you just said. Incidentally, that chance is 1.5 times as high as the chance to be struck by lightning in any given year.

i just called a random number, i thought nobody want recount that :D
anyway its absolutely not a problem for me to play with favorite of the tourneys, there is problem wierder than that, everyone know that chilean will f*k me with pairs so everyone avoiding me as partner and i have to play with players like nocry, the guy under drugs who piled me all his turns and made around 5 self-attacks in game, kins who didnt even wait for ll, etc lol

Quote from: DarkOne on August 26, 2013, 09:51 PM
WO almost didn't happen this summer because of some people who can't leave the drama (and with it, extra work for mods) out of this.

I knew something was going fishy with these WO. In the tourneys I hosted, people somehow weren't who they used to be. More exactly, it seemed the loyal players went away, leaving WO with just a majority of drama queens who previously were sunk in the masses. Okay, I admit I hosted most of my tourneys in European mornings and/or with not-so-common schemes, but the situation didn't look normal at all nonetheless, especially given the Chilean issue (I'm not intend to insult the country, no - I just wanted to give it a name) we've noticed. What makes me suppose people are gone is that unability to get 24 players for a 2vs2 Abnormal tournament hosted in European evening (despite the popularity of the scheme and the time the tournament took place at, yep).

I can't flesh this post out further but basically yeah, I didn't realize all this completely broke WO (i.e. not just partially), making it look like it almost didn't happen. I just hope this is just a one-time thing and not WA being at an advanced state on its way to death.

Edit: On the other hand though, I think PyroMan did a great job coding RandomBot (I'm sorry for not using it myself but I'd be ready to record videos of the pairing process if anyone is skeptical regarding the randomness of my pairings) and I'm really glad to see people using it as well.

randomize pairs on your tool till you get a newbie opponent, film it, cut everything other, and upload on youtube, yeah there already was mods like that :D

here is my suggest:
Once some1 complaint about some1 pairings, this guy automatically get forced to use randombot for some amount of time

Your complaints system looks way more abusable to me, unless complainers are required to have detailed proofs.

As for the video thing, well, maybe enforce a delay between the pairings' announcement and the video's upload. Oh well, I wonder why just being honest is that hard.

stop the drama sh**** why people cant just fun with this game and enjoy it :/ so much distrust and insults for pairings , this game is made for FUN not to take it serious like u will lose something in real life....

About that video thing, just start record with writing "I am pairing now" on snooper and pair them.

I wish WO had a pairing system like TUS(considering clans or country) Then there wouldnt be any drama thing etc. Everybody would be happy.

can ofc only speak for myself but i think many others handle it similar:
i use  the tools from wo site to pair and i dont see why i should use randombot ( idk how to pair with it anyway).
since im not in clans, give a shit bout nationalism and patriotism (playing for "your" country, wtf...) and play the game for fun - agree with wolfy ther - i dont think anyone can assume me pairing ppl on purpose or misusing the tools to give myself or others "newbie opponents".
if anyone feels treated unfair in my tourneys he should just not take part in it cuz from my view i do evrything to keep it fair for evrybody.
haters enviers n greeders unwelcome :)

Quote from: Wolfgang on August 27, 2013, 07:04 PM
stop the drama sh**** why people cant just fun with this game and enjoy it :/ so much distrust and insults for pairings , this game is made for FUN not to take it serious like u will lose something in real life....

If you're contributing to the destruction of that fun by having very suspicious pairings, then there's no surprise the fun disappears. It's like playing with fire and complaining it burns, really.

Quote from: Triad on August 27, 2013, 07:36 PM
About that video thing, just start record with writing "I am pairing now" on snooper and pair them.

I guess Impo's loophole-finder mind will pretty easily find loopholes in that (something like, writing this and then pairing until pairs are convenient to the mod and cutting out the rest). I thought of showing the chat too. I wonder if having to show the exact current time with seconds increasing during the recording can solve the problem, though.

Quote from: Triad on August 27, 2013, 07:36 PM
I wish WO had a pairing system like TUS(considering clans or country) Then there wouldnt be any drama thing etc. Everybody would be happy.

