This is regarding game #37032 mm Vs cfc
We lost 52 points for this game, it was a w2Roper, before I continue my clanmates played the game I didn't so they must have obviously accepted this, I can accept them losing, but this is what bothers me, even if we had won, we would gain less points.
w2Roper is NOT the same as a normal Roper, there is different tactics and gameplay altogether, so why should we lose points for a different scheme from a scheme we gained alot of points with?
w2Roper should be a seperate scheme, just like Shopper and WxW, as they are the same concept, with different rules as well.
Who else agrees?
And before avi comes on here moaning at me, even if this wasn't my clan, or we had won the game I would still be posting this.
w2roper shit !! don't add this pls ! [or add to free leauge]
If they refused to play w2roper. Classic would of had to been played.
Quote from: Chicken23 on August 25, 2010, 07:21 AM
If they refused to play w2roper. Classic would of had to been played.
I know, but do you understand my point?
The point is, they are 2 different schemes, so why 2 schemes = 1 set of points?
Should be 2 different schemes...
it would be the same if nrbng was allowed. I see your point. But if i didnt like w2roper id just refuse to play it and force classic. Same with bng. But i'll turn in my grave the day nrbng is a classic league scheme. 7 griders in t17 is bad enough.
I'd be happy with NrBnG if it was a different scheme...
Despite I and Oky didn't like the idea of playing ''w2 roper'' and I use '' '' coz as I remember the roper played in r ladder was a way different, we didn't refuse coz that is not our style.
I agree with Komo, they'd be separated, ''w2 roper'' has nothing to do with roper, Avi and Shy have a great advantage just picking this because they know strategies, tactics and experience to develop a better game than us, I'm not saying this is unfair, I'm pointing out a reality.
In this league is so easy to pop up with an idea, discuss it a little bit and finally make that idea a fact. Avi came with this roper thing and in few days it's part of the schemes that can be played in classic games.
Things should be done in a natural way, if there were a lot of people hosting and playing w2 roper this scheme should be added, but being honest the only ones I've seen hosting it is Avi, Shy, Dulek and no one else. The rest of the classic schemes are quite popular, everyone can see shoppers hosted all day long by noobs, average and well known players; but I'm pretty sure than no one apart from this league know that this kind of roper does even exist.
I highly respect MI and ppl working for free in this league, I'm also mod in LW and I know how hard is to deal with a lot of players, but honestly the way this league take desicions of such importance and relevance is naive and weak, seems like TuS lacks of confidence and character, tomorrow another oldschool will create a new variety of I don't know, w2 bng lol, will set up a poll and will have people voting yes for this crap only to be nice and form part of his gang and done, we have a new scheme in TuS.
I like how TuS is open to new ideas in order to improve the league; nevertheless as TuS is willing to discuss and approve those ideas, TuS should also learn to say NO.
I'm pretty impressed with that lalo :)
"Things should be done in a natural way, if there were a lot of people hosting and playing w2 roper this scheme should be added, but being honest the only ones I've seen hosting it is Avi, Shy, Dulek and no one else. The rest of the classic schemes are quite popular, everyone can see shoppers hosted all day long by noobs, average and well known players; but I'm pretty sure than no one apart from this league know that this kind of roper does even exist."
I couldn't agree more with this.
And lol, w2BnG LOL ! NEVER !
i agree, w2roper should be set as a different scheme all together... and please, dont say there is different strategy... standard roping has no strategy.. just simply say "there is strategy"
and btw: that was mine and shyguys first time playing w2roper 2v2.. we were simply useing our heads as to what to do, where to hide, and when to pile...
however, we did know the tactic of when to get crates, and when to leave them behind... but i would think thats pretty simple for anybody to figure out...
and saying that MI went about this in any kinda of bad way is rediculous... he made a poll.. 50% of the poll was yes, 50% of the poll was no.. he said his plans in advanced.. giving about a weeks notice that the scheme would be coming into effect, and even gave the no voters the upper hand, by offerings the option to refuse the scheme when it comes time ti play...
l
another thing is... u have no idea how many people refused w2roper when me and shy ask for it.. the main reason "oh i have not tried that yet, nope" and lalo, even your clanmate has said.. "i have not tried that yet"
at one point will u guyz decide to give it a try..
lalo, i know u dont fully understand all the strategy and the tactics involved in the game, but u cant tell me that roper is not much more strategic.. me and shyguy really enjoyed the game.. its a shame u people dont consider it as scheme more often that not.
i do agree with komo tho... this should be set as a totally different scheme... (and make it so people can not refuse it) hell, i cant refuse rr, can i?
