A quick example - a clanner gets tied and we're about rematching it.
And the question - are we allowed to switch between players for playing that 2nd game?
In my opinion rematching takes effects which are playing exactly same map (unless it was t17 or elite, eventually hysteria) with exactly same players (unless that player really has to go, then fair plays calls for giving that clan a chance) as it was at the 1st game.
Quote from: Dulek on November 11, 2010, 08:43 PM
A quick example - a clanner gets tied and we're about rematching it.
And the question - are we allowed to switch between players for playing that 2nd game?
In my opinion rematching takes effects which are playing exactly same map (unless it was t17 or elite, eventually hysteria) with exactly same players (unless that player really has to go, then fair plays calls for giving that clan a chance) as it was at the 1st game.
As far as I know, you can change the lineup because it's technically a new and different game.
Quote from: Komo on November 11, 2010, 08:51 PM
...technically a new and different game.
I share Komo's opinion, I even think that playing the same map is unnecessary. One game was tied, well, we play one more. It doesn't have to be same lineup and map and everything.
i dont agree...
if u play a ttrr and its a draw... it 100% sure should be the same players... it would be bullshit if me and nino ttrr together( i suck, and hes pretty skilled but not own ) and everyone sinks.... then all of a sudden mablak and shyguy come online, and kick pplz ass.. it just would not be fair to the team we play... imo, a draw should be played with the same line-up
if there is not already, there should be a rule on it one way or another.... either for, or against a new line-up...
i loved the irony @ hes pretty skilled ROFL. XDDDD
Still I don't see any problem. It is clanner, not single 2vs2. You wanna beat a clan, not its specific members.
avi has a point, sure it would feel like you just been raped if you were playing against avi and nino, then mablak and shyguy come on, but I see nothing wrong with it, like MI said you are trying to beat the clan as a whole, not individuals.
There is nothing I can do if people pick BnG against cFc without myself, or any the other good BnG players there, sure it feels like scheme bashing, but it's all fair in the end, what goes around comes around.
Quote from: Komo on November 11, 2010, 08:51 PMAs far as I know, you can change the lineup because it's technically a new and different game.
It's an extension, not a different game.
MI told me that it's like with football where people get switched during the game. Exactly, DURING the game. Sadly, in worms replacing players might happen only after the game is done, not during it. I'm not sure if what I say is actually true, but if we compare rematching to penalities, are subs, who didn't play the game, allowed to participate in them?
I agree with Dulek on this one. Of course if a player drops his net or reall g2g its not the same, but in principal the rm should be the same as previous game.
Anyways what bothers me more are those clans who refuse 2 tell their picks, like yesterday vs dP ( this is an example, i really like and get along good with the dP guys) , we clanner them. Me, angus, camper and dulek in host. we pick rr and win it. THen they host their pick and see that angus is gone and that camper cant play, they know I will play so they pick roper. IF they woulda picked a scheme BEFORE they knew angus had 2 go, and camper couldnt play, they would most likely never pick roper, this im sure of! :) So from now on, i will demand both picks in first host, as i dont like this attitude from certain ppl that always wait 2 the last minute before deciding! :)
Uber I really wished you hadn't said that. At least not saying this part:
Quote from: Uber on November 12, 2010, 03:14 PM
they would most likely never pick roper, this im sure of! :)
You are sure of? Do you watch Sherlock Holmes or House M.D a lot?
This is my log in that game, see how we picked it: (the PMs between me and Csongi are in red, relative stuff to picks in blue, "*Cs0nGi-dP``*" are my PMs to Csongi)
Quote from: 2010-11-11 16.48.03 - DirectIP - - Direct IP + dPxMonkeyIsland.log[2010-11-11 16.48.03] ••• dPxMonkeyIsland is joining a game on DirectIP named "", hosted by Direct IP
[2010-11-11 16.48.05] ••• Successfully joined game. Players are: Cs0nGi-dP``, Dulek`ps, dP`dioZ`nlF, dPxMonkeyIsland
[2010-11-11 16.48.13] *Cs0nGi-dP``* what's our pick?