Reproducing TUS's smart pairings would go against the principle of random pairings (even though the hosting filter does too, to some extent). A good clan/country could easily invade a tourney and gg, get all 3 medals because they don't get to eliminate each other. A TUS-alike system with pairings made on WO's website would also go against the "no registration required" principle FFie put in place since day one.

Finally, speaking of Hurz's post, I'm pretty much in the same boat: UC is doing pretty good without cheating, there are almost no French players and whilst I realize how competitve WO is, I keep playing it with some fun behind it. For those who doubt about the randomness of my pairings, just think of how many times I've got paired against players such as Zwitter in my own tournaments. I admit I use the hosting filter, but that's more for conveniency purposes than for cheating purposes (I don't want to have to call 50 hosters for a tourney, and explaining how to install WormNAT2 to those who can't host just isn't the kind of thing one can do in a few minutes before a tournament starts).

Edit: Mixed up Hurz and Wolf for some reason.

Quote from: LeTotalKiller on August 27, 2013, 09:32 PM
I guess Impo's loophole-finder mind will pretty easily find loopholes in that

easily, you can write messege from snoop which will be invisible for everyone :P

Quote from: Wolfgang on August 27, 2013, 07:04 PM
stop the drama sh**** why people cant just fun with this game and enjoy it :/ so much distrust and insults for pairings , this game is made for FUN not to take it serious like u will lose something in real life....

Stop the fervor and now listen.
You are asked to use every tournament RandomBot, but no,
And do not even argue that of pairing you weird.
And now you write that have fun?

Each MOD to show the world that he is clean, but not your.
So for me, you have been, and there

yeah dmitry is right, you pairing me only with lukz and saying wtf is wrong with you, just have fun xD

http://wormolympics.com/players/Impo

http://wormolympics.com/players/Asbest

LoL xDDD

There are some delicate and unfounded things that have been said against my country in this thread, like this ones:

Spoiler! View

Quote from: Dmitry on August 26, 2013, 01:50 AM
Sadly, of course, that the Chileans are afraid RandomBot, hehe

Quote from: Impossible on August 26, 2013, 02:51 AM
it's like going to the store, and suddenly  lightning strikes in you.. ofc in case all those pairings is randomized, which is obviously not

Quote from: Dmitry on August 26, 2013, 03:43 AM
U can see , how play Asbest in chilians tourneys

Quote from: Impossible on August 27, 2013, 01:07 AM
there is problem wierder than that, everyone know that chilean will f*k me with pairs

Quote from: LeTotalKiller on August 27, 2013, 10:16 AM
but the situation didn't look normal at all nonetheless, especially given the Chilean issue (I'm not intend to insult the country, no - I just wanted to give it a name) we've noticed. What makes me suppose people are gone is that unability to get 24 players for a 2vs2 Abnormal tournament hosted in European evening (despite the popularity of the scheme and the time the tournament took place at, yep).

I can't flesh this post out further but basically yeah, I didn't realize all this completely broke WO (i.e. not just partially), making it look like it almost didn't happen. I just hope this is just a one-time thing and not WA being at an advanced state on its way to death.

Quote from: LeTotalKiller on August 27, 2013, 09:32 PM

Quote from: Wolfgang on August 27, 2013, 07:04 PM
stop the drama sh**** why people cant just fun with this game and enjoy it :/ so much distrust and insults for pairings , this game is made for FUN not to take it serious like u will lose something in real life....

If you're contributing to the destruction of that fun by having very suspicious pairings, then there's no surprise the fun disappears. It's like playing with fire and complaining it burns, really.

Quote from: Dmitry on August 28, 2013, 12:59 AM

Quote from: Wolfgang on August 27, 2013, 07:04 PM
stop the drama sh**** why people cant just fun with this game and enjoy it :/ so much distrust and insults for pairings , this game is made for FUN not to take it serious like u will lose something in real life....

Stop the fervor and now listen.
You are asked to use every tournament RandomBot, but no,
And do not even argue that of pairing you weird.
And now you write that have fun?

