This rule definitely needs to be implemented for TRL and I would also like to see this rule be implemented league wide.
Rule: No map can be used more then once by the hosting player in a season. Any game using a map more then once that the hosting player wins will be void and should be replayed.
I don't know if everyone is aware at how big of a difference playing the same maps over and over make. Not only is it lame it gives an unfair advantage that just doesn't need to be there. I've witnessed over the years playing w:a and specifically the w2 ladder that was very competitive the difference it makes when someone uses the same maps over and over. Someone who is completely familiar with a map can rope much better on that map. I've witnessed complete noobs that couldn't rope at all on someone else's hosted map, be able to beat many people they shouldn't have just by using the same maps over and over.
To those that believe hosting on the same maps all the time doesn't give an unfair advantage and this rule should not be implemented; What could it hurt to add this rule? I played purely roper league for many many years and definitely know that using the same map over and over does make a difference. Why else would the term map whore exist?
I believe it is a simple and easy rule to implement and will add greatly to the fairness of the league.
I look forward to hearing others input on this.
Johnny
I've witnessed the same thing and agree with this suggestion. And while we're at it, void all future league games played on HHC maps (being serious here) and add this rule to TEL as well. The TUS system should be able to recognize when the same supposedly random map is used in 2 or more games.
well someone can pick the same map twice,not on purpose.
for example I got the MAblak pack,and mostly play Mablak maps.
I choose Mablak #10 in a game @ the start of a season,then i can accidently choose it again in a game @ the finish of that season.
let's say i would win a game vs a player with a hight TRL overall and i would play that game on a map that's picked for the 2nd time.(not on purpose)
that game would get void...imo that's not pretty fair :-[
Unfortunately that would be your fault and your responsibility. Move the map out of your folder after you play it if you are worried. Move it back in after the season.
Quote from: darKz on February 10, 2011, 06:23 AMThe TUS system should be able to recognize when the same supposedly random map is used in 2 or more games.
It's a good idea but I don't think it'd work. Just delete a pixel and the map would be unrecognizable for TUS, that's pretty obvious.
How about creating an official
huge map pack for TUS classic league? So that everytime someone picks a scheme, the system should give the user a map randomly, and of course it shouldn't be used more than once a season.
Quote from: Johnny on February 10, 2011, 09:50 AM
Good ideas, but no need to make it complicated. Having a won game void if its found out they used the same map more then once should work good enough as a deterrent. They get caught, they get there won game voided.
I don't agree unless it's automated. You won't be there checking out ALL the games played to see who's using the same maps... Will you?
Good ideas, but no need to make it complicated. Having a won game void if its found out they used the same map more then once should work good enough as a deterrent. They get caught, they get there won game voided.
I like this rule. I believe it makes games even more exciting. But informing the whole community will be tricky.
It's also the players' responsibility to check the announcements for rule changes highlighted in red. ;)
Good idea, but I'd hate if the system would pick maps for me. It's not it's business! :D Other then that... you can see there are people who play over 200 or 300 games in a season, you expect them to remember all the maps they played in that particular season or move their maps every time after they played? That sounds silly.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on February 10, 2011, 09:58 AM
I like this rule. I believe it makes games even more exciting. But informing the whole community will be tricky.
When did I suggest newsletters? Like a year ago? Plus the rule is not to increase excitement, it's rather to decrease the unfair advantages.
Quote from: darKz on February 10, 2011, 10:22 AM
It's also the players' responsibility to check the announcements for rule changes highlighted in red. ;)
Agreed.
This is a good idea for the people against it, but what about 2 players who actually enjoy playing on the same map together? Surely it's unfair to take away that freedom for them?
Adding the rule, but giving the option if 2 players agree would be even fairer.
Yep, good idea and easy to implement i guess with the way tus handles maps from played games. You just won't be able to report the game if the map is the same you used already in the season. :) Will get a bit tricky though i think remembering which maps you already played and which you didn't...
Quote from: chakkman on February 10, 2011, 05:01 PM
Yep, good idea and easy to implement i guess with the way tus handles maps from played games. You just won't be able to report the game if the map is the same you used already in the season. :) Will get a bit tricky though i think remembering which maps you already played and which you didn't...
Easy to cheat tho, removing or adding a pixel :)
Hm, true that.
Quote from: Johnny on February 10, 2011, 06:58 AM
Move the map out of your folder after you play it if you are worried. Move it back in after the season.
