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Multiplayer RPG games (not MMO), also Monster Hunter World
skunk3:
You seem to keep comparing real life to a video game for some inexplicable reason.
I'll go through some of the things you've said and respond:
1. If people don't like attacking huge monsters and think it is "gay as f@#!" then why even bother wasting their time with such a title, newcomer to the series (like me) or not?
2. About optimization. The UI is crap in various ways (play it for yourself), lots of graphical settings are not available, including bloom, DoF, advanced res options, motion blur, etc.
I haven't played any console versions nor do I even own any consoles anymore because, well, PC master race.
3. By limited depth I mean that the game itself is shallow on all fronts. The story is limited. The gameplay is limited. The amount of unique monsters you fight is limited. The level of uniqueness for each monster is limited. The gameplay literally doesn't change from the start aside from having access to a couple of extra buffs along the way, and slightly better gear, which really doesn't matter because unless you go back to low rank areas you never feel that increase in power at all... if anything you constantly feel more and more behind in power as the game progresses unless you intentionally don't progress through the story mode and instead grind out the same quests/investigations/events over and over and over again, but even then it barely helps. The game is eye candy really and has nothing to offer aside from that. Younger gamers probably love it but I of course am from the generation by which a game had to have some substance. It is very similar to a MMO, and I f@#!ing hate MMOs. Grinding is NOT my thing.
4. The fact that out of the 14 weapons available in the game, you typically see half or less of them actually used by people goes to show you that the balance is all wrong. Where is the incentive to practice with a weapon that is slow and clumsy to use when you can be just as effective with another weapon that is far more efficient? Also, not only are these heavy weapons slow to use, if you do whiff an attack (which happens often regardless of skill level) then the weapon gets stuck in the ground, which costs precious seconds, or there must be a slow animation in which the character has to hoist it back up into the air. You can get away with using some of these shittier weapons against certain monsters but against other monsters you might as well not even waste your time because they will be well out of harm's way by the time you can hit them. For me, slightly lower base damage and far more attacks actually landing and doing damage is better than a weapon with high base damage, but is slow and rarely connects, and this isn't because I'm some incompetent scrub who can't play video games... it's a simple observation of efficiency.
5. Many gameplay elements in MHW are needlessly punitive and make it far less fun. At best these punitive elements add more stress and drama to the situation but at worst they are a kick to the balls straight from the game devs and serve no purpose whatsoever aside from artificially inflating the difficulty of the game. For example, in one area there is a monster called Odogaron that spawns in certain spots and the monster itself is tough enough, but on top of that there's this toxic gas in the area that is constantly doing damage over time, and on top of that the monster inflict bleeding damage which is more damage over time. The way to stop bleeding? Crouch for like 3 seconds or use a certain item. Either way you basically have to stand still for a few seconds mid-fight, and if anything even barely touches you, that process is canceled and you have to do it again. On top of that, there are often other smaller monsters that swarm you while fighting the Odogaron (that can also inflict paralysis), so it basically is just layer upon layer of cheapness that you have to deal with while playing a game with shallow, boring combat. No thanks.
6. I don't know anything about any other MH game but in MHW you're always broke or next to broke unless you never forge or upgrade gear. The only way to not be broke is to grind and kill the same monsters you've already killed a hundred times just to get enough money to become slightly more powerful/resilient... and as I said before, I hate games that rely on grinding like that. There's no fun in it and it's just a time sink of you doing the same things over and over again. For many that's probably not an issue but for me I have better things to do with my life.
7. Until you hit end game grind-time you always feel horribly undergeared for whatever challenge you are presented with. Obviously the monsters in a game such as this are supposed to invoke a sense of power and ferocity, but once again, comparing this to real life is about as pointless as comparing anime to real life. Now that I have beaten the game I feel basically no incentive to keep grinding at all any my interest in the game has sharply declined.