[2010-11-11 16.48.15] [Cs0nGi-dP``] MI,dioz, what we pick ?
[2010-11-11 16.48.20] [dP`dioZ`nlF] dunno lol
[2010-11-11 16.48.29] *Cs0nGi-dP``* use analyzer
[2010-11-11 16.48.32] ••• Player joined: ps`Camper
[2010-11-11 16.48.34] ••• Player joined: ps`Uber
[2010-11-11 16.48.41] [dP`dioZ`nlF] camper you fool xD
[2010-11-11 16.48.42] <Dulek`ps> logically, if a player joins a clan logically he can't play in past PO games, but only in present
[2010-11-11 16.48.44] [ps`Camper] lol
[2010-11-11 16.48.46] [ps`Camper] stop it
[2010-11-11 16.48.46] <Dulek`ps> and so is here imo
[2010-11-11 16.48.48] *Cs0nGi-dP``* can't minimize
[2010-11-11 16.48.53] [dP`dioZ`nlF] ok viado
[2010-11-11 16.48.56] ••• Player parted or was kicked: ps`Camper
[2010-11-11 16.49.08] <Cs0nGi-dP``> well i guess elite gives us most pints but we cant pick tahta
[2010-11-11 16.49.14] <Cs0nGi-dP``> wxw ? roper ?
[2010-11-11 16.49.20] ••• Player joined: ps`Camper
[2010-11-11 16.49.23] [ps`Camper] my boss
[2010-11-11 16.49.23] [ps`Uber] wtf campito xD
[2010-11-11 16.49.24] [ps`Camper] wait
[2010-11-11 16.49.25] ••• Player parted or was kicked: ps`Camper
[2010-11-11 16.49.27] [ps`Uber] hahaha
[2010-11-11 16.49.35] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xDDDDD
[2010-11-11 16.49.41] *Dulek`ps* that's not a rule, but yes its sportmanship. but in this case, it is a game like football, people get replaced in game
[2010-11-11 16.49.42] [dP`dioZ`nlF] is he playing at work?
[2010-11-11 16.49.42] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xD
[2010-11-11 16.49.45] [ps`Uber] ya.
[2010-11-11 16.49.48] [dP`dioZ`nlF] lmao
[2010-11-11 16.49.51] [ps`Uber] so whats the schem?
[2010-11-11 16.49.53] <Dulek`ps> yes, there's no rule about it, u're right
[2010-11-11 16.49.57] [Cs0nGi-dP``] wait xDDD
[2010-11-11 16.50.02] [Cs0nGi-dP``] MI ANSWER. xD
[2010-11-11 16.50.03] [dP`dioZ`nlF] ask donkeykongi
[2010-11-11 16.50.10] *Dulek`ps* you won the game anyway, but we can open up a topic to see what to do in future
[2010-11-11 16.50.14] [Cs0nGi-dP``] lawl
[2010-11-11 16.50.16] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xD
[2010-11-11 16.50.27] *Cs0nGi-dP``* whatever you are best at xD
[2010-11-11 16.50.36] <Cs0nGi-dP``> lol and who plays ? XDD
[2010-11-11 16.50.48] <Dulek`ps> yes, we could :P
[2010-11-11 16.50.54] <Cs0nGi-dP``> i mean, dioz whould play cuz he didnt rr'D
[2010-11-11 16.50.57] <Cs0nGi-dP``> u or me?
[2010-11-11 16.51.00] *dP`dioZ`nlF* feel like playing or me and csong do?
[2010-11-11 16.51.11] ••• Player joined: ps`Camper
[2010-11-11 16.51.17] [ps`Camper] whac schme :?
[2010-11-11 16.51.19] <dP`dioZ`nlF> idc if you guys want to play i do not care rly
[2010-11-11 16.51.30] *dP`dioZ`nlF* ok
[2010-11-11 16.51.33] [Cs0nGi-dP``] for the name of god,ANSWER XDD
[2010-11-11 16.51.35] *Cs0nGi-dP``* what scheme?
