The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues General => Topic started by: MonkeyIsland on October 07, 2010, 06:59 AM
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Here's some ideas that could help TUS Leagues and give us more activity:
TEL (TUS Elite League) came up with elite challenges thread, and seems to be a good replacement for TNL.
TRL (TUS Rotated League) was an idea that always were around.
Making 2 more leagues is not a good idea. So I think this would suit TUS the best:
1. Adding TRL, having a poll each season what scheme people want for the upcoming season. Allowing to have repeated schemes. (So this way Elite will have most of the votes each season?)
2. Removing TNL, adding Intermediate scheme to classic league. (as a refusable or fixed pick)
Discuss!
(When the options become more clear, we will probably run a poll)
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Here's some ideas that could help TUS Leagues and give us more activity:
2. Removing TNL, adding Intermediate scheme to classic league. (as a refusable or fixed pick)
hmm..
Remove TNL - ok but It's hard find good place to normal [clasic or free league]
but in my opinion in clasic will be better becouse more players play clasic :P and maybe some "normal only" players will start play TUS clasic :P [Normal + elite or other] :P
it's only my opinion :P
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My votes:
- remove TNL
- put in ELITE-League only --> TEL.
- replace Intermediate to Free-League..
- wait with TRL-League.
Eliters want something longer than just to be the scheme for one season (like in TRL). There are many of Eliters, activity would be much better than current TNL.
Intermediate-lovers can still play NNNL (ONL) by Clan NNN.
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As far as I remember, rotated leagues never been that active.
I suggest also removing TNL (there's NNNL) and adding TEL.
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Intermediate (hopefully the nnnl version too) should definitely be in the regular league, and since there's nnnl, I don't think it ever really needed its own league here. If people aren't sure about playing it bo1, using cave maps every time works out well for minimizing double kills at the start.
I really have no idea what free league is though, seems kinda superfluous whatever it is. The fewer leagues the better, just an elite league and just an all-round league would work fine. And I wouldn't expect much activity for rotated league, though I do support leagues geared towards individual schemes, because they're very skill-enhancing and competitive. Just that some schemes are quite popular and others aren't, I doubt a RL would be worthwhile on the whole.
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Make Intermediate a fixed pick in tus regular league and create TEL!
EDIT: aww mab beat me to the punch
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I don't want all-round league taken away, not being able to BnG would kill me...
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I don't want all-round league taken away, not being able to BnG would kill me...
But didn't you say... :D
Anyway, I'd go with TEL because as already said, I don't think a rotated league would be very active.
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I don't want all-round league taken away, not being able to BnG would kill me...
But didn't you say... :D
I still play clanners though !
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- remove TNL
- put in ELITE-League only --> TEL.
- replace Intermediate to Free-League..
- wait with TRL-League.
thats exactly my opinion as well.
I dont think there is room for any new scheme in the classic league, because we have 4 rope schemes and 4 defaults, so you need to be good in both to be a good allrounder. If you add another default, roping becomes less important. That's why I'd prefer adding Inter to Free league.
Another reason would be that there are just few allround player that enjoy Intermediate and vice versa. If it would bring half of the NNN people to play allround league, then the situation would be different for sure :D
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- remove TNL
- put in ELITE-League only --> TEL.
- replace Intermediate to Free-League..
- wait with TRL-League.
thats exactly my opinion as well.
I dont think there is room for any new scheme in the classic league, because we have 4 rope schemes and 4 defaults, so you need to be good in both to be a good allrounder. If you add another default, roping becomes less important. That's why I'd prefer adding Inter to Free league.
Another reason would be that there are just few allround player that enjoy Intermediate and vice versa. If it would bring half of the NNN people to play allround league, then the situation would be different for sure :D
we have 5 available roping schemes right now... shoppa, wxw, roper, w2roper, and ttrr... so the balance is 5:4. You can still keep picking roping schemes if you suck at defaults
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Well Random, Shoppa is basically a Hybrid of both roping and default, but i'd class it as mostly default...
