The Ultimate Site of Worms Armageddon
Other Things => Off Topic => Topic started by: nino on December 25, 2010, 08:08 AM
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remeber that once, there were a poll where peoples had to reply so many questions in a site with questions like, whos the best roper for u? whos the best eliter? whos a legend of worms for u? i think ropa was involved in this, someone remeber and still have the results?
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I remember, it was pretty gay.
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huahuaha thats why i want the link, to send u as a gift madafocka from hell fdp vsf xD
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remeber that once, there were a poll where peoples had to reply so many questions in a site with questions like, whos the best roper for u? whos the best eliter? whos a legend of worms for u? i think ropa was involved in this, someone remeber and still have the results?
Lol @ pretty gay.. i remember it nino, and the results are pretty easy to remember: mablak won everything
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I hope this is what you wanted nino, my christmas present for you: http://www.laene.nl/fb/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1642&highlight=award
Mablak won everything, haha it was wrong but yet almost so correct
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Heh, funny list. :)
http://www.laene.nl/fb/
They are a little late I think.
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thanks crazy, thats what i was looking for. hehe.
iam a legend huaha.
we should make another poll like this.
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COol I got 2 awards and a 3rd place xD
Never even knew about this or remember lol
Mablak didn't actually win alot, he only got 1st for about 2-3 things, best legend? wtf is best legend anyway lol
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it is like a land rover komo.
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Looks good that poll
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someone should do this again... i can't believe I got 3rd place for best nick rofl
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Yeah and you who wanted to change your nick to Sogeking :P And your 7th on best clanleader.
Edit: I can`t believe fada didnt make it on that best clanleader list, it seems weird, especially considering TdC did good on all the other awards (best/coolest clan and best website) :o ???
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I was in an obsessive One Piece phase when i changed my name... all good now though
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I didnt make the elite list! pfft. Kiros hated me 8)
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LMAO this was one of my favourite GIFs ever on FB, just noticed it on that post:
(http://i3.tinypic.com/6aplyj5.gif)
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I could start something up like this again if enough people want it
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i'd like too see it again.
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I could start something up like this again if enough people want it
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yea wormers love drama, asslick and these shits.. gay stuff u no...
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true
lol, i think that volcom was better than dibz o/
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I think revival was better then them both
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Who is revival - never heard of him, and how could someone be better than someone that literally NEVER fell or failed?
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Who is revival - never heard of him, and how could someone be better than someone that literally NEVER fell or failed?
a bit hard to belive :D
have you got any replays with him ? :-[
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Replays were not around then.
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Replays were not around then.
No wormer 'literally never fell or failed'.
This is how myths begin.
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Well my bad, Volcom fell or failed 1/2 times every 1/2 weeks lol.
I know this might sound a bit bad and some may disagree, but I don't think Volcom would be as good in todays age of Ropers, taking the maps people use in modern times into heavy consideration.
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I heard this komo guy never ever missed a single shot in bng also!
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Lies lol, you obviously ain't seen the classic GreeNies i've done xD
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I could start something up like this again if enough people want it
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yea wormers love drama, asslick and these shits.. gay stuff u no...
Has no one explained to you that it's asskissing? What you do with asses in your spare is entirely up to you, though!
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hey beer thats just a poll , not really asskissing or licking just to know what others peoples thinks about community.
if they put they poll like, "the most mama rola wormer" i `d vote on u m8 xDDD j/k calm ae.
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if they put they poll like, "the most mama rola wormer" i `d vote on u m8 xDDD j/k calm ae.
+1, beer mama rola AUEHAUEAH.
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Well my bad, Volcom fell or failed 1/2 times every 1/2 weeks lol.
I know this might sound a bit bad and some may disagree, but I don't think Volcom would be as good in todays age of Ropers, taking the maps people use in modern times into heavy consideration.
I strongly disagree Komo. Volcom has proved throughout so many years that he is one of the top ropers. You must remember that he played until the end of when XTC died, which is not that long time ago. If you only count TUS as "todays age of ropers", then he has some to prove, but I mean c`mon.. He played through wacl, wl, cl2k, fb, xtc and so on, and he was ALWAYS f@#!ing impossible to beat.. He is one of few players that has been active from start and until what I see as present time (XTC)
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Crazy, I say taking maps into heavy consideration, meaning he would more than likely lose much more games than he used to due to crate rape.
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Are we playing that much more difficult maps today then back then? I dont think so, only a small amount of players host maps that can cause great crate rape
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Are we playing that much more difficult maps today then back then? I dont think so, only a small amount of players host maps that can cause great crate rape
Damn right the maps were totally different back then lol, how long have you been playing for Crazy? If you been playing long enough you should remember, I noticed maps getting ridiculously hard around 3-4 years ago, they were fine before that, even I could go so many games without missing even one turn back then, now, even if I rope really good, i'm screwed lol.
Maps nowadays are higher, the sides are tighter, they have too many very very tight hides and zigzag tunnels, if you get a bad crate on the other side in one of these zigzag tunnels and silly hides, unless you can do pumps and pixels power spikes and scroll like anubis you will fail.
With crates like this there should be someway to add an extra 2-3 seconds to the clock.
