The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Other Things => Clans & Communities => AeF => Topic started by: Impossible on December 08, 2013, 09:21 PM
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if i stop making topics like this, whats the chance someone will play this game in next 10 years? (c)
Almost every online game with a large number of players has a league which is controlled by the big companies, while small but competitive online games have very primitive leagues, if they have them at all.
So in first case big companies take all the profits for itself while on 2nd case leagues is too small to create the league and the more of it - to get any kind of possible benefit from them.
And well, we are middle way - worms armageddon community: not big enough to attract attention from fat guys who lookin for profit but still big enough to get a decent profit!
So maybe our community is not all that bad? We are big enough to get profit, you can actually play and earn at the same time!
But when it comes to profits, there is one and the same problem on 90% of cases - awful administrator who throws all the money from advertising and other sources of profit in an endless pocket of himselve
But seems like we are lucky again! We got MI, admin which aims to the perfect league, who got fairplay and fun as a main goal!
Often good administrators who created the league with enough players investing alot of money and in a very short period of time their league collapses, simply because something was unbalanced, bad points system, terrible standings, anything! It makes people give up at those leagues.
But not at our case! Tus is working for years without f@#! ups! of course there is complaints, but it happens on any kind of sport, right?
So what we have?
1. Perfect community
2. Perfect administration
3. Perfect league
Perfect conditions for the league. the same as the perfect conditions once appeared on planet Earth by which life arose! So can our league be one of those planets that needs that final push to start the life all around it?
So yea, three of these facts - the key to the success of greatest worms armageddon league for the sake of reason, why we are all still here, huh!
All we need is love small adds on tus -> money that we receive, we will give to league winners -> we tell people that by playing worms they can now earn money -> more people visit tus -> more profit from adds -> and we are infinitely doomed to the endless success of perfect Worms Armageddon League! HAHAHAHA!
As far as I know MI had troubles since its hard to insert adds when you live on Iran, but there is whole community ready to help, any member of DOS can help you next moment if you ask them! So yea, whats the main problem of this idea MI, is there any way we can help you?
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Small amounts of money are not going to draw large amounts of people in. Especially when the people realize they are not playing new game with prizes, where they can practice and win, but in an entrenched league with 14 years of game history against players they have no shot of beating. I'm sorry guys, I feel like these impo/static threads are very well intentioned, but this game is as promoted as it ever will be with the recent steam inclusion and humble bundle. Small cash prizes for winning the league aren't changing anything. If MI gets any $$$, he needs to pocket every cent for his own uses.
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It's so sad but I think the same as walrua, awards for win won't change anything. Majority of people(like about 98%) dont play for money but play to derive fun from the game
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W:A is a counter-culture in the games world, because:
-2d game
-15+ years old game
-system requirements is well, any pc that barely turns on
-an original disk may cost less than a pack of toilet paper
-we lack the sense of competition as it is in world championship
-we love each other so much that we give up competition to just have fun, even avi's loves komo!
-Our girlfriend's would be ashamed to know we play such game
-the game's most popular league is hosted in Iran by a monkey :)
-the developer is bankrupt
(...) what else?
Impossible, Mission Impossible.
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Im actually proud of our community... i mean, worms armageddon was released in 1999... and we are almost in 2014.
15 years in technology is a very long time, and in gaming even more.
Anyway, I think tus is perfect, the rank system, challenges, cups, maps/schemes, forum, etc... its just perfect. I think T17 or whoever is incharge of updating the game could add a few things to make the game more attractive to new players (for example, coloured nicks on wormnet or ingame, customize your worms, etc), there are little and nonsense changes, but i think they will make a difference.
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One thing, and only this one thing that is being wished since its fall in 2000, would make this game celebrate a new BIG BANG:
WORMNET RANKS ARE BACK!
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By now I don't think even ranks would bring back more than a handful of players - it could've had a nice impact if they had brought them back in 2005 or so. It's a nice running gag though. :D
And I thought the money from ads thing was already discussed in another thread? What more is there to say than the amount of money TUS could gain from ads is too low to be a proper prize money? ???
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Impo, if you need money, go to work xD
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Impo, if you need money, go to work xD
+1
true, dude
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What more is there to say than the amount of money TUS could gain from ads is too low to be a proper prize money? ???
who said you this? on best times of tus we could gain around ~700$ per season, do you think its too low? :\
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700 dolars - ok am in !
....but where u ll find this sum ?
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it was explained many times, we'll add adds
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it was explained many times, we'll add adds
Idk this is gonna work. Playing worms is not that easy like other games, new players need some week/months to learn to rope (it took me 6 or 7 months to train my crappy roping).
If we are trying this, we should create an intermediate league or intermediate/t17/shopper league and see if is gonna work.
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Great posts Spider, both of them made me laugh. Even the last about WN ranks because I was thinking about how much waste of energy and time people have spend on discussing @the ranks through the years :P
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lol@hard to beat pros? every newbie can practise hyst in one month and beat any pro, and also its obvious that we can divide money to best players in every scheme, or invent something like that.
seems like everyone is rich here and dont need money at all? keep adding worms on ttrr and some awful functions on bng like /ts /sdet /rubber /speed150, thats the only change you are capable of
/thread
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WA won't make you rich anyway xD
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ea bring most of the oldschool that tus can't bring without money.