8. The combat is extremely boring, and I don't care how popular the game is. You basically have two attacks and sometimes a special attack. You just spam the same thing over and over again while dodging out of the way until the monster is dead. There's no creativity involved at all. There's no real skill involved IMO either. You just wait for the monster to telegraph their move and get out of harm's way... then go back in and continue hacking. You just continue this cycle over and over until you win. It's boring, brute force, repetitive gameplay with no subtlety and very little individuality. There's lots of games with far less repetitive gameplay out there, or at the very least that version of repetitive gameplay is more cerebral.
9. The storyline of MHW could take up maybe 2 printed pages of text at the very most. It might as well be non-existent.
10. If you are playing a quest that you haven't done yet, you can't even join someone else or have someone join you until you go through the cutscene... so if you and a friend are playing through the game together, there are tons of times in which you guys will have to separately start quests on your own until you trigger the cutscene, watch it through, then cancel the quest and restart it so you can both attempt it together. It's idiotic and not like, say, Borderlands at all. I don't mind unskippable cutscenes THE FIRST TIME. However, after I've seen it once I want the option of skipping. I hate being forced to watch something I've already seen several times. (This is why I love how one of the W:A patches let us boot straight to the main screen so we didn't have to skip through shit to go online.)
11. Life is a grind in certain ways I suppose but once again, not relevant to this game. The older I get the more I value my free time. When I play a game I don't want to feel like I'm wasting time. I never feel as though Worms is wasted time. Games like MHW on the other hand = lots of wasted time. Games that involve a high degree of grinding simply just aren't good games, and I say this as a RPG nerd.
12. I haven't touched the game since beating the main storyline and seeing what the game has to offer. It seems to me that you're actually more upset about all of this than I am. I am just here sharing my opinions about a recent, high-profile game in an appropriate sub-forum and you're challenging me at every turn as though hearing the opinions of another is so abrasive to you that you feel compelled to defend it and insult me in the process, which is precisely what you're doing.
13. Basic game elements/mechanics shouldn't be kept a mystery from players. That is stupid. Of course there are aspects of games that could be discovered as you play through it, but to simply just not explain how something works intentionally or due to oversight? Come on man. Supporting that kinda dumb shit makes no sense. MHW is a game that REQUIRES players to look up things on the internet all of the time because you simply don't get the info you need in game. That's just bad design.
14. You CAN 'specialize' to a degree in the game but your options are seriously limited and to be actually effective and well suited for that role you want to play, it's not something you can really attempt to do until you are well into that end game grind phase... and by that point it's like why even bother? You've done everything you can do in the game. Everyone has their own tastes but I can't justify grinding unless there's a substantial and clear reward for doing so and my time is worth more than that.
15. Worms is skill and strategy based and ever-changing. You can see your gains clearly, and they come from actual skill development and not grinding. You can know exactly how and why you're doing better or worse, and the game doesn't Jew you at every turn. If you f@#! up it's your fault. There's an actual reward for persevering in Worms and it takes more brain power. It's infinitely more enjoyable than Monster Hunter.
16. When EVERY monster runs away at a certain point EVERY time and you have to chase it down and do the same thing over and over it's not realism. It's just an artificial game mechanic implemented to make fights last way longer than they should. Sure, in real life some animals might run away when injured, but others will fight to the death and not even think of running away. I would be fine with the running away if it made sense, like it was in reacting to a particularly devastating burst of damage and it was afraid for its life, but when every monster is programmed to run away after taking "X" amount of damage and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it from doing so and you are FORCED to chase it down many times over, it's lame as f@#!. At first I thought it was kinda cool but as with many aspects of MHW, it quickly lost its novelty. MHW is a flashy, good looking game that is utterly hollow on the inside. Also, how could my points not be based upon opinion? Isn't that what discussion about a game typically is, aside from actual game-breaking bugs/defects? Game reviews are just that - opinions. I'm not solving an equation here or offering a philosophical proof.
skunk3:
--- Quote from: skunk3 on September 07, 2018, 07:52 PM ---You seem to keep comparing real life to a video game for some inexplicable reason.
