Quote from: TheKomodo on April 14, 2024, 01:30 PM
Kradie, everything you ever interact with teaches you something on some level.

It's just funny how you talk about limiting other peoples life with "rules" when your beliefs are more limited than most people I've seen here.

I never expressed the desire to limit people. I am the most expressive person there is. I don't care what people think of me. If they like me then that's cool, if they don't then that's cool too.

We both have said our opinions here, that's enough. Your views are similar to mine anyway. It just happen I don't support choking speech.

We should have a poll here. Do you support wormnet moderation?
- Yes
- No
- Only filters
- Adult channel (AG is moderated).

If you think you have taught me something then you have sorely underestimated me.

Dinner with Komodo.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwO0CDYxyxc

Kradie in a Komodo world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IyuK069I-w

I AM HERE TO CLARIFY TO YOU DEAR READER

"If you support free speech, you need to understand that it will also involve hate speech".

I think it was necessary correction to my second post here in this topic.

@Komodo

I said ''may'' because I was not talking about quantum, physics. If you said something inappropriate to someone they would have a choice to react to it. It is
entirely circumstantial. E.g: If you said something horrible to me, I would have a choice to respond or to Ignore. Not many people FEEL they have a choice because of circumstances they find themselves in. The people who LEFT the game out of their own volition. That was THEIR choice. This is something I can sympathize with. But if you start to add rules, you give people little choice but to comply because of herde mentality. Making a choice will become Impossible out of fear of being ostracized.

People always have a choice. I already know this.

Obviously you should not exercise and abuse freedom of speech publicly with animosity. You shouldn't even seek out the random guy and start fight with. I mean you technically can, but no one in their right state of mind would do that.

Animals does not possess reasoning skills as humans. This analogy is flawed and ridiculous.

These examples of yours are Insane though. Everyone knows there is a limit, but the choice will always be there no matter what. The bottle of vodka can be found at the liqour store if you so choose it. The gym around the corner will still be there if you choose to continue to push yourself. You assume too much.


We all know that good parents who has provided their kids with good guard rails for their kids, will behave decent in society. If you can respect and abide by your parents authority, you can do so in society. This is how you honor your parents. You do this by behaving decent to others. So this is nothing new to me Komodo. Not many people are raised properly, ergo their morals and behavior is Incompatible with a civilized society.

Freedom of Speech is not controlled speech. Just be rational and don't see out trouble.

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on April 14, 2024, 06:59 AM
Freedom of speech is defined within a community/society. Freedom of speech in a country is different than WormNET. You must first define what your target community is about and help it to grow in that direction. You can't use your prescription for real life society for WormNET as well.

WormNET is about W:A and activity of W:A. Basically the community of W:A players who want to enjoy the game together. You have age range roughly 10 to 50.

- Does it help your community to talk about right/left political agendas? (in society: YES, in WormNET: NO)
- Does it help to talk about Hitler? (in society: YES, in WormNET: NO)
- Does it help to talk about religion? (in society: YES, in WormNET: NO)

People tend to leave your community when they don't like its atmosphere. It is not about growing a pair and being tough. It's not about ignoring what you don't like. TRUST ME! I've ran this show for 15+ years. People have left the community in front of my eyes. Many of those who left were not even the target of some beef. They just didn't like the atmosphere of people pulling each other's hair.

- DarkOne was one of them. He was a GEM! He said he got frustrated with certain behaviors and one day he was fed up and done.
- Peja left for a long long time. His quitting reasons had NOTHING to do with W:A itself but over some toxic discussions and me failing to realize absolute freedom of speech eventually contradicts itself. (yes TUS had a high degree of freedom of speech in the past)
- Gabriel left the game on and off. Luckily he's still with us, but look:
and these examples are known wormers. There are newcomers who won't bother and boy we have lots of cringe worthy beefs. WormNET moderation is a MUST and its sole purpose should be to keep a friendly atmosphere. We don't want to be an ancient mysterious game like Jumanji. We want new blood and a safe/cozy WormNET is the way to go.

p.s
Freedom of speech is like a farm. You have chicken, duck, geese, cows, donkeys, horses, pigs... and the farmer. They tolerate each other and the farm functions.
Absolute 100% freedom of speech is like introducing a few cobras in that farm. (The cobras will make all the animals stronger and they build character... oh and the farm produces twice as much.)

The topic freedom of speech is a very Important value to me and I can get very passionate about it. I applied my core principle of freedom to WormNET and not elsewhere and got carried away. WormNET is Indeed a place where all ages come and go. Kids and teens should not have to be targeted, drawn in, and see barrages of Inappropriate messages by their equal aged and older.

We are older, and perhaps a little wiser. That's why I'd like to propose an adult (unmoderated/unfiltered) channel on WormNET. Such a channel would be hidden by default in the Network settings. Those who would risk to open this channel would do it on their own volition. In general nothing is airtight Including parenting control. At least there would be a system in place.

Ultimately I agree that WormNET is not a place to discuss this and that, to have a behavioral Identity that could upset others

I do sympathize with those who have chosen to leave WA though. I myself have left groups and avoided people to spare my sanity. There is certain type of people you just want to avoid. Nobody asked you to stick around to endure these people's vanity. That is why I always stick to good people.

This is still your opinion and it is recognized as such.

Freedom of speech is not about protecting minority. ''Minorities are about choking freedom of speech.'' Helpful idiots, and people who speaks for minority's sake, are those who forces the majority on their knees. This cripples the society and makes it gradually fall.

QuoteYou cannot have freedom of speech because there are literal consequences to every single word you think, write, speak, or say in any other form of communication or existence. Nothing in life is "free" because at the very least it costs us time and process, cause and effect.