If it can bring back these guys, it's a valid reason by itself to bring money into tus imo.
My only concern is people trying to cheat/noob bash and all these lame stuff it will also bring.
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about which oldschool guys are you talking? the same who will come back to tus later this year even theres no money? as you can see its not a matter of money, its simply a matter of time and bigger motivation to have skillfull games within a small group where u know what you got, instead of playing random guys on tus which are maybe just annoying.
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People quit, thats what happens in every game. They get replaced by new guys though. Noobs at first, but they will grow to become the new leets.
I think the biggest challenge for us atm is to deal with a problem very specific to WA: the variety of schemes.
In pretty much all other games the game modes are similar or require skills that are similar (in shooters there's things like deathmatch, ctf, assault, last man standings, etc. etc., but they are all pretty much the same: shoot the other guys and you win). In WA the schemes are all so different, and it's near impossible to keep up with all of them (i think there's maybe 1 or just 0 guy(s) out there that own every single scheme in classic + freeleague).
IMO we could do a good job by messing around with the schemes-selection a little.
First off, by limiting the number of schemes in classic league to 5. Five schemes that have proven to be well-balanced and... well, schemes that are just good for online competition.
For example:
1.Elite
2.Roper
3.Team17 with 1 standard homing missile
4.Shopper (I'm against wxw cause the maps are boring & support map whoring, but this new shopper should be played on say 10 official maps that are twice the size of the normal ones, to still make it challenging rope-wise, while staying true to the base skill of the scheme: knocking worms and using a variety of weapons from rope).
5.Hysteria... (so far we've failed to make this scheme perfect, but its most popular and perhaps we will one day find a way to avoid the obvious flaws).
IMO, it's still a good all-round league this way. The schemes are popular and it leaves out some annoying 1 or 2 weapons schemes, like BnG (whose skills are needed in hyst/elite), WxW (Shopper/roper) & TTRR (roper).
IMO those 3 aren't super for league play. BnG is often lame and repetitive (also, not popular), WxW has, as I mentioned, map whoring issues.. and is just generally boring imo cause of the flat levels... and TTRR... it's a great scheme, but IMO it's too skill-based. It doesn't really help the competition when it's often so obvious who the winner will be. IMO TTRR is better off being used for challenges and similar cups. (I do agree though, that if we kick it out we must find a way to make the TTRR-competition more interesting. I'm thinking for example about 1-hour challenges. (map gets announced at a certain date/time, after that everyone's got 1 hour to submit a time. At the end of it standings are published and points are added to the TTRR standings).
Freeleague can stay as it is, or even include the classic schemes as well, so it's truly FFA.
Apart from these... maybe just TRL? Or maybe 1 league of rope schemes and 1 of default schemes?
IMO it will help competition a lot to make the league simple like that. And it doesnt really cut down on the variety of schemes you can play. Cause there's still freeleague + ability to host cups in any scheme.
It will also help counter avoiding and playing pointless draws (clan A often picks scheme clan B sucks at, and then B picks someting A hates... it's not a good way to keep people motivated).
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again?
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Your last awesome idea to make W:A more active was provoking Asbest at any opportunity during WO, Impo. We all know how that turned out.
I still think offering money to the winner is a terrible, terrible idea. Couple of reasons.
My only concern is people trying to cheat/noob bash and all these lame stuff it will also bring.
That.
+ even if you do attract people because of the lure of the vast amounts of money (lol), they will quickly go away, because there are only a couple of winners and the rest just wastes their time. It's far easier to win money at (for example) poker than at worms - more tournaments, more chances to win prizes, more prize money.
W:A still attracts people because it has tight controls and big possibilities in schemes. Don't like elite? You can play roper or RR. Don't like that either? Play T17. That's not your thing either? Try bungeerace. Are you more of a masochist? Try abnormal. Etcetera, etcetera.
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Shopper (I'm against wxw cause the maps are boring & support map whoring, but this new shopper should be played on say 10 official maps that are twice the size of the normal ones, to still make it challenging rope-wise, while staying true to the base skill of the scheme: knocking worms and using a variety of weapons from rope).
I agree, a hard shopper map is better than wxw, it requires speed, strategy, skills using weapons and knocking. WxW is just speed..
Anyway we should wait until next worms olympics before change anything... WO are a great chance to bring new players to leagues
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BTW, who is the guy that will click the ads anyway?
Or are we supposed to click 20 ads per day?
Where's my bitcoin for doing that?
Money for worming and chicks for free is a dire straight dream :P
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BTW, who is the guy that will click the ads anyway?
Or are we supposed to click 20 ads per day?
Where's my bitcoin for doing that?
