It's impossible for me or any other player who isn't as skilled on the ropes to win a playoff.
We have two rope races, ttrr and bigrr.
The playoff already starts 2-0 negative.
Roper, Wxw, Shopper... even if you are not that skilled, you still have a chance of winning if the game favors you or the opponent makes a mistake on a turn.
In my opinion, there should only be one rope run mode, you can choose bigrr or ttrr, but only one choice.
Am I dramatizing too much? I'm regretting it because I'll never win a playoff in this league format.
i think keeping ttrr, wxw, roper and shopper its fine like the classic league times
my real question its about big rr, i back this year and never see that schemme becaming so popular in league xD
Ropers have similar disadvantage when they don't get to pick first. Someone could only pick artillery schemes (BnG, Hysteria and Aerial) or strategic schemes (Elite, Intermediate and Team17).
I agree though that you should be required to win different type of schemes in a playoff series. I've suggested before that you could only pick:
2 of BnG, Hysteria, Aerial
2 of Elite, Intermediate, Team17, Shopper
2 of TTRR, Roper, WxW, Big RR
This way you'd need to win 2 x artillery and 1 x strategic, for example. This should also make playoff series more enjoyable to watch. More variation and closer series.
Quote from: Senator on July 26, 2024, 10:03 AMRopers have similar disadvantage when they don't get to pick first. Someone could only pick artillery schemes (BnG, Hysteria and Aerial) or strategic schemes (Elite, Intermediate and Team17).
yup. I often get frustrated when default players go elite+inter+team17 against ropers.
so Senator's suggestion is appreciated
Quote from: Senator on July 26, 2024, 10:03 AMRopers have similar disadvantage when they don't get to pick first. Someone could only pick artillery schemes (BnG, Hysteria and Aerial) or strategic schemes (Elite, Intermediate and Team17).
I agree though that you should be required to win different type of schemes in a playoff series. I've suggested before that you could only pick:
2 of BnG, Hysteria, Aerial
2 of Elite, Intermediate, Team17, Shopper
2 of TTRR, Roper, WxW, Big RR
This way you'd need to win 2 x artillery and 1 x strategic, for example. This should also make playoff series more enjoyable to watch. More variation and closer series.
Yes and no...
Even if you are an expert in land-only schemes, it is an advantage, but not a certainty.
Different from a TTRR or BIGRR. Which is a 100% sure win.
Most specialist rope players who play in the league are good/average or even great in ground schemes.
One suggestion is to play ALL schemes, but each player can ban one or two schemes each.
That would make it more fair.
You definitely have a point there, Camper.
I had a similar idea like Senator - maybe in a different way. I've seen it in Counter Strike matchmaking. At start of the game each team can ban a map. So if this is beeing transfered to WA each player could ban 2 schemes at start. That adds even more tactic and this way you can just ban your supposed weakest scheme or opponents strongest scheme etc. Banning the schemes should be done in turns ofc. First picker gets first choice to ban.
Overall 11 schemes, 4 gets banned (2 bans for each player), 7 remaining. This way, in Bo5, the amount of schemes will be reduced and everyone can respresent their preferences. It may lead to strongest schemes of both getting banned, but then you have more competition at playing the leftover schemes.
You will have to have a wider range of skill to pass good players, that obviously deserve to be at PO, and definitely makes the winner the best allrounder (of a season).
Don't forget Tower Race.
As usual I'm here to point out how incredibly ridiculous it is that it shares the same scheme file and standings as Big RR.
Though yeah, there are the 3 types of schemes:
Artillery - BnG, Hysteria, Aerial
Physical - Roper, TTRR, Big RR/Tower Race, WxW
Strategic - Shopper, Team17, Elite, Intermediate
It's actually pretty balanced, even more balanced if we add Grenade Wars.
Quote from: style on July 26, 2024, 11:14 AMYou definitely have a point there, Camper.