Of course normal Roper has strategy, more so in 2on2 obviously, but still has strategy, w2Roper doesn't exactly have much strategy either in that case, just a decision to make, "Am I good enough to get that crate and hit, or not?"
There are strategies for both.
For example, hiding, on top or under, when to use FD, when to use a grenade and keep the player in the same spot, or push him somewhere to stop him getting out as easy - LOTS of little strategies actually ;)
Oh, and for the last time:
I HAVE TRIED YOUR SCHEME ALREADY - AND LIKE IT ! JUST NOT AS MUCH AS NORMAL ROPER.
Lol...
hiding on top is considered lame...
when to use FD? my only thought is whenever and as much as u possible can..
keeping the worm inside a hide, rather then knocking him for easy access to rope out easily? genius..
and to say that w2roper has no strategy is silly.... ur the first, and only one to say that.
Avi and Shy have a great advantage just picking this because they know strategies, tactics and experience to develop a better game than us -lalo
Where did I say w2Roper has no strategy?
"when to use FD? my only thought is whenever and as much as u possible can.."
This same thing goes to your crate rule, collect it and attack whenever and as much as possible...
And I don't see why hiding on top is considered lame, it IS a strategy that undoubtly works, without fail (unless you fail)
You should be good enough to keep up with the other player so that they don't get the advantage to do this anyway.
And actually, if anything w2Roper is easier, because you DO NOT have to collect the crate before you can attack, so technically, if you get your 1st 4-5 crates, and hit all those shots, and opponent misses 1-2, you can just finish them off without collecting all the crates, some strategy...
Only thing that makes it harder is having 12s, which is kind of cancelled out with the no crate rule factor.
But do you really want to leave 1-2 crates for your opponent? Counting his drops, you are looking at him gaining about 50-100 hp if you decide to do that... it puts him right back in the game, so there is more behind then scheme than that
komo, everything that u say is not backed up by facts.. u have not played this scheme nearly enough to understand it.. and my guess is u have not even tried it on w:a... ur just going from your shortly lived worms2 experience.
w2roping is much more skillfull and strategic... and if im wrong that u have tried this scheme komo, id like u to prove it to me right now, i want u to upload the replay of u trying the scheme... and dont fake one :P be honest.. prove me wrong right now!!
but back to the topic at hand... i do agree with komo w2roping should be made seperate from roper.. but ONLY in the agreement that its not a choice to be played like it is now, u HAVE to play it... like when cfc wants rr against me... think ill win? nope.. but i play it!
I ain't uploading shit, I ain't doing it cuz you told me to...
You have known me long enough to know that I don't lie so think what you want...
You only have to play the scheme 2-3 times to understand it, seeing as I am a very experienced roper also, I have played this game since the start, I already have FULL KNOWLEDGE of every possible thing you can do with the rope in this type of scheme, so taking away 3 seconds of turntime, 5 seconds of retreat time, and the choice to collect crate or not, does not take a rocket scientist to put 2 and 2 together.
End of story, I ain't getting involved in this anymore (the arguing)
I have my opinion, you have yours, lets leave it at that shall we?
Also, for the people who haven't tried the scheme, i'm sure alot of them watched the replays you and ShyGuy uploaded, and seeing as you are the experts on this, then surely watching that is all they need to know to learn the "tactics etc"...