Money for worming and chicks for free is a dire straight dream :P
Lol its true, im sure that 70% of players here are using addblock
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What more is there to say than the amount of money TUS could gain from ads is too low to be a proper prize money? ???
who said you this? on best times of tus we could gain around ~700$ per season, do you think its too low? :\
For those talking about the big cash from adverts, I found a nice and pretty recent article (http://www.reliablesoft.net/can-you-still-make-money-with-adsense/) about Google AdSense. I don't know how much traffic TUS generates but the author says "I don’t usually advise my clients to run AdSense on websites that have less than 300-400 unique visits per day" - which I personally doubt TUS currently has. I could be wrong though.
Edit: Not to mention the website needs to be generally popular on Google. I don't know how many people google "worms armageddon league" every day but I have a feeling that it's not a lot. :-X
Anyway how do you back up your claim of $700 per season? I don't think that's peanuts, no, but I think it's very far from reality.
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The problems are not really W:A itself and it's mechanics, I believe they are pretty damn excellent, graphics are 2D which is okay since retro is "in", I think it's rather the age of the game and the lack of motivation it gives to competitive players. Most active ambitious players that wanna go pro with a game rather do so on new games where everyone starts out even. Who would seriously waste at least 1 year on a game to get a shot at the prize it offers? I wouldn't. For example the LoL,HoN,Dota2 stuff, there is no way I wanna play it at all if I would aim to get some money off of gaming, I would rather wait for the new Blizzard game and then start there so at least the meta-game, game flow etc. is fresh for everyone. Sure, the players that played LoL dota2 etc. will still have an edge over me but they don't know the game inside out. The same applies to W:A, if Worms is gonna get big esports-wise it will ONLY happen when T17 releases a good Worms game with smooth game systems and mechanics like W:A has. We would familiarize faster than the other dudes that never played W:A, but they wouldn't need to catch up 15 years!
The money introduced tu TUS would just attract grief-play, bad behavior, drama and more work for TUS staff.
I know it sounds bad but W:As zenith has passed long ago if you want to "earn" money with it, to be exact it had it's peak when german ESL and GIGA promoted it, you missed that? Sucks to be a newbie. xD j/k
Just go play the various Shooters, dotas for some money, even Hearthstone a simple cardgame had already a 5k prize-pool tournament.
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And also would be nice if you share some tus stats (unique visitors per day and pages loaded per day)
According to Google Analytics, TUS has average of 300 unique visitors per day. According to TUS, at least 150 users log in per day.
For the last month we've had 78% returning users and 22% new visitors.
The pageview stats of Google Analytics is much different from TUS stats itself.
Around 10k hits per day (we've had a decrease in the past month to 6k) while TUS's goes over 50k. (TUS is counting search engines too)
Right now: 59 Guests, 15 Users (30 Spiders)
and thats wo times, now activity is much bigger. atm we can get like 300$ a month from small adds, season takes 2 months so its 300x2=600$
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Just go play the various Shooters, dotas for some money, even Hearthstone a simple cardgame had already a 5k prize-pool tournament.
lol, i dont aim at money from video games, i just want to make W:A popular again
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Idk this is gonna work. Playing worms is not that easy like other games, new players need some week/months to learn to rope (it took me 6 or 7 months to train my crappy roping).
I agree with Turko
Maybe a new player can beat a pro in a fun game, but i dont belive it in a league game. Need a lot of practice.
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Just go play the various Shooters, dotas for some money, even Hearthstone a simple cardgame had already a 5k prize-pool tournament.
lol, i dont aim at money from video games, i just want to make W:A popular again
This is as popular as W:A gets, it is released in Steam, it even had a humble sale, it was promoted with Streams, everything was done except pumping money into the league which I just explained why it would not attract more players, at least not to the extent you may think it would do. :O
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In for a prepared statement from a member of the Worms Armageddon Regeneration Project
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noob bashing?
against noob bashing we would have match making
no chance to win against the biggest players?
other players need 15 years to catch the pros?
top players would compete in pro leagues/tournaments that have bigger prizepool, and beginners could compete in beginner leagues/tournaments that would also have prizepool but not as big, and prevent player from competing in both pro and beginner, someone could only either participate in the beginner or pro stuff
obviously there would need to be more than 2 tiers...
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noob bashing?
against noob bashing we would have match making
no chance to win against the biggest players?
other players need 15 years to catch the pros?
top players would compete in pro leagues/tournaments that have bigger prizepool, and beginners could compete in beginner leagues/tournaments that would also have prizepool but not as big, and prevent player from competing in both pro and beginner, someone could only either participate in the beginner or pro stuff
Oh and what stops me from making a new account and pretend to be newb? You know it's not that hard to actually alias and suck a bit here and there. Money would attract such behavior, trust me.