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My votes:
- remove TNL
- put in ELITE-League only --> TEL.
- replace Intermediate to Free-League..
- wait with TRL-League.
i agree,
oh and free league is alot of fun, i find myself playing it aswell as classic league. i have nothing against intermediate being in free league.
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Make Intermediate a fixed pick in tus regular league and create TEL!
+1
People used to not know hysteria.. Now it's a fixed pick people did learn it. It's by putting new scheme in fixed pick that the worms experience is growing :)
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well its 4:4 balance now x: don't need intermediate to unbalance the classic league
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@Mablak,
Free league is just covering less popular schemes like Bungee race or Walk for weapons. We're just letting people to have some competition on these schemes as well.
@Intermediate
For many months, when WxW and Shopper had to be reported as same scheme, the balance was 4:3 in favor of defaults, What was wrong about it back then?
I've tried Intermediate on both classic league and free league. The amount of activity was a lot when it was in classic league and its activity almost died when we put it in the free league. Intermediate is much more serious to be in free league. (and not "less popular")
@Elite league
Ok, so far TEL instead of TRL.
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+1 for elite league.
I've never really practiced intermediate, and that's probably because people can't pick it vs me in classic league. I wouldn't mind learning it, but it sounds like there are issues with it. Either using any kind of map and doing bo3 which is too many games just for 1 pick or what mablak said by having bo1 on a cavern but it's only a limited version/taste of intermediate. so bleh, whatever is chosen, not ideal.
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Here's some ideas that could help TUS Leagues and give us more activity:
How about working on the quality of some parts of the site rather then editing the content? That's my opinion...
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How about working on the quality of some parts of the site rather then editing the content? That's my opinion...
i like the part where you're not vague ???
want to explain? examples?
MI just noticed a discussion going on in an elite challenge thread, and so he thought up something to help their elite league idea. your post on the other hand sounds almost insulting with no specifics (thought I'm sure you probably did not mean it, that's just how it sounds).
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TEL sounds cool! But for gods sake, if u add intermediate to the classic league make it a refusable scheme ( tho id prefer it not being in classic)! That scheme requires its own league imo. And i see ppl often ask others for ONL or NNN so i cant really see the "need" for it 2 be added to yet another league, and probably cause alot of mayhem.
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dun worry, it will prolly find its way to free league where we accept it
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Agree, Intermediate can't be played Bo1, even on a cave map like Mablak suggests it'd still depend on luck greatly. It's not suited for the classic league because you have to play it Bo3, which would make a set of games just too long.
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How about working on the quality of some parts of the site rather then editing the content? That's my opinion...
i like the part where you're not vague ???
want to explain? examples?
Ever since this site was created I was telling things that should be changed in my opinion, I won't repeat myself for the 27th time.
Like the menubar, fir instance, there are some parts where if you are on the home page, it shows different links than when you are on another part of the site (for some designs). That is just one example, I could say many things, but as I said, I won't repeat myself.
Sorry if I sound a little bitter. :-X
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Bo1 intermediate really doesn't depend on luck that much, far less than something like t17 or shopper. But as always, it depends on the map, and people who don't play the scheme much tend to pick easier maps without realizing it, which is why I'd suggest caves as a standard (and there's not much problem with variety here, considering people play t17 and elite on only one type of map 99% of the time).
As MI said, I doubt it would be played in free league, since people would probably choose to play nnnl over a side-league here if they had such a hankering. But in the main league it would have more importance, and just like hysteria, people would start picking it more and more.
The main problem is really just new-scheme-phobia, but there's no way to introduce a new scheme without this happening. People are afraid of learning something they're not already good at, but like with hysteria, sometimes this shouldn't be that much of a factor, if a scheme has really become popular on WN and proven its worth in terms of skill.