I had a similar idea like Senator - maybe in a different way. I've seen it in Counter Strike matchmaking. At start of the game each team can ban a map. So if this is beeing transfered to WA each player could ban 2 schemes at start. That adds even more tactic and this way you can just ban your supposed weakest scheme or opponents strongest scheme etc. Banning the schemes should be done in turns ofc. First picker gets first choice to ban.
Overall 11 schemes, 4 gets banned (2 bans for each player), 7 remaining. This way, in Bo5, the amount of schemes will be reduced and everyone can respresent their preferences. It may lead to strongest schemes of both getting banned, but then you have more competition at playing the leftover schemes.
You will have to have a wider range of skill to pass good players, that obviously deserve to be at PO, and definitely makes the winner the best allrounder (of a season).
this could be interesting in PO games, i play all schemmes but my tops are roper and hysteria, i usually dont like to pick roper or wxw against only land players and i try to pick some hyst or even shopper
wasn't the league split into ground and roping schemes already?!
I agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.
I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.
There are definitely too many rope schemes; I think worms in general should be geared towards more strategic or ground-based schemes, which is a bit more in line with what new players would want out of a worms game. And yeah I would be another person who can barely play Big RR due to my monitor not being big enough and too much screenlag. It's probably not a problem for most people, but worth noting.
Are people still that attached to roper? To me it feels like the crate dependence has always been too much of a problem. WxW feels like it 'could' be a replacement for roper too, you could create roper-like maps with walls to touch.
Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.
I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.
didnt know this, i play this game in a small notebook xDDD, thats why i see many players so fast in this scheme
Quote from: Mablak on July 27, 2024, 01:54 AMAre people still that attached to roper? To me it feels like the crate dependence has always been too much of a problem. WxW feels like it 'could' be a replacement for roper too, you could create roper-like maps with walls to touch.
yep, for me Roper still one of my favourites schemes of all time, even if sometimes i got really unlucky with crates xD, but i really enjoy Roper clanner matches for example
Quote from: style on July 26, 2024, 11:14 AMI had a similar idea like Senator - maybe in a different way. I've seen it in Counter Strike matchmaking. At start of the game each team can ban a map. So if this is beeing transfered to WA each player could ban 2 schemes at start. That adds even more tactic and this way you can just ban your supposed weakest scheme or opponents strongest scheme etc. Banning the schemes should be done in turns ofc. First picker gets first choice to ban.
Overall 11 schemes, 4 gets banned (2 bans for each player), 7 remaining. This way, in Bo5, the amount of schemes will be reduced and everyone can respresent their preferences. It may lead to strongest schemes of both getting banned, but then you have more competition at playing the leftover schemes.
I've thought about this too but the problem is that schemes are not like maps. Some schemes have less luck involved than the others so I believe certain schemes would always get banned (TTRR and BnG probably unless the players are equally skilled).
Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.
I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.
I mean, I agree with you but it's also just tough luck, this would mean that taking Big RR out gives those without "hardware" to play it an advantage. Which is essentially unfair as Big RR is the most popular roping scheme and has been for a while now.
Quote from: Senator on July 27, 2024, 09:03 AMI've thought about this too but the problem is that schemes are not like maps. Some schemes have less luck involved than the others so I believe certain schemes would always get banned (TTRR and BnG probably unless the players are equally skilled).
I don't get your point about some schemes having less luck involved here. What exactly do you mean?
By having the possibility to ban schemes you can simply avoid to get asskicked in a scheme you either dislike or know that your opponent is very strong in it. The playing is getting balanced and makes it more competitive in other schemes.
If there is one excellent roper (favorite schemes: rr and roper) and one excellent default player (favorite schemes: elite and t17) it puts the focus on the remaining schemes where probably both have to throw onself into. In WxW or Hysteria there would only be little distinctions at the result and games could get little more even, imo since both are either struggeling the same or having similar skill.
Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.
I see a little advantage for those players with larger screens too for the stated reasons.
Quote from: TheKomodo on July 27, 2024, 11:05 AMQuote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 01:17 AMI agree 100%. In addition, I'm against Big RR in the league because this scheme benefits those who have better hardware, a larger monitor that makes it possible to see the path of the map with a visual advantage, while the other maps you can see with most monitors. In fact, it even becomes a visual disadvantage to use a higher resolution in these schemes.
