The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon

Yea!

I wanna know what you are reading atm  :)
I know there are plenty wormers out there who happen to read a book once in a while (surprisingly many). Some like fiction (& fantasy), others seem more interested in non-fiction. Me, for one.

Anywho, doesn't matter, tell me what you are reading.  :)

---

I myself am reading a biography of Herman Boerhaave atm, a famous (Dutch) physician from the 1700's.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herman_Boerhaave
(http://medischcontact.artsennet.nl/upload/69d0c069-56ed-4b84-aabd-4aa5d11bd2d7_Scoop,%20bio%20Boerhaave,%20_opt%20250px.jpg)
It's 350 pages long, which is a lil' too much for the lifestory of an 'ordinary' scientist. But there's lots of info on the scientific culture of his days which is really interesting (the 'mechanical' approach to life and the human body of Descartes, the new interest for experimentation and rationalisation, as well as for the traditional view (Galenus and the four different bodily fluids)).

It's only published in Dutch though :(
Something for DarkOne?  ;D

---

I also just finished up on reading a very interesting book:
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/9783596188734.jpg)

Perhaps some of you germans have heard about it.
The authors discovered a whole collection of transcripts of conversations between german (and italian) POW's in World War Two that were secretly overheard by the British and American intelligence.

In Germany it created a little scandal because the Wehrmacht doesn't really get out of it well. The conversations show that many ordinary soldiers were compromised in the violence that took place in both the east and the west. Against enemy troops, partisans and against the jews and ordinary Russian, Polish and French citizens.

It was interesting to read how in wartime the rules of normal society didn't apply and that people judged events from a very different perspective.
As ordinary, peace-loving citizens we are appalled by the violence that happens in wartime and fail to comprehend how human beings are capable of such barbaric acts.
I can't say I have an answer now, but it was quite astonishing that these 'warcrimes' we speak of were never, or hardly ever an issue to those involved. Whenever the topic of violence was raised in the conversations it never raised an eyebrow. People getting killed was seen as 'normal' and there was hardly any empathy involved for those who suffered from the violence. With one exception: the comrades of the soldier.

It makes for incredibly weird conversations:

Pohl: "I had to drop bombs onto a train station in Posen ( Poznan ) on the second day of the war in Poland . Eight of the 16 bombs fell in the city, right in the middle of houses. I didn't like it. On the third day I didn't care, and on the fourth day I took pleasure in it. We enjoyed heading out before breakfast, chasing individual soldiers through the fields with machine guns and then leaving them there with a few bullets in their backs."

Meyer: "But it was always against soldiers?"

Pohl: "People too. We attacked convoys in the streets. I was sitting in the 'chain' (a formation of three aircraft). The plane would wiggle a little and we would bank sharply to the left, and then we'd fire away with every MG (machine gun) we had. The things you could do. Sometimes we saw horses flying around."

Meyer: "That's disgusting, with the horses...come on!"

Pohl: "I felt sorry for the horses, not at all for the people. But I felt sorry for the horses right up until the end."

This lack of empathy also shows in the way crimes against jewish people were approached. The soldiers were only interested in where it happened and whether there were any cute girls involved. And if that was the case, it was considered 'a shame'.
The act itself, of killing the jews, was never called into question. The only thing about it that met resistance was the 'messy' way in which it was done and the possibility of 'jewish revenge' after the war.

The book also mentions some other disturbing facts, like 'mass killings-tourists' that even included children; german pilots roaming the streets of English cities in search for 'human booty' and evidently 'enjoying' it a lot.
New for me was also the extreme violence that was used by the Wehrmacht and SS in Italy (against civilians) and also the common practice of (western) allied forces to shoot german prisoners on sight (the Wehrmacht soldiers were sometimes spared, but the SS troops were shot without questions asked).

The extreme violence commited in World War Two wasn't 'national socialist', as ideology hardly ever occupied the mind of troops in the field (only in the SS did it play a certain part in inciting violence), but instead the result of regular/normal warfare that became increasingly grim.
The Wehrmacht for example already commited war crimes in the Netherlands (and France) where POW's were shot or used as human shield. That has nothing to do with an 'extermination war on inferior people' as some people see world war two. It's common war practice, and the violence in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan is no different.

For more info:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/rape-murder-and-genocide-nazi-war-crimes-as-described-by-german-soldiers-a-755385.html

Can we have a books forum? XD

iam reading this thread atm, u?

Reading this now:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_MhZp2q4sPQ/UCD-bQZYDeI/AAAAAAAACY4/8H0HUeK9g3I/s1600/THE+FOUNTAINHEAD+by+Ayn+Rand.jpg)
The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand.
Great read so far, was inspired to read more Rand after reading Atlas Shrugged.  Reading Atlas Shrugged was the biggest single influential experience ive ever had since reading the Bible for the first time.  The fountainhead is similarly good so far.  I would recommend both books.