Each MOD to show the world that he is clean, but not your.
So for me, you have been, and there

Well, for example, I think that LeTotalKiller is assuming this by reading this thread without knowing what's is really happening, but it's ok, I bring here some stuff than can help to clarify what's going on with the parings.

We started to use RandomBot since August 16-17 aprox. We didn't know that doing the pairings only with Pairings.exe (like always we used to do) would become a seed for bad comments and rumors against us. So, ALL of our tournaments since that day were made by using RandomBot. Here are the extracts of the log from #RH and #PT for each of those tournaments, ordered by hoster:

(I) Bry4n (Every tournament since the Petrolia of August 16)
- You can see all his hosted tournaments here: http://wormolympics.com/results?hoster=Bry4n
- The logs using RandomBot for each tournament:

http://wormolympics.com/t1299#results
[03:30] 14<01 MODxBryan14> 01!pairings Luishero Thouson Gal Asbest Zwitter Bry4N Pleiadian Screw

http://wormolympics.com/t1303#results
[03:33] 14<01 MODxBry14> 01!pairings Wolfgang Bry4N levent pepa Luishero Lukz impo GRiZ guuria Csongi wormystormy gnardogjay hollow NiCo Drumstick mat27

http://wormolympics.com/t1305#results
[04:42] 14<01 MODxHyst14> 01!pairings k1nG Luishero Jago guuria Dead Cyberworms Bry4N impo Zwitter Twyrfher Pleiadian reN Incog LeTotalKiller

http://wormolympics.com/t1313#results
[03:38] 14<01 MODxPetrol14> 01!pairings Luishero Wolfgang wormystormy Bry4N impo Zwitter reN Spider Eduardo Alejandro CiberWorms Pleiadian Incog RunAway


(II) Lukz (Every tournament since the Shopper25sec of August 19)
- His tournaments: http://wormolympics.com/results?hoster=Lukz
- The logs using RandomBot for each tournament:

http://wormolympics.com/t1281#results
[06:22] 14<01 MODxShopper14> 01!pairings Moneda-Errante Asbest sHaDoWMaN Jago Lukz Bry4n EC Wolfgang saifron Luishero PIZZASHEET reN Twyrfher Mayhem stRiNgkiNg Billthefish CyberWorms

http://wormolympics.com/t1314#results
[21:26] 14<01 MODxPLOPPER14> 01!pairings Xrayez Twyrfher Lukz Zwitter Uzurpator Chelsea Pleiadian GadZeT Pyroman Incog z0rk Warg AKT Pr1nCe-EgYpT impo Rage

http://wormolympics.com/t1315#results
This was a SSR with 3 players per round, he couldn't (or didn't know) to make thr rounds with 3 players on each game.

http://wormolympics.com/t1356#results
[03:54] 14<01 MODxTTRR14> 01!pairings Wolfgang Lukz Impo NiCo

http://wormolympics.com/t1292
[22:25] 14<01 MODWxW14> 01!pairings Senator Wolfgang FuN Luishero Frant1c Kinslayer StepS TOMT Pr1nCe-EgYpT wormystormy Csongi Bry4n lalo argo Deejay Pyroman eXzo Lukz


(III) Twyrfher (Evey tournament since the TTRR of August 19. I was the last member of my clan to start to using RandonBot, didn't know that was a good idea until my clan mates asked me to use it to avoid problems)
- My tournaments: http://wormolympics.com/results?hoster=Twyrfher
- The logs using RandomBot for each tournament when RandomBot was available:

http://wormolympics.com/t1077#results
[04:35] 14<01 MODxTTRR14> 01!pairings Twyrfher, Nico, gabriel, Lukz, bry4n, Impo, Wolf, Mre, Asbest, Mayhem, guaton, reN, Luishero, seba

http://wormolympics.com/t1107#results
[21:47] 14<01 MODxRoper2v214> 01!pairings avirex/Statik, eXzo/Amour, Lukz/Twyrfher, Tomi/Chelsea, Kinslayer/Impo, Pr1nCe-EgYpT/Pleiadian, Waffle/swisti, Cyberworms/reN, Csongi/Luishero,

http://wormolympics.com/t1078#results
http://wormolympics.com/t1306#results
On this two tournaments RandomBot wasn't available, so I use as always Pairings.exe but I recorded when I made the pairings and showed the results by Youtube