There was that turn, in that worms video someone made, I think it was dextah, who got this incredibly hard crate and a perfect zook, but in reality, no one can rope like that every turn, alot of people can't even do it once, with luck.
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Komo, I know you like to voice your opinion, but come on.. Volcom deserves all the praise people give him. I'm one of the most competitive wormers out there, and I remember competing vs Volcom in his prime during league ropers.. and it was tough. He did all the little things right.. knocking, perfect zooka shots, keeping his composure. He did it all, and really well.
You definitely had some glory days when it came to roping, but that was mainly stylish/warmer roping (not to say that you still couldn't/can't compete well in league ropers). You didn't specialize in league roping and you don't today. The best league ropers will tell you that "today's roper maps" are not the reason people can use as an excuse for losing or even "crate rape" because it all comes down to you playing 100% and not making any mistakes. It's been discussed many (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/schemes-13/franz/) times. (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/w2rope-scheme-***please-read***/msg27947/#msg27947)
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I still think Volcom is the greatest league roper there has ever been, I just think he would lose a few more games nowadays with the maps people tend to use, due to not having enough time to get the crate rapes, and you do get ALOT of crate rape nowadays.
I did actually go through a phase where I tried hard for half a year with league roping, and I think I done very good, not as good as volcom, but close, I beat him a few times, although we didn't play much, which is a shame, does anyone have contact with him anyway?
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Crate rape is a myth. The best roper wins more then 9/10. If you watch replays, pay attention to how many oldschool ropers bitch about crates compared to other ropers. Its the new omfg SPACE! Unfortunately w:a's rules and roper scheme is flawed. There is a easy fix for people bitching about crates but no one wants to hear it.
As for maps, we were using harder maps then anyone uses today, on w2, 8 years ago at least and with only 12 second turn time and much more fd, with blocks being allowed.
Unfortunately I don't remember playing Volcom, so I can't attest to anything or have an opinion on that. But, I would love to have seen the best w:a ropers play the best w2 ropers. I know I would bet on Dizzy or Revival owning Volcom or anyone else from that era.
Different games and we had a head start on roping and its just opinions but its fun to think about ;D
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Crate rape isn't a myth lol, theres tons of proof out there if you can be bothered to look lol, thousands of replays probably alot of them on TuS where people get crate raped, might only be 1-2 turns in 1 game, and every 4-5 games, but it does happen, and it can really change the outcome of a game.
I seriously doubt the w2 maps were harder, if you can prove it, then i'll shutup and be like, ah, I got served lol, but I'd think they were as hard as WA at the most, reason I say this, is cuz you can't really make WA Roper maps, the kind I am talking about any harder without it being ridiculously beyond a joke.
I love your spirit, w2 BnG own wa BnG, w2 Rope own wa Rope, why don't you jus say w2 > WA lol xD
Even though it totally ain't true :P :D
But meh, i'm pretty papped now, gonna have a munch and hit the sack, i'll TEL you tomorrow Johnny, I was doing a Milestone TEL thing with p3ja, man what a laugh xD
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w2 maps were a lot harder in general. Not only were the maps harder, you were going a lot faster on w2. Not all, some people used easier maps. Depending on how good they were. I've played both so you will just have to take my word or not. Thats up to you. I don't have any of my w2 stuff saved or I would post some maps I used for ladders.
Well w:a maps are seriously low. All of them. There are maps that can have crates that are hard to get, but I've never played on a w:a map ever that was actually hard to rope on. Like oh f@#! I cant rope this shit I'm going to hit the ceiling.
The fact that the rules are crate before attack is what I believe makes people use easier maps. I get that. I like roper on w:a or else I wouldn't play but not having so many damn rules in roper makes for a lot more strategy.
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Maps are smaller on W2, hence 12 seconds. Also, the map can be destroyed.
You can't compare W2 and WA roping because of this. As for you playing both W2 and WA: I know some people who used to play both of them and they told me that if you're good on WA, you're better on W2.
It's all a matter of opinion.
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Hide on the top or middle. Then you can get a higher chance of an easier crate. And allowing yourself to get more time to collect and attack doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. I may not have the technical side of roping down. But i think my league style isnt too bad. Ive beaten ropers who are faster and better than me. But sometimes even the turtoise can win the race.
I think todays maps are tigher, higher, more zigzags and do increase the chance of crate rape. That is why i don't see it as cheap to hide in the middle or top when you get that health advantage. Even from the start of a match i'll take the middle hides because sometimes a crate on the outside islands in one of those zigzags can cause a miss from a good roper and i can get one up over them.
I think volcom would get the odd bad crate. But i still think he would win because chances are he would hide in positions to prevent himself from getting too raped? Also think his roping, speed, consistency, knocks and zook attacks would allow him to still hit often with hard crates. Also look a gonzo. Hes not a fast roper but can attack with amazing 3sec bounce nades down the side to get his attacks in.
IBB i think was always a great league roper. But volcom, dibz and others reached another level.
