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Messages - skunk3

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1
General discussion / Re: Crates and weapons delay
« on: October 14, 2017, 05:07 AM »
Speaking of that, Team17 has had the absolute worst customer relations / community management / communication lately. This is unrelated, but they gave WMD players a 'roadmap' of planned (and sorely-needed) additions to the game back in January and as of today like 80% of the planned updates have yet to see the light of day, and on top of that, Team17 is basically refusing to speak about it whatsoever. Anyway... that's another topic entirely. I just wanted to complain.

That right there is a great reason not to overpromise and underdeliver, wouldn't you agree? It just leaves your reputation as a game dev/maintainer in a worse place each time a deadline passes, and harms the game itself as well, leaving its community less excited and interested than it was to begin with. Even so, I think Deadcode and CyberShadow are reasonably willing to discuss the general plans for WA's future with anyone who contacts them about it. They just don't want to talk about specific features, I imagine primarily because it would ruin the surprise on patch day, but also because while things are still being worked on and tested, they just can't know that they won't hit a roadblock that'll mean a specific feature might get delayed for an update or two.

I don't even feel like they overpromised all that much. A lot of the stuff they planned to fix or add is small things that should be easily doable.

The problem with Team17 (as far as I can surmise) is that they stretch themselves too thin and are too ambitious. They obviously want to make money, so they are constantly developing and/or publishing games, and once a new game is released it gets maybe a couple months of support and after that they kinda stop trying because they are working on the next stuff coming out. They are porting WMD to the Nintendo Switch right now, which is probably one of the main reasons as to why they haven't really accomplished much else. What bugs me the most is the lack of communication though. The community managers were all over the Steam forums around the time WMD launched last August, but as time went on they basically disappeared. Jonno pops in and makes a vague statement every now and again but for several months there wasn't any sort of sign whatsoever.

Right now I know that they are planning on releasing a building editor as well as a hat editor, which is cool and all but there's so many other things that need to be addressed first, things that are far more important IMO. I couldn't care less about being able to wear custom hats when we have basic problems, like not being able to make custom schemes with all of the weapons in the game. That is just one of many serious oversights that exist within WMD. I am super frustrated with the situation because, as I have said before, WMD could be AWESOME if they just put some more work into it. All the makings of a good Worms game are there, but as per usual Team17 made some bonehead decisions along the way. The game didn't even launch with a global multiplayer chat, for fuck's sake! All we had was a list of hosted games. Months later they finally added a chat, but it is nothing like WormNET and most people don't even use it.

I don't want to sound arrogant or entitled in any way, but I hope that in the future they actually reach out to people like me who have a lot of experience with the various Worms titles and know them inside and out and pick my brain for what I consider to be the best aspects of Worms. Why do they implement a cool weapon, utility, or game mechanic and then fail to include it in a future game? It drives me nuts! The dynamic water and worm class system in Revolution + Clan Wars was actually really awesome and it is a shame that they didn't make a comeback in WMD... and instead we get crafting (which I hate) and vehicles - which I am not a fan of, but hate much less than crafting. The buildings are a nice new feature though.

Numerous people have pleaded with Team17 to update the roadmap or give us any sign as to what is going on, but all we have heard in months is that we will likely be getting a couple new terrain themes, and building + hat editors are going to be coming soon-ish. If they had stuck to the roadmap we would have all of that stuff and lots more already. *sigh*



2
Gaming Central / Re: Innovation in games
« on: October 11, 2017, 09:14 AM »
I feel like there's lots of games in which if you put in enough effort, you get results. W:A is a perfect example of that. Nobody is a Worms prodigy.

Personally, what I am really hoping for one of these days is a co-op Elder Scrolls game. Maybe 4 players max.

3
Other worms games / Re: Worms WMD is now 50% off
« on: October 10, 2017, 08:46 AM »

There's no harm in supporting a company that has provided us all with a game we love. The only way to ensure that an amazing future Worms title is to be released is to pay attention to their vision and provide as much feedback as possible. Have any of you ever considered the fact that it is very possible that the best Worms game of all time could be yet to come?