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One question, how u plan 2 have clanners in this scheme?? Oo
And still, there are more schemes around that could possibly be good league schemes, but when it comes 2 a certain point, there is no use in expanding anymore, at least not for a while. Sometimes incresing schemes will make quality lower,. Im not saying this is the case, but thats my thoughts.
And i dont think we should add a scheme if u cant clanner it good.
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First of all: There isnt that much luck in Shopper if the scheme is good. I can't remember a single shopper that I lost just because of bad luck. But basically thats because the average shopper skill is very low compared to other schemes.
back to the topic:
I don't see any reason to have Intermediate on tus anyway. But if someone does't want to ONL, but likes Inter so much, then he should have the chance to play it for Free Legaue at least.
There was no Hysteria only league or some Hysteria community. So I dont think you can compare it to the introduction of Hysteria to the league.
It's not that I dont like Intermediate, I just think it shouldn't be part of the classic league.
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First of all: There isnt that much luck in Shopper if the scheme is good. I can't remember a single shopper that I lost just because of bad luck. But basically thats because the average shopper skill is very low compared to other schemes.
Of course theres luck in Shopper, doesn't matter how good the scheme is, 1 player will always get better weapons, that, is luck on there part, whether they can use these weapons to the best of their ability is up to them and their experience.
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It is not like intermediate is a new scheme to us... I can bet it was the scheme we were all playing when we first started out... I know I was... just constantly playing comps at intermediate... There is a lot of weapon creativity involved in it, too... more so than t17 I would have to say :O
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First of all: There isnt that much luck in Shopper if the scheme is good. I can't remember a single shopper that I lost just because of bad luck. But basically thats because the average shopper skill is very low compared to other schemes.
back to the topic:
I don't see any reason to have Intermediate on tus anyway. But if someone does't want to ONL, but likes Inter so much, then he should have the chance to play it for Free Legaue at least.
There was no Hysteria only league or some Hysteria community. So I dont think you can compare it to the introduction of Hysteria to the league.
It's not that I dont like Intermediate, I just think it shouldn't be part of the classic league.
Why exactly don't you see any reason to have it? I find it silly that low skill schemes like shopper are part of a league solely because of popularity, when we could add in schemes with much more skill and a more than sustainable popularity level. Inter has the skill level and popularity needed for a league scheme, and adding it would bring more people to the league in time. Just look at all the people who host intermediates with hosting buddy.
And just because inter already has its own league doesn't mean it shouldn't be part of regular leagues. Should we be removing elite from the main league because it's getting its own league?
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You can't argue with Mablak, I don't personally like Intermediate, but I ain't blind to it's skill and popularity, I think it will be more popular than Elite, and a perfect addition to the league, I don't know about clanners though, but definately in singles, just because i've never seen a 2on2 Intermediate, and don't know how they work, but I am sure they can, and do...
+1 for Mablak :)
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dudw im gonna got simte but for me im getting tired of lickass sutfff.. yea--.
be good be youself thats wha i about... noone giv a f@#! about some one that'is new, if he doent lickeass...
cmn lets be a men and respnt if some1 has a good way not cose he has someone special.........
atm, this stinks.. glad im out cose TuUsS stinks with OLDSKOLL STUFF
ps ty for the -1 ::) beer dnt give fucjk!!!