I've spent some time in Leiden for a radiation protection course, so I've read up on Boerhaave already :) Unfortunately, the Boerhaave museum was only open at times when the course was given, so I didn't have the chance to visit. Perhaps I should give it a go soon since I have some vacation days to spend before the end of the year. Usually, those books are about the person themselves and rather less about how they got to their discoveries and went on in the scientific world at the time, but it seems this one went out of his way to do it differently.
Of course, I did visit the Röntgen museum in his house of birth
I've read a book by Kip Thorne (a physicist) about the history of black holes - truly remarkable stuff and it gives you some perspective about how easy we have it now to figure things out. For example, Subramanyan Chandrasekhar found out the maximum mass of a star before it collapses on itself (after the fuel runs out, so to speak) and he had to do it with nothing but pencil and paper - and the 30 days it took him to go from India to England on a steam boat. And then he had to do it all over again, but now use the theory of relativity (back then a pretty new thing) as well. A sad state of affairs that this accomplishment wasn't publically acknowledged for a time because another brilliant physicist called Eddington couldn't bring himself to believe it.

I don't really have time to read a lot anymore, other than books for work (especially trying to understand MRI physics is taking a lot of my time). But when I can, I usually read Terry Pratchett (and before that, Douglas Adams). The stories in themselves are of course, silly, but they have/had extraordinary talents in showing how crazy we truly are in our mannerisms. Douglas Adams' S.E.P. shield is nothing short of a brilliant find. I usually steer clear of books that take themselves too seriously. I get enough serious stuff at work :) It's a nice way to escape that and just have a good laugh at ourselves.

Not a reader at all, however the latest book I've read and am currently in the process of reading again is World War Z by Max Brooks.

I just finished couple of Dan Brown's masterpieces, he's a brilliant writer.

At the moment, I am reading Lev Tolstoy's War and Peace, since I really enjoyed Les Misérables by Victor Hugo, I had to give it a try.

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_BtoEvKx6TA4/S8948YnadCI/AAAAAAAAADU/Ieb7bWsooBo/s1600/the+caves+of+steel.jpg)

A light sci-fi, a murder story.

he aquariums of pyongyang

Quote from: Ray on November 01, 2012, 07:03 AM
I just finished couple of Dan Brown's masterpieces, he's a brilliant writer.

At the moment, I am reading Lev Tolstoy's War and Peace, since I really enjoyed Les Misérables by Victor Hugo, I had to give it a try.

Dan Brown is descent, but he is a bit writer.  He does one thing, but he does it very well.  Vinci's Code was novel enough, angels and demons was a bit of a retread.  I really liked Deception Point, although not critically accepted, it fit my fancy.  His research is what makes the books come alive to me.  To tie the fiction in with chronicled history makes his readings come alive.  Leo Tolstoy is a champion among men, hes a bit of a technical read though, better the 2nd or 3rd time through. 

Quote from: DarkOne on November 01, 2012, 06:39 AM
Douglas Adams' S.E.P. shield is nothing short of a brilliant find. I usually steer clear of books that take themselves too seriously. I get enough serious stuff at work :) It's a nice way to escape that and just have a good laugh at ourselves.

Doug Adams is good, but the man is ridiculous.  I remember really liking the Hitchhikers series, but I was about 10.  Haven't read much of his writing since then.  He's an ironic but entertaining bastard.  Good to see you guys are reading something worthwhile.  I haven't encountered anything like a cow offering up the choicest cuts of itself before or since.  There is only one restaurant at the end of the galaxy, and it is fantastic.

I have found myself re-reading Michael Chrichton's books lately, he is possibly my favorite writer of all time, I miss that tall brute.  "The Andromeda Strain" is the best sci-fi book ive ever read, I wish he was still around to churn out novels like this still.

Quote from: Husk on November 01, 2012, 07:44 AM
he aquariums of pyongyang

Check it on google, is it good?

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-hDvEj4PpBVM/T_FFu-xbaNI/AAAAAAAAA18/Cu_MjayMNaU/s1600/all-hell-let-loose-cove391r.jpg)

I'm reading this one at the moment. More than 700 pages and not much spare time but managed to reach the half of it reading in the bus  :-[

(http://redditorschoice.com/img/cosmic-trigger-iii-life-death_2924_500.jpg)

i love robert anton wilson (obviously..)

My favourite book is The Once and Future King by T. H. White.

Oh and I love Roald Dahl! :)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQfpbHbwIlEi0OkJP_Fd22eycsqHDABBpKuWLVDe3gQymir4eHn)

I've finished reading "Discours sur l'origine et les fondements de l'inégalité parmi les hommes" by Jean-Jacques Rousseau a while ago, was the last real book I read. It was recommended by my best mate, he's really into education/philosophy. I can safely say it's the best book I've read so far, it really makes you think about our current society and how it turned out to be like it is today.

Elaborate dark? What is wrong with our current society/education?


