The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues General => Topic started by: TheKomodo on February 12, 2024, 08:56 PM
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More explanation at end for those who want more information!
I'm sorry the post is a bit of a mess but hope you find it useful or exciting!
TL;DR 1st
MonkeyIsland has approved a new League idea :-\
£100 prize pool every Season, every Season is exactly 2 months long.
If successful, prize pool will likely grow over time with greater interest, income from Twitch streams and funding from other people who want to support the cause!
3 schemes each Season, based on the 3 different types of gameplay starting with:
Artillery:
Grenade Wars
Physical:
Big RR
Strategic:
Elite
Playoffs:
Playoffs will be 4 players or 8 players, depending how many make the cut. More players = bigger PO.
In Playoff matches ALL 3 schemes will be played, regardless if you are already 2:0 ahead!
Scores will either be 3:0 or 2:1 in Playoffs.
Think of it as good practise and an opportunity to learn against the best there is!
Streaming:
I do apologize if it upsets anyone!
However it is mandatory that the Playoffs are streamed live!
It will mostly be the CWA channel - https://www.twitch.tv/WormsArmageddonCWA
However, there will be other streamers also!
Prizes:
1st - £75
2nd - £25
1st Season will begin on 1st of March 2024 - So start practising the 3 schemes!
Seasonal Scheme Changes:
The schemes will change each Season, and this part is still under development.
It will always be 1 scheme from each category of Artillery/Physical/Strategic.
So we could have Seasons like:
Aerial / Jetpack Race / Kaos
BnG(a2b rules) / Darts / Intermediate
Boom Race / Super Sheep Race / Abnormal
Also, we don't HAVE to change schemes per season.
Each Season there will be a vote to either keep or change the scheme.
Though, for freshness and the sake of variety, limited to using the schemes more than twice in a row.
For those who want more a bit more information!
I've spoke with MonkeyIsland about an idea I've had for a while and he's decided to give it a test run!
This idea/League is entirely based on the logic that Worms Armageddon has 3 different types of gameplay:
Artillery - Schemes which focus mostly, if not entirely on a players mechanical ability with artillery weapons specifically.
Physical - Schemes which focus mostly, if not entirely on a players mechanical ability with movement utilities such as Ninja Rope / Bungee Rope / Jetpack / etc.
Strategic - Schemes which focus mostly, if not entirely on a players strategic prowess and ability to understand and outwit their opponents.
Using <-- TRL --> (https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/TRL-standings/?s=overall;e=0) as a test run.
For those of you unaware, TRL - TUS Rotated League is a League system which revolves around using a different scheme each season.
It's usually used as a sort of scheme testing playground as well as hosting Seasons for individual schemes.
What some of you may not have known, it also supports multiple schemes per Season.
For a while now, I've thought that Allround is too big to realistically support.
There are probably less than 0.0001% of players, dead or alive, who actually enjoy EVERY competitive scheme.
These days we just don't have the time or the activity to support the 13 schemes that are in allround League.
It's nice to have them there, for those who enjoy! Though I feel like we've been missing balanced competition for over 10 years.
So, thanks to the steadily growing comeback of activity via streaming on Twitch! I feel like we've got enough activity to try and make an official prize league with constant prizes every season.
It is my passion and one of my main goals in life to see Worms Armageddon at a professional level of gaming!
I'm not expecting it to turn into a proper eSport or anything, but at least have enough of a prize pool and activity that people who win even 2-3 times a year have enough to pay off bills, or build their dream PC, or go on a good vacation, or pay towards a business or school or anything they want.
Even if there's only a few hundred of us, it's worth it to me!
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And now this is why i miss karma system. That idea is awesome :D
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Yeah, I really like the idea as well. Fewer schemes than Allround, but also not limited to Allround schemes.
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Will this league use TUS schemes or your "K" variants?
BnG(a2b rules)
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/fz7B9BjdmEvVzlD3qj/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47v8n9ugh7jb48oi52oo09os114vytgg3jd6frj5ll&ep=v1_gifs_related&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Btw, before each season, I feel polls should become a thing. Polls where active players decide which scheme to use and in which format. Majority wins. For example, Boom race is one of the schemes that's went far ahead with /ldet and /sdet commands. Much faster, lot more skill needed and more enjoyable games for majority that played it.
Jetpack race, will it be infinite time, will it be 20sec per turn.. Will it be fuel run or seconds.. How many worms per player, if there'll be time trial format.. These things should be discussed on time and I think plenty of players will agree.
Nice idea for the league.
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@Sensei.