The company, the developers in specific, have long left the building afaik. Why should I support people that never made the great W:A just because they happen to work in that company? I'd rather want to support those guys that made W:A. And it shows, W:A will probably always be the pinnacle of the Worms franchise simply because the developers are not there anymore. The same happens all the time everywhere you look. Diablo 1/2 and then Diablo 3. The Developers long left Blizzard that made D1 and 2 great. A game company should mean nothing to you since it's an ever changing and evolving facility that more often than not changes drastically both in vision and execution since people come and go.

Regardless of that, Team17 is still in charge of the franchise and they DO have the capability of making an amazing Worms title. They just need to listen more to veteran players, especially individuals who have a lot of experience with ALL of the Worms games, such as myself. The problem doesn't lie with the fact that they are incapable of making a killer Worms game... the main problems with the past few games are:

1. The games are clearly designed for console (*multi-platform) first and foremost, and it's pretty obvious to everyone that Worms is best on computer.

2. Team17 is really bad about recognizing what it is about previous Worms games that people liked, therefore leaving out many features, options, and items.

3. Team17 is really bad about insisting on innovation in newer games, which leads to gimmicks. The crafting system in WMD is a perfect example of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." Crafting ruins Worms gameplay.

4. They are really bad about cash grabs. WWP was basically just a slight improvement over W:A. Clan Wars should have been a patch for Revolution, but instead it ended up being a completely separate game - the game Revolution SHOULD have been from the start.

5. Team17 is really bad about naming conventions. The console version of Reloaded is "Worms 2: Armageddon." WTF? Also, we were promised by Team17 that Clan Wars would be a PC exclusive... then they released it on consoles under the name of "Worms Battlegrounds." Basically, they straight-up lied.

6. There were supposedly beta programs for Reloaded, Revolution, and Clan Wars, but I never got selected to be a part of any of them. WMD didn't even have a beta, and if it had, so many issues would have been pointed out before launch. Newer Worms games launch with so many problems it's unreal.

Long story short, if Team17 would stop dividing the player base and actually listen to and work with old school Worms players, they could easily make a game as good as or better than W:A. WMD has serious potential, but the shame is that it will probably never have the chance to live up to it.

4
General discussion / Re: Crates and weapons delay
« on: October 10, 2017, 08:31 AM »
Read DC's post on page 3
if instead of 4.0 you were referencing 3.8 in your post near the bottom of page 8

Could you please link to posts by URL instead of referencing them in this way? The forum software lets you set 5, 10, 15, 25, or 50 posts per page, and this is a per-user setting. With >=10 posts/page there isn't even a page 8. With 5 posts/page there's no post by me near the bottom of page 8. So I don't know what posts you were referring to...

if "almost everyone" agrees that it should have been released long ago (and therefore, presumably finished) then why hasn't it been released yet?

I'm sorry, I can't be specific. Basically, I feel it would hurt the long-term future of the game to release it at this point, with certain features unfinished. But whether or not I manage to finish these things, you will be getting a release by the end of the year.

After releasing 3.8, I want to go back to a much more frequent release schedule, like it used to be before 3.6.28.0.

My fault... it was CyberShadow who said something in this thread, and I misread/misinterpreted it to boot. I have, however, read things elsewhere that led me to believe that 4.0 was basically finished and for whatever mysterious reason, it wasn't being released. I couldn't even begin to remember where I read that though. At this point it could just be my imagination playing tricks on me because it's probably been years.

I definitely don't want anything to be released that is buggy or would otherwise hamper the gameplay we all enjoy. I am really psyched to see what this update entails, and hearing about a more regular update schedule afterwards is sweet too.

Last thing (for now) - and I am not trying to be an ass here - but what's with all the secrecy and hush-hush? This is a very niche game that is positively ancient by online multiplayer standards, and most of the people who frequent these forums are people who have played the game and been a part of the community for many years. I understand not wanting to NOT deliver on stated goals and/or promises, but aside from that I don't really get why everything shouldn't be completely transparent at this point. Hell, this game is rapidly approaching a 20-year anniversary! I just find it kinda irksome that there's a select few that seem to get all of this insider information while the rest of us just sit in the dark and hope for some morsel of information gets pitched our way.