I can't use higher resolutions (1080p and higher), and if I force it, it breaks the game screen.
I mean, I agree with you but it's also just tough luck, this would mean that taking Big RR out gives those without "hardware" to play it an advantage. Which is essentially unfair as Big RR is the most popular roping scheme and has been for a while now.
Though luck, why?
Well - if I look onto a case where 2 similar ropers play big rr and the one is having a bigger screen, which defo makes it easier to play, is brutal unfair. Despite the popularity we should not forget that it's the PO where games shouldn't be decided by such aspects.
Quote from: Mablak on July 27, 2024, 01:54 AMAre people still that attached to roper? To me it feels like the crate dependence has always been too much of a problem. WxW feels like it 'could' be a replacement for roper too, you could create roper-like maps with walls to touch.
That wall-idea would prolly make it a little more even and put focus on skill, yes - interesting idea. To me it also feels like that. Crate dependence often is game-deciding unfortunately from my view..
However - I think this whole topic can be discussed a lot and there will always be disagreements. If we decide to adjust on one little screw, we prolly have to adjust elswhere too.
Quote from: style on July 27, 2024, 04:34 PMThough luck, why?
Well - if I look onto a case where 2 similar ropers play big rr and the one is having a bigger screen, which defo makes it easier to play, is brutal unfair. Despite the popularity we should not forget that it's the PO where games shouldn't be decided by such aspects.
So we're allowed to buy better PC's, better keyboards, better mice, but we're not allowed to buy bigger screens for some reason?
My monitor is only 27" and I can play Big RR just fine.
The truth, from my perspective, is that it's a scheme you simply either don't enjoy, or cannot be bothered spending the time to get good at. Just the same as I don't want to ever play Intermediate or Team17, I'd just give out free wins because life is too short to do things you don't enjoy.
I like the idea of rejecting one scheme :)
In my opion, there could be two gameplay league styles:
1) Players pick the schemes they want to play, from a determined list/pool of accepted schemes. They ban schemes, although, schemes like Team17 wouldn't be banned, because in general even the less skilled players have a real chance of winning. While in Intermediate and Rope Race, these schemes would be banned frequently. Not sure if this is the ideal proposal, but it could be interesting.
2) Scheme-specific leagues for any schemes. Each scheme has its own league, and players ban maps in schemes that the map matter (custom maps). Players ban Special Weapons in Intermediate. In Hysteria I don't know what could be banned, maybe nothing. I think each scheme having its own league would be the ideal proposal, this way there's only complaining about maps, special weapons, and variation scheme files. Everybody play the scheme they want this way, all good players on a scheme would play against the good players of that scheme. A newbie would suffer joining a new scheme league, many addicted pros in each league. Underground schemes could be played on their own league.
Both ideas could exist together, depending on the league mode the players want to play.
Quote from: TheKomodo on July 27, 2024, 05:58 PMQuote from: style on July 27, 2024, 04:34 PMThough luck, why?
Well - if I look onto a case where 2 similar ropers play big rr and the one is having a bigger screen, which defo makes it easier to play, is brutal unfair. Despite the popularity we should not forget that it's the PO where games shouldn't be decided by such aspects.
So we're allowed to buy better PC's, better keyboards, better mice, but we're not allowed to buy bigger screens for some reason?
My monitor is only 27" and I can play Big RR just fine.
The truth, from my perspective, is that it's a scheme you simply either don't enjoy, or cannot be bothered spending the time to get good at. Just the same as I don't want to ever play Intermediate or Team17, I'd just give out free wins because life is too short to do things you don't enjoy.
Contradicting what you said, I love big rr but not this from the current league, I like the LDET version.. I made several maps, but I recognize that I can't play at the same level as other players because I don't have/won't buy a bigger monitor just to play rr lol.
There's no reason to make things difficult, big rr is the only scheme that is an exception to the rule, all the other schemes in the league use the native size and are backed by the rule to demand a standard size map if the opponent chooses a large map.