[2010-11-11 16.51.35] [ps`Camper] WATCH SCME
[2010-11-11 16.51.36] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xD
[2010-11-11 16.51.36] <Cs0nGi-dP``> so ?
[2010-11-11 16.51.48] <Cs0nGi-dP``> roper, or wxw one of them
[2010-11-11 16.51.51] [ps`Camper] goshg
[2010-11-11 16.51.52] [ps`Camper] as
[2010-11-11 16.51.53] [ps`Camper] d
[2010-11-11 16.51.53] [ps`Camper] as
[2010-11-11 16.51.53] [ps`Camper] e
[2010-11-11 16.51.54] [ps`Camper] 2
[2010-11-11 16.51.57] [Cs0nGi-dP``] sec.
[2010-11-11 16.51.59] *Cs0nGi-dP``* told you, you pick one!
[2010-11-11 16.52.06] [Cs0nGi-dP``] ok we take roper
[2010-11-11 16.52.06] *Cs0nGi-dP``* both looks the same to me
[2010-11-11 16.52.15] [ps`Uber] camp duli
[2010-11-11 16.52.18] <Cs0nGi-dP``> and who plays ?
[2010-11-11 16.52.23] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xd
[2010-11-11 16.52.24] [ps`Camper] aw
[2010-11-11 16.52.25] *Cs0nGi-dP``* me and you
[2010-11-11 16.52.36] [ps`Camper] Idk if I can play whole game
[2010-11-11 16.52.37] [ps`Camper] play you ube
[2010-11-11 16.52.43] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xDD
[2010-11-11 16.52.57] *dP`dioZ`nlF* still you can play, It's not like I'm better than you
[2010-11-11 16.53.11] [Cs0nGi-dP``] ok,some1 team up ;p
[2010-11-11 16.53.13] [ps`Uber] nah u play?
[2010-11-11 16.53.22] [Dulek`ps] r u in work, Camper?
[2010-11-11 16.53.22] [ps`Camper] bah
[2010-11-11 16.53.25] <dP`dioZ`nlF> well you did play the ttrr i think i could play roper i tought you gonna play some defualt
[2010-11-11 16.53.39] *dP`dioZ`nlF* ok team up
[2010-11-11 16.53.42] [ps`Camper] yes
[2010-11-11 16.53.42] [ps`Camper] :D
[2010-11-11 16.54.05] [ps`Uber] we win
[2010-11-11 16.54.11] [ps`Camper] 4 me?
[2010-11-11 16.54.12] [ps`Camper] :}
[2010-11-11 16.54.13] [ps`Uber] cause im ubersexy in roper
[2010-11-11 16.54.14] [ps`Uber] xD
[2010-11-11 16.54.16] [dP`dioZ`nlF] xDD
[2010-11-11 16.54.18] [Cs0nGi-dP``] LIGHT
[2010-11-11 16.54.22] • Game will emulate 3.6.28.0 due to the following player: Cs0nGi-dP``
The latest released version of Worms Armageddon may be downloaded at http://wa.team17.com.
[2010-11-11 16.54.26] ••• Starting game, recorded as file "User\Games\2010-11-11 16.54.26 [Online] Cs0nGi-dP``, Dulek`ps, dP`dioZ`nlF, @dPxMonkeyIsland, ps`Camper, ps`Uber.WAgame"
As you see I even let DioZ play instead of me despiting the fact that I play better in league games than DioZ or did I edit the log on purpose just to show you were wrong?
Nah, ur not wrong. BUT u are forgetting a fact. Angus is not there!! :) That convo would look much different if he was present as he ws in the first game! :) WHy do u think Csongi says "elite gives most but we cant pick that".??? Cause im there, and he knows me and dulek is a v strong elite team. He looks at players PRESENT as every1 does, at least most players. Now u get my point???
lolz
seriously,there are enough 'fights' on these forums already,let's not create more >:(
u won that rr,we won the roper(not the end of the world)
gg's
hf :)
Indeed. <3 dP.
