I don't think TUS ratings work well. Leaders of last seasons are losers. Flori gets 0 points for his wins, he has no chence for being first again anymore. But not only him. Have you ever thought about it MI? I think it's an important thing. Could reason about it, and about how worked other good leagues in the past (for example cbc or cl2k? But I can say nothing about it, because I don't know those times well, but I believe there are oldschoolers who may help)? There will be time that noobs are the leaders because they win 1 game against pro, getting 80 points and lose 2 for their loses. Anyway it happens even those days but in little extent yet. What do you think about it? ??? Only sagacious answers, I would like it helps, don't want idiots in this topic...
ok, Here's this subject for the third time. :)
Atm the PO qualifications is like this :
Top 8 people (Overall, All seasons together) that has played 30 games in the current season goes to the playoffs.
About Flori you mentioned, He is in the overall top 8 people. So he only needs to play his 30 games and he is in the PO.
So it doesn't matter if he is receiving minimum points. (Consider this too : He is an elite TTRR player in TUS and he beat an absolute beginner player)
pr suggested about tunning it like:
Top 8 players in the current season + 2-3 previous seasons stats which has played 30 games in the current season. Its discussable.
pr's idead are often a bit complicated, but not all that bad. :)
@ Maciej: this system is basically the SAME as in XTC and as in all other leagus that existed before. It's ELO ranking system (I recommend some wikipedia), and if it's good for FIDE, it'll do for worms too.
The only difference is the amount of points given for beating an equaly ranked (that doesn't mean equaly SKILLED) player - 40 pts here, 15 in XTC. So you really shouldn't moan. The only downside of it is that good players that start to play late, can reach the top spots a lot easier (that kinda rewards the skill, if u think about it).
Monkey, Maciej was talking about the league stats, not the playoffs :P PO system is good enough in my opinion.
And yes, league system is good too I think, maybe the difference could be shortened, for example, 2000 rank player would get 30 points instead of 20 against an 1000 rank player (I just said an example, I don't know it exactly (even tho the league works with my equation(lol))).
Anyway, drink lotta beer.
all works fine: chelsea will stop noobbashing, flori maybe starts playing all schemes instead of az01 ttrrs
But after each season general rating of each player = 1000, doesn't it? And if your rating in some scheme = 1200, you have easier way to getting points then player which rating for this scheme = 1800. In XTC there is if any player finished season with rating 800 (instead of 500 - basicaly rating for each new player), he starts new season with rating 800 too! I don't know is it the best way, just example. And I don't really know, what do you mean about Flori? Sorry, I'm new user TUS's forum. :-[
Quote from: Maciej on June 15, 2009, 09:56 PM
But after each season general rating of each player = 1000, doesn't it? And if your rating in some scheme = 1200, you have easier way to getting points then player which rating for this scheme = 1800. In XTC there is if any player finished season with rating 800 (instead of 500 - basicaly rating for each new player), he starts new season with rating 800 too! I don't know is it the best way, just example. And I don't really know, what do you mean about Flori? Sorry, I'm new user TUS's forum. :-[
well, u start with 1000 in new season but your scheme ratings does not reset. OVERALL rating is taken into account when counting points per game, not current rating.
But isn't it harder for getting points for player who has rating 1800 in some kind scheme, then player which rating is 1200, and them overall rating = 1000? I think it's not fair. So best way is losing all games in one season, to get lots of points in next?
What is the point of that? You get back those points which you lost in the previous season.
With this system, you get the real ratings of players, if someone is better in a scheme, he shouldn't get more points. If my ratings got reset in each season, I could easily noobbash every Brazilian and newbie in TTRR for 40 points, would that be fair? No!
I get 5-10 points for that, because it is obvious that I win!
This is like gambling, bwin! A team that has more chance to win gets lower odds!
I agree with you Ray, but all of your rating are over 1800..? And there are coming new members like last registered player who is Ryan? Do you think you beat him easly because his rating is beginner? As I said, in xtc you were getting really few points if your rating was high, but you had at start more then basic rating. And I don't know there is one fair way, but if I should choose, I think xtc's idea was better then here one, but maybe you will find another better?
Maceij TUS rating system has been changing a lot. All because lot of opinions and a lot of "not-being-fair".