For the first Season we will be using the official TUS Elite (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-7/) & Big RR (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-154/) schemes and my Grenade Wars K (https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-5049/) variant.
The Grenade Wars K variant is the one which would be used if added to TRL or TFL anyway.
For most future Seasons there will be polls to decide the scheme and the scheme variants as well as if it will be Best of 1, Best of 3 or Best of 5 for each scheme to win.
This means that ANY scheme can be used.
Here's a few more possibilities, remember - Artillery/Physical/Strategic:
Black Hole BnG / Bungee Shopper / Elemental
Paranoia / Surf Shopper / One of Everything
Plop War / Trick Race / Kaos
Hysteria / Darts / Abnormal
Forts / Wascar / Board Game
Literally any scheme as long as it fits the right criteria to match each category of schemes!
However, since this is something that I have planned and funded alone and that MonkeyIsland has approved for me to manage alone, of course, help is appreciated! I plan to make sure that classic variants or my personal favourites are used from time to time. As TRL is just the testing ground, if it's successful the way I hope, it'll develop into it's own thing.
Which means most of the time, I won't really have a say in which scheme is picked unless it's a split vote. Though a few seasons a year will be dealers pick! Which I will genuinely base on what I want to see as well as what people actually want!
So don't worry thinking I'm going to be picking anything that people don't like, you have to keep in mind that the nature of this League is not to be selfish! It's to accept how other people want to play as well while still using and respecting authentic and traditional schemes.
On the Seasons which I pick what schemes are played, if there is actually a big backlash to this, or heavy protesting to do something else, of course I'll take that into consideration!
After all I'm doing this both because I want to see the best of the best compete, but also see it from all corners of the globe with a variety of skillsets.
I'm actually quite hopeful that the majority of players will bring some interesting suggestions, it'll be exciting to see which 3 schemes are used each Season and to see how each players improves at each scheme since you only need to focus on 1 of each type each Season.
Also, regarding a2b rules, if picked, they will probably be altered a little to be less confusing but still the same vibe.
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Will be there any special rule for the picking system?
Can we flood the home page with Elites only if it's our preferred scheme?
Nice idea !
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Will be there any special rule for the picking system?
Can we flood the home page with Elites only if it's our preferred scheme?
Nice idea !
I was going to go with
Default picking rules apply really, 1 pick each, can agree on 3rd, can do only 1 scheme, or all of those.
But, you must at the very least do 1 pick each by default, unless you agree on anything else you want.
Or you play all 3 schemes any time you play anyone, but I feel like that's too forced, which is why I'd go with the above.
Or, if anyone has a better idea?
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I think default is the best option yes.
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Good Idea.
Could ZaR Roper be Included in the future?
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Could ZaR Roper be Included in the future?
Literally any scheme as long as it fits the right criteria to match each category of schemes!
Also, depends if it's voted or not.
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Also, depends if it's voted or not.
Alright. Thanks for the answer.
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Oh...
Although I didn't specify yet, this is for Singles obviously, not Clanners!
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Nice idea
Although i can already imagine something like this happening: "hey let's play trl, but i only play super sheep so either we play this or nothing"
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Nice idea
Although i can already imagine something like this happening: "hey let's play trl, but i only play super sheep so either we play this or nothing"
I'll tell you right now, yes, that will probably happen.
It's also fine! There will usually always be other opponents you can play! Also, give this a chance to take off! It already has, surprisingly, support from even all the people who usually say my ideas suck! :D
Surely that's a good sign?
Please though, Sbaffo, when you see people only want to play 1 thing, don't complain at them, don't treat them as less of a person than you, this only makes things worse!
It's like a father trying to control his teenage daughter telling him not to date some guy, it only makes her want to date the guy more! Trust me, I've been that guy sometimes :D
If you have a problem, try and be positive, try and use the more friendly and fun side to convince them that doing the other things is also fun!
NOBODY in the history of ANYONE EVER, decided to take up something because everyone was making fun of them or calling them useless or a coward for not doing it!
Though I see plenty of people who have FOMO who see others have fun, and then they want to be part of it!
So the more you belittle others - The less they want to be part of it.
The more you support and encourage others! The more likely they will want to be part of it!
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Seems a great system. I will say again that I agree with this classification system. I liked that some alternative schemes are being considered too. So, it's not necessarily always the same old schemes that were already being played since always. I like the idea to play each game a different scheme type. This way, there is no complain about rope or ground schemes.
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Just for clarification!
The official Big RR scheme will be used, unfortunately it might not be clear to everyone that for some silly reason, that scheme still hasn't been fixed!
