Kaos

i will definitely not play this scheme in free league for serveral reasons.

1. i have played 400 tus kaos games now, without this scheme and it was enjoyable.
2. as we played this scheme at kaos world cup 2011, we even haven't finished the groupstage, because of inactivity.
3. everyone said it has too much low gravity and it's not the same and not as good as the normal kaos scheme.

and by the way, the fourth point which is really the worst reason for me here.
no one asked the kaos players if they accept a kaos free league scheme change.
imagine someone would change your beloved scheme, without notice.

change it back.

https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-491/

100% agree with alien, I have thousands kaos games played, believe me /kaosmod2 is the only working mod for kaos, this shit is the wierst scheme ever was made for kaos, I wont play any official game with it in, absolutely disbalanced in all the ways. Put wowwow scheme back, this one just make me laugh, its like playing ttrr without chute, wxw with autoplacment, shopper with random mines, elite with infinity ropes, hyst with nana etc etc etc

Quote from: Impossible on October 16, 2012, 07:24 PM
its like playing  hyst with nana

this scheme is actually known as markosteria

This is the problem with TUS, no one wants to discuss issues until they really have to, I tried to get the discussion going earlier. Well, and of course the discussion should've happened well before Kaos came to rotated league.

I've had much more balanced games with this scheme than any other version, but they should allow for choosing either scheme, I have no idea why this change was made without more thorough discussion. But can you guys give concrete reasons why the wowwow scheme is better please?

In the wowwow scheme, you can pretty much depend on double time or double damage appearing every turn, or every other turn. While knowing how to use DD is an important skill to have, having it available constantly makes skill with regularly powered weapons much less significant, and you don't have to plan moves as accurately. I think people should have to spend more time thinking about combos, rather than just saving up weapons and knowing they can destroy the map in one turn with DD and DT. And sometimes in 2nd or 3rd rounds you can have incredibly short matches due to stockpiled weaps and instantly available DD.

The world cup scheme does have too many fast walks, laser sights, and LG, but it has a better proportion of DD and DT, which is the important thing, and it's not super likely to get both on the same turn. I think the matches tend to require more thought, and they're less clusterf@#!y.

What is "clusterf@#!y"? o0

I see what you mean Mab, but I think people (including me) expect this scheme to be really chaotic because it's Kaos! Double Damage makes it so. I've never played this scheme as seriously as you do, but you are right that too much DD and a serious league game are incompatible things. I would even agree to remove it, but instead I'd like to see inf LG and maybe 1 rope to make games more fair, especially at the begining. There is a scheme by Logan where you have many longbows to build stairs but can't use them to kill worms. I liked it a lot

Quote from: Statik on October 17, 2012, 05:15 AM
What is "clusterf@#!y"? o0

I see what you mean Mab, but I think people (including me) expect this scheme to be really chaotic because it's Kaos! Double Damage makes it so. I've never played this scheme as seriously as you do, but you are right that too much DD and a serious league game are incompatible things. I would even agree to remove it, but instead I'd like to see inf LG and maybe 1 rope to make games more fair, especially at the begining. There is a scheme by Logan where you have many longbows to build stairs but can't use them to kill worms. I liked it a lot

Damn you, i was just digging for something to link in this topic, then you replied with basically all i wanted to say.
Indeed Kaos originally was supposed to be Kaotic, there were no tweaks, it was all balanced coz of high probability for Dx2. The only problem that was destroying the potential was crateshower. But then Dreamtrance and co. were "fixing" the scheme in their league each season, everytime making it even less balanced mainly coz of reducing Dx2 chances, claiming its oficial for some reason. I was never a fan of Kaos being played in any competition, it was great fun on AG making crazy shit all the way through whole map, then it became bitching for double time/dx2 combo and safe playing. So Mab, if you truly search for something less "clusterf@#!y" with sdet, you better try Dario's Rubber Rush. Oh and i dont know what Wowwow's scheme is about, im talking about the original scheme by Mr.Kaos before Kaos League started. Chance for Dx2 was 20% if i remember correctly.

Quote from: Mablak on October 16, 2012, 10:26 PM
This is the problem with TUS, no one wants to discuss issues until they really have to, I tried to get the discussion going earlier. Well, and of course the discussion should've happened well before Kaos came to rotated league.

It's true. Some users complain about something and make a thread all about it but no one from the opposite side post anything. Then when I change things, now the other side users popout like mushrooms.

I changed the scheme because there were complaints about wowwow scheme before and I took Mablak's as the final reminder. I didn't know you guys were in love with it.

Btw, there is no icon for Double Turn Time in the "Utility Probability" block

Quote from: MonkeyIsland on October 17, 2012, 05:51 AM
mushrooms.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CSJWZH9-WM&feature=related

Kaos can still be plenty chaotic, I just don't want double damage to be there every single turn, might as well just overpower all the weapons from the start if you want to play that way.

Another benefit of the world cup scheme; crate spies matter a lot more. Getting them, and preventing your opponent from getting them, helps so that you can get DTs and DDs when they appear, it's another element to think about. Anyway, I don't see a problem with having a more DD and less DD scheme as options.

I like this change because I think the thought process behind it makes sense regardless of the fact kaos is irrelevant for me.

Can we expect the same modus operandis to be applied to other schemes like hysteria, team17, bng or even the tus shopper scheme?

The problem with new schemes (I know kaos has been around for a while, I meant new league schemes) is that they're created by people who are oblivious to league (and that's okay) and usually make them completely imbalanced. Community gets used to them, and then argue when someone wants to improve their beloved funner scheme.

Luck based schemes are not suited for the league, I recently played a bunch of kaos games, and I'd like the stategy to be a bit more advanced than grabbing jp/dd/dt and killing every worm in 1 turn. Not mentioning how important the worm placement is in the early game.
From the quick look at Mablak's scheme it seems that's it's still far from being perfect, and there's still plenty of room for improvement. It has a lot of potential.

I hate chaos. And democracy in tus.

Mablak you just didnt read my post about this bs scheme where I expained every crap it have.

Quote from: Mablak on October 16, 2012, 10:26 PM
The world cup scheme does have too many fast walks, laser sights, and LG, but it has a better proportion of DD and DT, which is the important thing, and it's not super likely to get both on the same turn.

you are absolutely wrong there, just try to get the logic. Chance to get x2 is so much low there that it even make it more unbalanced, if on /kaosmod2 both players get 3-5 x2 on round. Now usually nobody dont get it or only one of players get (100 to 0 chance per player) its wierst shit I ever saw on kaos totally f@#!ed gameplay so sometimes player just dont get double damage at all when somebody get it 1-2 times. Now about Low Gravity, goddamnit I tested 20-25 rounds this scheme, I always have more LG than turns, so even if I stop collecting there is tons lg lg lg lg it pissed me so much that I quit Kaos World Cup because of this scheme and /kaosmod5. if you wanna play without x2 please your opponent to put /kaosmod4 with removed double damage

Maybe you should try to get the Mablak's logic first. He wants to reduce the number of DD crates, but you want both players to get them each games several times? It's cool in funners. In T17 it's hardly possible that both players will get Earth Quake and it can be even more dangerous than DD, but no1 claims to increase it's probability

Quote from: Statik on October 17, 2012, 12:32 PM
Maybe you should try to get the Mablak's logic first. He wants to reduce the number of DD crates, but you want both players to get them each games several times?

dafuq you talking about, reduce the number of x2 to minimum means make it more lucky you just dont understand because you played 50 kaos games in whole life
I dont wanna players get x2 several times, I wanna both players get same emount of x2 and so small probalitities makes it 100:1
jeez im feels like trying to explain why banana is not cool on sh