First you gotta know, Which should we care the most? Entering the PO at the end of the season? Or simply the stats is more important?
Since no one complain about the PO system, I'll just go for the stats.
It would be so dumb that we reset stats every season. We had it before and it made no sense. Imagine you work for your Elite rank in a season, You get a very good rank at it and you are proud that you are a "Hero" Elite player, Then after the season ends, bam! You are "Absolute Beginner". You may want to start again in that season, But how many seasons can you repeat that?
So the best solution is to have your rank lifetime.
TUS cares about your overall rank.
You are looking at the season #6 ranks and you are seeing Flori is down in the list. If you checkout the overall rank (Change time machine to overall), Then you will see the true rank of all players.
So they are in their own places in the list, And they can enter PO easily too.
If a new comer comes to the league he has chance to earn much points, And I think it is a good thing, Cause it helps him find his/her true position soon.
Ah, so I understand completly nothing now... So PO get players, who are highest in the overall rating!? ...if they only play 30 games in season, and nvm they lose 30 of them, but if they are high in overall rating, they get PO anyway!? LOL, that's good idea! ;D And nah, I don't want scheme ratings reset after each season, that's stupid, true. :) So for me it works well xD But you could change points against absolute beginner and elite (and following for each rank), because 80 - 0 is not good enough even for me...
And btw, on which place must be some player in overall rating to get PO at the end?
You still don't get it. Season standings are based on the points collected in that season. Points are calculated from overall scheme ratings (for example 1800) and then added/subtracted to/from the season score (which start at 1000). So you're wrong when you think losing 30 games would get you in PO just because your at the top in overall standings.
How to get points when your rating is getting high? Simply play with people that have similar rating as you.
Get it? No? 1000 vs 1000 = 40 points for a win.
2000 vs 1000 = 1 point for win.
3000 vs 3000 = 40 points for win.
10^6 vs 10^6 = STILL 40 pioints for win! (good, eh? :))
Plus if a high ranked player loses 30/30 games he will lose his high position in the overall stats. ;)
So I still can't understand how for example Flori would get the PO.
Flori is the second in overall stats, he has to play 30 games and he is in Playoffs.
All said being true.
Quote from: Maciej on June 16, 2009, 09:44 AM
And btw, on which place must be some player in overall rating to get PO at the end?
PO qualification: Overall top 8 players which have played at least 30 games in the current season.
If you lose 30 games in the season AND STILL you are in the overall top 8 players you are in the PO.
This may seem a bit weird but think about it like this :
If you are in top 8 and you lose, you will lose many points. You must be so high that losing lot of points (30 games) still keeps you in the top 8.
This system is working fine and good atm and it is responding to our needs However maybe this can be tuned in the future like this :
Overall top 8 players which have played at least 30 games in the current season AND have 70% (or any other number) winning percentage in the current season.
Nice idea Monkey.
Right.
[jk]
i'll miss PO then. f@#!ers XD let it be 49.4353462%
[/jk]
good idea
I think highlighting on stats page 8 people who are currently qualified for PO would prevent from asking such questions.
(since flori is qualified for PO with 11th position and apparently not everyone checks the PO list).
edit: I think I might have a bit misunderstood the topic but still... ;)
Quote from: pr on June 15, 2009, 09:42 PM
all works fine: chelsea will stop noobbashing, flori maybe starts playing all schemes instead of az01 ttrrs
stfu
if u see my stats i dont play only rrs im in top 5 in bng rr roper and wxw
about elite t17 histeria id ont like theses schemes so i wont pick them.
About the po, i think it should be changed too, imagine in 10 seasons, a new player can't be in PO coz to be 8th he need to have 6000 points and its rly hard in 1 season so he will be bored and won't mlay anymore.
I think po should be the 4 1st overall and the 4 1st in the current season.
Quote from: Flori on June 18, 2009, 02:30 PMstfu
Keep these for XTC forum.
About the PO system: this does not mean the top 8 overall players play the playoffs, f4st stopped playing so he won't ever be in there, because players must reach 30 games.
Quote from: Xray99 on June 20, 2009, 09:23 AM
Quote from: Flori on June 18, 2009, 02:30 PMstfu
Keep these for XTC forum.
lol we stated about having a nice forum but not this much. XDD Its just a word.
I don't wanna turn "f@#!" to "love" you know? And please do not name any other site.