I finished Boerhaave a week ago, glad it was done. A 350 page book about a scientist who never really leaves his university is quite a bit over the edge  :) Was good to read though, learned a lot about science in his days, I particularly liked reading about Linnaeus and his plants  :)

Anyway, now reading:
(http://quicksilverreads.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hhhh.jpg)

"HHhH" is about the rise and fall of Reinhard Heydrich, the monster whom even Hitler called "the man with the iron heart." As Binet puts it, Heydrich is not the protagonist of this book but its target; almost anywhere you look in the politics of the Third Reich, "and particularly among its most terrifying aspects, Heydrich is there—at the center of everything." "Himmlers Hirn heisst Heydrich," people would say: "Himmler's brain is called Heydrich." (Thus "HHhH.")

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/05/21/120521crbo_books_wood#ixzz2CxTF0zHQ

It reads like a novel, but it tries to keep to the facts... although some passages are 'envisioned' by the author, he explicitly says so everytime his mind wanders off  :)

Only thing that bugs me is his (extreme) lefty way of looking at the events. There's no sympathy for Heydrich, at all, he's portrayed as an evil genious. There's some truth in that, but it's not a very fruitful way to understand historical figures. Much the same as you don't really get anywhere when you can only see Hitler as the incarnation of the antichrist (rather than as a regular human being).

Neway, enjoying it  :)

i'm a huge fan of hunter s. thompson, and i happen to be a lucky bastard, who got his hands on a signed book of "curse of lono" (limited to 1000 books).

(http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/col1q1jniulsco.jpg)

it also contains lots of awesome drawings by ralph steadman.

...my edition might be a bit expensive, but if you like hunter s. thompson (fear and loathing in las vegas): there's also a cheap, small hardcover edition available.

here's an excerpt:

(http://img5.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/col2fg9436w85e.jpg)

Hobbit baby! Must read before the movie!

Quote from: HHC on November 22, 2012, 01:44 PM
Elaborate dark? What is wrong with our current society/education?

There's poor people, filthy rich people who just don't care, sick people, murderers, molesters, bank robbers and the list goes on... Rousseau deducts how humans went from their "natural condition" to what they are now and his way of explaining the entire process made a lot of sense to me (I was surprised actually). If you're into philosophy even just a little I'd really recommend reading it. There's gotta be a dutch version. :)

Thanks for bumping the thread philie, missed that post. :D Nice trophy btw, I love Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. I think I saw that movie like 10 times now, never gets old. xD

Quote from: philie on December 05, 2012, 01:24 AM
i'm a huge fan of hunter s. thompson, and i happen to be a lucky bastard, who got his hands on a signed book of "curse of lono" (limited to 1000 books).

(http://img3.fotos-hochladen.net/uploads/col1q1jniulsco.jpg)

it also contains lots of awesome drawings by ralph steadman.

...my edition might be a bit expensive, but if you like hunter s. thompson (fear and loathing in las vegas): there's also a cheap, small hardcover edition available.

here's an excerpt:

Oh you bastard, lol. How did you get your hands on that? Must be one of my favourite writers together with Bukowski.

Quote from: HHC on November 22, 2012, 01:44 PM
Anyway, now reading:
(http://quicksilverreads.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/hhhh.jpg)

"HHhH" is about the rise and fall of Reinhard Heydrich, the monster whom even Hitler called "the man with the iron heart." As Binet puts it, Heydrich is not the protagonist of this book but its target; almost anywhere you look in the politics of the Third Reich, "and particularly among its most terrifying aspects, Heydrich is there—at the center of everything." "Himmlers Hirn heisst Heydrich," people would say: "Himmler's brain is called Heydrich." (Thus "HHhH.")

Read more: http://www.newyorker.com/arts/critics/books/2012/05/21/120521crbo_books_wood#ixzz2CxTF0zHQ

It reads like a novel, but it tries to keep to the facts... although some passages are 'envisioned' by the author, he explicitly says so everytime his mind wanders off  :)

Only thing that bugs me is his (extreme) lefty way of looking at the events. There's no sympathy for Heydrich, at all, he's portrayed as an evil genious. There's some truth in that, but it's not a very fruitful way to understand historical figures. Much the same as you don't really get anywhere when you can only see Hitler as the incarnation of the antichrist (rather than as a regular human being).

Neway, enjoying it  :)

I could read a lot about Heydrich when I was in Prague; he was a genious, indeed, but his overconfidence dig his own grave.
That book looks really interesting HHC, I'd like to have it in my hands for a couple of days. Unfortunately, that kind of literature is really diffcult to find in Chile plus too expensive, one of the things that I miss about UK  :(, but I bought lots of books during my stay there and most of them about history ::)

Quote from: van on December 05, 2012, 03:02 AM
Oh you bastard, lol. How did you get your hands on that? Must be one of my favourite writers together with Bukowski.

i preordered it a 3/4 year before the release for 600 euros...  :o

edit: you can still get it for 800 - 1200 $ on ebay

Cool lalo  :)

I'm pretty sure this one is not too hard to find. It was BIG in France and got quite some attention here as well.

