The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
One-Boards => Challenges Comments => Topic started by: DarkOne on January 27, 2013, 07:52 PM
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As promised during the stream, here's TCB challenge #33, made by MrTPenguin!
Good luck :)
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I miss tcb )=
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can we watch how others complete this
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oh really it interesting :)
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can we watch how others complete this
Shouldn't be the case until the challenge expires.
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I realize it's nowhere near the record, just want to start things off. First try after figuring it out, anyway.
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can we watch how others complete this
Shouldn't be the case until the challenge expires.
That :) It's a puzzle challenge, so do the work to figure it out ;) MrTPenguin went through all the work as well when he made the map.
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Good thing a certain someone didn't spoil it live on air right before a certain event very recently. Cough. :D
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I don't know what you're talking about :-X
They'll still have to search through an 8 hour video to find it :P
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first try 22 minutes xD
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Oops sorry, I didn't realize that finishing below the word also counts, please delete my submission :)
Before I post it again, please clarify whether "total amount of time you spent playing" means the total round time, of just turn times summed up? And do we have to round the score down to full seconds?
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Total turn time + 3 seconds for every turn you use (to prevent people from using dragon ball and moving in retreat time only).
Basically, you need to get all your worms inside the part where "finish" is written. One of the worms is already on the finish before the second one steps on the finish, so the part where your run ends is when the second worm steps on the word finish.
If you walked on top of the start sign after the second worm finished, that won't cost you any time.
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Awesome challenge! Got it all figured out, but still 32 days left. So imma just lean back on my seat, enough of excitement for today :D
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170?? I would say about 200 is the best time possible, unless I'm missing something...
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It's just a wild guess right now, but I'd say it can be done around 150.
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Pretty wild guess I'd say. ;)
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aw.... I made an error in the calculation of time :(
DarkOne, please delete my replay
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I cant figure out how to start. Doc, am I stupid so much? ahah
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I cant figure out how to start. Doc, am I stupid so much? ahah
Teamwork is the key!
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Forgot to mention this, apparently, but no skip walking allowed in this challenge (or any other future similar or battlerace challenges)
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Skip walking, seriously?
It's just a wild guess right now, but I'd say it can be done around 150.
I hope your guess didn't include skip walking abonimation.
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Hah, apparently D1 and I have different interpretations of "whatever means necessary" :D but np, I was rather sure my replay would get delete because of skipwalking.
Should be okay now?
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Sorry, not sure, how to count the time right, fix please :D
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Sorry, not sure, how to count the time right, fix please :D
If you press alt+f4 right after the retreat time of your last turn ends, then this time in the game log counts as your finishing time:
Team time totals:
AW2 COs: Turn: 00:02:33.44, Retreat: 00:00:18.00, Total: 00:02:51.44
Just convert minutes to seconds before sumbitting. (1 minute is 60 seconds)
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Assuming there are no screwups that lead to lost turns ;)
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Oh, no skipwalking? Why? :)
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thx bar, but still it's tricky to count true time, e.g.:
Turn: 00:02:30.46, Retreat: 00:00:15.00, Total: 00:02:45.46
But after both worms touched finish, I didn't quit (damn xD). My last turn did end at [00:03:15.28] + 3 s retreat (dunno if it's should be counted, I didn't use it...), I quit the game at [00:03:21.50], so my real time is 00:02:45.46 - 00:00:3.22. I hope my calculations are correct %)
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It's just a wild guess right now, but I'd say it can be done around 150.
Done :D
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Whew, those were a lot of replays. Sick run you got there, Statik!
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DarkOne, Do you know what was the record in TCB?
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Unfortunately, I don't. There are still some archives up of TCB, but a lot of the challenge pages themselves are missing.
At any rate, I changed the rules a bit so people wouldn't use dragon/firepunch and move in retreat time all the time :) That was common practice back in the day, and it kind of made checking the replays more annoying.
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heh I was just wondering to compare records of the same challenge in two periods of time.
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oh, vgj Statik :-X
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thx, still there are 30 days to find a faster solution^^
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it is impossible to break this record, how the hell he did? lol
Very nice!
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DarkOne, why you take part in this challenge? You are the mod and you can see any repley and copy any good solution. It's bit unfair.
