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Other Things => WoSC => Clans & Communities => ESL | Experimental Schemes League => Topic started by: SIBASA on June 01, 2022, 12:07 PM

Title: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: SIBASA on June 01, 2022, 12:07 PM
Results of the first round  (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/wosc-esl-experimental-schemes-league/first-round-of-voting-for-esl-season-1-scheme-34480/)of voting:

36 people cast a total of 97 votes
41 out of 86 schemes received votes, 45 remained without votes.
The 9 schemes that received at least 4 votes in the first round go to the second round of voting, namely:

Alt-F4 - 10 votes
Kaos shopper (supermarket) - 6 votes
Supersheeper - 5  votes
Fly Shopper - 5  votes
Surf Shopper - 5 votes
Teleporting, Teleport Shopper, TeleShopper - 4 votes
Driver - 4 votes
One of Everything - 4 votes
Goku Battle Arena (GBA) - 4 votes


Please read all the schemes presented and vote again
(you can vote for 1 or 2 options to choose from)


1. Detailed information about the ALT-F4 scheme:
https://worms2d.info/Alt-F4 And a recent cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1138/) under this scheme

2. There are several options for Kaos Shopper (supermarket), so if you vote for him, then write which option suits you best:
Kaos Shopper by Sensei (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-1888/) or Supermarket Shopper by crmm1792 (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-3814/) or Kaos Shopper by Echiko (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-4087/) for this cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1128/) or other options?

3. Detailed information about the Supersheeper scheme: 
https://worms2d.info/Supersheeper and this scheme also has many variations, so write which one do you like best? For example, here are the search results from the TUS database (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/search/supersheeper) and here are the last two cups: Supersheeper cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1140/) and Aquasheeper cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1158/)

4. Detailed information about the Fly Shopper scheme: 
https://worms2d.info/Shopper#Fly_Shopper and this scheme also has many variations, but basically it differs from the usual shopper by a special maps design (https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/Fly_Shopper/). Recent cups: LG Flyshopper (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-152/), Fly Shopper Public Cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-919/)

5. Detailed information about the Surf Shopper scheme:
https://worms2d.info/Shopper#Surf_Shopper the same as with option 4 - this scheme also involves the use of a special maps design (https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/Surf_Shopper/). Recent cups: Waveriders (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1156/)

6. Detailed information about the Teleporting Shopper schemes:
https://worms2d.info/Teleporting If you vote for this option, then write which scheme you prefer more: TeleShopper by Kradie (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-2048/), Teleport Shopper by Echiko (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-4334/) for this cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-1154/) or other options?

7. Detailed information about the Driver scheme:
https://worms2d.info/Driver and an example of a game in the TUS challenge (https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-774/)

8. Detailed information about the One of Everything scheme:
https://worms2d.info/One_of_Everything

9. Goku Battle Arena (GBA)
https://worms2d.info/Goku_Battle_Arena


Voting Deadline: June 13
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Kradie on June 01, 2022, 12:12 PM
I voted GBA, and Teleport Shopper by me.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 01, 2022, 01:39 PM
Quote from: SIBASA on June 01, 2022, 12:07 PM
1) Fly Shopper scheme:
https://worms2d.info/Shopper#Fly_Shopper and this scheme also has many variations, Fly Shopper Public Cup (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-919/)

2) Driver scheme:
https://worms2d.info/Driver and an example of a game in the TUS challenge (https://www.tus-wa.com/challenges/challenge-774/)

^ My votes go for these 2 mentioned above, Fly Shopper (this cup: https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-919/ , and the cup's scheme: https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-2284/) possibly on any legit fly shopper map
And Driver scheme (Duo race) possibly on any boom race maps

All options are great though (except for goku battle arena ??? :o wtf) I'm glad the right schemes made it here :) I miss Wormopoly, Pool, Basketball (Hoops) a bit though :c I hope one day they would be part of a league where only the rarest of the rare schemes are there :D
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Echiko on June 01, 2022, 01:49 PM
Fly shopper (as to see something recalling shopper) and Driver scheme (I enjoyed SIBASA's challenge where I even won a very nice bronze medal!) :D
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: FoxHound on June 01, 2022, 04:08 PM
Honestly, if any Shopper scheme win I will not play the league, maybe only Supermarket Shopper because it has sdet at least. I like Fly Shopper, but I really think Fly Shopper and Surf Shopper shouldn't even be here, they are very known schemes, and any known scheme will have a huge and unfair advantage here and will remove the votes on the alternative schemes that really metter to know if people want to try. This is an experimental league.

I changed my votes because I don't wanna play Shopper. I think Shopper is the opposite of the idea of ESL.