I'm near the end now and it's a pretty good book. It's definitely not perfect if you want to (quickly) read up on some factual history, there's a lot of novellish gibberish y'know :D . But if you're more into that kind of literature it's probably a lot nicer to read.
I for one can't wait to get to the end. I never knew much about Heydrich, let alone about his assassination. That keeps some of the suspense  :)

I would have finished a while ago, but I also got 2 other books to finish up on:
(http://www.mikadomartialarts.nl/image/cache/data/2662-500x500.jpg)
The original Dutch one has a less theatrical cover :D
It speaks for itself I guess. A little disappointing so far though. Fik Meijer is an awesome author on classical history, so maybe my hopes were a little high, but so far, it's not as entertaining as some of his other works. Still a good read though. And the fun stuff is still to come it seems (I'm halfway through). At the end of the book he compares the real stuff to the way gladiators are portrayed in movies, like Spartacus and Gladiator. Should be nice to read that as well :)

+

(http://historiek.net/images/stories/boeken/wij-weten-niets-van-hun-lot.jpg)
Won the award for best Dutch history book of 2012. It's a book about the Dutch people's knowledge about and thoughts towards the persecution of jews.

Komo-mode on:
I read a book about it last year, written by some lefty radical who pretty much butchered everyone involved for being 'indifferent' to outright 'cooperative'.
This study is WAY more balanced. It doesn't simply go by: 'Holland has the highest % of deported/killed jews, thus antisemite, or at least indifferent, or cowardice', but the author tries to reconstruct how people thought and felt about the occupation and the deportation and from there tries to understand why people behaved as they did (no intervention, 'sheepish' cooperation).

From diaries and other non-censored sources it quickly becomes clear that virtually all Dutch were appaled by the Nazi behaviour towards the Jews. Nevertheless, they (both non-Jewish-Dutch and Jewish-Dutch) failed to act. The reason for this is basically twofold:
1) they could not act, even if they wanted to. Any real resistance was quickly and very harshly surpressed by the occupiers. Acts of rebellion were paid back tenfold. Resistance, and particularly, armed resistance... the kind we admire so much today, had in practice almost solely very negative consequences. This is also why the government in exile in London warned civilians not to indulge in these 'foolish' acts, but to wait 'till the allied forces were near enough. In short, the people were powerless. Their intentions may have been right, but they were simply unable to make a stand. Hence, the vast majority of 'resistance' was limited to a very passive form: being extra-nice to the jews and generally being uncooperative in every way.

2) the people didn't actually know about the Holocaust as we understand it today. Stories of mass-executions were already known by late 1942 and stories of deathcamps and gas chambers followed soon after. But the information was often contradictory, sometimes correct, but also often false. The German project was purposefully misleading. The camp in Theresienstadt in the Czech Rep. for example was a 'model' camp where life was actually pretty good. From here letters reached the west stating that life was hard, but endurable. It was also in this camp that the Red Cross was invited. It was much harder, near impossible, to get any news out of the real deathcamps like Auschwitz and Sobibor.
This contradictory information led to skepticism in the West and the fate of the jews remained obscure. 'The East' stood for many things: colonization of Russian territory/hard work/hunger/executions/oppression/etc.etc. Everyone knew it was gonna suck over there, but nobody knew what really was at stake: 'merely' hard work and hunger or almost instant death in gaschambers or mass-executions. This is why most jews were not at all eager to be send there, but they still went.

For the Dutch civilians, the information was equally misleading. They knew the jews were hit hard by the nazi's, but they failed to see it as a special project, as an extermination campaign pur-sang. Rather, they saw it as just another expression of the German tyrannical rule that was aimed at the whole of the Dutch people, rather than just to one special group. Deportation was also not limited to jews only. POW's and political prisoners had been deported before, as well as a group of students who were sent to Germany as payback for resistance. After that came the large 'deportation' of Dutch workers who were sent to help out in the German industry. Naturally, all of this made it hard to make out the special place of the Holocaust in all these movements and oppressions.

Finally, there's the role of the English and American governments. They too were skeptic and it was only in late 1942 that they felt confident enough about the validity of the information that reached them that they send out a special message confirming the horrible faith of the Jewish populace in Europe. After that, however, they remained silent, almost to the very end of the war. The main reason for this is that they didn't want to entice the nazi's and to prevent the war from being explained in terms of supporters of jews -vs- enemies of jews. Thus, they could not single out the jews as sole, or at least, most important victims. For a unified homefront they needed to propagate the idea of a war between the nazi's and the entire free world.
Doesn't take away the fact though that more could have been done behind the screens, both in Europe and abroad. But yeah, it's not fair to say people knew what the Holocaust really was, or that they could have taken serious steps to prevent it from happening and certainly not that they chose not to act, out of indifference or even antisemitism.

---

The book doesn't present any real new insights to me, but it's nice to see that a book like this won the most prestigious prize in the field as it is certainly not the kind of stuff some people like to hear.
Cause yeah, the myth of Dutch collaboration with the deportation of jews has been a good beating stick of radical lefties whenever the topic of immigration pops up.
Don't think this book will fix that, as it's not in any top10 lists yet and the myth is very perseverant. But yeah, it's a nice start to see this book being valued by at least some people.

