Was having a discussion with Anubis on steam.
My point of view: there is little innovation in games atm, 99% of games are just clones of other games that do not offer anything new. Only once in a while a genuinely new idea is introduced and companies jump on the bandwagon to copy that idea (GTA, sandbox games, RocketLeague, etc.), without really adding new elements to it.
So yeh, I wanna know how you people feel about it.
Are you satisfied with what the gaming industry publishes or is it mostly 'meh' to you?
Where is room for improvement?
Can you think of a cool innovation that would be the next big thing in gaming?
What kind of game is missing.. what would you like to play that isn't available on the market?
And on a sidenote, how would you revolutionize Worms? Or are you just looking for the perfection of the existing set-up (WA 4.0)?
I hate 95% of new games and Worms after second generation
The Global Scale likes repetitive, that's all
it's the same thing with music, people just listen to pop music and not the innovative stuff
worms will definitely be revolutionized with our PoC schemes
Quote from: HHC on July 27, 2017, 12:44 AM
how would you revolutionize Worms?
Worms need
VoIP!
Everyone wanna listen Godmax raging after some Aerial raping.
Quote from: STRGRN on July 27, 2017, 08:38 AM
worms will definitely be revolutionized with our PoC schemes
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/xT0Gqr2V8DpUGdKgcU/giphy.gif)
Easy on the sugar, strgr...
play rock it leahue?
Perhaps the issue here is that the older one gets, the harder it is to find a suitable game to one's taste. Nostalgia bias can be strong element within particular group that is less willing to try what is new. Understandingly so, because the new generation may prefer and even believe what is present today to be innovative. Although without some form of knowledge of the past, it is likely the today society is as content as we were back in the days.
From my perspective there aren't a lot of games in this day and age that appeals to me. Because what was and still is in my possession is what I am quite content with. Does this make me not willing to try anything new? Well both yes and no. A game called Sonic Mania is to be released soon, and this game is to borrow everything what made the more successful Sonic great, great again. Will this offer anything new? Probably not. There's likely the same elements and expectations we are used to.
Then we have Super Mario Odyssey, it looks quite fun and very classy. But are there anything new in this game? Somewhat, there's still this basic platforming and exploring. But what makes this game interesting is how Mario can control the cap for various things in order to progress, and merge himself into a wall and go play as 2D Mario.
Of course you may not even care for Sonic nor Mario. But those are 2 examples. The rest of the games I can think of are just the same e.g Call of Duty, Battlefield, Counter Strike, Rainbow Six Siege and Insurgency.
See how I only mentioned shooters? There's nothing special about these shooters, only that they appeal to a difference broad of audience and there's nothing wrong in that. The point is, for each installment there's little to no significant updates that are made, except for maybe story and more microtransactions.
The business model is pretty old fashioned, just look at how Android OS. It has incremental updates, it updates over time without you having to buy the entire OS over again at a later stage. Apple introduced this with their OS, and I believe Microsoft is already following this business model with incremental updates.
Buying a new game for blood price + microtransaction seems to kill it for me personally. Some of these games aren't even half finished.
In the end, we are all different and have our own particular taste, best to accept this.
I was thinking about making a new scheme: worm's archery,but I don't have computer skills. It would be great to be able to use those training targets to apply them in the real game. Yes ideas,absolutely not concreteness
.
Quote from: Kradie on July 31, 2017, 12:59 PM
Perhaps the issue here is that the older one gets, the harder it is to find a suitable game to one's taste. Nostalgia bias can be strong element within particular group that is less willing to try what is new. Understandingly so, because the new generation may prefer and even believe what is present today to be innovative. Although without some form of knowledge of the past, it is likely the today society is as content as we were back in the days.
From my perspective there aren't a lot of games in this day and age that appeals to me. Because what was and still is in my possession is what I am quite content with. Does this make me not willing to try anything new? Well both yes and no. A game called Sonic Mania is to be released soon, and this game is to borrow everything what made the more successful Sonic great, great again. Will this offer anything new? Probably not. There's likely the same elements and expectations we are used to.