Speaking of that, Team17 has had the absolute worst customer relations / community management / communication lately. This is unrelated, but they gave WMD players a 'roadmap' of planned (and sorely-needed) additions to the game back in January and as of today like 80% of the planned updates have yet to see the light of day, and on top of that, Team17 is basically refusing to speak about it whatsoever. Anyway... that's another topic entirely. I just wanted to complain.

 

5
General discussion / Re: Crates and weapons delay
« on: October 10, 2017, 12:17 AM »
4.0 isnt done vince, dunno where you got that idea

Judging by the posts in this thread, elsewhere, and also hearsay, I came to the assumption that 4.0 was already complete but for whatever reason, we'd have to make do with 3.8 being released until a couple more things were ironed out.

Read DC's post on page 3. Maybe he was referencing 3.8 specifically, but there's other posts going back YEARS that kinda hint to the fact that 4.0 is complete, unless I was entirely missing something. Anyhow, it's good to be corrected and know what is going on. Personally, I am more than fine with 3.8 rolling out and hoping/waiting for 4.0 to come later as it has been SO LONG since any sort of an update has been released for this game. @DeadCode - if instead of 4.0 you were referencing 3.8 in your post near the bottom of page 8, then the same question applies - if "almost everyone" agrees that it should have been released long ago (and therefore, presumably finished) then why hasn't it been released yet?

I also agree with Sensei in that WormNAT2 needs to be fixed for sure.

All I can say is that I hope that updates continue to come for years... no other game has ever drawn me in like W:A and if I had the know-how I'd work feverishly towards making this game as awesome as possible.

 

6
General discussion / Re: Crates and weapons delay
« on: October 09, 2017, 07:13 PM »
Personally, I've never found this 'bug' to be much of an issue. Whenever a failure such as that happens to me, I just assume that it is because of my bad timing and nothing more. Fixing a very occasional half-frame rope bug might be a good thing but ONLY if it doesn't drastically change the feel of the rope overall. I have definitely adapted to this bug, and years ago. It is frustrating when it happens, but it is definitely avoidable.

On the topic of 4.0 - I gotta say that I am a bit confused here. Deadcode, you said that 4.0 was essentially ready and has been for a long time, yet it hasn't been released. On the other hand, you mentioned releasing 3.8 before Q1 2018. You also said that there's probably some authorization that needs to be done by Team17 before 'approving' the patch or whatever. Why does Team17 even need to do anything? They haven't been involved with this game in any way that I know of for ages now. The only thing they've done any time recently is make W:A available for sale on Steam. Furthermore, if almost "everyone involved" (quote) agrees that it should have been released long ago, what is the hold up? Who is the person or persons making this decision? There's been talk of 4.0 for many years now (this thread attests to that), so what's the deal? Please know that I am not being snarky or pushy here; I am just genuinely curious because an update might be the impetus needed for many absentee players to start playing again.

In short, if 4.0 is finished, why not release it and skip 3.8 entirely?

Regardless of all that, I am really excited to see a new update and cannot wait to see a list of fixes / additions / etc. W:A is by far my favorite game of all time and I am extremely pleased that it is still being improved upon. Would it be too much to ask to know in advance what we can expect from 3.8/4.0? I don't mind waiting as long as I know what is coming, but waiting without knowing anything is kinda irritating. I think that my hopes are too high right now and I want to bring myself back down to Earth a bit so I don't expect any crazy shit, like Wormpot added, extra weapons and utilities, etc.


7
Gaming Central / Re: Innovation in games
« on: October 08, 2017, 03:36 PM »
I know or have known people who I would classify as addicts. They would go to work and pay their bills and stuff, but aside from that they spent almost every waking moment playing various games, for YEARS. I was certainly like that at one point when it comes to Worms, but as I've gotten older I have more fully realized how precious time is, not to mention the fact that I have worked through some emotional issues that led me to closing myself off to the world.

