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Game #240342, reported by Rocket

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Rocket:
Here and now I feel I should make a statement: I'm far from being a top BnG player. I don't make fancy shots in the league as a rule. Having my own idea of cheap shots, I don't usually throw 4 sec max power nades or 4 sec rollers too, though. Sometimes I can shot myself, sometimes I can hit my opponent by luck or by not the prettiest shot as well.
However, I play this scheme according to the set rules. Any result, be it a win or a loss, is okay with me

Sensei:
[icb`Rocket-a2a] I'm not going to discuss over a shot anyway


Ok. :)

TheKomodo:
Sensei, you need to tone down on the elitism in BnG, this is TUS BnG, not a2b.

If you don't like 4s max shots, and rollers, that's fine, but you don't need to go around trying to make other GOOD people look or feel bad just because you don't like it. ESPECIALLY when they aren't breaking any rules!

The last time I asked you why you think they are lame, you said something like "because they are too easy and doesn't take any skill".

Spoiler! View
Going to go off track here but it reminds me of stuck up artists acting like saints about AI "stealing" their work and that it "takes no skill to type a few words and then the AI makes it for you".

Which is a lot of crap. If it takes "no skill or effort", try and get a newborn baby to do it.

I could go on and on about how stupid these artists are, for ignoring the fact that every single one of us are every day thieves, we steal every day without giving credit, artists "steal" techniques from people who aren't even alive anymore so it's impossible to "credit" them anyway! They constantly forget the thousands of years, and billions of humans that existed before them, that f@#!ing made everything they do NOW possible!

And then they act like they are original, or clever, or better than others when they are just another human being a normal human doing absolutely nothing special!

Oh wow, you can draw, so can everyone else if they have full control of their bodies and practised for 10000 hours!

Honestly, get a newborn baby, not even 1 day old, put it in front of your computer, load up a BnG! Hell, if the baby can even place the worm properly I'll give you £100.

The point is, while it's not very impressive, it still takes YEARS of learning basic fundamental stuff in life to even learn basic physics like gravity, power, timing, speed etc.

People never acknowledge this, it's sad.


If it was so easy then people who only use rollers would be absolutely destroying other BnG players like myself, but they don't!

From experience, it's actually bad to rely on rollers and 4s FP than having a variety of shots.

It's perfectly fine to include these shots in your shot rotation, in fact it's stupid not to as far as being competitive and winning is involved.


Also, in my opinion Rocket IS one of the top BnG players around right now. I'd say Rocket and TheWalrus are very close in skill/variety/consistency.

They are the 2 best right now.

Rocket:
Thanks Komo.
Actually, the source of my statement could be found at @13:12 of this game.

To the history: many years ago (like in 2009) I was watching a game between two well-known wormers, one of them was Chicken23 maybe. At some point of the game, 4 sec nades got used. And the immediate reaction was "4 sec nades are lame. You better use 5 sec lg or 3 sec nades". As a newbie, I took up this idea.
After playing BnG for years with different wormers, I only got more solid in this "4 sec is cheap" concept. If you watch through my BnG replays,  there's no trace of such shots. Ok, maybe once in every 5 games, when my opponent is hiding deep.

That's why I kinda avoid 4 sec shots. But in this particular case a normal 5 sec lg was used. It was a roller, absolutely not a sitter. It didn't need all the world's skills to execute, although I don't believe a half of today's active players could land the same one from the 1st try playing league against a good player. It takes patience, nerve and understanding of the potential danger that if you DON'T land this shot NOW, you'll be shot next. Never thought I would explain myself after a normal shot was made, damn. But here I am.