@dark: i'll put it on my to-do list.
@philie: woa, that's some serious shit!  :D

Sword of Truth, this book inspired me hard to be who i am nowadays

The only books I own are about Star Trek.

anubis now i really love you  ;D

Quote from: Peja on December 05, 2012, 08:01 PM
anubis now i really love you  ;D

Avirex need to know that :D

Quote from: TheWalrus on November 01, 2012, 03:31 AM
Reading this now:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_MhZp2q4sPQ/UCD-bQZYDeI/AAAAAAAACY4/8H0HUeK9g3I/s1600/THE+FOUNTAINHEAD+by+Ayn+Rand.jpg)
The Fountainhead by Ayn Rand.
Great read so far, was inspired to read more Rand after reading Atlas Shrugged.  Reading Atlas Shrugged was the biggest single influential experience ive ever had since reading the Bible for the first time.  The fountainhead is similarly good so far.  I would recommend both books.

yuck, you would say that about Ayn Rand, you libertarian scum!

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 05, 2012, 08:19 PM
yuck, you would say that about Ayn Rand, you libertarian scum!

haha i was browsing the forums and I saw this thread with you as the most recent poster and I knew you'd be commenting on this.  Once you graduate college or get a real job you'll understand Ayn Rand's writings and conservative fiscal policy.  One day you will come back and praise me for showing you the way to capitalism.  Remember, Rand came from a communist background like yourself, shy. 

Quote from: lalo on December 05, 2012, 03:59 AM
That book looks really interesting HHC, I'd like to have it in my hands for a couple of days. Unfortunately, that kind of literature is really diffcult to find in Chile plus too expensive, one of the things that I miss about UK  :(, but I bought lots of books during my stay there and most of them about history ::)

Look to Joseph Goebbels if you want the reals brains behind the rise of the Nazi party, without Goebbels, there would be no Heydrich.  I ordered the book today, HHC.  I love WW2 history, i've read at least 4 or 5 books, but mostly on the conflict rather than the hierarchy of the German military leadership.  The more I read about Germany in WW2, the more I realize what a buffoon Himmler was, and what a genius Rommel was.  I guess it really wouldn't have mattered since either way they still had a lunatic megalomaniac as the supreme leader of the armed forces.

what makes you think I don't understand her writings?  Capitalism has been the source of pretty much all suffering on earth, haha... And I'm not a communist, don't use buzzwords, you greedy corporate sleazeball !

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 06, 2012, 12:58 AM
what makes you think I don't understand her writings?  Capitalism has been the source of pretty much all suffering on earth, haha... And I'm not a communist, don't use buzzwords, you greedy corporate sleazeball !

Sleazeball?  You may not be a communist, but you are a socialist.  Socialism is the preferred delivery method of mediocrity and sloth from leaders to citizens.  A veritable golden ticket to do absolutely nothing at all and be paid for it.  Greed is the heart of socialism, the incredible sense of entitlement that you and your fellow peons have for my hard earned money.  You can pry the scraps from my table from my cold dead fingers  ;D

We should open up a new thread for this lawl

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 06, 2012, 02:06 AM
We should open up a new thread for this lawl

I just wrote a pagelong message to Mablak continuing our debate on economy and the war.  I will forward it to you, maybe you can get some learning in you yet. 

EDIT: Damn, outgoing messages aren't stored for some reason.  We need an American Exceptionalism forum haha.

too bad my english isnt enough good to reply here, it would be a pain in the ass. damn

It's funny how you say when I get educated I will learn the way, yet I used to be libertarian then I took basic economics classes in high school and changed to socialist lol

inb4 my teacher was a liberal radical; my teacher was a hardcore libertarian like you

my teacher could suck on 3 penises while riding a bbc all at same time

Quote from: Husk on December 06, 2012, 10:50 AM
my teacher could suck on 3 penises while riding a bbc all at same time

WTF we had same teacher???  :o

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 06, 2012, 03:22 AM
It's funny how you say when I get educated I will learn the way, yet I used to be libertarian then I took basic economics classes in high school and changed to socialist lol

inb4 my teacher was a liberal radical; my teacher was a hardcore libertarian like you

Thats because your new teachers at kent state are liberal radicals.   ;D

Quote from: TheWalrus on December 06, 2012, 02:42 AM

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 06, 2012, 02:06 AM
We should open up a new thread for this lawl

I just wrote a pagelong message to Mablak continuing our debate on economy and the war.  I will forward it to you, maybe you can get some learning in you yet. 

EDIT: Damn, outgoing messages aren't stored for some reason.  We need an American Exceptionalism forum haha.

Well, that's to bad, I posted in the thread hoping you would reply in it.

Quote from: TheWalrus on December 06, 2012, 12:27 PM

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 06, 2012, 03:22 AM
It's funny how you say when I get educated I will learn the way, yet I used to be libertarian then I took basic economics classes in high school and changed to socialist lol

inb4 my teacher was a liberal radical; my teacher was a hardcore libertarian like you

Thats because your new teachers at kent state are liberal radicals.   ;D

I'm sorry that reality has a liberal bias  ::)

Guys guys guys! Go donkey somewhere else!  >:(



:-[

US politics are in poor shape right now. Making compromises seems to be a thing of the past, everyone seems preoccupied only with pushing through their own (party's) view.
The truth tends to be in the middle. Nobody benefits from a free market totalitarianism, nor from the complete opposite. You gotta figure out what works in practice and not in theory. Fix the excesses of the system and let the rest be.