let be MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MEN!!! FOR tjhis comutanty!! STIOP LICKASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BE MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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BUt seriously, u guys want 2 add intermediate 2 increase acitivity cause so many plays it? But do u wanna be a contestant 2 the other "intermediate only" leagues? is that it? Imagine we add it, 50 more players join tus from NNN, they own at intermediate, suck at most other schemes (tus classic league schemes). And then u might say "well they will learn other schemes bla bla". but then we are back 2 the league being at a v v low skill-level, and ppl that like the competetion and being an allrounder will lose the fun. Worst scenario: all the Intermediate only players join the league; pick inter each time, others pick rope/rr bla bla vs them. 1-1 all games. at the end u dont wanna play such a player. Like me, id avoid em cause i really dont like intermediate. We could rather report a 1-1 before the game, so boring. WHY COMPETE WITH OTHER INTERMEDIATE LEAGUES IN THIS MATTER!? Mablak, shyguy and rest that wants it, why dont join/stick 2 Intermediate lleageu and play it there? If its so many playing it, u shouldnt really have a problem finding such matches if u want. I for my own sake, rather not. :) And if 2 players from TUS league really like it. join an intermediate league and play the game thru there. I could see ur points if such leagues/options were missing, but they clearly are not... :)
And its no point in trying 2 make this a debate over luck level in the scheme, no doubt its a scheme which require alot of skill, BUT imo its for those who are specially interested in it. And as i said many times; u DO HAVE plenty o options 2 get those competetive Intermediate games played, in real matters like bo3/bo5 which it SHOULD be played. :)
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dudw im gonna got simte but for me im getting tired of lickass sutfff.. yea--.
be good be youself thats wha i about... noone giv a f@#! about some one that'is new, if he doent lickeass...
cmn lets be a men and respnt if some1 has a good way not cose he has someone special.........
atm, this stinks.. glad im out cose TuUsS stinks with OLDSKOLL STUFF
ps ty for the -1 ::) beer dnt give fucjk!!!
let be MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MEN!!! FOR tjhis comutanty!! STIOP LICKASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BE MEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's Godmax and tobi time!! xDDDDDDDDDDD
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Mablak, shyguy and rest that wants it, why dont join/stick 2 Intermediate lleageu and play it there?
because I don't really care to play in a league with just inter.. i think adding it to tus classic would just create more variation to the scheme selections
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Haha man, still, the times u do feel like it, u could just ask for a NNN insteead of a tus? not much difference. We have 9 or 10 (can be arsed 2 count atm) schemes 2 pick from in the classic league, thats plenty of options imo! :)
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The more popular and competitive schemes you have in an overall league, the more overall it REALLY is...
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BUt seriously, u guys want 2 add intermediate 2 increase acitivity cause so many plays it? But do u wanna be a contestant 2 the other "intermediate only" leagues? is that it? Imagine we add it, 50 more players join tus from NNN, they own at intermediate, suck at most other schemes (tus classic league schemes). And then u might say "well they will learn other schemes bla bla". but then we are back 2 the league being at a v v low skill-level, and ppl that like the competetion and being an allrounder will lose the fun. Worst scenario: all the Intermediate only players join the league; pick inter each time, others pick rope/rr bla bla vs them. 1-1 all games. at the end u dont wanna play such a player. Like me, id avoid em cause i really dont like intermediate. We could rather report a 1-1 before the game, so boring. WHY COMPETE WITH OTHER INTERMEDIATE LEAGUES IN THIS MATTER!? Mablak, shyguy and rest that wants it, why dont join/stick 2 Intermediate lleageu and play it there? If its so many playing it, u shouldnt really have a problem finding such matches if u want. I for my own sake, rather not. :) And if 2 players from TUS league really like it. join an intermediate league and play the game thru there. I could see ur points if such leagues/options were missing, but they clearly are not... :)
And its no point in trying 2 make this a debate over luck level in the scheme, no doubt its a scheme which require alot of skill, BUT imo its for those who are specially interested in it. And as i said many times; u DO HAVE plenty o options 2 get those competetive Intermediate games played, in real matters like bo3/bo5 which it SHOULD be played. :)
Okay. So once there's an elite league, why don't we just remove elite from the regular league?
I can see your point about too many schemes, but not having a worthy scheme in an all-round league makes the league less deserving of the status 'all-round'. We obviously can't include every scheme ever, but intermediate has a lot of things other schemes don't, such as a high skill level with all the basic weapons, rope knocking skills, jetpack skills, etc, and it really helps round out the definition of an all-rounder.