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Haha yes C23!!! Gonzo has the sickest nades in ropers 0o And yes franz you often discuss crate rape, please dont use me in your examples in all replays this time also ;P
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The best roper wins more then 9/10
/thread
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TheKrow was the best w:a roper. and Gangstir was the best w2 roper
w2 was much harder to control, im not sure if the maps were harder... maybe about the same as w:a.. but w2 was harder to control, and be consistant... took alot more skill, and timing...
and i still find it funny how franz will never admit crates determine alot of games haha whatever :D
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Haha he does for sure avi, he does.. ;P
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avi, I might consider 'crates determining games' if people actually played their best in "alot of games" as you say or "thousands of replays" as Komo says. mistakes determine games waaay more than crates ever do.
Komo defends himself by saying that "theres tons of proof out there if you can be bothered to look lol", but seriously, go look at as many roper replays as you want. Any time you think it's crate rape determining the game, I'll point out where you screwed up and didn't play your best.
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franz why are you so close minded about this?
There is nothing wrong with admitting theres a bit of luck in WA, for more or less every scheme.
I have seen so many games, roper and wxw where on the last couple turns when both teams/players are evenly matched, both playing very good, but one player has played "better" than the other, by not making as many mistakes, the better player of that game gets a very bad crate, and can't reach it in time, and then the other player takes the lead and wins within 1-2 shots.
I know for a fact alot of people know this can happen, has happened, and will more than likely happen again, it's not an everygame occurance, and yes I do know that 8-9/10 games the better player will win regardless, but sometimes, a bad crate CAN messup a game, and it's a shame if you can't admit this, we don't need you to admit it either way, because I for one have witnessed it, and I know how Ropers and WxW work and worms physics and what anyone is capable of achieving as much as you do.
People, including myself, can whine about bad crates as much as we want, but at the end of the day, the anger doesn't last long and it's all fun in the end, after all, it would be boring if there wasn't a bit of luck now and again, it's what makes things random now and again :)
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Getting crate raped sure will make you angry, but as franz said, I myself have never seen one single roper game that you do absolutely no mistakes and still lose. On the other side I've seen a lot of games which the game evens out the crate rape.
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komo, I'm not really that close minded, you should know this about me ;p like you, I am willing to argue, so try not to mix up the two.
again, you've "seen so many games", well then show me one? someone like you who likes to prove a point shouldn't have much trouble finding at least one game, right?
one thing I notice people doing is only focusing on that one bad crate at the end of the game, when really you have to view the game as a whole. sometimes the result of a match can be traced all the way back to many turns in the beginning when everything didn't quite work out. so don't automatically assume it's just a single crate's fault at the end of a game ;)
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I love the fact you are willing to argue, and you do it so level-headed :)
I don't think you are fully realising the point I am trying to make, when a game is level, both players playing equal, for example, they both miss 2 shots each, then 1 player gets a really bad crate and the following player gets an easy crate and ends up like 90hp - 20hp, are you trying to tell me this isn't really really unlucky and you don't feel crate raped? Lol.
You don't really see alot of ropers where NO mistakes are made on the kind of maps I am talking about.
As for your games, I am too lazy to look them out, considering 85+ % of my replays are all BnG it's be very hard to find roper games, let alone roper games where i've seen crate rape, however if I ever come across a game in future, and I remember, damn right i'll show you :)
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I definitely hear you and what you're saying, just realize that "both players playing equal" and "both players playing their best" are completely different things. sure, if they are both playing equally mediocre, then one bad crate can make one player ahead, but in the end, you can only blame yourself for playing mediocre in the first place. even playing "good" often doesn't cut it, you have to play your best if you want the best chance to win.
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2 players playing there best, never miss and 1 bad crate - crate rape and can cost a game.
2 players playing equal, no matter how and 1 bad crate at the end - crate rape and can cost the game.
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2 players playing there best, never miss and 1 bad crate - crate rape and can cost a game.
^ this basically never happens. nearly every single game has some form of mistake in it, and I'll believe this until you show me replays proving otherwise.
2 players playing equal, no matter how and 1 bad crate at the end - crate rape and can cost the game.
again, playing equally bad as someone is no excuse, even if 1 bad crate at the end breaks the equal balance. you only have yourself to blame for playing bad in the first place.
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If it basically never happens, then why even bother using this as your excuse against crate rape? To me you are using your own defense against yourself.
I didn't say playing equally bad, I said playing equally good, no one can never make mistakes in anything, this is called being human, I really don't agree with your defense, after playing this game for 10+ years people still make mistakes in every single scheme, so if that is the only defense you have, then I rest my case because either way, crates can still decide the outcome lol.
But, like I have already said, the better player will usually win, without a doubt, but crate rape DOES happen.
* I never said playing equally good either, I just said playing equal, although I meant in a good way, least you know this now *
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38C at beach today 8)
edit: forgot to wear my glasses 8)
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So since two people playing mistake-free almost never happens, I can't argue that mistakes determine games waaay more than crates ever do? (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/off-topic/darkone-or-someone-else-maybe/msg46683/#msg46683)
I know you didn't say equally bad, but it doesn't matter.. equally 'anything' good/bad/whatever, if it isn't your best, you can only blame yourself. (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/off-topic/darkone-or-someone-else-maybe/msg46706/#msg46706)
no one can never make mistakes in anything, this is called being human, I really don't agree with your defense, after playing this game for 10+ years people still make mistakes in every single scheme, so if that is the only defense you have, then I rest my case because either way, crates can still decide the outcome lol.
you say you don't agree with my defense, but your first comment means you misunderstood my argument. you talking about mistakes makes me think you can understand my point about mistakes determining games way more than crates.
true "no one can never make mistakes in anything, this is called being human" but there is another thing that is called being human -> not taking responsibility for your own actions. So you lost a game? It can be human nature to blame forces outside yourself (hello crate rape!), but take responsibility for your own gameplay, play your best, and make it your goal to play mistake-free (just because it almost never happens doesn't mean you can't make it a goal). cheers
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crate rape is part of ropers. Period.