I've read the link that Komo posted before and I think it is absolutely correct. The best analogy I can think of for MMO games is a 'hamster wheel for the human mind.' You work and work and work hoping for some kind of a reward or pleasure, but it is always kept out of reach. The amount of grinding required in these games to be on top / competitive is insane since the games themselves don't really require any skill. All that matters is the gear you have, and also some knowledge of various meta aspects of the game (knowing what is under or overpowered, history of buffs and nerfs, etc). I've played various MMO games over the years and I always get bored eventually because at a certain point there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind and HOPE to get some item that can make your stats *slightly* better. It is a hamster wheel.

One of the reasons why W:A can keep my attention after so long is because there's no grind involved, per se.

I don't get the obsession with MOBA games. I've tried a few and it can be fun to play for maybe a couple of days but in the end it feels extremely repetitive and boring.

FPS games annoy the shit out of me because people know every little exploit, every nook and cranny of maps, and it seems like everyone but me has the magical ability to dial in a headshot within milliseconds. Whenever I come across someone in FPS, I can unload on them and hit them with several shots and then they just turn around and one-shot me. EVERY TIME. I don't know what the deal is. I've always kinda sucked at FPS because of this reason. I have decent reflexes (I used to play in IRL fighting game tournaments) but I guess it's the 3D nature of FPS that gets me so screwed up. I often find myself raging because I'll get killed by some fucker 2 miles away with a pistol, in a fucked up hiding spot that I'd probably never notice.

Destiny is the only FPS that's managed to hold my attention for a while because I like all of the co-op aspects to it. I also like how it's kinda RPG-like in many ways. I'll be playing Destiny 2 a lot once it drops for PC later this month.

8
Gaming Central / Re: Game suggestion
« on: October 08, 2017, 03:18 PM »
I have been kinda hooked on a free to play tower defense title for a while now... it is called "Bloons TD Battles" on Steam and it has various modes of play. I like the card mode the most because I think it is the most fair/balanced/strategic. It's free, so nobody can gripe. :) If anyone ends up playing, hmu.

9
Gaming Central / Game suggestion
« on: October 08, 2017, 03:18 PM »
I have been kinda hooked on a free to play tower defense title for a while now... it is called "Bloons TD Battles" on Steam and it has various modes of play. I like the card mode the most because I think it is the most fair/balanced/strategic. It's free to play. If anyone ends up playing, hmu.

10
General discussion / Re: A thought about WWP
« on: October 08, 2017, 03:14 PM »
I can't remember exact dates and such, but I do remember a time in which WWP was definitely more popular / active than W:A. A very large number of people switched to WWP for quite a while... that is, until some of the W:A updates made it worth switching back, even at the expense of some of the WWP features.

I just think it's a shame that W:A is the game that got updated rather than WWP.
WWP was more popular than WA for about 3 months at the very most, I played both for the first year WWP was around.  Sales numbers will confirm why WA is still the more used game.  Consumers realized WWP was a ripoff and didn't buy it in the same numbers as WA.  Don't know why you want the useless wormpot modes WWP shipped with, no one really used them anyways, at least those that participated in league sites like cl2k and TUS, which is what we are messaging on right now.

I seem to recall the buzz for being more than 3 months. IIRC, a lot of people played WWP for at least a year, if not two. Eventually though everyone came back to W:A. Yeah, WWP was kind of a cash grab (as Team17 is known for now) but at the time I welcomed those extra features and used them all of the time.

11
Gaming Central / Re: Innovation in games
« on: October 03, 2017, 06:49 AM »
Modern gaming kinda sucks IMO. I can't remember the last time that I found a game that has 'hooked' me.

For me, gaming started to take a turn right around the time the XBox 360 came out... and the problem is online gaming. Sure, there was online stuff on the PS2 and the original XBox, but not much in comparison. The focus then was making excellent games that do not require any online multiplayer features. Once everything became all about the online multiplayer, gaming got kinda boring for me. (Even though I was playing online multiplayer stuff on PC.)