[23:15] <MODxWxW> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8ZYjLkGeoo
[00:27] * MODxShopper here hare the pairings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVVo9O5SmrU
[00:52] * MODxShopper 2nd round here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaSEgi2Peyw
[01:26] * MODxShopper Semifinals!!!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=setTkVWiRHI


(IV) Wolfgang (Every tournament since the Elite of August 25)
- His tournaments: http://wormolympics.com/results?hoster=Wolfgang
- The logs using RandomBot for each tournament when was available:
http://wormolympics.com/t1150#results
[23:24] 14<01 MODxWolfgang14> 01!pairings Wolfgang/Lukz free/Avirex okei/nvm Bry4N/Guaton guuria/Csongi Senator/Hush Zeven/Capitan-J Nico/Devilage StepS/Impo Gabriel/Dilboy

http://wormolympics.com/t1258#results
[19:45] 14<01 MODxElite14> 01!pairings Wolfgang Rafka Incog Random00 Bry4N Lukz nvm VoK South-Park Guaton lales eXzo Chelsea ReN

So, from the last 16 tournaments when RandomBot was available, we always used RandomBot. I have to add this last quote of this tournament:

Spoiler! View

Quote[21:47] 00 * MODxRoper2v2 01***** [WO - Roper 2v2 Tournament] Final Player List (10/10): avirex/Statik, eXzo/Amour, Lukz/Twyrfher, Tomi/Chelsea, Kinslayer/Impo, Pr1nCe-EgYpT/Pleiadian, Waffle/swisti, Cyberworms/reN, Csongi/Luishero, Cinek/SteP <------------
[21:47] 14<01 StepS14> 01lol Impo
[21:47] 14<01 Cinek`e2N`14> 01Steps?
[21:47] 14<01 StepS14> 01on prikalyvaetsa nad tem chto mod napisal
[21:47] 14<01 StepS14> 01kak be
[21:47] 14<01 MODxRoper2v214> 01!pairings avirex/Statik, eXzo/Amour, Lukz/Twyrfher, Tomi/Chelsea, Kinslayer/Impo, Pr1nCe-EgYpT/Pleiadian, Waffle/swisti, Cyberworms/reN, Csongi/Luishero, Cinek/SteP
[21:47] 00 * RandomBot 01PAIRINGS results for MODxRoper2v2 :
[21:47] 00 * RandomBot 01Kinslayer/Impo, vs avirex/Statik, , eXzo/Amour, vs Pr1nCe-EgYpT/Pleiadian, , Cyberworms/reN, vs Cinek/SteP , Tomi/Chelsea, vs Csongi/Luishero, , Waffle/swisti, vs Lukz/Twyrfher,
[21:47] 14<01 StepS14> 01xd
[21:47] 12-01!12- 10VoK 14[01Username@no.address.for.you14] 01has left 00#RopersHeaven 14[0114]
[21:48] 12-01!12- 10coI`eXzo`FAW 14[01~UserName@no.address.for.you14] 01has quit 14[01Remote closed the connection14]
[21:48] 12-01!12- 11Fox`Stefan22 14[10~Fox@no.address.for.you14] 01has joined 00#RopersHeaven
[21:48] 14<01 sX`Impo`nlF14> 01LOOOL
[21:48] 14<01 sX`Impo`nlF14> 01again this shit
[21:48] 14<01 StepS14> 01ok
[21:48] 14<01 sX`Impo`nlF14> 01on 1st roun
[21:48] 14<01 sX`Impo`nlF14> 01d
[21:48] 14<01 Cinek`e2N`14> 01host up
[21:48] 12-01!12- 11coI`eXzo`FAW 14[10~UserName@no.address.for.you14] 01has joined 00#RopersHeaven
[21:48] 14<01 aef`swisti14> 01twy/lukz host up
[21:48] 14<01 StepS14> 01me?
[21:48] 00 * coI`eXzo`FAW 01is hosting a game: Pr1nCe-EgYpT/Pleiadian, wa://proxy.worms2d.info:45831?gameid=4701373&scheme=Pf
[21:48] 00 * MODxRoper2v2 01GL to everyone in first round- WE'LL NEED A LUCKY LOSER!!! SO LOSERS, STAY IN THE CHANNEL <-----------------
[21:48] 14<01 Cinek`e2N`14> 01ye
[21:48] 00 * MODxRoper2v2 01WE'LL NEED A LUCKY LOSER!!! SO LOSERS, STAY IN THE CHANNEL <-----------------
[21:48] 14<01 Fox`Stefan2214> 01˜¨ep˜°e ˜›y ¬©o— a¦yp y¬a˜c©˜o˜a¥ ™še©o
[21:48] 14<01 StepS14> 01okay
[21:48] 14<01 sX`Impo`nlF14> 01lmao thats bullshit