Also I could say the same thing using your perspective but with the reverse argument:
How can someone force themselves to get good/enjoy something if the person is already starting at a disadvantage? There's no point in bothering, I can relate.
Hopefully we get to remove this scheme from league already or at least get to ban schemes, it's something.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on July 27, 2024, 06:01 PMI like the idea of rejecting one scheme :)
Give it a try next season and we'll collect experience about how it's going. We can still abstain from it if it sux.
You guys being serious now? It's not really advantage. Like everything, it takes time to get used to 1920x1080. Lot of people here tried and gave up. I can assure you. Took me few weeks, if not months as well.. Because everything feels slower and you're really at disadvantage in most of the other schemes, because someone on lower resolution will see pixels on the map lot easier than us who play at full hd. Only "advantage" of this resolution is that you'll see more of the map when flying down with worm in a big rr labyrinth. And you seriously proposing to remove this scheme because you don't wanna try bigger resolution? Or even worse reason - you don't wanna buy a monitor?
Even if you're that cheap that you won't buy a full hd monitor in 2024. (pretty sure you can get one for the price of 2 beers), you can get 1920x1080 resolution even on the smaller res monitors. With nvidia control panel or, probably, lot more free programs.
Can't believe these posts even exists.
Basically yeah what Sensei said...
WIth the addition I play different schemes with different keyboards and resolutions.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on July 27, 2024, 06:01 PMI like the idea of rejecting one scheme :)
Yes, banning one or two schemes each will allow for greater balancing, as Stylez said.
In my opinion, this will increase the adherence and interest of less skilled players in playing leagues.
I could win a series vs anyone picking hyst - bng - aerial, just saying.
There should be one ban 100%, it's allround league, not specialist league. In addition, my series vs blitz are a bit boring at start because he always picks ttrr and I lose, then I pick aerial and always win. Anticlimax, would be better series if one scheme was banned. We recently played a series and blitz decided not to pick ttrr, I decided not to pick aerial, and it was a better series because of it.
I have tried playing at 1080p and get constant screenlag, my computer is also pretty decent, i7 processor and a GEForce graphics card. Probably not many people have this problem, but yeah it's there.
Quote from: style on July 27, 2024, 04:34 PMI don't get your point about some schemes having less luck involved here. What exactly do you mean?
If you are the worse roper, you will likely ban TTRR rather than Roper because in Roper you can get lucky with crates, right? So I think most of the time one of the players will ban TTRR.
Yeah man, you are god damn right, ofcourse everyone shares the same reality and conditions.
I really hope you are trolling or using exagerated hyperbole there..
But If you are serious I bet you had a boner indirectly calling others poor saying that you make enough money to equate such a purchase with buying 2 beers, rofl.
Anyway, I was mostly venting when I proposed to remove it, it's not an issue right now, the amount of times it's picked can be considered negligible so I couldn't care less.
Let's focus on the banning ideas.
The whole idea of necessity to change the resolution just to fit a SINGLE scheme is just ridiculous. We're basically benefiting the exception and not the rule. Sorry for double post and not quoting.
Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 10:56 PMThe whole idea of necessity to change the resolution just to fit a SINGLE scheme is just ridiculous. We're basically benefiting the exception and not the rule. Sorry for double post and not quoting.
We are free to play however we want, why wouldn't anyone who takes the game seriously not take advantage of all the tools at our disposal?
I need lower resolution so everything looks bigger in ground schemes like BnG & Elite, it helps a lot, same with Aerial, Hysteria, and Grenade Wars.
I use different keyboards for different schemes as well, Wooting 60HE for TTRR, Big RR and Wascar, Keychron for WxW and Roper. Corsair K65 Vengeance for BnG and other ground schemes.
You can't just make rules up because some people cannot afford better equipment, that's also one reason why I've been doing prize money is to help those people perhaps make some money towards these things
It might be a good idea to be able to ban schemes, I remember playing in a cup with a similar banning mechanism (https://www.tus-wa.com/cups/cup-858/). It worked nicely.