As time goes on though, the number of league-worthy schemes simply has to increase, the league system should simply account for this if it ever becomes a problem. For example, it would make sense if you only had to be an all-rounder by having some skill in each 'class', where a class contains one or more schemes, so just being good at one scheme per class would be enough. Thus people could choose not to play certain schemes, and only gain skill in one or two schemes per class, and they could still be considered all-rounders without having to learn every scheme ever.
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But whats this urge 2 by all means add it to the TUS CLASSIC LEAGUE!? Guys, u seem 2 enjoy intermediate alot, do u really want/need 2 play it vs alot of ppl which doesnt?? When u have ALOT of other places 2 play that scheme, in a competetive matter. And ur comparing with the elite league ,and shall we remove elite from classic was poor Mab, and it doesnt look like u 2 discuss like that :p For me i dont need the elite league, infact, with elite being in classic, and the "elite challenge" thing where ppl challenge eachother, there really isnt that of a big need of a Elite only-league. But as it DONT exist it may be a good alternative for those who really want it. Intermediate only leagues DOES exist.
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I wasn't saying anything about the elite league existing or not, it was hypothetical. For a more concrete example, no one would suggest removing BnG from the main league just because a2b is around; the scheme is kept for its skill level and uniqueness.
Speaking of which, compared to BnG, the enjoyment factor of intermediate should hardly be an issue, BnG has really become unpopular in main leagues. But in the case of intermediate, I highly doubt many people in TUS have played it enough to deem it fun or boring, most people who don't want to play it simply don't want to get good at something new, as you'd expect for any new league scheme, but that can change with time.
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But whats this urge 2 by all means add it to the TUS CLASSIC LEAGUE!? Guys, u seem 2 enjoy intermediate alot, do u really want/need 2 play it vs alot of ppl which doesnt??
How can you be such a hypocrit? Practically EVERY single player in TuS has schemes they don't enjoy playing, that other people DO enjoy playing, it's the reason it's all-round.
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It's Godmax and tobi time!! xDDDDDDDDDDD
+1000 XDDD
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They wont be many people from NNNL joining and playing TUS single just because Intermediate is available. Intermediate-only-players like Joschi, Kayz, Koras, chuvash, Fantomas, jule, Antares, Viks, FaD, Dario etc. wont playing single TUS coz they always have to play an oppenents pick, which scheme they dont know / like for 90%. And Intermediate players swear at modus bo3 or higher coz of balancing some luck / bad luck. But we cant play Intermediate ina bo3, would take to much time just for one single pick. So they dont enjoying a Intermediate played by only bo1 - even with cave it is not good balanced, but better than on isle, tho.
Some guys from b2b playing single TUS too, but many of those b2b-members u dont really see at TUS (Wormfood, KRD, Ramone, surgeon, M3ntal, skime, Krezo, lacoste, Prankster etc.). By putting Intermediate to classic league wont help much to get more acitivity. So I just vote, like before, to put Intermediate into Free-League.
Current schemes are perfect for Classic League. No need to change there smth. :)
btw, NNNl-Intermediate-Scheme should be used in TUS too, doesnt matter which league type.
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They wont be many people from NNNL joining and playing TUS single just because Intermediate is available. Intermediate-only-players like Joschi, Kayz, Koras, chuvash, Fantomas, jule, Antares, Viks, FaD, Dario etc. wont playing single TUS coz they always have to play an oppenents pick, which scheme they dont know / like for 90%. And Intermediate players swear at modus bo3 or higher coz of balancing some luck / bad luck. But we cant play Intermediate ina bo3, would take to much time just for one single pick. So they dont enjoying a Intermediate played by only bo1 - even with cave it is not good balanced, but better than on isle, tho.
Some guys from b2b playing single TUS too, but many of those b2b-members u dont really see at TUS (Wormfood, KRD, Ramone, surgeon, M3ntal, skime, Krezo, lacoste, Prankster etc.). By putting Intermediate to classic league wont help much to get more acitivity. So I just vote, like before, to put Intermediate into Free-League.