I'll go through some of the things you've said and respond:
1. If people don't like attacking huge monsters and think it is "gay as f@#!" then why even bother wasting their time with such a title, newcomer to the series (like me) or not?
2. About optimization. The UI is crap in various ways (play it for yourself), lots of graphical settings are not available, including bloom, DoF, advanced res options, motion blur, etc.
I haven't played any console versions nor do I even own any consoles anymore because, well, PC master race.
3. By limited depth I mean that the game itself is shallow on all fronts. The story is limited. The gameplay is limited. The amount of unique monsters you fight is limited. The level of uniqueness for each monster is limited. The gameplay literally doesn't change from the start aside from having access to a couple of extra buffs along the way, and slightly better gear, which really doesn't matter because unless you go back to low rank areas you never feel that increase in power at all... if anything you constantly feel more and more behind in power as the game progresses unless you intentionally don't progress through the story mode and instead grind out the same quests/investigations/events over and over and over again, but even then it barely helps. The game is eye candy really and has nothing to offer aside from that. Younger gamers probably love it but I of course am from the generation by which a game had to have some substance. It is very similar to a MMO, and I f@#!ing hate MMOs. Grinding is NOT my thing.
4. The fact that out of the 14 weapons available in the game, you typically see half or less of them actually used by people goes to show you that the balance is all wrong. Where is the incentive to practice with a weapon that is slow and clumsy to use when you can be just as effective with another weapon that is far more efficient? Also, not only are these heavy weapons slow to use, if you do whiff an attack (which happens often regardless of skill level) then the weapon gets stuck in the ground, which costs precious seconds, or there must be a slow animation in which the character has to hoist it back up into the air. You can get away with using some of these shittier weapons against certain monsters but against other monsters you might as well not even waste your time because they will be well out of harm's way by the time you can hit them. For me, slightly lower base damage and far more attacks actually landing and doing damage is better than a weapon with high base damage, but is slow and rarely connects, and this isn't because I'm some incompetent scrub who can't play video games... it's a simple observation of efficiency.
5. Many gameplay elements in MHW are needlessly punitive and make it far less fun. At best these punitive elements add more stress and drama to the situation but at worst they are a kick to the balls straight from the game devs and serve no purpose whatsoever aside from artificially inflating the difficulty of the game. For example, in one area there is a monster called Odogaron that spawns in certain spots and the monster itself is tough enough, but on top of that there's this toxic gas in the area that is constantly doing damage over time, and on top of that the monster inflict bleeding damage which is more damage over time. The way to stop bleeding? Crouch for like 3 seconds or use a certain item. Either way you basically have to stand still for a few seconds mid-fight, and if the anything even barely touches you, that process is canceled and you have to do it again. On top of that, there are often other smaller monsters that swarm you while fighting the Odogaron, so it basically is just layer upon layer of cheapness that you have to deal with while playing a game with shallow, boring combat. No thanks.
6. I don't know anything about any other MH game but in MHW you're always broke or next to broke unless you never forge or upgrade gear. The only way to not be broke is to grind and kill the same monsters you've already killed a hundred times just to get enough money to become slightly more powerful/resilient... and as I said before, I hate games that rely on grinding like that. There's no fun in it and it's just a time sink of you doing the same things over and over again. For many that's probably not an issue but for me I have better things to do with my life.
7. Until you hit end game grind-time you always feel horribly undergeared for whatever challenge you are presented with. Obviously the monsters in a game such as this are supposed to invoke a sense of power and ferocity, but once again, comparing this to real life is about as pointless as comparing anime to real life. Now that I have beaten the game I feel basically no incentive to keep grinding at all any my interest in the game has sharply declined.
8. The combat is extremely boring, and I don't care how popular the game is. You basically have two attacks and sometimes a special attack. You just spam the same thing over and over again while dodging out of the way until the monster is dead. There's no creativity involved at all. There's no real skill involved IMO either. You just wait for the monster to telegraph their move and get out of harm's way... then go back in and continue hacking. You just continue this cycle over and over until you win. It's boring, brute force, repetitive gameplay with no subtlety and very little individuality. There's lots of games with far less repetitive gameplay out there, or at the very least that version of repetitive gameplay is more cerebral.
