Hi all!
Is there a new point system in season 27th? As I can see quite lot of points can be got for wins and not much points to lose.. (especially for highly rated clans?!)
Frist game cFc - ps, +70 to cFc, -6 to ps, eS vs l3x ttrr, +51 to eS, -24 to l3x(?) :O while cFc won 2 games vs CF, CF lost 11 points.. while cFc was winning some games vs GrW, GrW lost ~15 points per games. mm vs WKFB, average -18 points to WKFB per wins :O while CF was winning 2 games vs CKC, they won 129 points, and CKC lost 16.
Btw I'm not crying I'm just interested in the theme :D And sorry for the clans I mentioned, but I was looking for some examples fast ;D
Is it new only for me, or am I wrong (then sorry for opening this thread and close it pls)? :D
barman says:
Quote from: barman on June 25, 2012, 09:23 AM
Points are calculated in the following way:
Gain for seasonal points is a function of your seasonal points and opponent's overall points.
Gain for overall points is a function of your overall points and opponent's overall points.
At the beginning of season, everyone's seasonal points are reset to 1000. So if you play against someone who has 1500 overall points, you get a lot of points at the start of the season, even if your overall rating is something like 2000. On the other side, if your opponent wins, you will not lose too many seasonal points (but he/she will gain a whole lot).
I think this is made to promote activity, as you normally end up gaining points even in the case of 1-1.
It's not new, been like that ever since I joined tus.
Everyone is muted now or what?
It wasn't always like this though, MI will back me up on that, I can't remember when it was changed, but it was within the last 12 months I am pretty certain of that...
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/announcements/new-plan-for-leagues-started/
Although it is still not documented in the Rules.
Of course.
This is how it's calculated.
When you win a game, the seasonal points you win are calculated by your actual season points in the schemes and the opponent overall points in the schemes.
So when the season starts over : you have 1000 points only, if you win against a good overall team, 1000 points vs 2000 points... You win around 70 points.If you lose, you had 1000 points and u lose vs 2000 points, so u lose only -8..
Hope you got me ;p
Ye I got you and I know this ofc.
But then why got cFc 70 points for winning a ttrr vs ps and ps lost 8 points? (First game of this season)
So ps had +1000 points like cFc? Where can I find these numbers btw? (that how many points has a clan in each schemes?)
edit.: oh or it was season 26th game? :o (but seems like counted as season 27th game)
Because look.
At each new season every team start at 0 (=1000 in tus). So you have 1000 points on each schemes. IF you play wxw against cfc, the analyser will see this : You have 1000, cfc has around 2000 (their overall wxw points) which means they are a looooot better so if u win u'll get a lot of points. If you lose, you won't lose a lot because they were a looooooot better.
You can find members by going on a clan league page, you'll hahve the seasoal points and overall points.
Example cfc : https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/clans-stats/cFc/?s=27
Just before the graph you can see each schemes, seasonal points and overall points. You can change the season also.
QuoteAt the beginning of season, everyone's seasonal points are reset to 1000.
Incredibly flawed. Seasons reset, player's ability doesn't.
The quantity of point gain and loss should be
ALWAYS calculated over the overall even if it's counting for a particular seasons playoff.
Just because I play Mablak on day 1 doesn't mean I have to lose less points that whoever plays him on day 2 on any particular season (even if that would be the case either way with overall calculations for seasonal points)
Hope this makes sense because at the moment this makes it really unfair. Say CKC play 20 clanners the first week (wins most of them) and CF is not so active they play none. Now CKC is going to play CF, overall standings tell us that these are two of the best clans and that the outcome of the match is very unpredictable. Why then should CKC have much more to lose than CF?
Not to mention how if people really wanted to be lame they can abuse this system. For instance, everyone should avoid the best players on the first few weeks because the risk reward is much more favorable to them the first days. Wait for them to get their rank up and then play them, you're not going to lose much for losing and you might hit the jackpot and win.
(correct me if I'm wrong with the system)
ropa, there's no reason ckc should avoid cf in your example. ckc still has tons to gain since CF still has high overall rating, and the only reason CF loses little is because their season has only just started and CKC has a strong overall rating --> they haven't earned anything yet, so their seasonal performance is low and takes smaller hits vs strong clans.
everyone has to earn their season rating, and playing strong clans is generally encouraged, especially early in the season. (this had been discouraged in previous system, so this is seen as a big improvement).
guys it's early in the season and no one is even close to nearing the minimum games for playoff spots. once that comes closer, you'll notice each of those clans losing way more compared to early. In the end, everyone still needs to earn their seasonal performance. It's up to you how you chose to get there.
That's an other problem ropa, I was thinking about that too sometimes, but I don't wanted to mention that, coz maybe only CF is the clan which hasn't had any complaint against us.. and in this season as I know, they couldn't play at the first half of the season, because of exams, etc.. but it's true that they could get lot of points, coz they started from 0 when the other clans were with +2000 points.. but I don't say that it's the fault of CF, it's rather a little fault in the actual system.