Ever heard of AireFresco (cl2k days)? I've always been pretty pitiful at ropers, but AF was far worse than me.
Yet somehow, he's managed to promote to div1, even though ropers were the most popular scheme at the time and there was a 40 games limit.
So to get back on topic (what was it again? :)) Are there enough people who'd like me to start this up again?
If so, it'll most certainly have to wait a bit since I'm sick right now.
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So to get back on topic (what was it again? :)) Are there enough people who'd like me to start this up again?
No. Just close this thread and make Franz king of the world.
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lol Madden
darkone, love your one-liner, emphasized with "Period." :) it's like you ended the whole argument single handedly with awesome proof and authority :P
sorry for the derail, go ahead with the awards if you all like! cheers again
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Ok franz, you were not arguing that mistakes determine games more than crates do, you were implying there is more or less no such thing as crate rape and you have never seen a game that crate rape has determined a game.
So you have just started an entirely different debate which I will not argue with, because mistakes do determine games more than crate rape, you are right there :)
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ok, the king ill give u guys some words, and dont debate it back or argue with it, it is said by me, so just read and stfu. xD
cr8 rape doesnot really exist when dibz and mablak are playing for exemple, the only thing that will matter are the mistakes of them to determine the winner.
but for exemple me vs avirex...avirex is a bit better than me at roper (auhaua) then if i just get easy cr8 and he gets lot of hard cr8s, for sure this will matter in game, and ill have chance to win.
me vs chicken, doesnot matter anything cos we will fall and die without even colect a single cr8 cos sucky. huahuahua.
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Mablak Vs dibz, on a ridiculous map, they are only human, there are crates they can't reach.
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well dibz might be, but mablak is a robot lol
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Thank you franz! It's all to give me a false sense of certainty and authority while in reality, the uncertainty gnaws me from the inside :o (ok, exaggerated somewhat)
at any rate, nino has spoken and his word means much more than mine, so now I look like a fool :(
Though probably more likely cause he's a great roper and I'm not :)
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nino, u cant shadow.. ur f@#!in input is worth a fart in the wind! haha
lets look at it like this.... 2 worms are on the bottom left side if the left island.... worm1 has EVERY single cr8 land somewhere on the left island, most of them on top, making each and every attack fairly easy.. no need for any speed or dangerous roping....
worm 2 has every single cr8 on the far right island most of them on top.. so gettable, but deff need speed to make the attack, and consistancy....
now, worm2 has to rope more, use more speed etc, so somewhere along the way he falls...
worm1 takes his easy lil cr8 that he hardly has to rope to, and makes another attack...
franz wants to balme this game on worm2 not playing a perfect game, and falling...
i want to blame the game on the f@#!in cr8... if worm2 got all easy cr8s, he would not have fallen either... so f@#! cr8 rules! its foolish to not admit that cr8s determine games...
back on topic? sure dark1... start another awards thing... make an "asshole" section, see if i can get number 1 ;D
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D1, u know i suck in roper! dont be ironyc lol. :P buttkisses.
back to the topic, get well asap and make that poll again please :)
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wait ur a doctor... your not sposed to be sick... huaha
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avi, ive pointed out i suck in roper, but thats not enough for u right? then u come and point out i cant shadow, nice m8, now i see the friend i have , u really dunno what a person with depression can do with his own life, thanks again m8, u r really a nice friend xD
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back on topic? sure dark1... start another awards thing... make an "asshole" section, see if i can get number 1 ;D
I think others will kill you in that category.
Not knowing how good you are at ropers shows how much I know about ropers, doesn't it? :) I figured you had to earn your king title somewhere!
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avi, even with the randomness of crates, the probability of those crates happening like that is close to zero. so unless you have a replay of this :P
anyway, I've never denied that crates do affect every game in some way. here are my words back on July27 during the w2rope discussion:
because in the end the best player that game wins just about every time anyway.
I agree that it would be nice to have a roper scheme that doesn't let the game engine dictate even a single turn, so only 100% skill is involved, but what would that look like? Would it even be fun?
a roper scheme truly without luck would be one without health crates entirely. you could just go w2w every turn so that way every turn is treated equal. would this really be fun?
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/offtopic
the first step to eliminating luck in roper is to eradicate the ridiculous zook first turn rule. are you guys just begging to keep luck factors into the game? We can't control the wind.
/ontopic
yeah make this survey thing again... it will be fun
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I`ll copycat you from even further back then that time franz ;P I supporte you 100% though D1, I wanted to do these awards myself but I haven`t done anything yet, I`m a so called talker but not do`er xD Crate rape? Take a look at this game:[attachment=1]
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ShyGuy, that is seriously, honestly, a f@#!ING awesome idea...