About the PO system, I think Flori is right. I'm thinking about TUS, Somewhere everybody plays and I think it will happen. What if in a season the overall top 8 players come and play?
As I said atm the league system is responding to our needs. But it will be tuned when we get a bit more activity.
4/4 and 70% winning percentage sounds good to me.
OR probably we change it to 8/8 (16 people in PO). Its a matter of more activity.
16 people in PO is not a good idea, just take a look at Season #4... Even 8 people could not play their games.
To Monkey: in Hungary, this is a very serious insult. If it isn't here, then whatever. And we can talk about other sites, can't we? ;)
Quote from: Xray99 on June 20, 2009, 11:07 AM
in Hungary, this is a very serious insult. If it isn't here, then whatever.
Like emo is a serious insult in US, huh? XD
stfu is 50/50 here. You can say to someone with love 'stfu' XDD
Quote from: Xray99 on June 20, 2009, 11:07 AM
we can talk about other sites, can't we? ;)
I don't care about other sites policy or how they treat their community. I care about ours.
I don't care how other sites are moving forward, when you name them you bring them here and that creates more flame.
Plus naming them makes our differences less. Remember TUS was bad mouthed for a long time. That's some kind of naming.
C'mon its just a word, but if u want i dont use it anymore here.
About POs,
Chelsea is in POs, almost last and has -117 points in the current league. I think players like jakka fenrys or magic should be in PO instead of him for example...
Add 70% of win is a good idea i think.
Quote from: MonkeyIsland on June 20, 2009, 12:09 PM
Like emo is a serious insult in US, huh? XD
ive never see any1 get too upset over being called emo over here :P most emos are already crying b4 u even say anything
i like the 70% win percentage idea it filters out people making the playoffs just cus they can play 200 games in a few weeks
Quote from: WookA on June 20, 2009, 04:49 PM
ive never see any1 get too upset over being called emo over here :P most emos are already crying b4 u even say anything
There was a guy once in dP, American. He got mad like crazy when someone called him emo. After he got calm, He said its a serious insult there. Maybe in a different state ? XD
Quote from: Flori on June 20, 2009, 04:24 PM
I think players like jakka fenrys or magic should be in PO instead of him for example...
Jakka only needs 4 games to be in PO.MagiC hasn't played the required 30 games. fenrys is a good example though :)
Chelsea gained LOTS of points in the previous seasons and he lost LOTS of points this season. No offense to him, But he is going down very fast.
With 70% winning percentage we'll get different results. For example pr, Rok, Chelsea, xxL won't be in PO.
19 days has remained of this season. As days pass we reach more realistic results. We can decide more clear a bit later and apply the decision in the new season, Plus leagues will be updated to v1.8 at the beginning of the new season.
My opinion: 4/4 is ok, but u have to put those 4 who qualify with season score higher than those 4 who are qualified from overall score. It's seasons playoffs, not overall playoffs, if u know what i mean, right? (maybe it already is so, i haven't looked at the current situation).
Another thing - imagine the situation when someone reaches both criteria for playoffs (first in a season and first overall). We need to determine by which of them that player enters the playoffs.
70%... and if guy can play only vs pros? because everyone avoids him. And he gains 50% wins vs pros?
while noob bashers gain 80% of wins pwning noobs everytime... is this good?
Jakka wanted to play vs Chelsea today.. Chelsea was asking for TUS:
TUS NE1 TUS NE1... but when Jakka pmed him he didnt reply.
Yea, this is kinda typical and sad... But see, noobbashers get less points by those games so they will never reach any good place in the overall stats --> hard to reach PO.
pr is right, i forgot to mention that. 50 % is better limit. Noobbashers will get owned in playoffs anyway :p
ahahaha np Maciej, I dont understand anything too, i just play and dont care about results and points, but LoL it sux if for example Flori win in ttrr and get.. 0 point for that!! and if he looses he lost almost 80 :o aaaaaarghhhhh, looks like pros have v hard life here, good i am not one of them xD
kin, It is ELO formula.
It will be tuned like not giving 0 points ever. But it cases like Flori it will give 1 point inseatd of 0. So not much difference.
Flori plays as he used to play and as you see he is first in the PO. So its not a very hard life.
wrong monkey. i have a very hard life ! haha ;)