The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Leagues => Leagues General => Topic started by: DumbBongChow on February 29, 2012, 03:56 AM
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Tus's shopper scheme is hardly professional and balanced as it got bunch of random weapons that doesn't really support the scheme well as a whole such as the Flamethrower. I can kind of see why not many people does not play this scheme for the league. Fifteen second Hot seat time is very awkward as well as this scheme is hardly strategic. Having non-afr weapons restrict free roping which is largely the reason why many people love shopper to begin with, meaning Hosting Buddy's shopper scheme is also awkward in number of ways as well.
I'm not really expecting this shopper scheme to be changed at this point partly because people are very accustomed to this flawed shopper system by now, but I'm just trying to inform how flawed the tus Shopper scheme is. I really do respect MonkeyIsland for all the work he's been putting into in his site, but I just really believe he and his moderator should be more aware of obvious problems. As far as I know about shopper scheme, the current flawed scheme belongs far more suitably on the free league than classic league.
IGNORE THIS PART TO THOSE WHO DOESN'T KNOW ABOUT TRIPLE SHOPPER SCHEME
Btw, It's rather weird to see MI criticizing about something that is not broken for my Triple Shopper scheme which is having 3 crate limit when there are clearly much more obvious problematic aspect on regular Tus shopper. Sure raising crate limit can make Triple Shopper bit more dynamic, but it can definitely disrupt balance of game, potentially making game more one sided due to huge liability of missing just one crate especially more to losing player. (I still don't get why MI thinks it's better to punish people for not getting all the crates especially when fun of Triple Shopper should be more about weapon weapon afr attacks, not meticulously getting crates which makes me further question MI competence in some areas.)
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yep yep
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no offence but this is by far the most unprofessional scheme change request i have ever read.
you just say: something sux>>>>>> heres my much better alternative
------you dont explain with a single word what you dont like on the current shopper scheme!
(you name 1 weapon and talk about its not supporting the scheme. i would like to hear it in detail which weapons for what reasons dont fit)
------you dont explain with a single word how these problem can be solved with your scheme
(afaik its a rubberworm scheme. dunno if we should replace a classic scheme with some multiple crates rubberworm stuff. i think something like that belongs to free league. your scheme is also played with random placements, right? cant believe people would enjoy getting f@#!ing piled and abused in first turn)
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Shopper sheme need some changes too !
Getting fire punch, dragon ball or few bats in a row is f@#!ing annoying especially when ur opponent get some sheeps, birds or flamethrowers.
Am not crying and i am not giving u any ideas which will fix it so dont blame me.
Propably someone said it earlier >>>> we should to make some board or place for NEW schemes and for new proposals, with voting option at start................ kurwa we need it !
ps. why u posted it in complains Oo?
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Shopper sheme need some changes too !
Getting fire punch, dragon ball or few bats in a row is f@#!ing annoying especially when ur opponent get some sheeps, birds or flamethrowers.
Am not crying and i am not giving u any ideas which will fix it so dont blame me.
Propably someone said it earlier >>>> we should to make some board or place for NEW schemes and for new proposals, with voting option at start................ kurwa we need it !
ps. why u posted it in complains Oo?
I 100% agree.
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i played a scheme created by Professor especially for a CWC's cup..ibelieve it to be perfect for us
@Profe..
when you see this topic, show this scheme please :)
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Lol. Dude, that's the poorest attempt at constructive criticism I've ever seen, sorry.
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I like ANO's WxW scheme a lot. https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-628/
Both players get an identical set of weapons. I think this scheme should be used for shopper as well with some minor tweaks.
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I like ANO's WxW scheme a lot. https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-628/
Both players get an identical set of weapons. I think this scheme should be used for shopper as well with some minor tweaks.
this wouldnt be shopper anymore lol
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this wouldnt be shopper anymore lol
f@#! "wxw shopper" , i want play "wxw".
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guys, try it the Advanced Battle League Shopper Scheme:
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-488/
I did this one. Its kinda same as the current, i removed the FirePunch, Uzi, Ballsfire, Flame (\o/) and i did a little adjust in the the cr8 ratio.