Current schemes are perfect for Classic League. No need to change there smth. :)
Krezo and Prankster are not in b2b.
And the NNN players, most of them CAN play more than 1 scheme well.
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They wont be many people from NNNL joining and playing TUS single just because Intermediate is available. Intermediate-only-players like Joschi, Kayz, Koras, chuvash, Fantomas, jule, Antares, Viks, FaD, Dario etc. wont playing single TUS coz they always have to play an oppenents pick, which scheme they dont know / like for 90%. And Intermediate players swear at modus bo3 or higher coz of balancing some luck / bad luck. But we cant play Intermediate ina bo3, would take to much time just for one single pick. So they dont enjoying a Intermediate played by only bo1 - even with cave it is not good balanced, but better than on isle, tho.
Some guys from b2b playing single TUS too, but many of those b2b-members u dont really see at TUS (Wormfood, KRD, Ramone, surgeon, M3ntal, skime, Krezo, lacoste, Prankster etc.). By putting Intermediate to classic league wont help much to get more acitivity. So I just vote, like before, to put Intermediate into Free-League.
Current schemes are perfect for Classic League. No need to change there smth. :)
Krezo and Prankster are not in b2b.
And the NNN players, most of them CAN play more than 1 scheme well.
Ye, sorry. For me it doesnt make a big different if a2b or b2b. At least they played a2b-league and arent's active at TUS. ;)
Sure a lot of NNN-Guys can play other schemes too. But tbh, I dont calculate with them.
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Um, there had been many discussions about inter being a classic league scheme in the past. If you guys don't remember, it had been removed from the classic league schemes because it was too unpopular/people didn't want to play it. So i don't think bringing it back would be a good idea... not for the people that like inter nor for the people that don't like it, you know that it will end up in nothing but trouble.
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Well komo, sure ppl have schemes they like and dont like. I was just saying, in TUS classic league u have 9-10 schemes u have 2 play, why add another one thats clearly not gonna increase acitivity, not gonna be popular ( as chakk mentioned intermediate was tried in classic league before) and not is wished for in classic league? And this scheme in particular has such big skill-difference since its almost never been a common scheme in classic league, its been around for ages I know, but ppl always had their own league for it. And u cant compare it with f.ex hyst, cause when hyst came, it was a NEW scheme, new for everyone, we all started at scratch on that one. Nvm, we can agree on disagreeing :)
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I wouldn't mind having Inter in the classic league. The scheme is classic, no doubt, but it just doesn't fit in because you really have to Bo3 it, which takes way too long in comparision to other classic schemes. The scheme is better off with its own league, which is NNNL/ONL.
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X: im amazed how much that sudden death all worms to 1 hp reduction sux, u get napalm gg'd after a good lead
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haha Husk! :D <3
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We could have playoffs for every schemes. This way the best players in each scheme would play with others pros in playoffs. Would be a good reason to have ranks of all schemes separated.
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doesn't sound so bad, those who wudn't get to season playoffs might be able to give it a try at season scheme specific playoffs :P if they had a good enough season to catch many points in a scheme
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Well , idea is not 2 bad, but wont work well im afraid. As this is a ladder league, and ratings in each scheme affects much our picks. Me f.ex, I have nr 1 rank in overall t 17, so obviously i almost never pick it, cause often its 7-10 points for win and 70 for loss. The "few" times i play the scheme is when others pick it vs me. So most likely f.ex me would never be qualified for t 17 PO, and u have the same scenario for other players in other schemes! :)
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yep, but thanks to ur overall rating and good seasonal points ud still be able to enjoy the all-round playoffs
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True story! :) But then again, we have/have had troubles getting playoffs done, Imagine getting it done when 4-8 players / clans gonna get Playoffs in allround/scheme playooffs done. Oh my what a chaos xD
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haha true :DDD
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You'll have to choose if you want to dedicate to a specific scheme or to the general league, it's up to each one. Then we dont need to create leagues to any schemes.
By the way, TEL is the best tus idea :)