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I only used the solution I found myself. I can show you the replay where I figured it out, along with HHC if you don't trust my impartiality ;)
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I only used the solution I found myself. I can show you the replay where I figured it out, along with HHC if you don't trust my impartiality ;)
how dare you to leave out the important role genious peja played in this attempt?
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I thought it was well known that you are my sole inspiration for finding solutions to everything!
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I'm not sure if this is a legit solution at the end, is it, D1?
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It's not :) Nice lateral thinking, though ;)
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i'm drunk and my roomate is f@#!ing while i check this website and listen to eminem. I feel like a looser but when i know the look of the girl i"m fine !
Ayways thanks peja,d1,hhc you made me laugh. Tdc is really a familly thank you guys !
Was so hard to type this!
f@#! my roomate is slapping her so hard so fun !
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avirex is your roomate? t for the nice words fada xD
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avirex is your roomate? t for the nice words fada xD
Implying avirex is the only person who has sex? Lol Peja, you really have a thing for him!
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Prank I am in NY so it makes sense :)
I saw a video of her being f@#!ed man this girl is the slutest girl i've ever seen !
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At any rate, I changed the rules a bit so people wouldn't use dragon/firepunch and move in retreat time all the time :) That was common practice back in the day, and it kind of made checking the replays more annoying.
Please explain how this makes any sense at all... you seem to be already counting retreat time in the turn time total (though it'd really help if you made that completely unambiguous in the challenge's description; TCB was plagued with ambiguous descriptions in many of its challenges, and I would have hoped that would be a thing of the past). The retreat time is already 3 seconds in this challenge's scheme, so 3 seconds are already being added for every turn. As a result, there would be no advantage from doing all movement during retreat time. So why do you use this as your reason for adding an extra 3 second per turn penalty? And why don't you make it clear that this results in 6 seconds being added per turn (3 second retreat + 3 second penalty, except for turns in which you lost control during the retreat)? This is a recipe for misinterpretation.
Also... if "using dragon/firepunch and moving in retreat time all the time" was "a common practice back in the day", that would only have been because many people (including me) misinterpreted those TCB challenge descriptions. I used that technique on Challenge #50, another assault coarse by Mr T Penguin, and then was very upset to see that retreat time actually was counted towards the scoring of my submitted replay... I had wasted time doing a badly-scoring run because I thought, from reading the description, that retreat time didn't count. (The description only said "Less turn time used for challenge completion ranks higher." It seemed pretty clear to me that meant retreat time wasn't included, but then it did turn out to be included.)
Do the listed records (ranging from 132.18s to 473.54s) use the "turn time + retreat time + 3 sec per turn penalty" formula?
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i must agree with deadcode.
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In short, I count all the turn time used and add 3 seconds for each completed turn before the actual finish. 3 seconds because the retreat time is 3 seconds.
If someone loses control during his/her turn during the regular turn time, then the 3 seconds is a penalty. If someone messes up during retreat time, it means they get a smaller penalty (cause they used up some of those 3 seconds).
Sorry for the misunderstanding!
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In short, I count all the turn time used and add 3 seconds for each completed turn before the actual finish. 3 seconds because the retreat time is 3 seconds.
If someone loses control during his/her turn during the regular turn time, then the 3 seconds is a penalty. If someone messes up during retreat time, it means they get a smaller penalty (cause they used up some of those 3 seconds).
Sorry for the misunderstanding!
Arrrrgh. You still haven't cleared it up with 100% unambiguity. Since you used to use "turn time" on TCB to mean "turn time + retreat time", please just say it straight out:
Do you count turn time + retreat time + 3 sec penalty per turn (in which case the 3 sec would be added twice per turn in most cases),
Or, do you count turn time, not including retreat time, and then add the 3 sec penalty per turn? (I think it's this one, but I really wish you'd say so unambiguously.)
EDIT: It's very clear now that retreat time isn't counted, and the 3 second penalty per turn is added instead. But that's only because Statik posted an Export Log excerpt that agrees with his posted time, and his posted time is not shown as "Waiting to be approved".
The challenge description really needs to be edited to clear this up, so that other players won't need to use detective work to figure out your meaning. The description as it is right now is flat-out wrong.