Quote from: ropa on December 06, 2012, 01:50 PM

Quote from: TheWalrus on December 06, 2012, 02:42 AM

Quote from: ShyGuy on December 06, 2012, 02:06 AM
We should open up a new thread for this lawl

I just wrote a pagelong message to Mablak continuing our debate on economy and the war.  I will forward it to you, maybe you can get some learning in you yet. 

EDIT: Damn, outgoing messages aren't stored for some reason.  We need an American Exceptionalism forum haha.

Well, that's to bad, I posted in the thread hoping you would reply in it.

replied, ropito.  even though we are far off topic here and everywhere else. 

Quote from: HHC on December 06, 2012, 02:29 PM
US politics are in poor shape right now. Making compromises seems to be a thing of the past, everyone seems preoccupied only with pushing through their own (party's) view.

I don't have a political party, i think the current regime in america needs to be overthrown.  If anything, im Jeffersonian.  Shyguy likes to peg me as a libertarian though, so i make him a communist :)

I don't advocate for war, i believe in an isolationist foreign policy.  America needs to stop f@#!ing around with other countries, stop giving them money, and stop invading their countries.  Let the other squabbling countries destroy each other.  It's a waste of my money for my government to march off to war ever time it has its menstrual cycle.  I have a hard enough time with shyguy trying to pick my pockets with his liberal stealerism :D gwahaha

Quote from: Peja on December 05, 2012, 08:01 PM
anubis now i really love you  ;D

I am a death metal listening Sci-Fi lover (especially Star Trek TNG, DS9 and Voyager) that believes in UFOs. Good stuff eh? :D

so where is that new thread where we can continue this discussion :P

If I found the "split topic" button I'd separate the discussion from this thread. But then again I've already posted in here anyway, sooo... :P

Quote from: TheWalrus on December 06, 2012, 06:00 PMi believe in an isolationist foreign policy.

That won't work any more. The US used to do this until around 1941 if I'm correct. Something must've happened that year that changed all that. Wonder what it was.

well the monroe doctrine was already broken with the intervention in ww1.

Quote from: DarkOne on December 06, 2012, 08:40 PM

Quote from: TheWalrus on December 06, 2012, 06:00 PMi believe in an isolationist foreign policy.

That won't work any more. The US used to do this until around 1941 if I'm correct. Something must've happened that year that changed all that. Wonder what it was.

Well at least you understand the role that the United States plays in the world, we never wanted to enter that war.  Most people just moan and bitch about how the big bad US is tramping all over some poor country again.  Someone needs to play the role of peacekeeper, because a socialist country like Sweden, which couldn't defend itself from a rogue pod of walruses relies on countries like the US in case they are invaded.  (Sorry ANKA!)  I submit that the US ignores the Isreali - Palestinian tensions, lets Russia beat the living daylights out of Georgia, and let Finland capture the rest of scandanavia, ect :) 

I created a thread as to not monopolize other discussions like this:
https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/fos/wallys-school-of-politics-18525/msg149832/?topicseen#new

Quote from: darKz on December 06, 2012, 08:04 PM
If I found the "split topic" button I'd separate the discussion from this thread. But then again I've already posted in here anyway, sooo... :P

u deserve a smite... im going to smite you for every time u delete modify or split a post/topic!

Oh lol, I came here because I saw that avirex posted! Should have known it won't be about books :P /jk

Finished my book on the gladiators. Maybe a bit disappointing (too many facts), but there were some nice stories in there too.

The gladiator fights were kinda boring, certainly not like the ones in the Gladiator-movie. The best part IMO was the afternoon-program that came before the actual fights, namely the executions of PoW's and criminals (and later christians).

Most of these executions took place in the form of crucifixions or 'death by animals'. And well, since a straight forward massacre got boring after a while the organisers became more inventive and sometimes turned it into a game.

Popular for example was the re-creation of ancient myths.

Like the story of Orpheus, who charmed man and animal alike with his excellent music and who persuaded the god of the underworld, Hades, to release his lost wife Eurydice. But he made the error of looking (back) at her before she had finally left the underworld, which caused her definitive parting. So yeah Orpheus has to let her go once and for all and in sadness denounces all women, 'till he is finally devoured by some hysteric women who were attracted by his brilliant musical play.

Anyway, they staged this story in the arena, but replaced the hysteric women by a bunch of wild animals on the brink of starvation. The performance failed though, as the victim already died in the early stages of the show, where he was 'charming' the animals with his music and one of the bears had a pretty poor taste in music and got grumpy. The lead role was torn to pieces.  :-[

They also recreated the myth of Pasiphaë, wife of king Minos of Crete. The myth foretold that Minos insulted Poseidon and as a punishment Poseidon had made his wife, Pasiphaë, fall in love with a big white bull. The passion was so intense that Pasiphaë ordered Daedalus to make her a cow out of wood. She then hid inside the cow and made the bull mate with her. ??? The result: the minotaur, half man, half beast.