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u r right, it is a major flaw
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I am just pointing out the massive work that would be ahead when money is involved for the TUS staff. There are things currently not seen in our community because it's chilled and relaxed without money. And even now we had these crazy amounts of drama occurring, just need to check old threads. xD
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first off HHC-
"Five schemes that have proven to be well-balanced and... well, schemes that are just good for online competition."
your list of schemes suits your likes, and needs... i cant believe you say wxw is more of a map whore scheme then shoppa... i dont rly see anyone abusing wxw's maps too much (im not saying it doesnt happen) but shoppa! holy shit!! you have the most notorious shoppa map whore in your clan... its actually sick how much he abuses maps.. do i need to mention names???
and are you really putting hysteria in your list of well balanced and good online competition?? i wont even go there...
but, those are your opinions... if you asked me to make a list of 5, it would be different, if you ask statik to make a list it would be different, if you asked monkeyisland to make list it would be different, and so on...
on topic: you guys are missing the point, your acting as if Impossible wants to introduce money, so he can quit his job, and start a happy life with a beautiful wife, 3 kids, a dog, and a picket fence.. lol.. i hardly think thats the case, the value is no the motivation in any way
currently there is NOTHING bringing people to worms, even if they see if available for purchase, who the hell really wants to buy it? but if we had nice cash prizes, maybe it would bring people to the game, being that they see we have an organized community.... because atm we just seem like a community of oldschoolers that refuse to give up on an old game... and sure, that is exactly what we are... which is exactly why we need to take a step in this direction, if we are not going to give up on the game, then lets take steps to improve it...
the money will not motivate people to stay, the game itself will!! the money will just motivate people to try it (and hopefully many oldschoolers to come back)
i know when i first started playing years ago, i was intrigued by roping, i knew i was months and months, behind in roping, and i played every second i could to catch up... and i believe all newbs are like that, once they see the skill level, they will wanna learn.... the money will motivate them to do it quicker.. but we need something to draw them here.. and not just a sale on steam.
ofc we can all sit here and think of negative things that will come along with money in the league, but thats a given... with any positive situation, there will be some negative outcomes... but does the negative out weigh the positive?? i dont think so...
not to mention... what exactly do we have to lose?? if MI puts banners on the site, as i mentioned in another thread he can keep a percentage of the money, after all he has more then earned it... and a percentage can go to clan league, and a percentage to singles... what is there to lose?? lets say less then 10 oldschoolers come back, and less then 10 new unique players join tus... whats the problem?? we have more competition, and more skilled games....
my winnings would be divided between MonkeyIsland, DeadCode, and Cybershadow... maybe sending them a nice chunky donation would motivate quicker updates.. that would also benefit the game...
oh yah, and dt would all be getting new KB's season 1 :p
so yeah... money will own... the pros > cons
sorry for long post.
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+1 avi
you just wrote what am I too lazy to write
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Just one thing about the money. Will we agree on clicking the damn ads as a whole to make up money for ourselves?
It's almost a cooperative agreement hehehe
Is that it? Because if there are no seriously clicks and important info related, and also clicks inside the sites that openned, there won't be a party with a few pennys.
I did a quick research: how many clicks is needed in adsense to check in $100
"That's a question that a majority of people would not get right.
Put it this way if you get $0.03 per click on average it would take 3,3333333... clicks to earn $100
But if you earned $1 per click it would take 100 clicks. Notice the big difference in the amounts. In other woulds it varies depending on your niche, how much you earn per click, if you also have cpm ads on your website, etc."
I think it could work hehe...
Now i need to go back to work before I get caught.
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I would say W:A is really niche, so if it takes thousands of clicks to generate 100$ I am not sure that we have so many unique visitors.
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the 2 people with most knowledge of pro gaming imo are darkz and anubis. if they see conern they should be listened. all i know is:
if you analyze tus-wa.com on some analyzers who try to find out the value of your homepage:
- great technique, gj MI there
- in all other categories (like clicks, visitors etc) this page is ranked very low
dunno if it means something.anyway im sure MonkeyIsland, DeadCode, and Cybershadow will be happy when they can share 2$ earings from avirex between each other. i guess this price is rather realistic than 100$
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It doesn't take a pro gamer to conclude that even if TUS was littered with ads, it is too unpopular to generate any serious profit. You are not going to attract thousands of new wormers by promising a couple of work days worth of money for winning a season ;)
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We are not pro-gamer, but we somewhat follow pro gaming scene. :P
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Who is going to advertise all these huge cash prizes? We are just going to pass it along with word of mouth? Or hope that someone that googles "play games for a living" ends up on www.tus-wa.com? I've said it once and I will say it again. There isn't any money for league prizes, the only money that is generated is MI's, it's not up to you to spend it by committee. Has anyone even asked him, "Hey, by the way, want to go ahead and f@#! up your website that you have put so much work into with adverts? Just so you can make a few dollars which you are then responsible to find a way to pay to the winner of the league every month?" If he really wanted to do it, he would have done it a long time ago when he mentioned it might be an option.
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Nice post Walrus, I wholeheartedly agree with that!
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lmao guys do you understand what you are saying? how many years of experience you have with advertising on websites and blogs? judging by your words - zero.
there won't be a party with a few pennys.
didnt read your post after these words, but do you realize that most of the money doesnt come from clicks but from views?
you can smite me all day long but last posts on this topic doesnt make any sense at all, its just set of words about unknown subject.