Enjoy it ae.
i played a scheme created by Professor especially for a CWC's cup..ibelieve it to be perfect for us
@Profe..
when you see this topic, show this scheme please :)
Yeh ty in advanced Scorpus :D
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Haha, you say don't complain too much about luck (yes, I try that hard, but I'm very ambitious!) but YOU opened this Forumtopic :P
To this topic .. I just can quote my message:
https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-102248/#msg109006
And to the weapons which should be changed: Like others said, it sux to have a difference from about -30 hp (like firepunch) to -200 hp (flamer).
It would be a much better scheme to balance it more. I always prefer skill, I won't and don't want to play Lotto and hope to win by luck.
For funners everything is ok, there I have superweapons in my funscheme to make it more varied and funny.
But for serious games ... it should show whos better and not who has more luck.
To make the -hp differenz lower helps to remove the luck-problems a bit.
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flamethrowers:
if you hide that dumb you get raped with 200 by a flamethrower, you deserve it ;D.
firepunches and bats:
just play on a map which supports all weapons of the scheme, so what about some plops. you can also place your worms smart so you have the chance to create some piles with these weapons.
maybe this scheme could be really optimized dunno (like turning power from cluster and flamethrower, also both weapons are quite easy to defend) but the nice thing on shopper is the variety of different weapons you need to handle. so i dont want any of them deleted. in fact people shold really stop complaining that much about luck, i havent seen any replay yet where someone just loses because of luck. you will always find some ways what you could have done better.
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i played a scheme created by Professor especially for a CWC's cup..ibelieve it to be perfect for us
@Profe..
when you see this topic, show this scheme please :)
I would post about it too, the scheme is really good.
People should try it!
guys, try it the Advanced Battle League Shopper Scheme:
https://www.tus-wa.com/schemes/scheme-488/
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Ok. I've talked with Dennis in snooper to clear any misconception regarding this topic.
As for Peja.... he have made just exact same mistake as what Avirex did at forum topic, "Karma destiny at your hand", making judgment my comment without actually fully reading and comprehending my comment.
[Peja: The most unprofessional scheme change request?]
I don't know what in right mind made you make that comment when you didn't even read it half right.
[Peja: You don't explain with a single word what you dont like on the current shopper scheme?]
Oh I've explained it alright, and as a short summary:
1. Unusual high hot seat delay for scheme that is not strategic. (C'mon Peja, this isn't Intermediate, Pro, or Dabble and Fidget. Do I have to be any more descriptive?)
2. Non-afr weapons disrupts gameplay of shopper scheme.
Yea I was little vague on that, but I did mentioned the core argument which already gives enough reason to not put non-afr weapon, stating that it restricts free roping. Just be aware of that non-afr weapons prevents worms effectively retreating after weapon usage. After all the experiment people had in their tus shopper games, I was expecting people to know that at least some of non-afr weapons don't work well. What people have to realized is that the current shopper is like a gambling game where getting certain crate like Baseball bat is far too advantageous in certain situation or polar opposite depending on map or where the enemy worm hides. Same goes with Fire Punch and Dragon Ball, and these two weapons are useless almost all the time. Petrol bomb effectiveness is remarkably varied by the situation as well. Since Shopper maps are so varied in terms of worms hides, structure, and etc., it would be hard to pick a right map for this already flawed scheme. Worse, many good shopper maps that are good without non-afr weapons would rendered useless for this scheme, restricting map choice.
[READ THIS #2 PART EVERYONE]
Peja: (afaik its a rubberworm scheme. dunno if we should replace a classic scheme with some multiple crates rubberworm stuff. i think something like that belongs to free league. your scheme is also played with random placements, right? cant believe people would enjoy getting f@#!ing piled and abused in first turn)
Ok... Would you mind telling me when did I actually state that this shopper scheme should be replaced with my Triple Shopper scheme? I'm sure I did not give any sign to it, and in fact, my Triple Shopper comment was posted for sake of informing that MonkeyIsland have given criticism over something that is not broken to begin. Yes, it's true that Triple Shopper poses problems in a fair, competitive match which I have made mistake on my Triple Shopper Cup early on, but manual placement easily solves that problem which is the setting that I wanted people to play with in later part of my cup. (Not sure, but I remember people still wanted to play random placement despite warnings I gave it them.)
Rok
If Rok is referring to my first post in this topic, maybe he should state reason why it's the poorest constructive criticism to back up with his opinion if he wants to be at least half reasonable?