Then we have Super Mario Odyssey, it looks quite fun and very classy. But are there anything new in this game? Somewhat, there's still this basic platforming and exploring. But what makes this game interesting is how Mario can control the cap for various things in order to progress, and merge himself into a wall and go play as 2D Mario.
Of course you may not even care for Sonic nor Mario. But those are 2 examples. The rest of the games I can think of are just the same e.g Call of Duty, Battlefield, Counter Strike, Rainbow Six Siege and Insurgency.
See how I only mentioned shooters? There's nothing special about these shooters, only that they appeal to a difference broad of audience and there's nothing wrong in that. The point is, for each installment there's little to no significant updates that are made, except for maybe story and more microtransactions.
The business model is pretty old fashioned, just look at how Android OS. It has incremental updates, it updates over time without you having to buy the entire OS over again at a later stage. Apple introduced this with their OS, and I believe Microsoft is already following this business model with incremental updates.
Buying a new game for blood price + microtransaction seems to kill it for me personally. Some of these games aren't even half finished.
In the end, we are all different and have our own particular taste, best to accept this.
welcome back kradie
Quote from: Kradie on July 31, 2017, 12:59 PM
Perhaps the issue here is that the older one gets, the harder it is to find a suitable game to one's taste.
This is very true. The more games you try the more you're looking out for that special game that has elements of old games you like + the additions you've always wanted to see implemented in it.
Lately I've been looking for a game where you can play a little less active role as a player.. where you just sit and watch the CPU do stuff.
The most interesting thing I found was saltybet, a site where you watch hundreds of characters face each other in street fighter-like battles on random maps borrowed from all popular fighting games. Every new round you place a bet (with fake cash) for which character you think will win and then you just sit and watch the CPU AI operate both characters. It's quite funny and relaxed, but I guess it too gets old after a bit.
Here's the link: http://www.saltybet.com/
I think there's a market for these kind of games.. now with the current trend to watch ppl play games on YouTube instead of playing them yourself.
Maybe I'm a little overplayed ;D
But yeh, it's concepts like these that I'm talking about. I wish companies had the ingenuity to take games further than just being 'games'. If you see games as interactive media... there's a lot more possibilities that go beyond the traditional singleplayer or multiplayer setup of 'press A to achieve mission Z'.
Sandbox games & open world games were a true revolution, but IMO they haven't quite reached their potential yet. They have never really gone further than GTA or minecraft.
Quote from: HHC on July 31, 2017, 07:44 PM
Lately I've been looking for a game where you can play a little less active role as a player.. where you just sit and watch the CPU do stuff.
Cookie Clicker ;D
It's like emotions, if you never feel sad before you can never know what happy is like
So yea, I'm okay with shitty game being made
Quote from: HHC on July 31, 2017, 07:44 PM
Quote from: Kradie on July 31, 2017, 12:59 PM
Perhaps the issue here is that the older one gets, the harder it is to find a suitable game to one's taste.
This is very true. The more games you try the more you're looking out for that special game that has elements of old games you like + the additions you've always wanted to see implemented in it.
Lately I've been looking for a game where you can play a little less active role as a player.. where you just sit and watch the CPU do stuff.
The most interesting thing I found was saltybet, a site where you watch hundreds of characters face each other in street fighter-like battles on random maps borrowed from all popular fighting games. Every new round you place a bet (with fake cash) for which character you think will win and then you just sit and watch the CPU AI operate both characters. It's quite funny and relaxed, but I guess it too gets old after a bit.
Here's the link: http://www.saltybet.com/
I think there's a market for these kind of games.. now with the current trend to watch ppl play games on YouTube instead of playing them yourself.
Maybe I'm a little overplayed ;D
But yeh, it's concepts like these that I'm talking about. I wish companies had the ingenuity to take games further than just being 'games'. If you see games as interactive media... there's a lot more possibilities that go beyond the traditional singleplayer or multiplayer setup of 'press A to achieve mission Z'.
Sandbox games & open world games were a true revolution, but IMO they haven't quite reached their potential yet. They have never really gone further than GTA or minecraft.