Also, I would like to make an additional proposal for the future TUS 3.0 update that includes the new league system. According to MI, there will be one big league in the new system, and all schemes, allround and free, will be part of that league. I don't know how the playoffs will work in this new system, but in order to have a PO system similar to Allround POs instead of a PO with more than 30 schemes to choose from, we can do the following:
- Only the 7 most popular schemes of the season will be used in the PO. If a season takes 60 days, the most played 7 schemes from those 60 days should be used in the PO. I hated the elitism behind the Classic schemes. If a non-Classic scheme, such as Grenade Wars let's say, is popular enough to make it to the Top 7, it should be part of the PO instead of a less active Classic scheme that didn't make it.
- For every PO match, the players ban one scheme each and play their match with the remaining 5 schemes as Bo5.
- If you think that this system can lead to certain disadvantages (for example, if there are more than three rope schemes in the Top 7, this can be a big disadvantage for non-ropers), then you can divide the schemes into three groups (Artillery, Physical, Strategic, for example, just like Komo suggested) and each season the three most popular schemes from these three groups are selected (nine schemes in total) and players ban two schemes each in POs (9-[2+2]=5, so you will have 5 schemes for Bo5 games).
oh yea, my cup lol
the idea of banning a scheme came from the pick/ban system from osu! tournaments and pro counter-strike matches, where banning 1-2 maps means nobody can pick it in a match, meaning some research needs to be done on the opponent (or yourself) to be confident on what to ban
Or, play every single scheme and see who wins the most since it's supposed to be ALLROUND right?
not sure if "Allround" is a good name for this league xd
Quote from: h3oCharles on July 28, 2024, 11:32 AMnot sure if "Allround" is a good name for this league xd
I was literally thinking the same thing... It would only be actual allround if it included all the TFL schemes as well as every other league.
I'd call the combination of every league "Allround", and what we call allround now should be called Classic again or even better "Authentic" because it consists of the most classic/authentic schemes, authentic meaning tried and tested and you can rely on it's authenticity.
These players that can win "allround" are actually not that difficult to beat in most other schemes, of course only because they haven't practised them yet lol.
Great TFL players would whoop top players in the main league in TFL. Barman was probably one of the best at both TAL and TFL.
btw, why tus league classic changes to allround?
I dont even like inter being added as scheme with this bo3 shit.. people lag out etc takes ages
Quote from: Kaleu on July 27, 2024, 10:53 PMI really hope you are trolling or using exagerated hyperbole there..
But If you are serious I bet you had a boner indirectly calling others poor saying that you make enough money to equate such a purchase with buying 2 beers, rofl.
It's not about being poor or rich. It's about sacrificing a portion of a 1 day salary to buy a decent monitor for a game you poured thousands of hours into. I just find it silly that healthy grown up "can't" afford something like this. Second hand full hd monitor.. Yeah, I'm not exaggerating. There's probably people getting rid of them for free on some facebook market place in your area.
Anyway, aside the whole buying/not buying better monitor thing - it's like I make a post about banning Inter scheme because some people will surely have advantage playing it on 1024x768, while I'm using 1920x1080. Wouldn't you find that laughable?
Quote from: Mablak on July 27, 2024, 10:35 PMI have tried playing at 1080p and get constant screenlag, my computer is also pretty decent, i7 processor and a GEForce graphics card. Probably not many people have this problem, but yeah it's there.
Hmm, check your advanced settings. First thing I did when installing a game was to disable both vsyncs.
That was to get rid of an input lag while roping, jetting etc. Played with screen tearings for a long time, because of a 60hz refresh rate on my monitor (and the fact it was 20" monitor with a resolution of 1366x768, which I changed in nvidia control panel to get forced 1920x1080 in W:A)
It was afwul in so many ways, but didn't complain too much since I wanted to get used to Full HD resolution.
Few years back bought a 24", full hd, 144 hz monitor and it was a game changer. Couldn't believe 60 vs 144 is that much of a difference. We talked about this recently, you should get yourself one.