But, let's think about the only possible con, maybe being able to have mine 1st turn gives 1st player a major advantage? Because sometimes players hide in places that are easy to reach with mine, but hard with zook...
I really like this idea, if the possibility to eradicate what I just said, is available...
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That being said, HHC played very well, and he deserved this win and his placement in this roper tournament
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Maybe we could change rules, so you are not allowed to hide on top 1st turn? And with the zook 1st turn taken out, this could work?
Anyone?
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ShyGuy, that is seriously, honestly, a f@#!ING awesome idea...
But, let's think about the only possible con, maybe being able to have mine 1st turn gives 1st player a major advantage? Because sometimes players hide in places that are easy to reach with mine, but hard with zook...
I really like this idea, if the possibility to eradicate what I just said, is available...
I think the cons of zook first turn greatly outweigh that situation. There aren't many hides that can protect you from nades, zooks, and mines, and the ones that do are extremely cheap and lame, so it is your choice to make the best decision of where to hide.
The problem now is you can place in a hide that can potentially make you exempt from being hit just because the wind (a luck factor) was a certain way. Say your opponent hides in a hide that is extremely hard to hit with high red wind and the only way to really hit him is to take some damage yourself... well, if you get that red wind (luck factor), you are screwed. You can decide to hide where your opponent is, but maybe he will get blue wind and easily hits you. That person automatically gets a starting advantage just because the wind favored him and not you. That being said, I think it is ridiculous we still play by that rule; I don't see any logical justification for it that outweighs the cons it brings. As far as I know, the zook first turn rule was introduced to w2 because they had random placings and it often prevented fd for the person going 2nd. THIS IS NOT W2, we have manual placings now, and it is time to evolve instead of sticking to foolish tradition
/endrant
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yeah, the zook first turn rule was a w2 thing.. because there was random placement... if u were on top, u did not wanna be able to get hit with nades and mines to get FD and shit...
but i think after s*natch made a patch, we edited the settings and made it no weaps first turn, not even para... that way random placement was not an issue at all....
and komo, i hate to bring up the past.. but i remember when u swore up and down you played my w2roper scheme, and i said i know you did not, and if u did prove me wrong and show me a replay... and you could not do that....
now you only prove that u never tried my scheme, by saying what an amazing and groundbreaking idea shyguyz nozook first turn thing is.. lol... that was part of the w2roping scheme buddy :D
there is no question the w:a roping scheme is flawed... but no1 wants a change, even when i tried i just got ripped apart.. mainly be people who either did not try the scheme... or do not even rope.. lol... im not saying my scheme was perfect.. but atleast it was a start in the right direction... its a shame that people did not wanna work with me to maybe make that scheme better, instead they just wan ted to protest it all together.. dont matter tho.
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Crate rape? Take a look at this game:[attachment=1]
angus missed a few full damage turns, like 0:27, 4:28, 6:10, 12:16 just to name some. his biggest weakness though was his hiding. when a hard crate came, you should still hustle and grab the crate so that you can hide back where you started, but he just slowly grabs them and hides in weaker spots. if he improved those missed turns and the hiding, he could have a great chance at winning.
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Maybe it's not the scheme, maybe "Roper" in general is flawed lol, in 13-14 years, no one has found perfect conditions for a Roper...
But avi, jus cuz I say ShyGuys idea is nice, don't mean I haven't done a zook 1st Roper before lol.
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Franz beat this thread over the head with truth. Don't know why its so hard to understand her logic.
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her lmao...
btw, a simple question, made all this thread and it might change the future of roper on WA.
THATS WHY IAM A f@#!ING LEGEND...LOL
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(http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9537/ninosig.png)
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this topic is full of win. got a link to fb awards, good debate about roper and awesome posts from the king, is there a way to add a topic to favourites?
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You guys seem to think that hard crates is the main problem. So that implies that you achieve all the turns with normal/easy ones? Which 90% of people don't, you can miss a turn even when you have an easy crate. In one turn easy crate or not there are so many parameters (like Franz pointed out) that in the end the most consistent player wins.
There are still the impossible ones (and it depends of the player) but if you try to be 100 % consistent in all the turns you will do 90% of the job ;) Just learn to play I guess :D
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I find these arguments irrelevant... whether you are 100% consistent or not doesn't matter... you guys are arguing from a false premise.
Simply put, the game engine can potentially decide that you don't get to attack. Saying this doesn't matter because if you are just consistent with other crates, you'll be ok, doesn't even apply to the controversy imo.
Franz, you say the most consistent person will win, yet, if we all started playing more consistently, than one or two bad crates would change the outcome of the game. You are saying people should be more consistent, but that would just make "crate rape" more prevalent.
Say you have two robots playing and they always hide in the bottom left inside of the island. They are programmed by deadcode to be able to rope to any crate that isn't tucked in the RIGHT island and attack. Crates have a large potential to change the game then. So, in theory, I don't find your solution very sound. Just my 2 cents worth
Crate rape? Take a look at this game:[attachment=1]
angus missed a few full damage turns, like 0:27, 4:28, 6:10, 12:16 just to name some. his biggest weakness though was his hiding. when a hard crate came, you should still hustle and grab the crate so that you can hide back where you started, but he just slowly grabs them and hides in weaker spots. if he improved those missed turns and the hiding, he could have a great chance at winning.