100$ sounds unreal? you gotta be kidding me lmfao, tus got 10k hits per day and you think it cant gain 100$ in two f@#!ing months? Jesus I dont even want to respond to this nonsense on this thread you all just wrote, and I never will anymore because you are just trying to prove that it will not work without any solid reason
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first off HHC-
"Five schemes that have proven to be well-balanced and... well, schemes that are just good for online competition."
your list of schemes suits your likes, and needs... i cant believe you say wxw is more of a map whore scheme then shoppa... i dont rly see anyone abusing wxw's maps too much (im not saying it doesnt happen) but shoppa! holy shit!! you have the most notorious shoppa map whore in your clan... its actually sick how much he abuses maps.. do i need to mention names???
Yeah, I suppose that when it's up to me it's schemes I like to play myself that I'll pick, but still I think have good reason to ditch the schemes that I left out.
WxW is more a map whoring scheme because in WxW it actually matters on which map you play. If you play it often, you're bound to be at least 5 secs faster in the first 10 turns than the opponent. Same for TTRR. In shopper the only benefit is that you know where its smart not to hide or where you can get stuck.. things that most players can see at first glance neway.
I have told Chelsea not to map whore btw. But yeah.. its not like we play on the same map over and over and over. There's at least 10 or so that we rotate. IMO there aren't that many good alternative maps neway, not in my folders anyway, though Peja says there's 10000's good ones.
and are you really putting hysteria in your list of well balanced and good online competition?? i wont even go there...
That's why I included the part that said it was flawed and needed fixing, but that so far we've failed to come up with anything decent (which is true). I left it in cause it's by far the most popular scheme + it's unique in the classic league. It can't be easily replaced the way WxW can by Roper/regular shop.
but, those are your opinions... if you asked me to make a list of 5, it would be different, if you ask statik to make a list it would be different, if you asked monkeyisland to make list it would be different, and so on...
This may be true, but we can always find a compromise? Or even vote about it?
The point is, a 5-scheme league is easier for everyone. People wouldnt need to master all this weird freeleague-kinda business, but be able to stick to mastering just 5 basic, challenging schemes. And what's more, games will be more interesting cause it's much harder to pick a scheme that the opponent sucks at. 1-1's won't occur so often anymore.
And let's not forget, BnG should f'ing die.
on topic: you guys are missing the point, your acting as if Impossible wants to introduce money, so he can quit his job, and start a happy life with a beautiful wife, 3 kids, a dog, and a picket fence.. lol..
A PS3 you mean?
p.s.: its not about money, it's about e-penis. Whether EAC gives out 500$ or just 50$, it doesnt really make a difference. It's really only about beating Random and slapping Mab in the face.
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peja: because anubis and darkz are into heavy online gaming, we should all take their advice that it may cause more cheating, and drama???
well no shit... thats the case with anything... if i go play a game of basketball with my boys, we are all having fun... if we throw 20 bux on a game with some other dudes... shits getting real.. i might throw an elbow, ill f@#!ing pump up my L.A gear pumps, so i can jump higher, and i will no doubt call fouls when they barely touched me...
so we need an NBA player to come here and tell us these facts?? or is it common sense??
anyway... as Impo said, you guys are all talking shit with no facts, "tus cant generate enough money" how do you know? where are your facts? whats the problem with trying?? what will it hurt if it does not work...
even if the ads generate less then 10 dollars for an entire year.. whats the big problem? you will have a couple idiots saying "OMG I TOLD YOU SO!! im the most e-LEET" but then MI can decide if he wants to keep the ads and make 10 bux a year or get rid of them...
but if we do earn more money, and i dont know either way, i just hope that we do... then wtf, we can do good things with the money...
and to answer your question Walrus, this is not the first time this thread has came up... MonkeyIsland is on board with the idea (unless anything has changed since last thread) he has researched, and i believe he thinks it can be profitable, and beneficial for the league, and the game as well... (and even his pockets)
as Impo said, he is having trouble getting things going because the country he lives in, i believe... and thats why Impo opened the thread, to keep the discussion rolling, and to offer help...
ill sum up this topic:
fact cons: people might cheat
opinion cons: peja and the rest of you blindly leading each other into believing there is only 2 dollars to be earned.
pros: monkeyisland can earn money for all his time, singles league can earn money, clan league can earn money, cash tournaments, prizes etc.
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I agree with you impo. Is there any SEO professional here ? Does playing video game give you knowledge about it ? I have my doubt.
I very like this (http://nickstraffictricks.com/7764_how-much-traffic-do-you-need-to-earn-100/) article and also this (http://www.wordstream.com/blog/ws/2012/07/17/google-advertising) one.
That being said, we could try it for one month and see how many revenues/drama it creates (like a new experimental season).
Judging by it we can chose either to continue it or not. We can help MI set up everything and we can force people to use paypall if they want the money (ask it on the register part).
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Oooh impo got some cash by ads, experienced ads boy :D
What are your result$ by far?
Lay down your anger, boy. I'm not taking it personally.
Save it for the governament.
I'm not experienced with ads, and I don't pretend I am either.