9. The storyline of MHW could take up maybe 2 printed pages of text at the very most. It might as well be non-existent.
10. If you are playing a quest that you haven't done yet, you can't even join someone else or have someone join you until you go through the cutscene... so if you and a friend are playing through the game together, there are tons of times in which you guys will have to separately start quests on your own until you trigger the cutscene, watch it through, then cancel the quest and restart it so you can both attempt it together. It's idiotic and not like, say, Borderlands at all. I don't mind unskippable cutscenes THE FIRST TIME. However, after I've seen it once I want the option of skipping. I hate being forced to watch something I've already seen several times. (This is why I love how one of the W:A patches let us boot straight to the main screen so we didn't have to skip through shit to go online.)
11. Life is a grind in certain ways I suppose but once again, not relevant to this game. The older I get the more I value my free time. When I play a game I don't want to feel like I'm wasting time. I never feel as though Worms is wasted time. Games like MHW on the other hand = lots of wasted time. Games that involve a high degree of grinding simply just aren't good games, and I say this as a RPG nerd.
12. I haven't touched the game since beating the main storyline and seeing what the game has to offer. It seems to me that you're actually more upset about all of this than I am. I am just here sharing my opinions about a recent, high-profile game in an appropriate sub-forum and you're challenging me at every turn as though hearing the opinions of another is so abrasive to you that you feel compelled to defend it and insult me in the process, which is precisely what you're doing.
13. Basic game elements/mechanics shouldn't be kept a mystery from players. That is stupid. Of course there are aspects of games that could be discovered as you play through it, but to simply just not explain how something works intentionally or due to oversight? Come on man. Supporting that kinda dumb shit makes no sense. MHW is a game that REQUIRES players to look up things on the internet all of the time because you simply don't get the info you need in game. That's just bad design.
14. You CAN 'specialize' to a degree in the game but your options are seriously limited and to be actually effective and well suited for that role you want to play, it's not something you can really attempt to do until you are well into that end game grind phase... and by that point it's like why even bother? You've done everything you can do in the game. Everyone has their own tastes but I can't justify grinding unless there's a substantial and clear reward for doing so and my time is worth more than that.
15. Worms is skill and strategy based and ever-changing. You can see your gains clearly, and they come from actual skill development and not grinding. You can know exactly how and why you're doing better or worse, and the game doesn't Jew you at every turn. If you f@#! up it's your fault. There's an actual reward for persevering in Worms and it takes more brain power. It's infinitely more enjoyable than Monster Hunter.
16. When EVERY monster runs away at a certain point EVERY time and you have to chase it down and do the same thing over and over it's not realism. It's just an artificial game mechanic implemented to make fights last way longer than they should. Sure, in real life some animals might run away when injured, but others will fight to the death and not even think of running away. I would be fine with the running away if it made sense, like it was in reacting to a particularly devastating burst of damage and it was afraid for its life, but when every monster is programmed to run away after taking "X" amount of damage and there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop it from doing so and you are FORCED to chase it down many times over, it's lame as f@#!. At first I thought it was kinda cool but as with many aspects of MHW, it quickly lost its novelty. MHW is a flashy, good looking game that is utterly hollow on the inside. Also, how could my points not be based upon opinion? Isn't that what discussion about a game typically is, aside from actual game-breaking bugs/defects? Game reviews are just that - opinions. I'm not solving an equation here or offering a philosophical proof.
--- End quote ---
Sensei:
Wow
WTF-8:
--- Quote from: TheKomodo on September 07, 2018, 05:40 PM ---
--- Quote from: skunk3 on September 07, 2018, 07:22 AM ---a lot of the weapons are pure shit and ridiculously slow/awkward to use
--- End quote ---
it's how the game was made
--- End quote ---
TheKomodo:
I can't be bothered spending another 5-10 minutes setting up and preparing quotes so will just answer with numbers relative to what you posted:
1. I, personally, don't think the game is gay as f**k, because one, it doesn't make you a homosexual to play a game, and I think it's pretty awesome!