By the way. You forgot to mention that Triple Shopper (https://worms2d.info/Triple_Shopper) is the oldest public scheme I know of this type (older than Supermarket and Kaos shoppers). And DBC confessed he based on an existing scheme of this type at the time, so even his scheme is not "new".
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: SIBASA on June 02, 2022, 11:49 AM
Perhaps the presented list of schemes is imperfect and perhaps this is my mistake, but at the moment I do not want to express my opinion in detail on this, so as not to influence the voting process.
This is only the first experience of creating this kind of league and it may not be perfect, but if we can spend the first season according to the won scheme in this voting and live to see the second season, then we will try to make the voting better and more thoughtful, but for now, nothing to change in the current I will not vote, because it will not be correct.

In conclusion, I will say - vote for the scheme that you really like and according to which you will be ready to play the whole season.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 02, 2022, 12:00 PM
Quote from: FoxHound on June 01, 2022, 04:08 PM
Honestly, if any Shopper scheme win I will not play the league, maybe only Supermarket Shopper because it has sdet at least. I like Fly Shopper, but I really think Fly Shopper and Surf Shopper shouldn't even be here, they are very known schemes, and any known scheme will have a huge and unfair advantage here and will remove the votes on the alternative schemes that really metter to know if people want to try. This is an experimental league.

Honestly Foxhound, I don't want to disappoint you too much but with your love for all kinda sdet schemes you are almost alone. We have Kaos scheme for sdet, and it is the most frequently hosted scheme in the past 2 years, people love that. Those other schemes with sdet I saw you like for example plop gum, mortal, these schemes not only not make too much sense, but really no one knows them, and in competitive league they would be kinda bad idea to have. I like drown syndrome scheme it can be very exciting, but once again, it is probably too late to raise it up to a league scheme. I saw TUS had cups hosted with this scheme that seemed fun. It might be too late to promote all the other sdet schemes that are rare, you know? But also these black hole bng, golf, shopper etc, I don't think I have ever seen someone hosting this, even if you would like to place all these unknown schemes here, it would be a very inactive league. You might call this experimental league not so experimental anymore, but these are probably all better ideas we have here.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: FoxHound on June 02, 2022, 03:33 PM
I don't want to force the whole community to play all the existing schemes of this game. I just want to see people trying different schemes that are very well thought and were tested but people just don't know, because they will keep playing schemes like Fly Shopper that has a special category with 24 pages of maps (around 28 x 24 = 672 maps) (http://www.wmdb.org/maps/flyshopper) it's obvious people will vote on a scheme they know, that is vastly played on AG and received many, many WO tournaments. Surf Shopper has 5 pages of maps (around 28 x 5 = 140 maps) (http://www.wmdb.org/maps/surf) and also received WO tournaments, being vastly played in AG. Not to say TUS stuff.

I'm just defending people play at least some of the schemes people spend time of their lives creating that might enhance the activity if people enjoy playing a different scheme.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: h3oCharles on June 02, 2022, 04:20 PM
@lupastic, you not being interested in playing someone else's schemes is a different topic that probs doesn't belong in a league where target audience is people genuinely interested in playing someone else's schemes
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 05, 2022, 12:52 PM
Quote from: FoxHound on June 02, 2022, 03:33 PM
I don't want to force the whole community to play all the existing schemes of this game. I just want to see people trying different schemes that are very well thought and were tested but people just don't know, because they will keep playing schemes like Fly Shopper that has a special category with 24 pages of maps (around 28 x 24 = 672 maps) (http://www.wmdb.org/maps/flyshopper) it's obvious people will vote on a scheme they know, that is vastly played on AG and received many, many WO tournaments. Surf Shopper has 5 pages of maps (around 28 x 5 = 140 maps) (http://www.wmdb.org/maps/surf) and also received WO tournaments, being vastly played in AG. Not to say TUS stuff.

Anyway, if you want to question the legitimity of this voting Foxy, you gotta take into consideration that Korydex and a few other guys posted this poll on discord as I heard, and had everyone to cast votes for the Alt-F4 scheme, so for me these kinda votes are rigged anyway all the time (: It's not clean, it doesn't work as everyone is casting their votes on what they truly want or believe. As you said earlier, the community will always focus on playing 1 scheme mainly that a small group of friends want to, and the others need to assimilate to their choice ;) That's all. For me it's ok though, I like alt-f4 :D But these votes will never work out a pure clean way, just saying.

That's why Alt-F4 is leading a lot now, and it was leading a lot in the previous round of poll as well
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Korydex on June 05, 2022, 01:46 PM
Quote from: Lupastic on June 05, 2022, 12:52 PM
Quote from: FoxHound on June 02, 2022, 03:33 PM
I don't want to force the whole community to play all the existing schemes of this game. I just want to see people trying different schemes that are very well thought and were tested but people just don't know, because they will keep playing schemes like Fly Shopper that has a special category with 24 pages of maps (around 28 x 24 = 672 maps) (http://www.wmdb.org/maps/flyshopper) it's obvious people will vote on a scheme they know, that is vastly played on AG and received many, many WO tournaments. Surf Shopper has 5 pages of maps (around 28 x 5 = 140 maps) (http://www.wmdb.org/maps/surf) and also received WO tournaments, being vastly played in AG. Not to say TUS stuff.