I will count the amount of time you spent playing and I will add 3 seconds for every turn you used.
Retreat time is time spent playing. So this description makes it sound like the 3 seconds are added twice for each turn which had a complete retreat.
If someone loses control during his/her turn during the regular turn time, then the 3 seconds is a penalty.
But if I understand you correctly, then the 3 seconds would also be a penalty if they lose control during a retreat.
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After the barman's example with game log everything is clear: Turn: 00:01:57.18, Retreat: 00:00:15.00, Total: 00:02:12.18
So DarkOne doesn't add additional 3xTurns seconds to a total time. But I wonder why he didn't just set retreat to 0 :D
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After the barman's example with game log everything is clear: Turn: 00:01:57.18, Retreat: 00:00:15.00, Total: 00:02:12.18
But that's incorrect. Sure, it so happens that in barman's example, every turn had a full retreat, but if that hadn't been the case, then this would give the wrong answer. Therefore it's pretty misleading. (Never mind that in all the best runs, as far as we know, retreat time will be fully used, rendering this distinction moot...)
BTW, amazing run time, Statik. I still don't know how you did it... I just got 131.66 seconds tool-assisted. You must be using a much quicker strategy than what I've arrived at, because it'd be impossible to get that close to a TA run in this kind of challenge using the same strategy...
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Thanks, maybe DarkOne will open replays sooner, because the recent activity there is very low :<
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I wanna do another run if I get time! I discovered a little bit faster way. :)
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Arrrrgh. You still haven't cleared it up with 100% unambiguity. Since you used to use "turn time" on TCB to mean "turn time + retreat time", please just say it straight.
I thought my description was quite unambiguous in my post, since turn time is used the same way everywhere. After all, when I ask you to describe for example hysteria, don't you say you get 1 second turn time and 5 seconds retreat time? It's also the term used in logs, so I figured you'd appreciate it if I used that terminology ;) I'll change the challenge description to match my post.
What makes you think I remember the exact wording on TCB when I don't even remember the rules for a lot of challenges? :)
I don't like having to explain every minute detail about a challenge because there will always be something left to comment on and it would require an extraordinary amount of text to een attemp to remove all doubt - which leads to people not reading the wall of text.
Prank, you've still got time :)
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I thought my description was quite unambiguous in my post, since turn time is used the same way everywhere.
Well, problem is, you said "amount of time you spent playing", not turn time. But you've edited it now, thank you!
Also I see something in that scoring method I wouldn't have known otherwise, until you edited it just now: That you don't add a 3 second penalty for the last turn if the retreat was not used. That means some of my submitted runs will score better than I thought. Corrections:
My 177.22s run is actually 174.22s
My 182.96s run is actually 179.96s
After all, when I ask you to describe for example hysteria, don't you say you get 1 second turn time and 5 seconds retreat time? It's also the term used in logs, so I figured you'd appreciate it if I used that terminology ;)
Perfect, thank you. As long as I know that you're using "turn time" in that sense, I'm fine with it :) The reason I wasn't sure is that in TCB you used to use the term differently. Now we can finally put that behind us.
What makes you think I remember the exact wording on TCB when I don't even remember the rules for a lot of challenges?
I didn't know you didn't still have the archive of TCB descriptions, maps, and schemes. I assumed you had it, because where else would you be getting the maps? And you got the scoring method for TCB challenge #22 exactly how it was on TCB, so naturally I just assumed you had all the old descriptions. If you didn't... well, great memory! :)
I don't like having to explain every minute detail about a challenge because there will always be something left to comment on and it would require an extraordinary amount of text to een attemp to remove all doubt - which leads to people not reading the wall of text.
Being precise doesn't necessarily mean being very wordy!
I volunteer to be a challenge description editor. The way I envision it is this: MonkeyIsland sets up something where I get auto-emailed whenever a new challenge is posted. If I see ambiguity in the wording, I ask the author to clear it up, then I edit the description, keeping it concise and as brief as possible while eliminating the ambiguity.
Having linkified text would help a lot. A term that might potentially be seen as ambiguous could be underlined, and clicking it would bring up a little text box clarifying it. For example: "No skipwalking allowed." Clicking it would bring up a definition, which includes both skipwalking and flipwalking (in case somebody thinks they skirt around this rule by doing flipwalking instead of skipwalking).