Quote from: ShyGuy on August 25, 2010, 11:05 AM
But do you really want to leave 1-2 crates for your opponent? Counting his drops, you are looking at him gaining about 50-100 hp if you decide to do that... it puts him right back in the game, so there is more behind then scheme than that
At the end of the game - Yes, it saves time and is pointless if you have the lead and can kill them, and if it is a hard crate you are leaving, what's the chances of them getting both? So if you miss that turn where you didn't collect crate, which seems near impossible, or at the most, embarassing, you can collect that one, and the next one, the next turn without attacking and get your hide back, eitherway, the situation I just described begs to favour of not collecting the crate.
lol @ u saying ur done.. then making 2 more posts.. ur always good for a laugh my friendly friend :)
and btw, i was pretty confident you could not show a replay ;) no big deal tho.
Quote from: Komo on August 25, 2010, 11:30 AM
Quote from: ShyGuy on August 25, 2010, 11:05 AM
But do you really want to leave 1-2 crates for your opponent? Counting his drops, you are looking at him gaining about 50-100 hp if you decide to do that... it puts him right back in the game, so there is more behind then scheme than that
At the end of the game - Yes, it saves time and is pointless if you have the lead and can kill them, and if it is a hard crate you are leaving, what's the chances of them getting both? So if you miss that turn where you didn't collect crate, which seems near impossible, or at the most, embarassing, you can collect that one, and the next one, the next turn without attacking and get your hide back, eitherway, the situation I just described begs to favour of not collecting the crate.
You said I should just leave any crate and attack... not just the hard ones. If my opponent has been getting crates consistently, then I would say letting him get that 50-100 can put him right back into safety... it has happened to me before, and it is easier collecting 2-3 crates if you devote your whole turn to it than you think...
You say it is pointless if you have the lead and can kill him, but your lead gets decreased and it is harder to kill him when he can gain 50-100 hp in a single turn... just logic there... and your argument about it saving time... well... who cares?
Quote from: Komo on August 25, 2010, 10:56 AM
And actually, if anything w2Roper is easier, because you DO NOT have to collect the crate before you can attack, so technically, if you get your 1st 4-5 crates, and hit all those shots, and opponent misses 1-2, you can just finish them off without collecting all the crates, some strategy...
Only thing that makes it harder is having 12s, which is kind of cancelled out with the no crate rule factor.
Anyway, that is totally situational... do you think it will happen often that you will get 4-5 get-and-attack crates with only 13 seconds 4-5 turns in a row? Also, your opponent has to miss 1-2 crates... so your scenario is highly improbable, and even if it does happen, I explained how their can still be strategy.
Sorry komo, you say it only takes 2-3 games to get w2roper, but you either don't get it, or you truly haven't really tried the scheme... from what I'm hearing you say, anyway
I agree it should be a separate scheme and no refusals allowed
Quote from: avirex on August 25, 2010, 05:41 PM
lol @ u saying ur done.. then making 2 more posts.. ur always good for a laugh my friendly friend :)
and btw, i was pretty confident you could not show a replay ;) no big deal tho.
LOL ! Man I take pride in seeing how thick you really are lol...
And I quote:
"End of story, I ain't getting involved in this anymore (the arguing)"
You see those brackets? Sorry you are not clever enough to figure it out for yourself, so here you go, i'll spell it out for you lol:
This means I am done with the arguing, but not the debate.
Man, your stupidity never ceases to amaze me :) Thanks for that lol...
^^ You started the insults so take it like you give it :) I'm just joking around anyway, but now i'm gonna get serious...
ShyGuy, I stand by yes, leave any crate and attack, if you have the sufficient lead to win the game without needing them, ie, you have 160 or something, and they have 40-60.
And yes I do think it will happen often, just as it won't happen often as well, my scenario has happened thousands and thousands of times in a normal roper scheme, just didn't have the option to ignore crates, I have tried the scheme and I do get it, everyone has different strategies, this isn't even mine, it's just something I am saying you can do...
r u seriously calling me thick right now? all ur doing is argueing, u can call it debating all you want, but u get so f@#!ing caught up in ur banter, u dont even remember what the debate is about...
we are talking about if w2roper should be in its own scheme, because mm took so many of your precious points in a roper, and its unfair because they are not even the same scheme... lmfaooooooo... thats the debate u numbskull
and btw when did i start the insult? lol... i simpley lol'd @ you.. just like everyone else on w:a does... you retaliate with calling me all sorts of stupid! lol... thats a fair exchange....
but, i dont mind... anything u say does not mean much to me, or any1 else here
Quote from: avirex on August 26, 2010, 10:42 AM
and btw when did i start the insult? lol... i simpley lol'd @ you.. just like everyone else on w:a does...