Anyway, if you want to question the legitimity of this voting Foxy, you gotta take into consideration that Korydex and a few other guys posted this poll on discord as I heard, and had everyone to cast votes for the Alt-F4 scheme, so for me these kinda votes are rigged anyway all the time (: It's not clean, it doesn't work as everyone is casting their votes on what they truly want or believe. As you said earlier, the community will always focus on playing 1 scheme mainly that a small group of friends want to, and the others need to assimilate to their choice ;) That's all. For me it's ok though, I like alt-f4 :D But these votes will never work out a pure clean way, just saying.

That's why Alt-F4 is leading a lot now, and it was leading a lot in the previous round of poll as well
Why would you say something like that? I voted for teleporting and I don't even care about this league
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Kradie on June 05, 2022, 02:19 PM
Nepotism is strong among the WA elites, just like DAVOS elites. ;)

But seriously, best way to advertise a scheme is to host cup, and Korydex succeeded in this with Alt-F4. Though this scheme got a lot of praise for supposed originality Ignoring the eerie similarities of Lucky Strike. Am I upset that Lucky Strike was Ignored? Let me put it this way: I got bored of Lucky Strike in a few weeks time and Csongi kept asking me if we could play it. I felt bad to refuse his wet Innocent puppy eyes  :'( So we had a few games  :) So yeah, I sort of let the scheme fade into obscurity without the effort to make it popular and moved on. When I saw Alt-F4, I was like ''Hmmm, yeah this is like LS''. I made a post about it then, people Ignored, and I just moved on. So ultimately it is my fault anyway..

Here is another example.... If I would had left WA after the creation of Lucky Strike, and then someone told me years later ''Kradie, someone made a scheme called Alt-f4, it is sort of like LS''  Would I had cared? No.

The other way to advertise a scheme is to host it a lot.. That's what I am doing now with ''Kill 2 Steal'' (K2S). I plan to make a cup for this scheme in the future because the reception so far seem to genuinely nice. I also do ask people if they want to play it..

When it comes to other people's schemes on THESE polls so far, I haven't played all of them. Why?
- To many schemes to test
- No one makes cup for them (I joined the realistic scheme cup)
- No one hosts them
- No one comes to my face and ask me ''Kradie, let's try this scheme?''

But I also suspect, that there can be favoritism in this community, that's why some schemes does it better. People can't separate the scheme and the author. What's Important is that you have fun with the people you hang with.. I think most doesn't give a damn who made this and that... We add to much Importance into this. Yes I believe I contradicted myself. But this is because I'm rambling  a lot now.

I also suspect someone will come with a long tiring and provocative political propaganda monologue soon on a Worms forum, again.. I just hope I am wrong. :(
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 07, 2022, 10:52 PM
Why not make a 2nd round of poll to the schemes that were out in the 1st round? Of course ignore the schemes that got 0 votes, but wouldn't it be better that all the schemes that were left there and did it make it here to give them a 2nd chance, and maybe we could choose 5 or 10 of them so they can be in this league as well? Plus the ones that we have in the current poll.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 07, 2022, 10:55 PM
We left schemes like: wormopoly, rowy, blast zone, lucky strike, drown syndrome, hoops, pool, hide and seek, realistic there.. ;O
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: FoxHound on June 08, 2022, 03:23 AM
Quote from: Lupastic on June 07, 2022, 10:52 PM
Why not make a 2nd round of poll to the schemes that were out in the 1st round? Of course ignore the schemes that got 0 votes, but wouldn't it be better that all the schemes that were left there and did it make it here to give them a 2nd chance, and maybe we could choose 5 or 10 of them so they can be in this league as well? Plus the ones that we have in the current poll.

Your idea is interesting, it would be like a Free League, but for underground schemes. However it would have the same problems of these leagues: 1 person picks a scheme the other person doesn't want to play and then the second person chooses a different scheme that the first person doesn't want to play. Since all these schemes are experimental ideas, I don't think this would be so bad, people would play more different schemes.

The idea of voting and playing only 1 scheme per period is not bad too, because people would focus more on the most voted scheme and then wait for the next scheme to be elected.

Anyway, let's play the way SIBASA planned on the first try, and then we can think in other possibilities or systems for ESL.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: FoxHound on June 08, 2022, 03:36 AM
Maybe some of the other schemes people voted we could create cups for them, since people showed interest on them. I never created a Cup for the schemes, because I don't have so much free time now, and I wouldn't like to create a cup and nobody join my cup, because people only play shopper. Also, I don't like to upload schemes that are not mine when I cannot put the autorship of them (only in the description). I also wouldn't like to have lots of variations of schemes on my profile. I prefer to have few original and good quality schemes on my profile. TUS doesn't attach variations to original scheme pages yet. Or at least players could have a folder for highlighted schemes and a folder for variations/versions of other schemes. I don't know.