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I agree that i'd love to see statik replay ! such great challenges !
btw DC it is not said in the rule but no Tool Assist attempt, so remove your 157.9s. I don't believe you did it without a bit of cheating. Afterall, you're known to be the biggest cheater worms ever had ! ;)
Joking man, nice to see you doing some tus :)
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I agree that i'd love to see statik replay ! such great challenges !
btw DC it is not said in the rule but no Tool Assist attempt, so remove your 157.9s. I don't believe you did it without a bit of cheating. Afterall, you're known to be the biggest cheater worms ever had ! ;)
Hahaha. You almost had me there... I was about to reply "No! That's an unaided attempt, not tool-assisted at all."
Joking man, nice to see you doing some tus :)
Thanks zippeurfou :)
My best tool-assisted attempt is 121.06 s now, BTW. I still think Statik and _ssm_ must've found a better shortcut than what I'm aware of so far. My 153.00 s attempt uses the same basic strategy as the TA reply but without the fancier jumps that are hard to do quickly... I made no mistakes in that run... can't imagine that it could be trimmed down much further without changing the path taken. Or doing many hundreds of attempts while taking greater risks.
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Deadcode, i already done ~700 attempts :D
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aw you are close, I have to improve now :<
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at last I did it without mistakes :D
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at last I did it without mistakes :D
QQ
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I'm not at home right now, so I'll have to check the new submissions when I get home tomorrow.
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The run I just got was a result of me and Deadcode bouncing ideas off each other, was kind of hard to avoid collaborating when we were both talking about the challenge on mIRC ;O. But yeah he's been working on a TA run, so I got some ideas from that, as well as put some in. He's trying to make that run fairly perfect, it's definitely gonna surprise people :0.
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That's kinda against the rules lol, I can collaborate with ssm/van and we'll do 100 haha...
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I can see where Statik's coming from, what's the point in making the replays unavailable in the first place? :P
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I got the better part of the deal, in this collaboration (my 153 second non-TA run was from before, when I was still ignorant!) but it's gone both ways. So I wanted to be open about it.
Of course D1 or MI should step in if I'm wrong about this, but, Statik and ssm, if you want to team up, then why not? But if you do (or have already), it would be nice if you let us know here on this thread. (van has already retired from the challenge, so you can't team up with him.)
As for the point in making the replays unavailable... well, for one thing, it forces you to figure out how to solve the challenge to completion yourself, even if the way you find isn't the fastest. In TCB it worked differently; once you got your replay for a particular challenge accepted, you could download all the others for that challenge. But this TUS way does have its own merits; it puts the focus on a small number of challenges at any given time, which can make each one more exciting.
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Statik is too proud for that and I bet ya he'll come with even a better time :)
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Of course D1 or MI should step in if I'm wrong about this, but, Statik and ssm, if you want to team up, then why not? But if you do (or have already), it would be nice if you let us know here on this thread. (van has already retired from the challenge, so you can't team up with him.)
I personally have no problem with that, because when you collab, at least you're still working to find the best sollution. In addition to that, how can I stop people from secretly doing it? _ssm_ and statik have very similar replays, so I can't tell if they have worked together either, only they know :)
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This challenge was interesting while people tried to find different solutions by themselves. Now if all will collaborate and exchange replays, all runs will be similar and only the best performance wins, that's dumb. Enjoy:
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We not working together and i can't pass this map faster.
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My opinion is just the same as DarkOne's.
Statik if you think it is dumb, then why you share your attempt?
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Perhaps 30 days is a bit too long? I'd go for 2 weeks tops, maybe even less, to keep things entertaining.
Kinda sad to see statik quit, was a nice run, man. I actually like the idea of best performance being done, but you're right, it should be done after the challenge's expire date, thus the shorter time frame for it.
edit: attached the rep of my final run cus love worms drama (now that's it's too late and it doesn't matter anyway)
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Statik if you think it is dumb, then why you share your attempt?
Because it's fair to other people.
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Did I miss something? Somebody shared his replay sooner? Where's the fair part?
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Statik if you think it is dumb, then why you share your attempt?
Because it's fair to other people.