I just watched this game, and I find it hard to believe how you can honestly say angus would have a great chance of winning. Why bother saying he missed attacks, for example, at 0:27 when he was robbed out of about 7 or 8 turns because of the game engine? He was completely raped that game and it was out of his control. You also say he should have rushed and stuff, but that also doesn't make any sense that a player should put in all of this extra effort just because the game engine ripped him off. I don't see how you can justify the game engine stealing turns from a player.
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Shy, mistakes in ropers are very common, and they decide the game way more than crates (the replays don't lie, go look at any of them). I've never denied that crates do affect every game in some way. (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/off-topic/darkone-or-someone-else-maybe/msg46742/#msg46742) My point has always been that in the end the best player that game wins just about every time anyway. (https://www.tus-wa.com/forums/leagues-general/w2rope-scheme-***please-read***/msg27983/#msg27983)
So all arguments that the roper scheme is flawed or maps these days are flawed, or this and that are flawed... just look at any roper replay and realize that the loser's gameplay was flawed in some way, and they should blame themself the most.
I'm repeating myself so much that my posts are turning into hyperlinks to all my previous points :-X
Edit: I'll reply here to your comments edited in about that angus/HHC game. Tough crates are not an excuse to play less than your best. That isn't the mindset you should have if you really want to win because then you are just playing the victim role. This does nothing but hurt your chances, so don't just automatically give up on a turn just because there is a bad crate. Try to hustle and return to the best hide, and show your opponent that you are working hard even though a bad crate comes. Even that can impress your opponent sometimes and make them nervous. Find the positive in the negative :P
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You are trying to circumvent the unfairness of crates by saying players should play better. You aren't actually fixing the unfairness issue at all. Like I already showed, that premise is false anyway
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Shy, do you actually have any ideas about fixing the randomness of crates? Because that's really what seems to be bothering you the most.. so unless there is some great solution that no one has thought of through all these years, we have to accept that health crates drop randomly. Roper revolves around this until something changes. All my arguments accept the fact that this is how roper is.
So I say to everyone still complaining about crates.. suck it up, and play better :P or think of a solution that everyone might accept, kind of like how avi tried to with his w2rope campaign.
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Yeah, I had a solution... check the huge w2 roper threads.
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(http://www.liderchat.net/yemek-tarifleri/wp-content/uploads/beytikebap.jpg)
Shy, don't bump eat kebab!
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mmmmmmmmm yummy.
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I totally agree with Shy, he's said some stuff similar to stuff I have said, but franz, you can clearly see that it isn't just 1 or 2 people talking about crate rape, it's a pretty big amount of people who realise that crates can change the outcome of the game sometimes, you are one of the very very few people who says the thngs you have said, I really respect the way you stand by your opinion, that is impressive.
But I actually find it funny how you can sit there and tell us "just play better" don't you think that's what we've been trying to do? For how many years now lol? We ARE trying lol.
It's like when you hear in the movies in a car chase "GO FASTER GO FASTER !!!" "I CAN'T FFS THE CAR WON'T GO FASTER!!!", there is a limit to how fast we can rope, and if you expect people do try pumps and pixel kicks to get the extra speed then that's just silly, not even the best Ropers on WNET of all time can get every single crate.
Like I have said before, if 2 players never miss, and on the last 2-3 turns 1 player gets an impossible crate, and by this I do mean impossible even if they roped flawlessly and as fast as humanly possible, and then this player loses in the next 2 turns because of this crate, are you telling me this is because the player didn't play good enough?
The situation I have just gave example of, I am fully aware that this would be an extremely rare occurance, I know this has happened before, I don't have proof, but i've seen it happen a few times, and I am fully certain it will happen again at some point.
We know the better player will usually win, but all we are saying that sometimes crates can be unfair, regardless of how well you play.
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I 1000% agree with franz. I'm not sure how you debate the obvious
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How is it obvious lol, if you both want to pretend the impossible is possible, and the possible is impossible, then go ahead lol.
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I'm saying 9/10. Who cares about the minute chance of something occuring. Are you scared to go outside because you might get struck by lightning?
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write roper to game search and show an example where crates decided a game, can't u do that?
edit: what i mean is, that u don't loose a game because of crates, u loose it because u failed to hide well after a difficult cr8.
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I fail to see the chances of lightning hitting someone is more than getting a bad crate in WA lol, oh wait, you got hit by lightning because you didn't hide well enough? Or jump out the way fast enough?
Husk, I will not spend hours upon hours finding a game where this has happened, when I already know for a fact, it has and many people agree with me lol.
And it's still a major disadvantage if both players haven't missed a single turn, and then at the end you miss because of a bad crate even IF you get to a good hide.
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this happens rarely, i can't recall if i ever seen a match like that. almost all matches the player pwning himself most either by hiding badly or missing shots finds himself losing.