While this idea sounds innocent in practice, it will eventually lead to a gambling problem. and I think we have enough of that going on already. Eventually these companies will want to give players a choice whether to use fake or real money to further their progression. It could be that fake money would limit their interaction with the game, meaning that real money would be a clear winner if you want to gain something significant in return.
Everything gambling related is designed to keep you from leaving, these types of shenanigans are already in casinos and gambling websites. So Imagine a game where you are playing, the game will give you the illusion of reward but in reality the company behind the game(s) are the ones that makes a profit.
E.g As soonest you give off the command to your bet(AI) fighter/racer or slot machine, the game is already determined the victor and loser, and you will have to wait until it is played out.
In the end I think it is a bad idea and a shady practice that wouldn't benefit the consumers.
I'm not advocating betting, but it does take the game further than merely 'spectating'. AFAIK the site has no intention to work with real money, so I'm cool with that. It's a means of getting involved in a game without actually taking the controls. I can't think of many alternatives to that other than chatting/stats tracking or some kind of god powers.
Bart I've been on saltybet since 2012
gambling is excellent
Quote from: HHC on August 01, 2017, 10:32 AM
I'm not advocating betting, but it does take the game further than merely 'spectating'. AFAIK the site has no intention to work with real money, so I'm cool with that. It's a means of getting involved in a game without actually taking the controls. I can't think of many alternatives to that other than chatting/stats tracking or some kind of god powers.
Well, I'm not convinced of your idea. This type of concept isn't exactly revolutionary. People already place wagers in all types of tournaments, private, unofficial or not. Taking this concept into video game won't stop the need to place wagers, it would only escalate to real money.
You can already see it happening on TuS. Some people may only partake in tournaments and cups if money is involved. Worms Armageddon wasn't about money gamlbing. Obviously it has come to this as people have grown up, and wants a reason to play. There's no shame in that.
Let me rephrase.. I don't give a shit about betting. ???
For me the issue is, is it possible to make a game attractive without a human player?
If you want to go beyond simple spectating you need to introduce other ways in which the person behind the screen can interact with the game.
Betting is a way of doing just that, but in no way the only means-to-an-end.
Please don't turn this thread into a discussion on the merits of gambling :(
Modern gaming kinda sucks IMO. I can't remember the last time that I found a game that has 'hooked' me.
For me, gaming started to take a turn right around the time the XBox 360 came out... and the problem is online gaming. Sure, there was online stuff on the PS2 and the original XBox, but not much in comparison. The focus then was making excellent games that do not require any online multiplayer features. Once everything became all about the online multiplayer, gaming got kinda boring for me. (Even though I was playing online multiplayer stuff on PC.)
I don't know if it's because I am getting older and more jaded, but I don't get the same satisfaction from gaming as I used to. I miss the days of local multiplayer... sitting around on the couch with some friends and taking turns, or playing stuff split screen. It's so much more fun to hang out in person and game than it is to sit by yourself on a computer or a console and voice chat.
I'm also not a fan of the most popular genres these days... MOBA is boring as f@#! and not even remotely interesting, FPS is only fun when it isn't broken and preferably it's co-op rather than pure pvp. MMOs seem like fun in theory but in reality all it is just endless, boring grinding.
I am looking forward to playing Destiny 2 when it comes out for PC later this month only because of the co-op. The original Destiny was fun for a while but also pretty disappointing in many ways. Hopefully I don't get bamboozled again and actually enjoy the game.
I am hooked on Total War: Warhammer 2 atm. Always loved the Warhammer franchise but didn't have a friend that liked it as well to dive into it. Now I do and it's a blast. Being addicted to it since it released, though if you get it make sure to put it on a SSD because the load times are atrocious on a normal HDD. :-\
I also have Destiny 2 already pre-ordered (through WoW Gold :D ) but don't plan on playing on release because Warhammer.
Quote from: skunk3 on October 03, 2017, 06:49 AM
I'm also not a fan of the most popular genres these days... MOBA is boring as f@#! and not even remotely interesting, FPS is only fun when it isn't broken and preferably it's co-op rather than pure pvp. MMOs seem like fun in theory but in reality all it is just endless, boring grinding.