That's all I wanted to say, there was no big difference in the tournaments results between using Pairings.exe than RandomBot, but of course, it's much clear and "healthy" with a public way to make the pairings, so I'm glad that we can have an option like RandomBot (thanks PyroMan).

The idea of this reply is to clean the image that has been made around Chile by unfounded rumors with no facts, it is not an attack to anyone quoted (Dmitry, Impossible, LeTotalKiller, etc). Unfortunately RandomBot wasn't available since the beginning of the WO in order to avoid all this false accusations against Chile and maybe to my clan TaG and clan mates. Actually, my clan mates didn't want to bring "drama" to here, and thats fine, but I thought that I had to speak for all of them, they all just wanna have fun (like Wolfgang said) and play w:a when we can (in our evening/nights).


ps: the logs can be supported by the WO Admins. in case of any doubt.

I admit I wasn't really here to watch your country's tournaments live and based my post on the season's first tourneys results. My bad for assuming you kept that up until now, then, sorry; however, that doesn't clear doubts about first tournaments.

And anyway, there are other elements breaking this season, i.e. not just these suspicious-looking tournaments from early in the season.

Twyrfher explained really well how things have been working for Chilean hosters... I don't think anyone here can add something else.
But hey, seriously.
http://wormolympics.com/players/Gabriel/tournaments
I havent done any complaint about my pairings.
Check out how many chileans I have had to face in my tourneys (funny fact, some of those are hosted by chilean mods (what kind of cheater would like his country to lose?))
Its a luck thing, and s..t happens. Deal with it, Dmitry, LTK and Impo. Impo, I like you but now you're just talking things that you dont know anything about.

I bet, If I hosted tourneys, I would be called a cheater, too.

1) there were cases when you are in the first two rounds used RandomBot, in the semi-final - no, it's not that strange?
2) Before using RandomBot, you conducted a series of tournaments without him.

I wrote a review, and I think and I do not impose that view all.

thats true, at least ttrr semi and ssr semi was paired without using of randombot

Quote from: Gabriel on August 29, 2013, 01:24 AM
Deal with it, Dmitry, LTK and Impo.

Pff, didn't I already mention there were other things making this season unenjoyable to me? (And maybe your Chile vs. Chile games only took place with fair mods or something - I didn't intend to generalize what I said to all Chilean mods, of course.)

Quote from: LeTotalKiller on August 29, 2013, 02:30 AM
And maybe your Chile vs. Chile games only took place with fair mods or something

or something, ltk. Do you realize that half of the players on chilean tourneys is chilean players itself. This means its impossible physically to dont pair them versus each other, like here http://wormolympics.com/t1329#results

what i want to say is that tourneys where chile play vs chile and winning medals on themselve, giving medals to chile on that tourneys is pointless, there was no other players except chileans so in fact nobody except them could get a medal anyway lol

RandomBot still has some flaws, so using other tools can't be considered a crime.

randombot is a piece of code, what flaws can it have rofl

I meant usage of it of course. :-) I will post some suggestions in it's thread later today. :-D

Quote from: Impossible on August 29, 2013, 02:41 AM
or something, ltk. Do you realize that half of the players on chilean tourneys is chilean players itself. This means its impossible physically to dont pair them versus each other, like here http://wormolympics.com/t1329#results

I was thinking there would probably be that, but I didn't have time to flesh out my post, I had to sleep and I was on my phone.