I just said this to point out sometimes it just comes down to opinion.
2. Personally, i've never ever cared much for graphics settings, i'll optimize it to the best the game allows, and i'm happy enough.
I am more interested in artstyle, scenery, character design etc.
This is really just opinion, the graphics in MHW are clearly more impressive than Worms Armageddon, yet we love that.
3. You keep saying "limited", why is that such a bad thing?
I don't agree with anything you've said here, I feel the opposite, and know plenty people on Facebook groups who feel the opposite way from you as well.
So yeah, again, opinion.
4. In life, people do things they enjoy, more often than things they don't enjoy.
Who cares if some weapons are used more than the others? Get over it already!
I know players who use every weapon in the game, I know players who use only 1/2 weapons.
I don't directly intend to sound offensive, but you are obviously not as good at games as you think you are.
Just because your timing isn't good enough NOT to miss, doesn't mean nobody else can do it.
Go watch some YouTube videos of Masters of the series, and I mean players who have put in 10,000+ hours plus of Monster Hunter games.
Sorry, but you just aren't good enough yet, spend hundreds, or thousands of hours practising, then come back to me with this opinion.
5. One mans treasure is another mans trash.
It's only punitive if you don't enjoy it, that is so obvious I shouldn't even have to say that to you...
Timing and memorizing patterns/routine, is crucial in this game.
You obviously just don't enjoy this style of gaming, that doesn't make the game bad just because it doesn't suit all your personal requirements.
6. I've never had a problem making money in any Monster Hunter game.
People who have a job, work 8+ hours a day, 5+ days a week, to make a measly amount of money, just enough to survive.
Let me share a few of my favourite George Carlin quotes with you here:
"Most people work just hard enough not to get fired and get paid just enough money not to quit."
"Hard work is a misleading term, physical effort & long hours do not constitude hard work, hard work is when someone pays you to do something you'd rather not be doing, anytime you'd rather be doing something other than the thing you're doing, you're doing hard work."
This is also aimed at your #5 "punitive" comments.
7. I've never felt under geared in any Monster Hunter game unless I joined a hunt with a much higher rank than i'm supposed to.
It seems to me you were so fed up with the game in general, you couldn't wait to finish it.
Most people I know who love this game, take their time, explore everything, collect everything, so they are carefully stockpiling supplies and gear.
If you try and rush through a game that's designed like this, you WILL feel the way you do.
They love preparing for the next level up, they make sure they have everything they need first, it's part of the fun for them...
So yeah, the fact you say you have completed the game and your interest has declined, doesn't surprise me.
8. Ok, what you done wrong here is state "the combat is extremely boring" as aif that's a fact that everyone on the planet should agree with, whereas you should have said "I think the combat is extremely boring".
If you find it boring, the people who find it fun, don't care lol.
If you wanna play other games that suit your interests, that isn't a crime ;)
9. The storyline of Worms Armageddon can be summed up in 1 sentence, we still love the game!
I don't mean to sound offensive right now, but I bet many people would find the storyline of Monster Hunter world, more fascinating than your entire life story, as they would mine, or many other people.
You can't force someone to genuinely enjoy something, don't even try, not even with yourself!
10. I honestly don't see that as a problem really.
Afaik in previous Monster Hunter games, all players must choose to skip the cutscene in order for it to be skipped, I think this is perfectly fair.
If, everyone has already saw the cutscene, or want to skip it, but can't, then yes, that is a problem and should be addressed with the developers.
11. Again, I refer you to my George Carlin quotes earlier in the post.
I don't see you as a gaming nerd, as much as I see you as a gaming critic.
Even I realize, my opinion about the gaming industry today, that it sucks, is just an opinion, and doesn't relate to everyone else in the world.
DLC, microtransactions, P2W etc, are all lame to me, but other people enjoy that, and if other people are happy doing it, why the f**k should I let that bother me? I can easily just do something else or play games I do enjoy lol.