I plan on creating some challenges or cups soon, not sure if people would play.

And by the way, Kradie: I played many of these schemes and I hosted online many of these schemes. You are insisting to think your scheme Lucky Strike is the very first scheme on the square. I'll have to say again that no, your scheme is only one among many other schemes of this type. Please, check again the History section (specially the Similar ideas section) of Alt-F4 article (https://worms2d.info/Alt-F4#History).

Ah, ESL was promoted and the link for this page was sent to many discord servers. Alt-F4 might have received more attention between a group of people, but it deserved to be leading now. It even managed to beat (until now) Fly Shopper and Surf Shopper lol (unfair competitors).
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 08, 2022, 10:08 AM
Not like Allround league and Free League, my suggestion was that the schemes that didn't make it in the first round - but got at least 1 vote, should be put up to a separate vote again, and we would choose 5 or 7 or 10 out of them and those schemes would be merged into the same league with the ones we have in this poll?
I think the golden middle way would be that this Experi. League wouldn't have tonnes of unwanted schemes that nobody would play, like Supersheep race, Elemental, Wascar in Free League, but also wouldn't be so simple minded like Allround League.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: SIBASA on June 08, 2022, 12:30 PM
So many cool ideas, but it will be so difficult to bring them to life with your own hands :) Let's try to play the first season according to the won scheme first and see if there will be activity? We need at least some practice, action, otherwise we are just talking about it for now, but we need to start with small steps in order to come to a good result.

By the way, 36 people voted in the first voting - it will not be bad if this voting reaches the same result, or better, it will surpass it.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: SIBASA on June 11, 2022, 09:51 AM
Voting ends June 13th. If you haven't voted yet, now is the time to do so.
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 11, 2022, 12:31 PM
Quote from: SIBASA on June 11, 2022, 09:51 AM
Voting ends June 13th. If you haven't voted yet, now is the time to do so.

Sorry if this is a stupid question Sibi, but the current poll has 9 schemes. Why exactly are we voting for them, what is going to happen? xD Couldn't these 9 schemes make a league already? You guys still plan to sort some schemes out? oO
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: SIBASA on June 11, 2022, 01:09 PM
Quote from: Lupastic on June 11, 2022, 12:31 PM
Quote from: SIBASA on June 11, 2022, 09:51 AM
Voting ends June 13th. If you haven't voted yet, now is the time to do so.

Sorry if this is a stupid question Sibi, but the current poll has 9 schemes. Why exactly are we voting for them, what is going to happen? xD Couldn't these 9 schemes make a league already? You guys still plan to sort some schemes out? oO

These 9 schemes are involved here because they scored passing points in the first round of voting and now we choose one of these 9 schemes, which will be played according to the TRL principle.

Perhaps someday we will create our own league, similar to Allround or Free, which will include several many schemes at once, but next time (perhaps it will consist of all the schemes that have become winners in different seasons, but this is not certain)
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: SIBASA on June 14, 2022, 12:18 PM
Alt-F4 won. A topic dedicated to the start of the season with all the details will be created soon
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: Lupastic on June 14, 2022, 01:32 PM
Quote from: SIBASA on June 14, 2022, 12:18 PM
Alt-F4 won. A topic dedicated to the start of the season with all the details will be created soon

so this whole thing started as "Experimental SchemeS League" we gathered so much stuff around here with explanations and shit, but turned out to be a one scheme event, and this one scheme was chosen by inactive WA players, users from discord who commonly agreed to all vote for it? ;D :D


well to this all I gotta say is:

(https://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/06/77/560677c76a8e6aad1a0ab9081cb28d23--eric-cartman-notebook-quotes.jpg)
Title: Re: Second round of voting for ESL Season 1 scheme.
Post by: FoxHound on June 14, 2022, 01:45 PM
It is SchemeS league because we will test other schemes too, Alt-F4 is only the first one. SIBASA planned all this, so if he is organizing, I will trust the way he planned the league.

If we allowed many schemes at the same time would be way more complicated to organize. Imagine if we had Wormopoly Party, Board Game, Get Frank and many complicated schemes to stablish rules at the same time, it would be a lot of work and would be a mess, I guess. But I agree that with more schemes maybe more people would have interest on playing the schemes, and more schemes would be known.

This will be our first attempt, Alt-F4 is handy because it doesn't require big PNG maps to upload on a forum, the author and the fans of the scheme are active right now and we already have a Cup of this scheme that facilitates to people understand the scheme and how organize things.