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Like I have said before, if 2 players never miss, and on the last 2-3 turns 1 player gets an impossible crate, and by this I do mean impossible even if they roped flawlessly and as fast as humanly possible, and then this player loses in the next 2 turns because of this crate
And in another game, at another time, the same shit will happen to the other player. It's just the way it goes. Good luck happens to both players, bad luck happens to both players.
We all like it when we've had a bad game and then the opponent gets f@#!ed by a crate or two to level it out but we hate it when we're playing well but the crates just aren't going in our favour.
I don't think it matters about specific games. There will always be tragic bad luck games for a variety of reasons. What's important is how the statistics play out over hundreds of games, thousands if you're a hardcorer.
Everything balances out in the long run and there's no need to change anything! (imo)
:<
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b2t: i just love this in the fb awards:
Best Allrounder
1. Mablak
2. Anubis
3. Mil2
4. Dibz
5. Ramb0
6. Wiz
7. fr4nk
7. Wyvern
9. Twistah
10. Benzine
10. Erod
10. FlowingWater/Franz
10. Husk
10. Jakka
10. Reg
10. ropa
any1 heard of Random00 ? XDDD
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lmfao i love reading all that stuff from fb forums! i could spend days reading all the good stuff there =P
for example, i just love this from a topic of singles playoffs:
IBB is paired with Blizzard in singles playoffs, and Blizzard can't be arsed to play his games.
IBB: "Blizzard says: "Just take the win. Fb sucks."."
Kiros: "Was this before or after he played over 400 FB games?"
this shit should be in quote database XD if not, add it XDDDDDDD
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Lol at that quote Husk.
I don't think Random was that active in FB?
I can't remember him being very active, but it's been in the last sort of 2 years or so that Random has really stuck out there in terms of people getting to know him, I think TuS has helped alot to increase his fame/popularity, I guess he's always been good like this, but TuS has a record number of players in WA (I think) and the younger generation see him now, by this I mean newer players, not kids lol, so more people see his skill, to be honest, and no disrespect but I had never even heard of Random00 until I started on TuS, and I am puzzled to why, I couldn't believe this guy was #1 by miles, and i'd never heard of him, and that's the name he's used for years and years lol.
And I actually thought, where the hell is Mablak on these standings, has this Random guy scared him off? Then I realised Mablak doesn't play TuS, well he does now, but TEL xD
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this shit should be in quote database XD if not, add it XDDDDDDD
Go for it!
http://wqdb.org/?addquote
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any1 heard of Random00 ? XDDD
I did xd
Nah seriously, I just was worse in every single scheme then I am now. I think basically everyone in this list was a better overall player then me, heh :d
and btw: I totally agree with franz and johnny. :o
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i agree with franz and johnny too... if you play perfectly, u will more then likely win...
but why should 1 played have to roper farther, roper longer, and rope more consistantly then the other roper... the luck factor is much to large in roper games, and dominate.
why do u think the elite scheme got rid of cr8s? because it added un-needed luck....
but nah, lets not make any changes to roper scheme to get rid of the luck factor.. ITS CLASSIC!
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i agree with franz and johnny too... if you play perfectly, u will more then likely win...
but why should 1 played have to roper farther, roper longer, and rope more consistantly then the other roper... the luck factor is much to large in roper games, and dominate.
why do u think the elite scheme got rid of cr8s? because it added un-needed luck....
but nah, lets not make any changes to roper scheme to get rid of the luck factor.. ITS CLASSIC!
You're being sarcastic!
Wouldn't roper be boring if every game was the same, people roping the same distances etc. It would be clinical.
And as I said on my last post, the probability evens out over time.
We've all had lucky games....and those games are unlucky for our opponent. When we have bad luck, our opponent has had good luck.
It's all a big ying and yang type thing.
Yes it's classic + I like being f@#!ed over by nasty crates. It's fun :<
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ye avi cr8s are full of luck andm mistery, today per exemple there were a cr8 on my table and i asked my secretary wtf is this, she said she didnot know, i said wtf this could be a sheep u know? she was like what??? hauhauhauha
it was a wine btw, i gor from someone who buy me some bull xD
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People who think the scheme should be changed : Komo Avi, while I'm pretty sure Nino and Husk didn't bother trying to get good at it, Shyguy I never played him at roper
People who think the scheme is fine : Me Franz Cue Random Johnny, and all the others people who didnt bother starting a topic in previous leagues ;D
Way to be biased Komo, saying there are very very few people with Franz. :D (If you answer no more than 3 lines plz)
"Mistakes in ropers are very common, and they decide the game way more than crates"
Can't agree more
And you talk about the problem if 2 consistent players play, which barelly happens actually. Everyone makes little mistakes (as I quoted). I remember the Pinguim vs Mablak matches for exemple, 2 of the most consistent ropers, and Mablak always won, guess Pinguim got crate raped everytime huh? auhauh
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There were a lot of supporters for change in the w2roper thread.
Like avi said, why should a player do this and that and blah blah blah just to compensate for a crate the game engine gave them? Why should a player miss an attack just because the game said so? That is the issue. Like I said before, franz's solution doesn't fix the issue... it is hardly even related to it. I'm trying to think of a comparison... let's try this:
The forest is on fire,
fire could kill you,
therefore, let's let the forest stay on fire for the sake of our safety.