I don't know if it's because I am getting older and more jaded, but I don't get the same satisfaction from gaming as I used to. I miss the days of local multiplayer... sitting around on the couch with some friends and taking turns, or playing stuff split screen. It's so much more fun to hang out in person and game than it is to sit by yourself on a computer or a console and voice chat.

I'm also not a fan of the most popular genres these days... MOBA is boring as fuck and not even remotely interesting, FPS is only fun when it isn't broken and preferably it's co-op rather than pure pvp. MMOs seem like fun in theory but in reality all it is just endless, boring grinding.

I am looking forward to playing Destiny 2 when it comes out for PC later this month only because of the co-op. The original Destiny was fun for a while but also pretty disappointing in many ways. Hopefully I don't get bamboozled again and actually enjoy the game.

12
Gaming Central / Re: PC console
« on: October 03, 2017, 06:39 AM »
Don't even bother with a Steam machine or some overpriced Alienware crap. Just figure out how much power you want / need / can afford and then buy the components separately after shopping around and put it together. It isn't hard, and it will be exactly what you want.

PC gaming shits all over console gaming in most respects. The only thing that console gaming has over PC gaming is the fact that there's some exclusives that are pretty cool, there's less shovelware, and if you are playing a multiplayer game (a FPS for instance) everyone has the same specs, so nobody really gets an advantage as long as internet speeds are relatively equal.

When it comes to multiplayer PC gaming, having a more powerful machine actually does confer an advantage in some games. I play some games with a buddy of mine and he has a really nice PC with multiple monitors, including a 4k @ 120... he will always be calling out enemies to me on the map and I'm looking and can't see them... the 4k resolution helps immensely. Blah blah blah. It really just depends on what kinds of games you want to play. You can easily build something that delivers graphics on par with a PS4 for not that much money. (Relatively speaking.) My laptop is almost 2 years old and is still better than a PS4 in terms of power and loading speed.

Also, if you are serious about gaming, you don't want to play on a normal TV. The refresh rates are garbage on those things. You'll want something with g-sync, or a 4k with the fastest refresh rates. It can be very pricey but it looks amazing. My laptop is only capable of 1920x1080 and after seeing games played with ultra settings on a nice 4k monitor, going back to 1080p looks like shit... lol

The Steam controller is shit and isn't worth buying. You can just use a XB1 controller or dozens of other controllers with your PC. I have some cheap Logitech dual analog controller that is basically a PS3 controller minus the feedback.

My advice if you are considering a gaming PC is don't buy anything pre-packaged. Buy the components separately and make sure that you get a motherboard that will allow you to use the latest technology and be 'future proof' for a while. You'll want as many PCI lanes as you can get for video cards, m2 drives, etc. Also, don't skimp on the power supply, and make sure you have a decent cooling system. I'd say that 16gb of RAM is good enough for just about anything these days, although 32 wouldn't hurt. You'll want to buy the best monitor that you can afford.

If you just want to play some video games and not deal with the hassle, just stick to console. The newer versions of the PS4 and XB1 support 4k.

Last thing - IMO Steam isn't all that great. I'd say that a majority of the games on there are trash. You have to do so much digging to find good stuff, and the good stuff is usually AAA-priced. You can get lots of fun, cheap games but they aren't going to have the most modern graphics and whatnot.



13
General discussion / Re: A thought about WWP
« on: October 03, 2017, 06:16 AM »
I can't remember exact dates and such, but I do remember a time in which WWP was definitely more popular / active than W:A. A very large number of people switched to WWP for quite a while... that is, until some of the W:A updates made it worth switching back, even at the expense of some of the WWP features.

I just think it's a shame that W:A is the game that got updated rather than WWP.

14
General discussion / Re: grouse
« on: October 03, 2017, 06:08 AM »
It definitely seems like people used to be far chattier. Hell, most of Worms is downtime, so what else do you have to do BUT chat?

15
General discussion / A thought about WWP
« on: September 27, 2017, 03:15 PM »
I wonder why WWP never got updated like W:A did?

If we are talking base games, WWP is superior (IMO) to W:A. WWP with the same kinds of updates/patches that W:A has received would be the game to play.

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