Hit the nail on the head there.
While I played WoW intensively for about 5 years, and at the time it generally felt awesome, so many times i'd sit there waiting on stuff, and during those waiting periods i'm telling myself, "what the f**k are you doing with your time", but it was literally more addictive than cigarettes for me.
Now I feel like I wasted a huge part of my life after reading this, i've never played WoW again, and never will:
http://www.mostdangerousgamedesign.com/2013/08/the-psychology-of-rewards-in-games.html
It even made me stop playing WA so much... I feel bad for anyone addicted to DOTA/LoL/Warhammer/WoW etc. I can't lie and say I didn't enjoy some of the storyline though in WoW, but the same thing that is ruining gaming is the same thing ruining the entire world, money and greed, if people weren't so desperate for money, they wouldn't have to make stupid DLC and worry about keeping players hooked for as long as possible, they could just make shorter, more interesting games, and not have to worry about a player abandoning it once completed.
The fact you have to grind in games, is insulting, but of course without it, the companies would make like 50-70% less money off their dumbass consumers.
Some people say "But it helps teach people about hard work paying off" - Umm, SHUT THE F**K UP, no it isn't, it's so they can milk people for as much money as possible.
You should not try to feel bad for what other people choose to do with their lives. Of course, one could feel bad for you too, for having pity on other's decisions. It is in my opinion a little condescending view, to look down. Instead it is better to accept and perhaps cherish the choices that people make in their lives. As longest these choices makes people happy, and it doesn't hurt anyone else, why would it be anyone's issue?
It is what Gandalf said "All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
It is kind of society's fault for lot of us to think this way. People have expectations, if it isn't met, it is disregarded and frowned upon. It is a tabu to be indifferent,. It shouldn't be like this, no one has the right to tell you what you should do and how to live your life. But it is obvious if you're living an unhealthy lifestyle or a life of crime, then that's where someone should reach in.
I don't feel bad for what other people choose to do with their lives, I said I feel bad for anyone addicted to those games.
It's ok to enjoy something, but when you become addicted you lose control, other things in your life become less of a priority, you begin ignoring other things that used to be important to get your fix, and in extreme cases, much worse could happen... That's why I feel bad for them.
Kradie, after our conversation the other day i'm a little disappointed you jumped the gun here lol, but it's ok because your heart is in the right place :)
Quote from: TheKomodo on October 05, 2017, 12:22 PM
I don't feel bad for what other people choose to do with their lives, I said I feel bad for anyone addicted to those games.
It's ok to enjoy something, but when you become addicted you lose control, other things in your life become less of a priority, you begin ignoring other things that used to be important to get your fix, and in extreme cases, much worse could happen... That's why I feel bad for them.
Kradie, after our conversation the other day i'm a little disappointed you jumped the gun here lol, but it's ok because your heart is in the right place :)
What if they aren't addicted? Maybe there are actual people that do enjoy Worms, Counter Strike, Dota, and so on. Gaming isn't what it used to be, it is more widely accepted, and even considered as a real sport.
So if you see some people gaming intensely inside, it can be the same as some dudes playing football outside (NOT AMERICAN FOOTBALL).
No need to be disappointed lad, I have no ill intent here, just trying to have a civil debate ;)
Quote from: Kradie on October 05, 2017, 12:29 PM
What if they aren't addicted?
Then they aren't addicted...?
Quote from: TheKomodo on October 05, 2017, 01:00 PM
Quote from: Kradie on October 05, 2017, 12:29 PM
What if they aren't addicted?
Then they aren't addicted...?
My point was that, if someone is committed to something, it doesn't necessarily make them addicted.
Then what's your point lol, obviously I realize this...
Quote from: TheKomodo on October 05, 2017, 01:13 PM
Then what's your point lol, obviously I realize this...
I obviously thought you didn't. So I apologize about that.
Quote from: Kradie on October 05, 2017, 01:10 PM
My point was that, if someone is committed to something, it doesn't necessarily make them addicted.
Don't try to cover up the truth.