It's actually unfair: Dc and Mablak may have been working, but they both worked on finding a solution and they did not get any help from someone else.
Now anyone can download the replay and know the solution without doing any work. Unfair to the people who put effort into their solutions.
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:) ;) :D ;D >:( :( :o 8) ??? ::) :P :-[ :-X :-\ :-* :'(
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Statik if you think it is dumb, then why you share your attempt?
Because it's fair to other people.
It's actually unfair: Dc and Mablak may have been working, but they both worked on finding a solution and they did not get any help from someone else.
Now anyone can download the replay and know the solution without doing any work. Unfair to the people who put effort into their solutions.
I lost hours to find this solution 2 days ago and now I see that Statik shared it :'(
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Wow, Mablak, you beast! Tore another challenge to shreds :D
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WoW, VN run DC ! I'm curious to know how the hell u did.
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WoW, VN run DC ! I'm curious to know how the hell u did.
Thanks Casso! I will say that I managed to make no mistakes at all in that 120.42s run (except one tiny, tiny one), and it was my overall attempt #578 (although in the first 135 attempts I didn't know about that big shortcut at the end, which I then learned from Mablak; also I didn't know it was allowed to start one worm on top of the other, and played it safe by not doing that).
P.S. I'm amazed that so many of you (Statik, ssm, van, and Mablak) all independently discovered that big shortcut at the end. I racked my brain for 2 days and couldn't figure out what the major shortcut was.
(using black text as a spoiler-tag substitute, for people who want to figure out how to beat the map through their own ingenuity, without watching Statik's and van's replays first)
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I'm waiting when replays will be free to watch xD
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I think Mablak would still be able to defeat that time, DC :) But he would have to be incredibly precise!
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Forget about Mablak, all of you, we have new challenges champion. Dario, Deadcode and Komo. Mablak is tier 2 now.
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Oh dear, look what you've gone and done, coste. Now I'm going to have to completely re-choreograph my run so I can beat Mablak's new record! This is not going to be pretty.
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Why me coste? I'm clueless...
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Hahah.
@Komo: naaa, i mean you are allways mentioned in the fantastic four like Dario, Mablak, Random and you.
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I'm away for a couple of days, but I'll check all replays once I get back :)
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Congratulations, Deadcode! :)
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Good job DC :)
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Ok, whats the "cool" in just firepunching and using the retreat time to move? DC could do that even faster if he used more fp's.
I mean is the retreat time counted? I suppose not.
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Ok, whats the "cool" in just firepunching and using the retreat time to move? DC could do that even faster if he used more fp's.
I mean is the retreat time counted? I suppose not.
Yes it is, written in the description.
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if u wanna watch a smooth run, dl my replay, first two just hax :P
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The TA record is actually at 82.90 seconds :P
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Congratulations, Deadcode! :)
Good job DC :)
Thanks! :D It was really hard to beat Mablak's time. Took me 413 attempts. Since I began attempting TCB33 (including the times at first when I used a much less efficient method), it's my 1662th attempt.
Here is my 80.70 second tool-assisted replay (http://kingbird.myphotos.cc/2013-02-24%2006.42.11%20%7BTA%7D%20%5BTCB%20Challenge%2033%20-%2080.70%20sec%20-%20annotated%5D%200xDEADC0DE.WAgame) of this challenge. It's annotated; you can pull down the chat to read the annotations.
Ok, whats the "cool" in just firepunching and using the retreat time to move? DC could do that even faster if he used more fp's.
I mean is the retreat time counted? I suppose not.
The thing is, retreat time is counted! There is a 3 second penalty for every turn taken, and the retreat in this scheme is 3 seconds. The trick, and the reason the firepunches help, is that I use the time after the retreat is done to do jumps and fall off cliffs! This is most efficient when the jump / walk-off-cliff is done at the very last frame of the retreat, and planned it so as to try to get as close to that as I could, and make the jump go far, when possible.
It was Mablak's idea to jump at the end of every retreat, and I took that idea and developed it, planning out when and where to end each retreat.
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Crazy great replay :o
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Congrats to Deadcode, the battle rages on though. Under 100 shall be done!
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mablak stop playing this, how dare your time got beaten https://www.tus-wa.com/maps/map-301/
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ye + good warm before PO xD