Now, let's back to the topic? :)
well im not fighting with anyone, and i doubt MI is fighting either, lol! :)
so no need 2 make a drama out of something as harmless as this! :p
omg i cant write anymore, i have the biggest hangover ever,!
brb puke
Honestly, I disagree with you avi.
I mean, back in days when TdC was a lot ttrr clan.I've seen a lot of clan picking ttrr because I had to play it and when one of my friends ttrr showed up they just felt like changing their pick lol.
It was so obvious. Even now I see sometimes people picking ttrr when I'm here and changing when an another tdc come.
Is the goal of the league to do whatever it takes to win 2 players of a clan or showing the true skill of a clan ?
In my opinion it point out something else in this league. Do you value a clan for it's individually or it's global skill level ? The way the league is done is more about individualities in my opinion. The key thing is that the league allow avoiding.
Let's continu with this mind:
Let's say a clan X got 4 members:
2 (A,B) incredible roper but that does not know what is sg.
2 (C,D) incredible default player but that does not know what is rope race.
As a matter of fact we know that, If X clan only rope with (A,B) and only default with (C,D) they will win everything for sure.
Now we got the Y clan with 4 members:
all of them can default and rope pretty decent but they're not the best.
As a matter of fact we know that, If X clan play Y in rope with (A,B) and default with (C,D) they will win everything for sure.
As a matter of fact we also know that if X clan play Y clan in rope or default with (A,C) (A,D) (B,C) (B,D) they will lose for sure.
All player in both clan play the same amount of time WA.
We can do some easy statistic but it's obvious that if they were fair Y clan would get a better global winning streak. Also in my opinion, it's fair to say that Y clan is better than X clan.
Since this league allow avoiding there's no way to avoid them to avoid (wow funny sentence :D).
Which means in the end X clan will get a better winning streak than Y because they avoid Y clan when their team is not on.
The question is, Is that truly how TUS should work ?
zipp i did not read all that, cuz im late for work, n just woke up..
but i can see both sides of the debate... cuz u r playing against the hole clan, not just 2 specific players..
so, i DO see both sides, but there should be a rule in writing, if there is not already....
but let me ask you this... if i picked the scheme (and people often pick depending who is online) and then the game came to draw, and after the draw, the other clan came with totally different members....
am i now allowed to change my pick? or does MY pick, that was predetermined because of their lack of members have to stand, even tho its now against the "best" members?... see what i mean??? i dunno if im even being clear, im tired.. nad g2g work on a saturday! BAHHHH... FML!! peace
Hey avi.
Honestly, I never watch with who I am playing against but with who I am playing with.
For example, when I play with spaaz. I know he loves T17, so we'll pick T17 whoever it is against.
Do you prefer an "easy cheap" win on something your opponent cannot play or a nice tight game where both clan are good at ?
Well... I alwys pick schemes at what im going to enjoy. And get a fair amount of points... I dontmean i ever pick cheap, easy wins... But let me use komo as an example.. Because its absolutely obvious he dominates BNG... If i decide bng gives us fair points.. And its vs lalo and dainub.. We may pick bng.. If it tied ( i know bng cant tie lol.. This is just an example) and then komo came online... Being that it was MY pick.. I would like to have the option to change pick.. If they decide to change player... Do u not agree??? And i hopeno1 comes and says picing schemes when certain players r not online is cheap.. Cuz its not.. Its somthing most everyone does, and i would not consider it cheap... Example: lalo and dain pick rr vs me and shy often... And they even said once they wont be picking rr cuz mablak was online.. And i dont blame them at all... Would be kinda stupid to rr vs mab and shy..
I think its abit unpc. Its like a second round, not a new game.. Just how the first turn should go to the clan that didnt start the round before.