Flori, now I can understand, thx ;D (so coz of overall points ^^)
[OFF]
I'm sure there were threads about point system, but every serious thread starts with some normal posts and if you don't follow the thread for a day, then there will be 8-10 posts which are about 1,5 site on a 1920x1080 resolution monitor and only few people will read them and a lot of people (like me) won't follow the thread anymore.
[/OFF]
Quote from: franz on June 25, 2012, 11:47 AM
ropa, there's no reason ckc should avoid cf in your example. ckc still has tons to gain since CF still has high overall rating, and the only reason CF loses little is because their season has only just started and CKC has a strong overall rating --> they haven't earned anything yet, so their seasonal performance is low and takes smaller hits vs strong clans.
everyone has to earn their season rating, and playing strong clans is generally encouraged, especially early in the season. (this had been discouraged in previous system, so this is seen as a big improvement).
guys it's early in the season and no one is even close to nearing the minimum games for playoff spots. once that comes closer, you'll notice each of those clans losing way more compared to early. In the end, everyone still needs to earn their seasonal performance. It's up to you how you chose to get there.
I don't understand the reasoning behind this. And I don't mean the maths, I mean why is it that way? You guys need to go back and start from the basics. The variation of point gain and loss is only there to solve a problem: the ladders were not accurate to skill and performance. Whilst this is an improvement it still has a bunch of loopholes. Major f@#! ups CAN happen. This is extremely inaccurate the moment a high overall ranked player takes a break and comes back on the day 20 of the season. Assuming that guy coming back has similar level to the top 8 that season, that guy is going to have a really easy start.
So I was completely wrong, but now reading you franz I realize that if you are a high overall player, it is a good idea to not play the first few days, because you want your seasonal rating as low as possible to minimize losses, and that can be played with. I know it might not be a problem, in practice, but in theory, it seems to me, and theory can become practice without any of us intervening.
What I would do is find a way to "average" the two (season and overall points) and get a number that indicates the amount of gain loss for your SEASON RATING, obviously, MUCH MORE importance should be given to overall, because in the end, the points represent how hard it was for A to beat B (or how easy), and like I said, player skill doesn't reset, unless people take a long break, in which case they can reset it themselves.
By the way, to sum the answer of my question: at the start of the season there will be always such a high wins and little loses, because the system compares your starting 1000 points to the overall points of your opponent in the scheme you choosed, and the overall points are usually higher than the starting points of the season.
I hope I'm right now and then thank you guys! ;D
I never understood how points work lol
Other player seasonal points are nothing related to your gain or loss of points. So if you come at days 20 of the season its same than on day 1.
Yes Tomi thats right
QuoteSo I was completely wrong, but now reading you franz I realize that if you are a high overall player, it is a good idea to not play the first few days, because you want your seasonal rating as low as possible to minimize losses, and that can be played with. I know it might not be a problem, in practice, but in theory, it seems to me, and theory can become practice without any of us intervening.
it changes nothing, if you have a high overall or low overall rank. You'll win the same amount of points being low or high overall against the same player. However it wont be the same for ur opponent
ropa system was the way you said for over 20 seasons. This one is working much better than previous.
In the previous system overall of winner got to be calculated with overall of loser. As it turned out, Random00 with high winning ratio couldn't come on top in seasonal list. Because of his high overall he earned 5-15 pts for every match and lose like 50-70. Ultimately when people look at seasons standings, they saw he is very low:
#15 88 77 11 87.5% +34 +34/-3 32nd 1226
As you see for 87.5% winning ratio on 88 games, he is 32nd in the list. So as HHC suggest we turned it into seasonal of winner vs overall of loser. So Random00's seasonal matches with overall of opponent and earns him more points for season but for overall points, his overall gets matched with overall of opponent. In short, he may earn 40 pts for season, but 10 pts overall.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on June 25, 2012, 12:08 PM
ropa system was the way you said for over 20 seasons. This one is working much better than previous.
In the previous system overall of winner got to be calculated with overall of loser. As it turned out, Random00 with high winning ratio couldn't come on top in seasonal list. Because of his high overall he earned 5-15 pts for every match and lose like 50-70. Ultimately when people look at seasons standings, they saw he is very low:
#15 88 77 11 87.5% +34 +34/-3 32nd 1226
As you see for 87.5% winning ratio on 88 games, he is 32nd in the list. So as HHC suggest we turned it into seasonal of winner vs overall of loser. So Random00's seasonal matches with overall of opponent and earns him more points for season but for overall points, his overall gets matched with overall of opponent. In short, he may earn 40 pts for season, but 10 pts overall.
I think I understand now. But it gets a bit tricky when top clans play each other, specially if one has been more active than the other in a particular season. But I guess in order to see the whole picture we have to analyze the data and since that seems to be pointing in the right direction I don't see the problem. I guess as more seasons are played we'll be able to conclude if no strange happenings can occur.
This system is good, coz if a new clan appears at the start of a season with the lvl of top 4 clans, they'll win as much points as every team and lose a few too. Their opponents, if they lose they'll lose more seasonal and overall points.