My actual main purpose of creating this topic was to inform moderator and admin of this site, especially to Monkey Island that they shouldn't leave out such obvious flaws like this shopper scheme before people get actually get accustomed to obvious problems. I got plenty of more things to argue about such as wxw classic league scheme, cup rule structure, and etc., and I don't plan on making forum topic with actual scheme change request with polls. It would be nice to see this shopper scheme changed, but that all depends on how much people in this community wants that.
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Hmm, now we have 2 forumtopics about this ... I just posted a long answer under that shopper game, so pls look here: https://www.tus-wa.com/leagues/game-102248/msg109103/?topicseen#new ;D
Anyway thank you for all this, DBC (DumbBongChow), you are a detailed person and this is special, espeacially if this effort is used to fight for more fairness.
And to Peja: To talk with Peja about Rope-Games is like talking with a virgin kid about sex experience which they never had :D
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(http://s3.amazonaws.com/kym-assets/photos/images/original/000/094/357/Yall-postin-in-a-troll-thread.jpg?1295567777)
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ShoppRa ftw !
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you should download my scheme, it doesnt included firepunch and dragon ball, clusters are powered down to 2, petrol has a chance of 1 cr8, longbow at 15 is added, minigun is added and axe.
Bring back cows, hhg and ss imo.
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Hey People. Official TUs shoppa scheme needs upgrade. Remove clusters, uzi etc. add more better weaps like a HHG, mad cows etc. In every shopper i got (and others) many shit weaps. No fun. Need upgrade dudes. Enjoy
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Hey People. Official TUs shoppa scheme needs upgrade. Remove clusters, uzi etc. add more better weaps like a HHG, mad cows etc. In every shopper i got (and others) many shit weaps. No fun. Need upgrade dudes. Enjoy
loool ?
clusters are really good :P
for me it's ok :P
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Cluster Bomb is a rather interesting case. I think the game would work better with Cluster Bomb if we start the shopper game with 1 to inf free bazooka with same shopper rules. This idea would solve problem of bad cluster grenade luck if all the enemy worms are decently hidden, and you only got cluster bombs. (We all know that could happend.) Missing crate isn't as liable as before if we have bazooka at start for better or worse, depending on personal taste.
On the another hand, people far prefer to have infinite bazooka setting before they start out the game generally when people host shopper game via Hosting Buddy.
Anyways, I prefer to not have cluster bomb due to its huge dependence on game situation and map. It complicates the game a bit in not really a good way. (Kind of explained in my previous post in this topic.)
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clusters are ok, if u have not the experience to not hide in too long tight places it is ur own fault if the opponent is skilled enough to make u -75 hp. A perfect knock (worm in worm) at tight isn't always easy and takes time, so cluster is ok because it improves skill and tactic.
By far the best and very important thing is to add a weapon which you have from beginning of the game. I don't like zooka much, it depends too much on wind luck if u can make good - and you cant even use zook often in tight maps to make good attacks.
I would prefer to add one or two mines. Then u have a standardweap to avoid bl weapons. To drop the mine correct is a skill, too, so the skill of the game would be improved very much.
Firepunch has to be removed or powered up, that for sure. Non weap is more bad and useless in the shopper and wxw scheme.
For people who think only to the first step: Yes, you can plop or pile or push the opponent worm with it, but the problem is, that you can't hide after using it and that that pushes and plops are possible with all other real shopperweapons, too!
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all ok if nade inv and zook (or only nade). if u have dragon or fire punch and nothing others u can use nade better.
Meaby deleted flame. Too much dmg. Not balance with others. Sometimes happends 5 (or more) flames on game.
Iam dont want HHG, SS with shopper. Too much dmg. starts later in August complaining even worse, that one had some holy hand grenades and that
About cluster. Cluster its cool , and if u good use u can get good dmg
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all ok if nade inv and zook (or only nade). if u have dragon or fire punch and nothing others u can use nade better.
Meaby deleted flame. Too much dmg. Not balance with others. Sometimes happends 5 (or more) flames on game.
Iam dont want HHG, SS with shopper. Too much dmg. starts later in August complaining even worse, that one had some holy hand grenades and that
About cluster. Cluster its cool , and if u good use u can get good dmg
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/112/480/OpoQQ.jpg)