And yes, it most certainly is relative to the game, because playing a game, even online, is still part of your life, it's still part of the universe and time and matter.
Don't be so naive.
12. I don't care if you like the game or not.
What I do care about, is people passing off opinions as facts, which is exactly what you are doing. The words you are using, and the way you are using them are the reason I am here opposing you.
Think about that?
I love Monster Hunter, why would I be upset about someone not enjoying it? That doesn't affect my passion for it.
Besides, you came on here insulting the game to begin with, lashing out on things YOU personally don't enjoy, am I not allowed to do the same thing, but with an opposite experience and opinion of what is good/bad?
People like us, debating like this, help other people to make decisions about buying a product, that's a good thing, not a bad thing!
I actually have to thank you because without your knowledge and review of some bugs/connection issues, I would have bought this game, and been angry about the some of the issues, so you saved me some money at this moment that I was able to use on something else, I actually chose to spent the £50 I saved on this game, to visit a nice girl, so thanks :P
13. Wow.... Sometimes you should take a step back and think...
How do you think all that information about Monster Hunter got online in the 1st place?
The answer would be, people who actually love the game who spent countless hours experimenting and testing, discovering everything that was possible in the game.
These are the kind of intelligent, passionate, and disciplined people I enjoy associating myself with in life.
These are like the scientists of the gaming world, the people who get sh*t done!
14. Yeah fair enough, we get the point, your time is valuable, same goes for everyone else too.
Spend your time doing things you enjoy, I don't blame you :)
You just need to try harder to find games you enjoy, it's not a crime to be picky about the things you want in life, I actually admire that about you.
15. First off, that's pretty f**king bad of you to say "Jew you", I know some jewish people, including members of this community, and they are pretty nice guys! Using that term as if being a Jew is stereotyping in a racist way, and if you act like this again, I will use my powers as a moderator of this forum to clean your post up, if you do it again after that, i'll delete your entire post.
I have a very open sense of humour, but keep sh*t like that private please.
To be honest mate, the AI in Worms is pretty retarded as well, surely you've played a BnG against CPU-5?
You are comparing a game that focuses on PvP, against one that focuses on PvE.
Without the ability to play against other people on WA, i'd never have found it anywhere near as interesting.
If MH was focused on PvP, I wouldn't enjoy it anywhere near as much.
WA is my favourite PvP game of all time, MH, WoW and Zelda are my favourite PvE games of all time.
I don't have the same struggles as you when playing MH games, I usually always know what I am doing, if I ever get stuck, I keep at it, trying different sh*t until I figure it out, that's part of the fun for me, obviously this isn't something you enjoy doing in life, that isn't a game flaw or anything though...
Please explain to me the reward for persevering in Worms, other than winning $10 or something in one of Kinslayers Tournaments lol.
There are also speedruns and world records for Monster Hunter, I would imagine if you love the game enough to participate in that stuff, and managed to break a world record, that would feel pretty f**king rewarding and have tons of groupies desperate to spawn your child!
16. If every monster runs away at a certain point every time, and you have to chase it down, doesn't that tell you that's the way it's supposed to be lol?
This quote is pretty f**king stupid:
--- Quote ---Sure, in real life some animals might run away when injured, but others will fight to the death and not even think of running away.
--- End quote ---
Q: You know what happens if you don't run away from a superior being that wants you dead and you are completely overpowered?
A: You die.
The monster runs away, to try and sleep/heal, then it'll try to fight you again.
Also, many species in real life, don't even understand the concept of death, they can tolerate an incredible amount of pain just because of that fact.
You are actually some methods you can use to prevent monsters from running away, but honestly, go figure that out yourself.
As for this:
--- Quote ---At first I thought it was kinda cool but as with many aspects of MHW, it quickly lost its novelty.
--- End quote ---
I've felt this way about many games/films, it's ok man, it's part of being human, trial and error.
The best thing you can do, is do more research into a game and find ways to access games in a way that helps you realize if you will enjoy it or not.
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