You always have a choice, and each choice may have a repercussion to it which is something that YOU are responsible of. People will always have a choice. So if you start to restrict freedom of speech, movement, what have you, people would not want to face consequence. Perhaps that's your point? Well obviously, it is just human. As I mentioned earlier, restricting freedom of speech is a slippery slope, eventually you will have a police state.  I am just advocating that people should be responsible of their own actions and face the music of it, and not have big brother executing judgment.

QuoteIf you were to take your own advice, you wouldn't be even having this conversation.

This conversation matters to me, and everyone else who loves freedom in general. What you are endorsing here is evil. I do not wish for such full measure on WormNET. So I am here to speak out for people to read and come with their own conclusion.

QuoteYeah, "freedom of speech" is impossible, and usually whenever I see anybody get obsessed with being against "censorship" and promoting "freedom of speech" it's usually related to something malicious or actual hatred.

Well that's your opinion of course. I stand completely opposite here. People who advocates for censorship are usual evil people.

The question is, what do you want to censor? What words and phrases do you want to be censored? And who? Is it a person who has expressed their opinion on a political and Ideological belief? Someone who doesn't align with your world view? Someone who uses words that YOU find offensive? Or perhaps you want to censor and ban your everyday troll who purses Innocent players and disrupts their everyday activity here on WA? I don't think this is enough reason alone to commit any actions against. The perpetrators take responsibility when they commit atrocities in our society. We as a society here on WA and as such we should also take responsibility individually of our action. In real life, these people would be serious hurt though.

Sob stories, and emotional blackmail should not be catalyst for censorship.- Censorship and bans should be very limited, to a small group of people: Pedophiles and Terrorists. But to ban someone who called you out for whatever reason? Or to ban someone you had a random dispute about whatever? No way. If someone said something you don't like, get over it, it is life. We are not a nanny nor a police state, and we shouldn't be. All good people normally don't associate themselves with toxic people. You just have to use common sense and avoid the trash that is out there. This is why I think filter option would be great for WA.

You should not obsess about a random Insult given by a random person online. Because that random person doesn't mean anything to your life. Only the people you made good friends with. These are the people that matters, their words matter more than a random person's words.

Quote from: Gabriel on April 13, 2024, 06:36 PM
you know what's tyranny? forcing most people to deal with impersonators, spammers, people like Rafal. at some point there was a group of argentinians playing this game, they even promoted a chilean hate youtube channel where they basically praised any event where chileans were killed, including earthquakes. if "freedom of speech" means i have to deal with people like these then i'm not quite sure if i agree with it.

That's both disgusting and horrible, I think most people can agree to that. Freedom of speech imo, should be punished by Individual pursuit, not by police state apparatus. Because once you set a rule, you have stifled free speech, and eventually you or anybody else could be motivated to propose to move the goal post even further by adding more rules. Eventually people will be walking on eggshells, because they would not know what constitute an acceptable speech, and opinion. I don't think we would want such society. We may already be feeling it outside of Worms.

You may disagree to the most heinous of opinion, but you have the power to Ignore it, or fight it.

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 13, 2024, 05:06 PM
It's not a surprise that toxic people don't like censorship lol.

Free speech does also have hate speech in it.

Quote from: raffie on April 13, 2024, 04:10 PM
Bad idea IMO, people who can't cope with a few no-no words on a computer screen are the ones who create a toxic environment is what we all should have learned these last few years. If you're gonna start banning people from playing WA because they said something whoever the moderator is finds offensive, I think we're gonna lose a lot of wormers, entirely possible I could be banned too, after 20 years of playing. It always begins with the magic words "racism", "homophobia", w/e stuff like that. Before you know it you get banned for "misgendering" some tranny.
Add the option to mute anyone you want in WormNet, problem solved IMO.

I agree with this 100%. We have enough censorship elsewhere in the world, there is no need to bring that police state to Worms Armageddon. People who advocate for censorship don't love free speech.

If you don't like someone, their values and opinions, you can Ignore and avoid them. WormNET should have filters though. I have a large list of toxic player I have on my personal Ignore list. If I was admin on WormNET, I would not ban them. We should not even encourage this as well. People with common sense would know who to avoid and I would suspect most people on WormNET have common sense. Only the minority are the losing party if we Ignore them. Otherwise we will have people who calls for extreme policies to be made because of the bad actors, who are the minority.

WWP 2002, age 14.
WA 2004.

And you Korydex?

Who in their right mind would play Worms Armageddon on a projector and use a ruler to measure stuff?

That's some next level shit.

One day you will have AI to measure everything for you. But for now you can probably look into floating ruler for Windows.

https://www.arulerforwindows.com/
https://youtu.be/BZ1uYnqyEjw?feature=shared

Imagine we all having a good time together in a large common room with music, where we would play billiard, card games, and whatever else, plus we would maybe have us a beer. I would say something ''presumably funny'' to counter someone's lines. People might laugh, chuckle, or just brush it off like its nothing. Then suddenly out of the blue FoxHound would step into the room, the music scratches off, lights go down, a dark ora fills the room. FoxHound would ''I assume Kradie has not read this and that. He does not understand this and that.'' He would continue with a lengthy lecturing monologue, where people would cringe and facepalm too. Someone in the backroom would cheer and fist their supportive fist in the air in the background ''YEAH!'' like that ''Yeah'' guy in the movie Trading Places. When FoxHound is done talking, the party is over, and everybody goes to bed feeling unwell.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZF2YAAbtc4

I was being funny, minded my own business and had a good time. Then FoxHound came to bust up the party, where he dried the joy with sand, assumptions and lectures. Now this thread is way overdue. Fantastic!

Quote from: TheKomodo on April 04, 2024, 08:57 AM
I may be wrong, but think Kradie was just taking the piss out of what I said above there.

Exactly! nothing more! It was just for the lolz