It could work, like I said before. Why not trying it... can't disagree!
But there won't be a party here with a few pennys or bucks.
If a player win 10$ for winning a season, that would be cool, really.
But that is not the big party that is being announced.
Weighting the facts...
MI and CS could get sth in return and that's what I see positive, like avi said.
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One of the goal I can see is that people will be more satisfied by winning a season even if it is 10 bucks it counts in my opinion.
Just to give you a quick example, I'm going to run sunday a race. I know there will be prizes and I don't know what prizes it will be. Even if it is one tshirt or one free meal it gives me a higher motivation to do my best. I didn't sign up because of it but it gives me higher motivation to know that I will have a award if I do good.
I believe the analogy with tus would be the same. In my opinion, it won't bring that much new player but for the one who plays it, it will give an additional thrill. My only worries (and big one) is really these cheater/avoider/lame players. Lately, there hasn't been that much drama regarding complain I believe. Give it a try, see if people don't ruin it and see where it goes.
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so MI should put effort into adding ads on tus etc and all give all $$$ income to players? genious xD
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thank you spider: thats the main thing, LETS TRY!!
it cant hurt anything to try, if it does not generate enough money to give cash prize on leagues, then f@#! it.. Monkeyisland just earned a couple bux, and then he can decide if he wants to keep the ads for little profit, or do away with them....
the point is, lets try it... we have absolutely nothing to lose, and everything to gain...
sure, there will be a bit more complaints, and maybe cheating... but i dont think it will be an extensive amount.. the small player base we have now are mostly all pretty mature about league, and i dont think money is going to change that... thats not speaking for everyone.
and if money attracts more people, that will only translate into more money.. and most options/possibilities..
as long as monkeyisland still supports this idea, we should take steps to make this happen...
and statik, this has all been discussed in another thread... i talked about have a group of guys a "committee" to decide how the money is divided, obviously MonkeyIsland is a part of that group, and he obviously would have the final say...
but i think 50% to clans, 25% to singles, 25% to house...
also: not everyone will want the money, or even be able to accept it.. maybe they wont have paypal, or not 18.... then they can decide how and where they want the money to go... example: reN wins season 1, hes not old enough to collect, but maybe he can have a roper cup, or a roper tourney in his name, and the winner recieves cash prize from ren.... or maybe he wants the money to go to Monkey, or maybe DC+CS... the possibilites are endless, and will create more good then harm :X
im hoping to hear from MI here.
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Wasn't the initial goal to introduce money into the league so more players join? Of course you guys will play W:A competitive for money because you actually have a shot at the reward and you play it anyway. But a new player won't be motivated to learn W:A, especially since the skill cap is rather high in W:A, maybe even so high that it is counter productive.
If you guys just need motivation to play W:A then go for it but to think it will attract new players is rather unlikely, just saying. :)
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i dont think there is any one goal, that are several goals... or, perks to the situation, to say it better...
attracting new players will happen with money.... im not saying people will be flocking, and steam is going to have an overload of buyers :D
but even if it attracted 5 unique players, and 3 oldschoolers, i would say thats a win... do you not agree??
do you and darkz agree? ;p
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I never claimed to be an expert at this kind of stuff, I only read into some articles and none of them said it's very useful to have adverts on a website which isn't popular on Google and generally has the same visitors (not many unique clicks).
I'd actually be happy if I was wrong though, may as well give it a try. I just don't want people to raise their hopes too much because it's not unlikely that you're gonna be disappointed.
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It's a win.
The question just remains if the additional work for TUS staff is worth it. What's with people that use adblock, do they get a shot at the prize, how to detect them? What's with the people that don't want ads. What's with the people that don't want to play with money. The community can get split between ppl that play leagues for money and some without. The activity could drop. how to handle cheaters?, is noob bashing allowed? Do we need scheduled match ups so ppl cant noob bash? The list doesn't stop there though. There's more to this then just "get money/ads and done". :-X
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yeah darkz, i dont know what this site will generate for money, no1 does...
its unfair for impo to say 700, i believe thats unrealistic, and its unfair for peja to say 2 dollars, thats also unrealistic...
but, as we are all agreeing finally, its worth a try...
anubis: is the work worth it? thats for monkey to decide, he seemed interested in the last topic... he has no posted here yet... hopefully soon ;D
cant detect adblock i guess, and yes they still get a shot at the prize.. hopefully for the sake of the community every removes adblock for tus website, i would even make sure to click the damn ads each visit, why not? takes 5 seconds out of my life? no problem.
ppl that dont wanna play with money: i already said, those ppl can decline the prize, or donate it to something else they see fit... Monkey, DC + CS, Tournaments, hell.. steps even wants donations, hes done alot of work for the community.. plenty of places that money can go, if someone does not want it.
how to handle cheaters: the same way we do now.
is noob bashing allowed: of course it is, you will just get a name for yourself, the community will start calling your chelsea... and then you just get cock slapped in PO's if you even make it.