Currently, Big RR / Tower Race share the same scheme, even though they are 2 completely different game types and styles and should have 2 different schemes/standings pages!
Which is crazy because off the top of my head it makes Lupastic look much better at Big RR than he actually is as most of his wins are from Tower Race, not Big RR!
So, just to make it clear - NO TOWER RACE! Big RR ONLY!
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i love the idea. cant wait for the ultimate athletic triathlon of golf, wfw and wascar!
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Hmmm, reading that over, when I mentioned Lupastic it was merely because he's the main person I see actually play Tower Race, every Tower Race played in the year was him almost?
So it's not a dig at him, just using it as a statistic.
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Hmmm, reading that over, when I mentioned Lupastic it was merely because he's the main person I see actually play Tower Race, every Tower Race played in the year was him almost?
So it's not a dig at him, just using it as a statistic.
the main annoying problem with the current bigrr/tower tus scheme is that it has inf teleport ammo which is not only totally useless, but also can be annoying, since it's on f8, and can sometimes slow down your roping/and/or your last seconds of roping
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-154/
I dunno who used that warg scheme for both tower AND big rr schemes, but he had absolutely zero f@#!ing idea what he was doing because:
1) big rr doesn't need/ never needed a single teleport for big rr maps oO
2) tower race doesn't need teleports either, because it's not f*ckin 2012 anymore where you play tower race with 3-4 worms and no antisink. tele was used when you plopped your first worm, you had 2-3 more "lives" as teleporting your next worm back to the spot where you previously plopped so you could continue. tower race - with HostingBuddy for example - is obviously played with using antisink, and 1 worm, very much the same as big rr. only the maps are different.
but as Komi pointed out they are indeed different. e.g.: if big rr was separated from tower I'd have a kinda bad, approx ~60% win ratio at it =D
(https://i.ibb.co/PcRGQt3/towertus.png)
I'm a suitable example why it should be taken as a different scheme on its own, cuz most good ropers (but not cheaters) can outrope me in big rr; but since they are merged as one scheme, my tower race wins kept me on top :-* and as you asked Komi, I think I was the only one to pick tower races purposely, even for clanners. only on a few occasions I saw others playing on tower race coincidentally (they took it as big rr I guess :D )
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cuz most good ropers (but not cheaters) can outrope me in big rr;
I genuinely don't understand this from you though... I've seen you accuse some very legit players recently of cheating and/or scripting when roping!
Which is crazy because, I am literally known for being one of the fastest Ropers of all time, and of course I've been accused of cheating more times than I can count even if I had dozens of feet and hands combined...
Also, side note, it's hilarious when people who only know me for BnG accuse me of aliasing myself because they had no idea I could rope as well as BnG, it's almost like a party trick at this point :D
Though, anyone can actually see me roping on the stream live, with a mic picking up the ASMR of the keyboard being smashed, but also a key input, as well as a very high quality 4K streaming camera that shows how I actually rope/tap.
Anyway, the point of all this, which as usual probably looks like bragging but is really just proof that guys like blitzed don't cheat, is, my live roping is proof that you can actually rope that fast with 1 hand, 1 spacebar, no fingerroll.
While blitzed is one of the most consistent Ropers of all time(at least when he's sober), he is 100% absolutely not a cheater, and if he somehow turns out to be, it's pretty much the worst cheat I've ever see if that's all it can do lol.
If you could cheat in rope you would rope like Mablak, Masta, Statik, Dulek or Sir-J etc, not blitzed!
Imo blitzed is like top 1% But those guys are top 0.01% And that's a HUGE difference.
Reminds me of this quote:
“In 2013 in response to criticism over him being in a bench role throughout his career and to claims that many would beat him 1-on-1 Scalabrine stated "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me", suggesting that there is a huge difference between any (active or retired) NBA player and the majority of those outside the league. In an event organized by The Toucher and Rich Show selected volunteers had the chance to play 1-on-1 against Scalabrine (until 11 points with a margin of 2). The format was called the "Scallange" and Scalabrine played four games (one against each of the voluntary contenders). Scalabrine won every game with a combined score of 44-6. In an additional game Scalabrine played against the three hosts of the show and won 11-1.”
So yeah, think of, blitzed annihilating your average player, and then you'll see that he's closer to Mablak etc than others are to him.
but since they are merged as one scheme, my tower race wins kept me on top :-* and as you asked Komi, I think I was the only one to pick tower races purposely, even for clanners. only on a few occasions I saw others playing on tower race coincidentally (they took it as big rr I guess :D )
Yeah and it's sad to me, Tower Race is actually one of my favourite schemes, that's what I was doing live on Twitch with M3ntal when someone, I think khamski from CWT asked me to stream CWT and the rest is history lol.