And yeah, according to Martialis they perfomed this myth in the arena with a female prisoner. *ouch*

Yeah, sadistic they were, those good old romans.  :-[

(edit: we dont need that nemore, we have the internet for that kind of stuff  :D :-[)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/46/Into_Thin_Air.jpg/200px-Into_Thin_Air.jpg)

My christmas present :)
(http://cdn.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/iriver_cover_story_7-540x475.jpg)

Already managed to collect 200 new titles online, need to find out how to work with this *cough* torrent *cough* thing  :D

Good way to read stuff I never intended on buying, like simple, humoristic books about all sorts of stuff.


Now reading:
(http://uitgeverijprometheus.nl/images/project/a3d93eb55f1fa0cc786b70231cbaa64dx200.jpg)

Haven't gotten any further than the intro so far, but that was really good. It's a book about the clash between liberalism (which combines individual freedom with an omnipresent centralized and national state) and the conservative, christian political movement in the 19th century (which opted for a 'social' model in which the state was counterbalanced by societal organizations like churches and labour unions, who in turn represented the individual people).
The title of the book means: 'In battle with Leviathan'. Leviathan here is the biblical monster that Hobbes uses in his famous work to describe the omnipresent and almighty state.

There's mention of the Union of Fribourg (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_de_Fribourg (french)) & the Black International, a secret organization throughout Europe pushing through the political views of the papacy. Sounds interesting  :)

Alas, not available in English.
The author did write some stuff in English about the subject, but the only thing I could find was a collection of essays on the theme:
(http://kadoc.kuleuven.be/images/publ/s29.jpg)

Finished 'Leviathan'  :)

Lots of facts, lots of details, but still, food for thought  :)

Now reading:
(http://www.bookgeeks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Screenshot.png)

i am reading "Murder on the Orient Express" now. Finished half of book. Other half will be done tomorrow. Now time to some sleep. Good night guys.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-oTMZCHbbcJ8/Ta7fh-QLeXI/AAAAAAAAGeQ/BjYzGeeA8Lo/s1600/Murder%252Bon%252Bthe%252BOrient%252BExpress.jpg)

Quote from: Drew on December 24, 2012, 12:45 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/46/Into_Thin_Air.jpg/200px-Into_Thin_Air.jpg)

great read, krakauer is amazing.  the documentary on this is great as well, not the newer one, but the late 90's one.  that storm on everest was so crazy.

Quote from: TheWalrus on February 06, 2013, 11:04 PM

Quote from: Drew on December 24, 2012, 12:45 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/46/Into_Thin_Air.jpg/200px-Into_Thin_Air.jpg)

great read, krakauer is amazing.  the documentary on this is great as well, not the newer one, but the late 90's one.  that storm on everest was so crazy.

I won that book several years ago on some math competition :D

To be ontopic, I've read lately The Hunger Games. Got it from gf because we watched the movie and I said that the book is probably better (just wanted to put it mildly :D) I don't know how's the original, but the hungarian translation was so bad.. Logical failures, inappropiate wording..
Currently I'm reading (again) An Anthropologist on Mars by Oliver Sacks. Writer is a neurologist and this book is about some of his interesting patients. Scientific and qiute exciting at the same time, really worth to read if some of you is into psychology, neurology or just medical science in general.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EvT9ee89L._SY300_.jpg)

Gonna start reading this next monday (them boring train rides). Has anyone heard of or even read it? Was a recommendation of my best friend. :)

I dont trust Dalai Lama since he predicted doomsday and failed xD

I cannot help but feel that anything written on the subject of the Dalai Lama ain't trustworthy/objective by definition.

I'm reading a biography of this dude atm:
(http://www.osl-stavast.nl/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/spoor.jpg)

He was the chief of staff of the Dutch forces in Indonesia at the time of the uprising (just after ww2).

The Book of Dede Korkut is a collection of twelve stories set in the heroic age of the Oghuz Turks, a nomadic tribe who had journeyed westwards through Central Asia from the ninth century onwards. The stories contains cultural elements from Islamic beliefs, but mostly pre-Turkish beliefs. The reason why i am reading is we will have a quiz about this book. Nice book it is.

(http://www.altinkitaplar.com.tr/images/kitap/dede_korkut.jpeg)

Quote from: darKz on February 20, 2013, 06:23 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51EvT9ee89L._SY300_.jpg)

Gonna start reading this next monday (them boring train rides). Has anyone heard of or even read it? Was a recommendation of my best friend. :)

as long as you dont start defending his authoritarian Theocracy  ;D

i recommend reading this after it: 
(http://www.roter-stern.de/rs/wp-content/plugins/magic-fields/thirdparty/phpthumb/phpThumb.php?src=http://www.roter-stern.de/rs/wp-content/files_mf/1251819092colin-goldner-dalai-lama.jpg&h=500&w=257&q=95)
i dont like his style of writing and some conclusions, but the facts are true and speak for themselves.