the list does not stop, but theres alway solutions :X
anyway: i guess im over involved in this topic, just because its something i would really like to see happen... even if it brings no new users, it would bring back people like random, and mablak.. and thats a win for our community alone!
and it would most deff. make the game live longer....
but, theres rly not much more to say here, MonkeyIslands post is the only one that matters now
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but, theres rly not much more to say here, MonkeyIslands post is the only one that matters now
That's the only conclusion we can make! :)
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well avi lets use our 100$ example.
curently we have usually running: Classic (Singles/Clans) TeL or HAL, TRL + every now and then Free league.
i guess it makes sense to pay not only the winner. so you also need to pay runner ups and maybe league winners. maybe even all po participants in clans.
u want to give 25 % to the house
75$ left
lets say we pay just league winners and runner ups and season winners, you will realize pretty soon theres not much left.
and well about attracting people everything is said. you rather attrackt guys like asbest instead of bringing back someone like almog. when i think at some special clan i dont wanna imagine how they turn if they could just earn 5$. im not a against a try, but cut down your high expectations. im quite sure not much will change besides its getting a bit nasty in leagues and maybe the skilllevel will slightly grow. not the worst thing but poor twy haha.
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If we go with cash, which IMO isn't needed.. it's better to stick to 1 league at the start IMO.
Will put some interest in that specific league while you can check out how much effect the prize money has on general TUS activity.
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peja, this is not a the german government :p or a charity
we dont have to pay every participant, second place does not even have to have money...
1st place takes all imo... specially with a low pot...
or we can let our money grow, and do a special 2 month season once a year for cash with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th all getting a piece of the pie... i mean, we have so many options.... did you ever consider that my expectations are not high? it could be yours that are low, because your being very close minded about the entire thing.
and if your referring to dt as the special clan u dont want to imagine how they will turn?? i can guarantee you wont see any difference in the way we play.. you may just see a bit more of mablak, and i know there are some whinny little girls who cant complain enough about mablak being skilled, and in dt (omg) but... thats life.
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1st place takes all imo... specially with a low pot...
That isn't fair to those GREAT players with HUGE accomplishments that don't necessarily include winning league titles:
(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=Classic&text2=3)(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=Free&text2=10)(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=TRL&text2=8)(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=HAL&text2=3)
Only Chelsea won 4 Season Trophies in 4 different leauges :)
How about some $$$ for most clan matches won by an individual? That would be more fair IMO.....
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My official offer to MI:
Reopen TEL for 3 seasons in a row and I donate 100$ for each TEL season. Also TUS gets 50$, once. Meaning a total of 350$.
My offer is open for next 10 days. Talk about it with your admin crew and take your time. :)
Worms never die! 8)
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well thats a no brainer!!
open TEL MI!!
ill compete in those seasons!!
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My official offer to MI:
Reopen TEL for 3 seasons in a row and I donate 100$ for each TEL season. Also TUS gets 50$, once. Meaning a total of 350$.
My offer is open for next 10 days. Talk about it with your admin crew and take your time. :)
Worms never die! 8)
That's not the way to do it SPW :( What admin crew? MI is almost on his own running the league, the only help he get is from DarkOne and maybe darkmaul (?) at the moment. I think it would benefit the league and community more if we helped out in person, rather then push money into it. I doubt MI will even consider that offer
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1st place takes all imo... specially with a low pot...
That isn't fair to those GREAT players with HUGE accomplishments that don't necessarily include winning league titles:
(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=Classic&text2=3)(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=Free&text2=10)(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=TRL&text2=8)(https://www.tus-wa.com/image/?type=trophy&position=2&text=HAL&text2=3)
Only Chelsea won 4 Season Trophies in 4 different leauges :)
How about some $$$ for most clan matches won by an individual? That would be more fair IMO.....
lol @ chelsea :DDD
and walrus, that would kill activity... ppl would really pick and choose who they play clanners with in their team... chelsea would never find a clan mate lol
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My official offer to MI:
Reopen TEL for 3 seasons in a row and I donate 100$ for each TEL season. Also TUS gets 50$, once. Meaning a total of 350$.
My offer is open for next 10 days. Talk about it with your admin crew and take your time. :)
Worms never die! 8)
That's not the way to do it SPW :( What admin crew? MI is almost on his own running the league, the only help he get is from DarkOne and maybe darkmaul (?) at the moment. I think it would benefit the league and community more if we helped out in person, rather then push money into it. I doubt MI will even consider that offer
Well, its all about activity. And a league with cash prizes would do that for sure. So my offer is a good help for TUS. 50$ for other costs, rest for TEL.
If I dont get a yes, we probably do our own ea pro league but then we take all the people away from tus site. And thats not my main idea. :)
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Yes to SPW! I'm activating TEL and thanks a lot for the offer :)
I'm in a big rush now, I'll reply to the topic later.
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Cool! :)
I will send the 50$ today on tus paypal account.
TEL winners will get their money directly via paypal transfer from myself. More details you will see in a seperate topic created soon. :)
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wooo wooooo!!! nice man
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am i the only one who is worried when league decisions are based on someone donating money?
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Sure.