The fire is still there, you are just circumventing your way around it, that's why I am having trouble finding your arguments logical to the issue at hand. Hell, even Komo's suggestion of making maps easier puts the fire out more than "play better" does.
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Shyguy, do you think the crate positions affect all players equally? Or pick on some players more than others?
Is it the random spawn engine that's wrong or the very idea behind random crate placement?
If you got random crates then it's the same for everyone. No one gets let off the hook.
So technically the scheme is fair....no?
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Only if both players get the same amount of evil crates. I don't find it okay to let the game engine dictate that, though.
EDIT: it is true, both players get random crate placing, but it is not true that both players will both end up with the same amount of hard and easy crates every time.
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Except this problem is not a forest on fire, but a little match on fire. Is it really an issue since in the end the best player wins 9 out 10 times? Impossible crates happen once in a while, and also there are crates impossible for a player and not for the other... It's not as easy as to say, oh an impossible crate the scheme is flawed. It sounds a bit like an excuse. There are so many parameters in a simple turn, an impossible crate once in a while is just a detail in the end if you achieve the normal ones, which most of the people struggle doing consistently
Sorry if there is some bad english xD
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EDIT: it is true, both players get random crate placing, but it is not true that both players will both end up with the same amount of hard and easy crates every time.
So what's the definition of 'easy' and 'hard' crates? This would surely vary from player to player?
For a rope master there are fewer positions on the map that a crate could fall in which the crate is 'out of reach'. For a beginner there are many positions that would be classed as a 'hard' crate.
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what are these parameters in a single turn you are talking about? getting the crate, knocking, hiding, choosing the best weapon to attack with, using retreat time... what else is there? all of those things I just listed are affected by the kind of crate you get. If you get an easy crate, you can knock for a bit and maybe get some fd, etc... An impossible crate doesn't allow you to do any of those things except hide back where you were.
EDIT: it is true, both players get random crate placing, but it is not true that both players will both end up with the same amount of hard and easy crates every time.
So what's the definition of 'easy' and 'hard' crates? This would surely vary from player to player?
For a rope master there are fewer positions on the map that a crate could fall in which the crate is 'out of reach'. For a beginner there are many positions that would be classed as a 'hard' crate.
I'm really only talking about crates that get tucked into the opposite island. I think it is ridiculous that we are forced to fetch those and lose a turn. Even if I was playing extremely consistent and I got one of those crates I would think it is dumb that I would have to throw away a turn just cos I got a bad placing.
For easy, I'm really only talking about crates that get placed right under your nose so you have 11-12 seconds to knock his worm around or whatever.
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= roping efficiently, you miss a climb and you're f@#!ed, hard crate or not. There's the flow of the game too, who you are facing... You really want me to list everything? auha
And you didnt answer, you're sure it's that big of an issue since you agreed that the best player wins anyway? ;)
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Yeah, because it is a luck factor that can be fixed, just like random barrels and mines in elite
*puts flame shield up*
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Oh I see. I understand your position now.
Shit happens...in all schemes. That's all I can say.
But if there are a growing number of people who require change then it must be in the form of either special maps which have a limiter on the maximum crate difficulty or a change of scheme altogether which seems a bit radical.
Can't add anymore than that! :<
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We already proposed w2roper which keeps the parameters you guys speak of intact plus adding a number more. It passed the league vote but no one is playing it or agrees to play it.
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Yeah, because it is a luck factor that can be fixed, just like random barrels and mines in elite
*puts flame shield up*
random barrels/mines in elite was an easy fix because removing them didn't change the underlying gameplay.
random health drops in roper is not an easy fix because removing them takes away a fundamental part of roper gameplay. without a crate to collect, there is no point in roping around the map at all. if you leave them in the game, but remove the rule that you must collect them, you haven't completely destroyed the 'luck factor' of health crates. they can still hurt or help you.
unless there is a clear cut, great idea that everyone can agree with and rally around.. just accept the randomness of crates, rope your best, and have fun 8)
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W2roper ftw .. Duh
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People who think the scheme should be changed : Komo Avi, while I'm pretty sure Nino and Husk didn't bother trying to get good at it, Shyguy I never played him at roper
I never said the scheme should be changed, I just want people to realise the fact, and yes, it IS a fact, that crates can actually sometimes decide the outcome of a game, people usually fail, when they are forced to try harder, so the fact that a crate lands in the furthest spot possible IS the crates deciding the outcome of the game, every single crate that lands, hard or easy decides the outcome of the game, if you think about it, you might not see it the way I do though, but I hope you at least understand what I mean.
Way to be biased Komo, saying there are very very few people with Franz. :D (If you answer no more than 3 lines plz)
Yeah, sorry, stupid of me to say this, but at the time, it was really only franz saying it, now he has more support I see so I take that statement back, sorry franz, you ain't a norman :P
"Mistakes in ropers are very common, and they decide the game way more than crates"
Can't agree more
Like I already said, it is the crates that fall that make us decide how to rope, the crates force us to rope to a certain spot, in a certain way, whether you fail or play flawlessly, the crates are basically telling you where to go, so imo, the crates decide the game, you just have to be good enough to do what they say :P
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u just proved the point of Einstein komo. Everything is relative, even a single cr8 on WA.