Everyone discussing country vs country pairings. But dont forget about clans. All TaG players are from Chile. But not all chileans are in TaG. So apparently pairings Chile TaG vs Chile NONTaG will happen as a rule in case of planned pairings. Keep that in mind.
And speaking of Chile is just as an example. Chile still have some fair mods, i say. They just have their TaG players in Chile only. So controlled pairings is much easier for us to see, coz we all know who are chileans, who are not. And its easy to see in results page on WO aswell.
But continueing about clans, most other clans have their mates in different countries. So cheating pairings is not so obvious, becouse we (participants) can`t know about everyone who is from which clan. Its just harder to see compare to countries. But still. Im not saying about all. Some some of mods may cheat a bit. Someone a little by mixing 1-2 pairs. Someone controlling each player thinking of who will be an opponent for next round etc.

Some people asked me make smart pairings for RandomBot (avoid clan/clan pairs, specially if its same country), or add hostability filter. But in my opinion - those options is a good platform to fool the script and to make hidden cheating.
Here is just an example of tourney i`ve been moding today:
we had 15 players and 10 of them cant host (as they said).
So some cant_host vs cant_host will appear for sure.

But. Imagine if bot script would be with hostability filter: whole clan can "say" that they cant host. Result -> they will never be paired vs each other. Is that fair? I say no.

Coming back to today`s shopper tourney i`ve been moding. We had 15 players and 10 cant host (again).
Did we got some super troubles coz that? i say no. One pair had to use hostingbuddy. Rest was just fine. Still.. some pairs finish fast. Others play very long (like me vs exzo coz rm after draw). Some players free - and they can host for another, and so on. No problem about.

I also have some suggestions about bot improvements. Its like auto-signup and auto informing results. Mod will need just check all and fix if someone decided to joke and posted wrong info. In this case "Auto" means that player sending result to bot. So mod is not beeping while his game. And he can check results by asking it at bot - anytime when he is free.
Same for signups. Bot can store players and their info, create list by own, pair them etc. Mod will just need adjust the list if its wrong somehow. Also add ability to bot to close signups (ignore signups commads) etc.
Also would be cool to relate moding to exact mod name. And store players list for those exact mod if needed. Its just to avoit situations of double modding, when two tourneys are at same time, at same channel. But my mIRC scripting knowledge its not good enough to implement that. But i believe that RandomBot shouldn`t be running on my local PC and shouldn`t use mIRC script anyway. It should use linux scripts. And the possibilities with that i much higher.

In conclusion:
Fairness overall is a way for good and fun tourneys.
Else people who knows or even feels that he is fooled - will be angry and flow that on everyone in different ways. This season of WormOlympics is a good example of that. And creation of some kind of fair system (at least in pairings) was just a NEED as for me. I do believe that relationship between participants and mods are getting better, regards to RandomBot.
That is the main function of it. Think about.

for me, the pairings is not the problem. the problem is I now go to bed in 6:00 and get up in around 14:30 because all of my favorite roping tourneys are hosted by chileans at 4:00, 5:00 nights, while there's almost nothing like this in the daytime, rarely even evenings. this killed my sleep, but np. keep playing with yourselves then.

btw guys I think we should advertise WA in asia. I mean, we would have the same people density 24/7, without being so few in the mornings.

What if China's government disallowed W:A in its country? D:

china have its own version of W:A, and well they stick hard to sc2 like koreans :D

Didn't know DC & CS were making communist builds at every release. xD

I wonder if Incog is gonna make it, still a few results to come, but he looks safe  ???

Cool that it lasted till the very last tourney before the winner is known  :)

I know,

best player: Incog
best clan: TAG
best country: Chile


;)

hf gl gg in next WO :)

chile is rather first than best :D

omg, in the experimental standings Chile loses 79 points. very bad luck  :-X

maybe ffie can give me 9000pts penalty so chile will win on experimental system as well :D

No doubt you've earned it ::)

Quote from: StepS on August 29, 2013, 10:45 AM
for me, the pairings is not the problem. the problem is I now go to bed in 6:00 and get up in around 14:30 because all of my favorite roping tourneys are hosted by chileans at 4:00, 5:00 nights, while there's almost nothing like this in the daytime, rarely even evenings. this killed my sleep, but np. keep playing with yourselves then.

btw guys I think we should advertise WA in asia. I mean, we would have the same people density 24/7, without being so few in the mornings.