Not 1% of Dota, LoL, WoW, CS... players won't make it to the big league.
Those ppl are addicts and if you see one - try to help.
If you only prioritize gaming/passion and disregard everything else such as work, bills, food, and day rhythm, then yes that's a serious problem. But if you can moderate it and not let it interfere with your prioritize, then there's nothing wrong with it.
Games isn't a disease, but society, people can be toxic without knowing it. Your motives, action and behavior can affect other people in an unfavorable way, even if it is intent or not. This can lead to unpleasant outcome, such as a divided community.
I know or have known people who I would classify as addicts. They would go to work and pay their bills and stuff, but aside from that they spent almost every waking moment playing various games, for YEARS. I was certainly like that at one point when it comes to Worms, but as I've gotten older I have more fully realized how precious time is, not to mention the fact that I have worked through some emotional issues that led me to closing myself off to the world.
I've read the link that Komo posted before and I think it is absolutely correct. The best analogy I can think of for MMO games is a 'hamster wheel for the human mind.' You work and work and work hoping for some kind of a reward or pleasure, but it is always kept out of reach. The amount of grinding required in these games to be on top / competitive is insane since the games themselves don't really require any skill. All that matters is the gear you have, and also some knowledge of various meta aspects of the game (knowing what is under or overpowered, history of buffs and nerfs, etc). I've played various MMO games over the years and I always get bored eventually because at a certain point there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind and HOPE to get some item that can make your stats *slightly* better. It is a hamster wheel.
One of the reasons why W:A can keep my attention after so long is because there's no grind involved, per se.
I don't get the obsession with MOBA games. I've tried a few and it can be fun to play for maybe a couple of days but in the end it feels extremely repetitive and boring.
FPS games annoy the shit out of me because people know every little exploit, every nook and cranny of maps, and it seems like everyone but me has the magical ability to dial in a headshot within milliseconds. Whenever I come across someone in FPS, I can unload on them and hit them with several shots and then they just turn around and one-shot me. EVERY TIME. I don't know what the deal is. I've always kinda sucked at FPS because of this reason. I have decent reflexes (I used to play in IRL fighting game tournaments) but I guess it's the 3D nature of FPS that gets me so screwed up. I often find myself raging because I'll get killed by some f@#!er 2 miles away with a pistol, in a f@#!ed up hiding spot that I'd probably never notice.
Destiny is the only FPS that's managed to hold my attention for a while because I like all of the co-op aspects to it. I also like how it's kinda RPG-like in many ways. I'll be playing Destiny 2 a lot once it drops for PC later this month.
Quote from: skunk3 on October 08, 2017, 03:36 PMThe amount of grinding required in these games to be on top / competitive is insane since the games themselves don't really require any skill. All that matters is the gear you have, and also some knowledge of various meta aspects of the game (knowing what is under or overpowered, history of buffs and nerfs, etc). I've played various MMO games over the years and I always get bored eventually because at a certain point there's nothing to do but grind, grind, grind and HOPE to get some item that can make your stats *slightly* better. It is a hamster wheel.
Finally someone f**king gets it...
When I play these games I feel insulted at how easy they are, and how restricted they are, you are basically a horse chasing a carrot on a stick...
These games require next to zero creativity, they are not mentally challenging in the slightest, they are fun though, for a while, as I said the story is pretty cool in WoW, but the actual gameplay, I actually felt like my intelligence was decreasing while playing...
And as you said you grind grind grind and f**king grind for a TINY TINY TINY TINY chance of getting something, it's the opposite of real life, if you put in THAT amount of effort you WILL get results accordingly, you don't in games.
Since to me, music is one of the greatest signs of intelligence and creativity, it's had a bigger influence on life on this planet than most things, I can play any sh*t game as long as the musics good, that's why I got into WoW in the 1st place, the music and audio is truly epic and beautiful, as most fantasy games, best thing about them :)
I feel like there's lots of games in which if you put in enough effort, you get results. W:A is a perfect example of that. Nobody is a Worms prodigy.
Personally, what I am really hoping for one of these days is a co-op Elder Scrolls game. Maybe 4 players max.