Funny how my Karma has shot right up, while yours has shot right down, now knowing this has nothing to do with the debate, it does however prove you wrong on your "everyone agrees with me" rant...
And yes, i'm calling you thick, because you decided to try and be a smartass about me not posting again and you got it wrong because that's not even exactly what I said ;)
And you started the insults 1/2 weeks ago, but you wouldn't remember that, or even if you do, you will try and deny it, just to refresh your memory, you started it in the thread because I didn't like your scheme, you got frustrated and went off on one, and whether you like to admit it or not, you have been making snarky little comments for the past few weeks, and i've been trying to debate, I have even said on a number of occasions that I have my opinions, and that I respect yours, and that I like w2Rope scheme, but I prefer Normal Rope scheme, and you STILL decide to moan at me about it, and continue the silly arguement, because you just can't accept I have my opinion and you have yours, why can't you just agree to disagree? Or you too proud and stubborn to do that? I can keep this up longer than you, without losing it like you, trust me.
komo, ur applauds went from -50 to -8 in about 5 days... i wouldnt say people likes ur posts that much... im just guessing you have nice clan mates... its obvious. lmfao.. proud?
all u do is bicker and banter in every post, ur boring now.
1st off, theres only like 1-2 of my clanmates actually applading me, just like yours, 2nd, I know exactly who is smiting me, and so do you, it's obvious ;)
And last but not least, your saying all I do is bicker and banter in every post? Have you even looked at yourself from a different perspective? Such a hypocrit lol, takes 2 to tango avi, and you've been the other half recently...
lol u just dont stop!!
ok komo, ur right about everything u said in w2roper...
ur right about ur karma.. i guess u have had some really earth shattering posts lately, so everyones has been appluading you...
ur right about god
ur right about life
ur right about me :) now end it.. and give me a hug u big teddy bear
I don't believe in god, but I do believe there has to be something after death or before I don't know, if not, then why are we here at this PRECISE time? Anyway, this will get WAY WAY off topic so let's end the God thing NOW haha...
About life, I guess i'm old fashioned lol
And <3 :) XoX (Oh, and hands off the goods haha)
(http://www.mksecrets.net/images/mk3/mk3-glitch17.png)
W2roper was added with the condition that it's an option. IMO, it's not nearly popular enough to be accepted as a full scheme in the traditional section, otherwise we should have seperate schemes for NRBNG, Low gravity RR, moonshopper and every other little subscheme we have for the other schemes.
As it stands, the classic league consists of 4 rope schemes and 4 non-rope schemes. Sounds good enough to me.
Regarding the side saying they don't want to lose too many points cause they're not used to W2 rope: either don't play it or get better at it. W2R is an option and if you don't want it, then it's WA roper.
Yes but what I am saying is that, if w2Roper was actually a seperate scheme, and didn't affect Roper standings as they are 2 different things, I would probably play it now and again because I do like it.
I will not play it as as it is now because I don't want to change other ratings when it shouldn't...
And how are you supposed to see how many w2Ropers are being played if it doesn't have its own selection?
Quote from: DarkOne on August 29, 2010, 08:28 AM
As it stands, the classic league consists of 4 rope schemes and 4 non-rope schemes. Sounds good enough to me.
And this is really important to keep the league balanced. If w2roper would be a new classic scheme with its own ranking, then a strong roper has a too big advantage over a strong default player.
And as I see w2roper causing a lot more problems then crates in normal roper do, Im gonna change my vote about w2roper. I think luck is a part of the game and its just ok as long as the influence of luck is not the main decisive thing for the outcome of a match ;d
Hmm, you have a good point there Random, about 4/4...
I never looked at it that way...
However I still find it unfair to be able to use the same points as Roper, but I guess that's my opinion...