I'll donate 150 if you kick BnG, WxW and TTRR out of classic. ;D
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am i the only one who is worried when league decisions are based on someone donating money?
Corruption!
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I'll donate 500 if HHC will promise to learn these schemes xD
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you act as if SPW is asking for something corrupt, nice word anubz :D
hes asking for TEL to be brought back.. im not sure if MonkeyIslans main motivation in accepting was for a donation, or for cash prize to winners, which increases tus activity...
either way, what do you expect, a vote? im sure 99% would vote in favor of a couple nice seasons of TEL with cash reward...
to answer your question, i think your the only one who is worried peja :X
im pretty confident MI would have accepted that offer, even without a 50 dollar donation, not to mention.. i feel he would do the same for any scheme... if some one was willing to donate large cash prize for a season of TRL, i would imagine MI would let them choose the scheme.
edit: peja, why do you seem so against cash being introduced to TUS?? do you really think cheating is going to have such a dramatic increase that its not worth it?? because that seems to be the only big concern here... unless i missed something
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OMG I am very worried about all this money stuff on tus.
I want to win that prize but I got little time to practise and regain skills :P
Most of us are grown up, we have business, job, studies and all life reality upon us, at least on myself but I assume I'm not alone, but I must admit that being here once in while, checking the website and all related is such a pleasure. Who cares about some drama, trolling, nerds on pc... We will still say HAVE FUN at the beginning of every game!!!
Imagine all of this back in 2006-2008, maybe I wouldn't have left the game for so many years.
FB was a house of drama, almost a novel, do you remember?
Thanks a lot MonkeyIsland for such a great website and a peaceful spirit!!
Deadcode & Cybershadow for keeping the game alive and kicking!!!
And SPW for providing an incentive to keep this alternative universe a place of happiness and belonging.
I just hope it will remain such a nice place and that is something we must pursue!
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here are 350 $. you can either take the money and do me a little favor or i will take my nice money, make a new pro league and hurt tus-wa.com. i really wouldnt like the second option.
seriously wtf?
i know spw is a great guy and he doesnt have any bad intentions with this. and ofc he has a passion for elite so this money is for tel. its just about activating a league but well i have moral concerns when i read such things.
@ avi: for sure it will increase cheating, its just a normal result. we already had people cheating in a just for fun league, what do you expect if you are able to earn 100$ and you are from a poor country and your nick is kaleu xD? joke aside, i guess you get my point.
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I m not worry about cheating at elite. It would be so obvious since we know all elite players pretty good.
Peja, money means power and you can have everything in the world for money, almost at least. So for me it was just smart to take that offer. And you are right, I just want the best for worms and esp. elite in that case. No interest to hurt tus or anything around.
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That's not the way to do it SPW :( What admin crew? MI is almost on his own running the league, the only help he get is from DarkOne and maybe darkmaul (?) at the moment. I think it would benefit the league and community more if we helped out in person, rather then push money into it. I doubt MI will even consider that offer
You can hardly accuse SPW of not putting his personal time in doing stuff for WA though :) He gets shit done!
Though I am wondering if he owns a bank in switzerland ;D
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Alright, I just say this only one time. I wouldnt do this if I didnt have it. So, no more words about my financial relationship in the future. ;)
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Well that's true D1, he does get things done! It's nice to see how much you care about elite SPW, and very kind of you donating this amount of money.
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Peja, money means power and you can have everything in the world for money, almost at least. So for me it was just smart to take that offer. And you are right, I just want the best for worms and esp. elite in that case. No interest to hurt tus or anything around.
im sure u want the best for elite. but im not sure if your actions are the best for worms. you take away the focus from allround to a specific scheme. roping was alreay left behind in leagues (we have tel/hal = 2 default leagues, and trl which gets voted) so far you still had some kind of main focus on classic league where rope schemes are needed to compete succesfully (in playoffs, not in league, Hi Chelsea). theres a reason why LeBron James is the king of Basketball and not Roy Hibbert. he is simply the best considering all aspects of the game while Roy is awesome in his specific role.
when i look at wa its only possible to make money with elite, beeing a good allrounder is useless considering the financial aspect. Ofc u want to decide for what u spend your money and its your good right. but dont act like you are not driven by your personal preference. you tried to give me a lecture in capitalism, maybe you will understand all you do is some kind of special government aid to support a specific secture to make it more competetive on the market. so if you really want the best for wa, why do you pay Roy Hibbert more than LBJ?
ps: an active tel is a good thing for tus and its really great you push it. and i really admire what you do for this community, thanks a lot. but i dont think pushing elite instead of the allround league is the best thing for our community.
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I personally, take this tel season as a test. To see compared to previous season if we got people coming back and more activity. I don't think anyone said about giving up the whole advertisement to get money for the classic league.
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For the rope side of things, do the same for TRL this season! :P
But seriously, if this brings a lot of players to TEL this season, even I might play it/try to get better at elite!
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It's awesome to see Peja saying such things because you know he is actually worried considering that he is not the best at rope yet still sees the greater picture. :)