Haha Steps, you're crazy man. I like you!! Let's team up for the 2v2 Roper and RR tournaments in the winter edition? Atleast the chileans are hosting tournaments, it's in their timezone, can't really blame them.. If Incog wins this year, he will actually be very close to Random as the best player of all time in WO. Random has 3 golds, 1 silver and 1 bronze, Incog will have 2 golds, 2 silver and 2 bronze ^^

Random00 and I just did that some years ago. We played night tourneys and even some early morning ones (european timezone). Just to f@#! always the same bunch of south americans  :D

And we were successfull.  :)

On a more serious note though, it's sad to see so much drama, fight, selfish behavior and what not during WO. I don't believe it's one, two, or ten persons fault, it's something that we are all fault in. Ofcourse, some players are worse then others, but that will always be the case. Banning them works on a short-term period but not in the long run. I think I wrote a similar post after last years olympics, where I gave my opinion on why we're having these tournaments in the first place. What's the purpose of having such a large group of tournaments every summer and winter?

Why has FFie been holding this event for the past 10 years? Such voluntary work that goes on for such a long period of time has always a strong passion and will behind it. I can't speak for her, but while all she has ever done is giving of herself, I feel we give little, if not nothing, back in return. Last years mess as an example. WO is such a big part of WA's history, but I can't really see how, or more importantly why, it should continue to be held.

I don't know how many more chances we'll get, but something has to change... And it has to come from the community. I can't remember that there was so much ignorance and bullshit before. I want to say everything was so much better before, it's such an easy way out of the issue, just staying completely out of it, but it's not a good one. What can we do? ???

It think it grew up inside each of us from early days. This season was like boiling point for players, so changes kinda required.
Its like in Ukraine about people and Police. This year was a year when people stopped to afraid them and attacked some police stations just becouse boiling point reached. People can`t take anymore all those things that they do. Guess something similar we can see here, but between each other. Becouse those who are players - the a also a mods. Anger is a thing that can grow up. And at some point it explodes. Since one exploded, chained reaction can easely happen. Everyone start thinking that "it`s time". And fill each other with all those dirt.
What world do in sport olympics with players who cheating / behave bad / does unfair things? Those player got discualified for a season. Disqualification is good thing for those who don`t respect rules.
What people do when things goes wrong repeatedly? We changing rules. We rewrite the laws. We improve the laws. Make them nicer and make a rules that minimizes chances of repeation same bad situations.
I think that`s what we also have to do in our case.

Quote from: Crazy on September 02, 2013, 05:42 PM
On a more serious note though, it's sad to see so much drama, fight, selfish behavior and what not during WO. I don't believe it's one, two, or ten persons fault, it's something that we are all fault in. Ofcourse, some players are worse then others, but that will always be the case. Banning them works on a short-term period but not in the long run. I think I wrote a similar post after last years olympics, where I gave my opinion on why we're having these tournaments in the first place. What's the purpose of having such a large group of tournaments every summer and winter?

Why has FFie been holding this event for the past 10 years? Such voluntary work that goes on for such a long period of time has always a strong passion and will behind it. I can't speak for her, but while all she has ever done is giving of herself, I feel we give little, if not nothing, back in return. Last years mess as an example. WO is such a big part of WA's history, but I can't really see how, or more importantly why, it should continue to be held.

I don't know how many more chances we'll get, but something has to change... And it has to come from the community. I can't remember that there was so much ignorance and bullshit before. I want to say everything was so much better before, it's such an easy way out of the issue, just staying completely out of it, but it's not a good one. What can we do? ???

Bravo, mate.