We used to play them quite often, Brudi and Cheetah are the best Tower maps!
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I think big rr should be the same scheme as tower, and Lupa should be able to pick it whenever he wants, but I guess it’s a personal choice for komo for his TRL baby. Tower roperace is still a big rope race. Also - it’s just f@#!ing silly, how would you be able to differentiate a tower from a big rr? For example, SiD’s Guitower is just a typical big rr, but you rope to the top, not an evil big tower like some. Where does a big rr end and a tower begin? It would be virtually impossible to tell which maps fall into tower category and which are big rr maps. Who will determine which is which?
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I think big rr should be the same scheme as tower, and Lupa should be able to pick it whenever he wants, but I guess it’s a personal choice for komo for his TRL baby. Tower roperace is still a big rope race. Also - it’s just f@#!ing silly, how would you be able to differentiate a tower from a big rr? For example, SiD’s Guitower is just a typical big rr, but you rope to the top, not an evil big tower like some. Where does a big rr end and a tower begin? It would be virtually impossible to tell which maps fall into tower category and which are big rr maps. Who will determine which is which?
I think Big RR and Tower should be separated. Why? I think most Towers are evil, they have humor, if you fall you NEED TELEPORT, at least for funners, even with anti-sink and 1 worm. I already suggested a feature I call Save State that players go back to a saved position pressing a button. This is needed for bungee race and all other races. Anti Sink helps, but not all maps explore Anti Sink feature, and there are parts of the map that are on top and there's no access to the water, it's bad that a map maker needs to always make maps with water at the bottom to "force save state" using anti sink.
Big RR doesn't need teleport. In this case, teleport will annoy players as Lupastic stated. Removing teleport from Big RR would be a good thing. Although, I think Deadcode or other devs should really think on a solution for these weapons that annoy the gameplay. For example in the scheme settings it would be amazing to select an option to ignore a determined weapon when pressing an F-key, or only pressing shift + F-key for that weapon. This would be great specially for f12 too. It would be a scheme specific thing or maybe something that players could configure, maybe even during the game.
There are many cases of maps that are in the grey area, middle term between two gameplay styles. I think that playing BIG RR and TTRR is a huge difference in terms of gameplay. Someone good in Big RR would suffer against a TTRR player. I think unifying everything and call this RR is not ok for competitive play. The same for Tower and Big RR.
I think each league scheme should receive an official mappack with a pattern of maps, because for example, I know that is not a famous scheme and not played competitively yet, but Boom for Weapons can be very different in terms of gameplay on each map you play. There are very evil maps and there are very easy maps. There are maps that explore the use of skunk a lot, there are maps that don't use skunk. Someone good with skunk would have advantage on certain maps, people good with some crazy combos would be good on other maps. It's complicated to select which map would fit best for a league, but I think that removing evil maps would be a great thing, this to all schemes. Evil maps are challenge maps, not good gameplay maps. Evil maps might be fun to play offline, not fun to play online.
To sum up: Big RR and Tower are different schemes. They deserve a proper scheme, because they need. In my point of view, I think that Big RR could receive a more conservative scheme that will be well seen for most players, specially the old school ropers. While Tower could receive a modern scheme, with LDET or even Rubber bounciness. Because the scheme is less serious anyway. I know that it is a hardcore gameplay scheme, it is serious in this sense, but I'm saying that compared to Big RR it has way more weird parts, creative gameplay, unexpected things you need to do, and when you fall it can really make you go behind other players. Falling in Big RR is not the same thing.
EDIT: We could also separate Creative/Handmade Big RR from Program-made/predictable, symmetrical, constant Big RR map.
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I think big rr should be the same scheme as tower, and Lupa should be able to pick it whenever he wants, but I guess it’s a personal choice for komo for his TRL baby. Tower roperace is still a big rope race. Also - it’s just f@#!ing silly, how would you be able to differentiate a tower from a big rr? For example, SiD’s Guitower is just a typical big rr, but you rope to the top, not an evil big tower like some. Where does a big rr end and a tower begin? It would be virtually impossible to tell which maps fall into tower category and which are big rr maps. Who will determine which is which?
Lmfao, that's very surprising coming from you!
You see how just changing a very small part of Hysteria makes it a completely different scheme, but you can't see how Big RR and Tower Race are completely different kinds of gameplay?
LIES!
I don't believe it, you're drunk or something!