If I'm right, you're saying that some people play very often on the same map.
Why not just add a max number of played game on same map ?
Like 6 for example.
Easy to check, and a little coding could just deny the report saying it's the same map.
Also the player could get a warning before the limit is reached so he won't have a void win ^^.
Quote from: zippeurfou on February 10, 2011, 07:32 PM
If I'm right, you're saying that some people play very often on the same map.
Why not just add a max number of played game on same map ?
Like 6 for example.
Easy to check, and a little coding could just deny the report saying it's the same map.
Also the player could get a warning before the limit is reached so he won't have a void win ^^.
Yea thats an idea, but people have already stated that you could make a minute edit and it wouldn't be recognized as the same map and there is no need for MI to have to do any extra work and code anything. We can police this ourselves then make a complaint to make the game void. Theres no need to play a map more then once in a season. Saying a player could use the same map even twice is too much in my opinion. There is just no need for it.
i agree, there is no reason to play a map more then once per season...
as far as myself, i never repeat a map EVER... i believe in every map being random, i dont even have roper maps saved.. i even randomize shopper maps.
its obvious that repeating maps gives one person an advantage, there is no way anyone can say otherwise...
as people said, there is no way to enforce the rule through TUS coding, or anything.. because as mentioned, just changing a pixel will trick the system...
but we can make it a rule, and if you opponent catches it, and wants to make a complain, the game could be voided.. but if both agreed on playing the certain map then that would obviously be ok...
but sure, a rule should be made.. and enforced... imo
I also like this idea, I am myself a fan of random Maps, well RR of course it's different but people that are aware of this rule could just take a lot of RR maps and work them down 1-100 for example each Season. Not totally random but it would be good enough if you ask me. :)
Quote from: avirex on February 11, 2011, 12:45 AM
as far as myself, i never repeat a map EVER...
Funny that, remember our Clanner Playoffs? You used that cavern Shopper map with the monkeys, and you used it in Singles also.
There is nothing wrong with using the same map
a few times.
Stop trying to control how other people enjoy the game, it's just not right :(
Quote from: Komito on February 11, 2011, 10:25 AM
Quote from: avirex on February 11, 2011, 12:45 AM
as far as myself, i never repeat a map EVER...
Funny that, remember our Clanner Playoffs? You used that cavern Shopper map with the monkeys, and you used it in Singles also.
There is nothing wrong with using the same map a few times.
Stop trying to control how other people enjoy the game, it's just not right :(
MARIO SHOPPER MAP FTW!
ok, i have used a shoppa map more then once only because i did not feel like making another... did u notice it was a random generated map tho... not some mario map (sorry chicken)
besides, we needed some kind of advantage, there were 8 cfc vs me and shyguy for mm, and u told us "YOU HAVE TO PLAY RIGHT NOW, OR WE WILL TAKE THE FREE WIN" hah
why do u worry so much about every little thing i say and do trollmodo? give it a rest... 99.9% of the time i use random maps for every scheme.. ask anyone of my clan mates that would tell you.. but this thread is not about me trollmodo, so stfu get back on topic lol jeez
Lol you are such a drama queen Jeff.
1st off, I never complained or said anything bad about the fact you used the same map, I think there is nothing wrong with it, stop jumping to bad conclusions everytime I mention your name please.
Secondly, I never said "play right now or we will take the free win" I said "if you refuse to play the TTRR with us we CAN take a free win" because you were in the huff because I wanted to watch.
What do you mean "get back on topic lol jeez" correct me if I am wrong, but isn't this topic about using the same map and isn't that what I said about you?
stop worrying about every little thing i say, and just stay focused on topics...
its all u wanna do is troll.. and try to "debate" pointless shit... ur a pointless scott, im sure u will respond with something stupid now... so go head, ill give u the last word.. gnight babydoll
You've lost it like
Quote from: Komito on February 11, 2011, 10:39 PM
You've lost it like
.Please don't make every thread about you. I appreciate your input but everything else is not needed sorry,
Johnny all I said is i've seen avi repeat maps before and he spat the dummy and lost the plot got over emotional and started throwing false accusations at me, you're a f@#!ing suckup brown nosing avi, go grow a pair.