Yesterday, I finished reading the book series "Hyperion'', today started reading ''Game of Thrones''
(http://rghost.ru/private/44141000/c5aaeb6200082668345d3a4f594426cb/image.png)

did you read that stuff, or did the cat?   :D

he just jumped on the sofa, when I did the photo :)

he's cute btw

nice cat Uzur  :-*

+1 coz cat ;D

I also like biografies. Some time ago I've seen "The Passion of the Christ" movie, but the book is better  ;D.

(http://wrzucacz.studiowizjo.pl/uploads/studiowizjo/p17kg15m9qmojh761q3a18l15dj4.jpg)

the only thing I learnt in bible is that for a man it's disgrace to have a long hair

Hehe, sounds funny indeed, but Paul is refereing to transsexuals in that fragment. 100% sure about that 8).

Back from the library, got:
(http://www.ssew.nl/files/andere-waarheid.jpg)
My favourite author on WW1. In 'The other truth' he examines the role of the various great powers in the outbreak of the first world war. The writer is known to be very critical of the allied camp and this book is supposed to leave little doubt about the very dubious, if not, outright agressive role of the Russian and French in bringing about WW1.
Can't wait to dig into it  :)

And also got a small collection of writings by Plato.

I read the ABC, one red book, one green.

Seriously, i dont like to read art literature, usually it's some technical books about IT and scientific books\Article. And very seldom ;SSS
But in spite of this i read few russian books, one example(maybe someone know):
Crime and Punishment - Dostoevsky.

Spoiler! View

(http://static.ozone.ru/multimedia/books_covers/1003661835.jpg)

lel

Reading a dutch book on Columbine  :) (author: Tim Krabbé; very unfortunately, not translated into English or any other language  :()

It focuses almost entirely on Eric & Dylan and gives a nice overview of the years leading to the massacre with diary fragments and eye witness accounts.
Starting with Eric's obsession for Doom, weapons and massmurder scenario's and Dylan's whiny depressed tone about platonic love and alienation, the decisive point in their friendship comes when they get arrested for stealing some equipment out of a van. That's when they get to know each other better and find out that they share phantasies of going on a killing spree.

The sad thing is that even though their friendship was deep and they had complete trust in each other, they kept silent about some of their true feelings that could have prevented the thing from happening. For Eric the Columbine killings started as just another 'Doom-scenario', as a phantasy of going on a killing spree vs human zombies. While on the other hand Dylan had been dealing with suicidal thoughts in which the killing of other people was kind of a morbid ritual that he and his love would perform to free themselves of this earth.

It was in this fantasy that they found each other. Eric wanted massmurder and accepted that it would end with his own death, while Dylan wanted suicide foremost and accepted massmurder as a way of getting there. What Eric didn't know though was that Dylan saw the 'project' as a personal endeavour in which he and some other girl (his love) would participate and not Eric. It's only later, after their arrest, that he gets drawn into Eric's version and even at that point he doesn't care too much for it. Out in the open he shouts what Eric wants to hear, how bad he wants to kill people and all that, but in reality he cares little for it and just wants Eric's undivided attention.
Eric on the other hand worships Dylan like a God and mentions him as his best friend. He looks up to him and borrows much that Dylan thinks and writes about.

The thing is, just before the shootings, Eric starts to have doubts and sends out signals to the world that he's up to no good and kinda wants out on the whole deal. You get the feeling that his Doom-fantasy was just that: a fantasy, and that now that the date is coming near for their project it gets too real for him and he starts to have doubts, and remorse.
Dylan on the other hand is more enthusiastic than ever before. He's counting the days till it can finally begin, while Eric complains that the time goes so fast. For Dylan his suicide is most important, while his massmurder obsession is in many ways a show he performs when Eric is there. Without Dylan's performed enthusiasm it isn't likely Eric would have pulled through with it. While on the other hand, without Eric's masterplan, it isn't likely Dylan would have pulled through with his suicide, certainly not in the way of massmurder.

It's because of their friendship, their responsibilities to each other that in the end they feel that there is no turning back. Dylan is keen to die, but only kills people in Columbine when Eric is near, and when he does he does so in the most cruel fashion. Eric on the other hand isn't keen to die, but shows up to a project he planned for a long time. He kills the most, but in a pretty methodical fashion, like he's just doing his job (as a Marine, which he intended to become).
It's kinda likely the two of them could have made many more victims if they wanted to, but it seems that near the end neither of them felt a real urge anymore.

This vision on the events is kinda unique because Eric has always been portrayed as a psychopath and Dylan as his depressed follower. In reality it may just be that Eric was the most caring of them and actually intended to cancel the shooting, while it was Dylan's presumed enthusiasm that pushed it through in the end. In any case, it was a project long planned for and maybe the very foundation of their mutual friendship. It was not easy to cancel it once it had been conceived. The only way out was getting caught and Eric almost made that happen on some occassions. Dylan on the other hand never wanted out, even though he had a different vision of what his ending should be like.

Very interesting case anyhow and one of which not many sources are in any way reliable.
One of the best books I've ever read  :)