:D
They actually, when done properly, even have 2 completely different schemes.
The map designs are completely different and repeatable as well.
The way you actually rope, is different as well.
Just like TTRR and Big RR
And TTRR and Big RR are closer than Big RR and Tower Race.
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I would dare to say that some TTRR maps does not qualify as TTRR maps at all, but more closer to as a challenge and Tower.
Overall BIG RR and TTRR are very similar while Tower is not. I always thought Tower was completely different kind of beast. Aside from league, it is not as often hosted compared to normal BIG RR.
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Lmfao, that's very surprising coming from you!
You see how just changing a very small part of Hysteria makes it a completely different scheme, but you can't see how Big RR and Tower Race are completely different kinds of gameplay?
LIES!
I don't believe it, you're drunk or something!
:D
They actually, when done properly, even have 2 completely different schemes.
The map designs are completely different and repeatable as well.
The way you actually rope, is different as well.
Just like TTRR and Big RR
And TTRR and Big RR are closer than Big RR and Tower Race.
man does anybody read posts anymore, I’m saying I don’t want to make big rr/tower into 2 different allround schemes and then fox went off on some tangent that had nothing to do with my original post after quoting it.
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TheWalrus, I'm very surprised you THINK they are the same thing, they absolutely are not! It's been known for over 10-15 years!
Big RR / TTRR / Tower Race / Trick Race
All KIND of the same thing, but absolutely NOT the same thing.
Aerial / Hysteria / Panicsteria / Petrolsteria / Selecsteria, all kind of the same thing but not the same thing!
Point is, the difference between Big RR and Tower Race is FAR greater than the difference between the Hysteria/Aerial type schemes
The scheme settings are also different and have been for just as long outside of TUS.
I mean, just look at the Tower Race maps from Brudi, Cheetah and many others, it literally says Tower Race on them!
You are right though, some people don't know the difference, but it's pretty damn noticeable.
And yes, one of the fundamentals of Tower Races is that you climb them vertically, that Big RR you mentioned must either be a Big RR that's vertical, or a very very very badly designed Tower Race lol.
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You still aren’t reading, please actually read, lol
So why not make panic and hysteria different allround schemes? Why not make zar roper and roper different allround schemes? Why not have 22 schemes in allround league? You still don’t seem to be grasping what I’m saying, I never said tower rr and big rr are the same thing despite my plea for you to actually read my post. I’ll make a new paragraph just to help to clarify.
1. I don’t think big rr and tower rr are the same thing.
2. Despite the first point, I do not believe tower rr and big rr should be their own, seperate schemes in TUS allround league. We do not need to add an additional scheme to allround league.
3. That is literally all the points I made.
So you support a new Tus allround scheme for tower rr komo? If so I propose a new allround scheme called small ttrr, reserved for 100 sec small maps and pi mission impossible maps.
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You still aren’t reading, please actually read, lol
So why not make panic and hysteria different allround schemes? Why not make zar roper and roper different allround schemes? Why not have 22 schemes in allround league? You still don’t seem to be grasping what I’m saying, I never said tower rr and big rr are the same thing despite my plea for you to actually read my post. I’ll make a new paragraph just to help to clarify.
1. I don’t think big rr and tower rr are the same thing.
2. Despite the first point, I do not believe tower rr and big rr should be their own, seperate schemes in TUS allround league. We do not need to add an additional scheme to allround league.
3. That is literally all the points I made.
So you support a new Tus allround scheme for tower rr komo? If so I propose a new allround scheme called small ttrr, reserved for 100 sec small maps and pi mission impossible maps.
Well, of course we're on the same page then if we all agree they are not the same scheme... But...
Wait... Did you accidentally say the wrong thing or did someone hack your account before then?
If you don't think Big RR and Tower RR are the same thing then why did you say this?
I think big rr should be the same scheme as tower, and Lupa should be able to pick it whenever he wants, but I guess it’s a personal choice for komo for his TRL baby. Tower roperace is still a big rope race. Also - it’s just f@#!ing silly, how would you be able to differentiate a tower from a big rr? For example, SiD’s Guitower is just a typical big rr, but you rope to the top, not an evil big tower like some. Where does a big rr end and a tower begin? It would be virtually impossible to tell which maps fall into tower category and which are big rr maps. Who will determine which is which?
I'm a bit confused here...
About adding another scheme to allround, I'm not sure about that.
I'd probably be taking schemes out not adding them if we were to make changes.
Though that's why I've started this new League idea so we're all good!
If anything, I'd at least add Tower Race as it's own scheme in TFL.