ok so back to topic
I'm up for a rule but sorry i'm not gonna download 200 RR maps or Shoppers cause I usually dont pick them.. I have 30-50 RR maps and 15 shopper maps and I play them when I need to host for my opponent cause he cant.. if someone picks it and he cant host, i'm not going to download more maps for him
My opinion: There is no need to do a rule about maps. Sure, if someone just play on same map now and forever, we have to warn him. But usually the better roper wins the ttrr and the luckier and non-picker the roper. (some irony inside). ;d
Just let it be. :)
Quote from: Almog on February 13, 2011, 12:38 PM
ok so back to topic
I'm up for a rule but sorry i'm not gonna download 200 RR maps or Shoppers cause I usually dont pick them.. I have 30-50 RR maps and 15 shopper maps and I play them when I need to host for my opponent cause he cant.. if someone picks it and he cant host, i'm not going to download more maps for him
I totally agree with you there Almog, but then again, this is TRL, not TuS, so if you play the league you are automatically picking Roper, some people might get tetchy about that :S
komo, if u are at this thread looking for a fight... you have come to the wrong place... im bored of you... and johnny does not seem to interested in your petty shit either...
i will no longer 'spat the dummy' with you... whatever the f@#! that means
i think that always we should play in random maps.. made on time !.. would be nice !
avi, you are the one that started swearing and acting threatened just because I said you used the same map, I didn't swear at you, I didn't insult you, I didn't even say it was a bad thing, I even said it's ok to use the same map a few times, if anyone is looking for an arguement it's you.
Anyway, back onto subject.
For players who are very good, for example Crash, if he uses the same map over and over, literally let's say at least 10 times a week, yes, that's lame, it gives him an advantage, but then again if you are stupid enough to keep playing him on the same map then you are lame too cuz you agreed.
Let's take what I do for example, I rarely play Ropers, but I can be very good at times, and not so good at other times, but I am generally not considered a threat to anyone, a big reason for this is because all people see me do is BnG, but anyway, I have about 20 Roper maps I have created myself, and these are the only maps i've used for the last 3-4 years, I have used other maps and played on other maps now and again, but i'll usually use mine.
But the reasons for me using those maps is not to "learn the maps", for starters my opinion of a good Roper map is completely different from most people who play Ropers now, I enjoy maps where even the hardest possible crates are somewhat possible to hit, but ONLY if you can use the Rope smoothly and effectively enough, I don't like 90% of the maps people play with, there is too many zig zag tunnels not to mention ridiculously tight hides and sides and some even too close to the top for the way I enjoy to Rope, even if I was the most consistent Roper and never fell, I still wouldn't be confident enough to lay my trust in a map that a few crates could possibly lose a game for me.
The maps I normally use, if I fall, even once, and my opponent doesn't, 9 times out of 10 I will lose, and that is the way it should be, none of this, you get lucky with crates after falling 2-3 times and your opponent getting horrible crates and you end up winning when you played bad because to me that does not deserve a win.
The most important thing here, which only really applies to me and won't really apply to most players who Rope, more importanly complain about repeating maps, is the fact I play about 5 Ropers a month, I am not the fastest or most consistent Roper therefor using the same map 2 or 3 times a month isn't an advantage for me because even if I do know the map inside out, my skills prevent me from perfecting it.
However, since I am keen on playing TRL (and I played quite a few the other night), I was using maps I haven't used before and editing about 30% - 40% of the land for each game, I used the same map we played a Clanner with against daina because she requested that map I used for the clanner, and she's better than me anyway lol.
These opinions are not intended to be debatable or in any way directed at anyone for any reason, they are just my opinions so I am not looking for people to yell at me or start another stupid arguement, *COUGH COUGH COUGHaviCOUGH*.
didnt even read this.. *yawn*
back to the topic
sorry to reopen an old topic. But has something have (or is planned) been done about that ?
I support this rule, there's lot of maps for each scheme, accidentaly puting the same map can't be an excuse.
I have already 150 trl ttrr impossible not to play twice the same map.
Still 20 days and i will maybe have 250 trl games at this moment.
Maybe a rule like "you can use the same map only 1 on 100 trl games". That's only 1/100..
And btw in rr we start to know every map .. So fairly i shouldn't play 1 game of trl.
Quote from: Flori on July 07, 2012, 01:47 AM
I have already 150 trl ttrr impossible not to play twice the same map.
Still 20 days and i will maybe have 250 trl games at this moment.
Maybe a rule like "you can use the same map only 1 on 100 trl games". That's only 1/100..
And btw in rr we start to know every map .. So fairly i shouldn't play 1 game of trl.
In thiss case may rise an exception.