They're going quite cheap nowadays, compared to before. Probably can get one for 100$ and with a better IPS panel (mine is TN). Will never go back to 60hz again. Can't stand even moving mouse cursor on it, let alone play anything fast-paced.
Nah man at this point I just assumed you're being arrogant or trolling/baiting, there's no way that a "healthy grown up adult" can be that ignorant about currency.
The currency is not the same, the minimum wage in Brazil is low and I make below the minimum like millions of other brazilians. I just made a quick search and the cheapest decent full hd monitor costs around 65-70% of the mininum wage salary.
Here in Brazil we have the culture of spliting the purchase in credit card as much as we can.. endless debts to survive.
I know that you have no obligation to know my financial situation or that of my country, but before you continue to insist on measuring the reality of the world with your own metric, I warned you that we didn't share the same reality.
Anyway, I'm done with this subject.
QuoteAnyway, aside the whole buying/not buying better monitor thing - it's like I make a post about banning Inter scheme because some people will surely have advantage playing it on 1024x768, while I'm using 1920x1080. Wouldn't you find that laughable?
Yes I would.
But this argument doesn't make any sense because you can switch back to any lower resolution at any time, unlike someone with a smaller monitor who can't use a higher resolution. It's not as if you're being hardware forced to use your monitor's native resolution, you are just choosing to do it...
My point is, this scheme is the only one in the entire classic league that benefits someone solely because they have a better hardware, but not only that, it happens because by default the maps used go beyond the native map size initially established by the game (1920x696), we are going against the main patterns of the game and rules that is fundamental to other all round schemes, big rr/tower is just unnatural to be placed there, all other schemes you can demand default map size by rule.
Btw I think this is the longest post I have ever written here :D
I agree with Kaleu regarding Sensei's comment about buying a new monitor.
There are players in this community that are Gig Workers (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gig_worker) on countries that the economy is not going so well. Think in Argentina now just to say an example. There are players that indeed cannot afford so much, although I believe that just to have a computer, internet, and free time to play WA most people here are medium class or at least have a decent monetary condition to live.
Even if a monitor is cheap and most people can buy one here in this community, people shouldn't have to buy a new monitor just because of a scheme.
Hopefully 3.9 will end this problem with zooming in WA, what is very likely to happen after CyberShadow's interview.
Well, sorry guys. Didn't mean to sound rude and surely didn't mean to troll anyone about their will to work/ability to earn money. Mea culpa! Really was unaware of situation in Brazil being that bad. Will not comment on this anymore.
Quote from: Kaleu on July 29, 2024, 05:15 AMMy point is, this scheme is the only one in the entire classic league that benefits someone solely because they have a better hardware
That is not true.
Better keyboards = better roping, better notching which is required for almost all schemes. To notch the worm into positions for speedrunners, and dyna/mine hats etc.
In fact the only reason I can afford stuff is because I don't have children yet.
There are so many other schemes and reasons NOT to rule out just because some people cannot afford it. Even people buying good chairs to sit at their computer.
Sure, I wish you guys would make more money, but I'm sure if you saved up for an entire year you could afford a good monitor.
To put it simply, it's not ideal to ban a scheme entirely on the basis some countries are poorer than others. This is competition remember, not funners. If you take part in serious competition you yourself have to accept you might need better hardware.
Big RR is the most popular roping scheme right now, to not include it is pretty selfish not to mention just plain weird. I can only hope you get a promotion or something to make more money.
If you ban Big RR then you gotta ban other schemes too because I have the option of using different hardware for different schemes. To remove Big RR completely would be a tragic loss for many.
To say for one screen though is ridiculous, there's Grenade Wars as well, as there are many.
Quote from: Sensei on July 28, 2024, 09:53 PMIt's not about being poor or rich. It's about sacrificing a portion of a 1 day salary to buy a decent monitor for a game you poured thousands of hours into. I just find it silly that healthy grown up "can't" afford something like this. Second hand full hd monitor.. Yeah, I'm not exaggerating. There's probably people getting rid of them for free on some facebook market place in your area.
bro have you seen the ludicrous inflation levels in brazil?!