"Sorry, you can't repeat a karma action without waiting 12 hours." Damn :(

I for one can't stand all this drama, which is why I'm not very active in worms lately. I think I get my fair share of drama at work already and WA is supposed to be my way of escaping the drama of real life. The sort of drama that gets created here just for the heck of it is just so petty, too.
What's worse is that all this bullshit creates extra work for moderators (in this case, especially for FFie and Balee - and I don't recall either of them pissing anyone off unless they thoroughly deserved it). A chimpansee is smart enough to realise it's a bad idea to throw your poop at the people who do something for them that they like. I don't think this is an intelligence race anybody should want to lose.

Now, I'm sure a couple of people who feel they are being talked about are going to think "well, Asbest was the problem!". To that, I can respond with a quote:

Quote
[22:50] <aAa`Asbest`LoF> ok, thanks.

Less than an hour earlier, he was so angry at, well, everyone, but for some reason especially me, he said he wished me to be tortured eternally in hell (or something in that order). Not sure how something like a game can inspire that kind of anger in anyone, but never mind that. All I did after that was talk to him.
It's easy to look at someone unpopular and having fun at his or her expense, I see it all the time. Very popular in primary schools, but also online. But you have to remember that Asbest (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/tdc-tryout/hello-im-asbestmisha-11282/msg91505/#msg91505) did not (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/es-be-es/hi-i-would-like-to-join-11394/msg92307/#msg92307) start out like this (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/worms-armageddon/zim%60zim-12249/msg98530/#msg98530).

You don't have to like everybody, you don't have to show up at their birthday party, you don't have to buy them gifts. Just show them some decency.

It's a sad thing too, because there are plenty of awesome people on WA.
Pyroman, making an easy to use pairing tool for tournaments, for example.
LeTotalKiller and many others, hosting tournaments and taking all the abuse without resorting to bullying themselves.
SPW, hosting eac like that.
MI, always looking for ways to improve TUS.
People hosting cups again and again, like HHC, pizzasheet, Komo (you can say all you want about Komo and he does have his negative sides, but he damn sure does a lot for WA)

The list goes on (I won't include the whole list, since the post would be too long) and for such a small game, that's impressive. And you'll notice that none of them has ever asked for even a thank you in return.

And you know what? It's not even a problem if you're not in that impressive list. People will host their projects because they like it and if you have a good time playing in them, all the more power to you. Just don't make the organisers feel like they're doing something they don't enjoy.

DarkOne said it all, I'd probably not have managed to rephrase my thoughts the way he did. Now, I'm pretty sure players who played fairly and behaved fairly would be really disappointed to see that some selfish (and what not) players stole the yearly WO fun they had for upcoming years, and that, just for the sake of the latter category's own selfishness: "haha, we broke WO forever, that thing we hated so hard, gj guys, gg WO xDDDDDDDD". Not being pretentious but I feel like part of the former category (I share the thoughts I've mentioned, at least).

Quote from: Crazy on September 02, 2013, 05:42 PM
What can we do? ???

I think, we should not use this thread as a global WormOlympics discussion anymore. Yes, I admit a lot of drama has been here in this season's WO. But the past is the past, and we should focus on the future. Not every years WO can be a succus, and when it isn't (like this one) we should learn about the stuff we did wrong this year, and change that for next years WO.

It's easy pointing fingers, and saying "all the drama is because of Asbest!". What we don't think off, is that he probably wont say anything wrong without a reason. Maybe you've hurt him, or really annoyed him (like me being 5 mins afk in pro 2vs2 tournament). But now don't me wrong, his English isn't that well, so he would offend youquicker than others would.

Noe, there is one thing bugging me, how does every one laugh when taner swears, and when Asbest starts offending multiple times it gets called Drama.

Well, my post made probably no sense, because I still started to talk about the "drama". But for one, I think we should be mire carefull about what we say to people who get easily offended, or don't speak English very well. That's how I think the atmosphere would be better next WO.

Eh, can't define "drama" accurately... I guess it would refer to all the controversial discussion caused by the ones who cheated & co. in the first place.

Also, as I've told you on IRC, Asbest is worse in that he actually affects the tournament's tree by sometimes lying about his losses and what not. Taner on the other hand just sits and trolls, which doesn't really affect tournaments' games (the only problem is the insulting, really).

And the thing we have to worry about now is WO's future, or the possible lack thereof.