All I'm asking for is to be friendly and nice. Maybe it's my own attitude and I should change it, but I'd never tell a roper "your whole rope is a cheat cos you use scripts/2 remapped spaces", as well as I'd never mention a cheap shot even if my opponent would use one on me and repeated it for 5 times in a row without reaiming. I've won and lost against both of those types. But never made them uncomfortable with their play

TheKomodo:

--- Quote from: Rocket on January 31, 2024, 08:30 AM ---To the history: many years ago (like in 2009) I was watching a game between two well-known wormers, one of them was Chicken23 maybe. At some point of the game, 4 sec nades got used. And the immediate reaction was "4 sec nades are lame. You better use 5 sec lg or 3 sec nades". As a newbie, I took up this idea.
After playing BnG for years with different wormers, I only got more solid in this "4 sec is cheap" concept. If you watch through my BnG replays,  there's no trace of such shots. Ok, maybe once in every 5 games, when my opponent is hiding deep.

--- End quote ---

To be honest, my start in BnG was similar...

It's no secret that my start in BnG was PURE notching, as in 100% calculated mathmatical shots with zero instinction whatsoever.

This was back in like 2004 or something, it wasn't until I absolutely destroyed all competition in a BnG Tournament, which at that point nobody knew I could even BnG with being known for my roping skills.

Anyway, it was a 32 player Tournament where I missed something like 3 or 4 shots in the entire event, every single game was over within 6-7 minutes.

This drew the attention of one KoreanRedDragon who I knew from SfX/Warming, and he went into great effort to school me on why "notching is lame". Anyway, that's when I decided, ok, let's see how good I can get doing it the normal way, and the rest is history lol. Point is, we are often influenced by the opinions of others, in my case, it was deserved, in your case, it is not.

In fact, I am mostly responsible for the toxic "4s is lame" thing, due to acting way worse than how Sensei is now. In fact, Sensei is being polite compared to me back then lol. Though, back then I was a fool.

It's not so much what you're doing, it's how you're doing it that was always the problem.

The reason I was so annoyed with it back then is partially because of what KRD said that stuck in my head, so I started to treat ANYONE using these shots as a bad person who should be singled out and ridiculed, and that's horrible, it had a bad effect on BnG as a whole.

As I've said before, it's perfectly fine to use rollers and full power shots.

After all, 5s LG floorbanks at full power are just as easy as 4s full power and nobody complains about them?

Or, extending your 4s FP and making it a 5s+ Trapshot, it's the same damn thing with an extra second and bouncing around lol, nobody complains about those...

I reckon it's because 4s nades and rollers were just overused, which made them boring, and generally speaking people don't like to be bored in a scheme that's already considered one of the most boring schemes ever.

BnG does kind of need variety to be exciting to anyone, and that's part of the problem whether people realize it or not.


--- Quote from: Rocket on January 31, 2024, 08:30 AM ---That's why I kinda avoid 4 sec shots. But in this particular case a normal 5 sec lg was used. It was a roller, absolutely not a sitter. It didn't need all the world's skills to execute, although I don't believe a half of today's active players could land the same one from the 1st try playing league against a good player. It takes patience, nerve and understanding of the potential danger that if you DON'T land this shot NOW, you'll be shot next. Never thought I would explain myself after a normal shot was made, damn. But here I am.

--- End quote ---

And what you've said is exactly why rollers are fine!

Sometimes you need to use them, sometimes you miss all your other shots, and you just need to get a hit to get your confidence back, there are tons of reasons!

4s rollers are just as easy to miss, as they are to land.

Put it this way, 3s nade vs 4s rollers, 4s rollers are more difficult to master, at least for me.

Much more challenging to get a roller to take 40+ damage, than the tens of thousands of 3s nades I've thrown which dealt 40+.


--- Quote from: Rocket on January 31, 2024, 08:30 AM ---All I'm asking for is to be friendly and nice. Maybe it's my own attitude and I should change it, but I'd never tell a roper "your whole rope is a cheat cos you use scripts/2 remapped spaces", as well as I'd never mention a cheap shot even if my opponent would use one on me and repeated it for 5 times in a row without reaiming. I've won and lost against both of those types. But never made them uncomfortable with their play

--- End quote ---

Agreed!

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